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Planned changes for the action rewards system


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One more time.

This is topic related to Simulator Battles

We will not discuss here Realistic Battles. If you want to discuss RB/AB, please use specific section to do it.

We will not discuss here some made up theories "Red Skies cut income in half" etc. 

Any more offtopic will be considered as rule breaking behaviour.

 

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We have received a lot of your feedback about the new rewards system used in the aircraft SB battles and after study of them coupled with statistics we plan now to make certain changes on it.

 

At the same time, we consider it necessary to comment on some complaints that are irrelevant to this rewarding system. First of all it concerns the comparison of the number of actions in a battle for all time with the final reward for useful actions. For example you can make 10 kills during a 1.5 hour game session and receive only 17% of the maximum reward. This is possible because these 10 kills were made during one calculated 15 minute interval and gave 100% reward for it while during the other 5 of the 15 minute intervals, there were no active actions so they gave nothing. At the same time, a game session with 6 frags in 90 minutes might prove to be significantly more profitable if a kill was made in each 15 minute period.

 

As for the essence of the planned changes: the reward for a battle in Silver Lions minus achievements and orders now consists of two main parts: reward for actions and reward for activity which may be supplemented by a bonus for victory. Activity time reward is strictly limited (max amount) and exists primarily to reward not so successful battles with a low number of active actions that bring a large reward (for example kills). It will be applied in all game modes in addition to the normal action rewards. In aircraft SB battles, skilled players try to use vehicles as long as possible and strict limitation of rewards for activity time significantly reduces the final reward for the session, so in the new reward system we decided to abandon it completely. Instead we will increase the reward for useful actions by an amount equivalent to the activity time reward with the hard constraint removed.

 

This will increase the reward for useful actions by 31-80% (average - 47% for all vehicles and 37% for vehicles of rank V or above). However it will also cause a recalculation of the repair cost which will increase on average by 14% for all vehicles and by 5% for vehicles of rank V or above. You can see the tablesheet of changes by clicking on the link below.

 

OPEN THE TABLESHEET IN THE NEW TAB

 

We are also considering a variant with reducing the bonus for winning in a mission with a proportional increase in reward for defeat, because at the moment it may force some players to leave the battle early if their chances of winning the battle drastically decrease.

 

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So there are no plans for RB, only SB?

 

Rewards for RB have drastically been reduced across the board even with Premium Account+Premium Vehicle combos, and this has been noticed by a large amount of players, will this be addressed too?

Edited by SPANISH_AVENGER
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11 minutes ago, SPANISH_AVENGER said:

So there are no plans for RB, only SB?

 

Rewards for RB have drastically been reduced across the board and this has been noticed by lots of players, will this be addressed too?

 

Rewards for RB were not reduced, the method of calculating activity was changed as explained in detail in the Economy update post. Changes to reward modifiers for vehicles were also published in full but again, these were not "drastically reduced across the board".

 

We continue to monitor feedback, however these changes are spesifically relating to Simulator Battles. 

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5 minutes ago, Smin1080p said:

Rewards for RB were not reduced, the method of calculating activity was changed as explained in detail in the Economy update post. 

 

The issue is, apparently the new method of calculating activity deems most players in a battle to have an insufficient amount of activity to deserve to get their full rewards. Only the few top players in a match get to get the full rewards, while everyone else, to larger or smaller degrees, get reduced rewards compared to what they would have got with the same performance prior to the new system.

 

I understand that this new method is suppossed to punish the bottom players and one-death leavers, but it currently is punishing most of the players, most of the matches.

 

5 minutes ago, Smin1080p said:

We continue to monitor feedback, however these changes are spesifically relating to Simulator Battles. 

 

Thank you for your acclaration, I will be looking forward to news related to RB!

Edited by SPANISH_AVENGER
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2 minutes ago, SPANISH_AVENGER said:

The issue is, apparently the new method of calculating activity deems most players in a battle to have an insufficient activity to deserve to get their full rewards. Only the few top players in a match get to get the full rewards, while everyone else, to larger or smaller degrees, get reduced rewards compared to what they would have got with the same performance prior to the new system.

 

reducing OneDeathLeavers (in a way, it's not bad,...)

Edited by Cpt_Bel_V
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Just now, somebody_Else said:

 

Its done nothing to reduce odl

ODL will receive less and less rewards, so they will stop to ODL, and start to play the game as they should.

Sorry if it's not obvious for you,...

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4 minutes ago, somebody_Else said:

Its done nothing to reduce odl

 

Actually, most people have noticed an INCREASE in one-death leavers.

 

Once people realise that a match is no longer going to be profitable to them because of the new system, they leave. The issue has only got worse.

 

2 minutes ago, Cpt_Bel_V said:

ODL will receive less and less rewards, so they will stop to ODL, and start to play the game as they should.

Sorry if it's not obvious for you,...

 

No. What they have done, is to leave more and earlier to go and try better luck in other matches.

 

It has horribly backfired.

Edited by SPANISH_AVENGER
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Just now, Cpt_Bel_V said:

ODL will receive less and less rewards, so they will stop to ODL, and start to play the game as they should

 

Thats the intended reason. But in practice, it doesn't do that at all.

 

People who leave after one death generally don't care about the rewards.

 

Just now, SPANISH_AVENGER said:

Actually, most people have noticed an INCREASE in one-death leavers.

 

Exactly.

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Just now, somebody_Else said:

 

Thats the intended reason. But in practice, it doesn't do that at all.

 

People who leave after one death generally don't care about the rewards.

 

 

Exactly.

100%. I'm a very fiery tempered player and i am personally guilty for occasionally one death quitting the game. Most of the time rewards would be the least of my concerns.

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3 minutes ago, somebody_Else said:

 

Thats the intended reason. But in practice, it doesn't do that at all.

 

People who leave after one death generally don't care about the rewards.

 

 

Exactly.

i understand that the results is unexpected from the objective.

but still, Gaijin is showing a bad communication : since players don't understand how reward system works, because of multiple add-ons through years.

It's nothing but simple. (in a good world, they will destroyed it and restart from Blank)

Edited by Cpt_Bel_V
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15 minutes ago, Cpt_Bel_V said:

ODL will receive less and less rewards, so they will stop to ODL, and start to play the game as they should.

Sorry if it's not obvious for you,...

yeah... but no.

a bit more reward VS a huge repair-bill. 

Guess what will win.

People, especially F2P players, will still leave after one death instead of stay and risc a bigger repair-bill. 

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I look forward to see a change regarding the SL/RP you get for win/lost battles, regardless of game mode. The rather common issue with players leaving the battles early is on of several issues that takes away a lot of the fun, to mention one example. Keep up the good work!

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an increase of RP rewards in air RB is defenitly needed, getting 5k RP at 11.0, with prem account and 4 kills + ~2,5 tons TNT (I played Su-17M2 to get MiG-23M) is a joke...(not to mention SBs RP awards), SL reward for each kill should also be increased, since even 4 kills are not enough for MiG-21bis´s repaircost of 20k+....

 

(ground RB seems to be okey-ish until BR 7.0)

Edited by WreckingAres283
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5 minutes ago, Gruminator said:

yeah... but no.

a bit more reward VS a huge repair-bill. 

Guess what will win.

People, especially F2P players, will still leave after one death instead of stay and risc a bigger repair-bill. 

i used to play F2P for the last 8 years in this game, and i've never been an ODL.

 

still, people don't understand how the game and reward works,... they see something annoying and most have decided to become ODL to boycott the system.


This last feature is to fight against ODL,... excepting that most people are now ODL, so the change had to be rude to a lof of people.

 

4 minutes ago, Runecraft said:

As i said, you clearly did something to reduce RP and SL rewards with the red skies update. be it a bug or a planned change to ingame economy.

pretending that nothing was changed aside from last weeks activity calculations is like a slap in the face.

A lot of players have noticed this and have also complained about it enough, so much so that you shouldn't blatantly ignore it and remove posts calling out the issue.


it's a recent change my boy,... check the news, it has never been hidden. (22/07/2021 - 4 days ago)

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Just a reminder guys, this topic is for feedback on today's changes to SB. We would like to hear from players here about those changes. 

 

If you want to discuss / leave feedback on the other parts of the economy changes, you can do so here in the appropriate topic: https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/530172-server-update-22072021/

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One more time.

This is topic related to Simulator Battles

We will not discuss here Realistic Battles. If you want to discuss RB/AB, please use specific section to do it.

We will not discuss here some made up theories "Red Skies cut income in half" etc. 

Any more offtopic will be considered as rule breaking behaviour.

 

Thanks.

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I think the new simulator battle mechanics should be reversed and the gains should be returned to back when sim players could routinely get many hundreds of thousands of RP and SL for a single multi-hour session (i.e. what RB could get with equivalent time played).

If you can't do this and fix sim zombering then that's your problem, not the problem of the playerbase. This new reward system exists only to make the sim bombers' life hard when previously you could have just given a hard cap on it or punished them in some other way (why they would feel the need to grind so hard is obvious of course but as has been noted this is NOT the thread for general feedback about how terrible the grind is or other things) that does not ruin sim for everyone else.

I do not even play sim and it is obvious to me these are terrible ideas that you have implemented only to make the playerbase move away to DCS or stop playing all together in some vain attempt to control sim bombing instead of addressing the core issue.

Good luck with this, I think you will need it!

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1 hour ago, somebody_Else said:

 

Thats the intended reason. But in practice, it doesn't do that at all.

 

People who leave after one death generally don't care about the rewards.

 

 

Exactly.

I’m sure a lot of Newbies   from arcade take a peep in sb, inevitably get shot down (it they master take off), and leave with the intention of returning when they are more experienced. I was one of them once. They do account for some of the ODL numbers. 

49 minutes ago, Smin1080p said:

Just a reminder guys, this topic is for feedback on today's changes to SB. We would like to hear from players here about those changes. 

 

If you want to discuss / leave feedback on the other parts of the economy changes, you can do so here in the appropriate topic: https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/530172-server-update-22072021/

I shall test tonight and report back tomorrow. Thanks for listening. 

Edited by Drogo_joystick

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23 minutes ago, Drogo_joystick said:

So if I get a shot down I should wait 15 minutes before going out again in case the same guy gets me again, so I maximise his profit?

reward for activity time and actions under the revised is calculated seperate thats what i understood so shouldnt be 15 min plus respawn in another af

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Right now, try to play British EC6, spawn into a 8.0 for around 40K SL, getting pawned by a random AI locking you from 10km away and aimhack.

 

Do you really expect your statictics repair calculator is on points ? So how's a Mig-17 around 13K to spawn and a J-4 (litterally a chinese Mig-17 copy & paste) is 55K to spawn ?

IMO, I played a very few games in EC recently, and the fact that you apply "repair cost balance" shows how devs never tested or played EC sim mode.

 

We are not your testers, we are not getting payed for this, you're making big balances which are just screwing an already weak mode.

 

You wanted to stop farmers ? the most obvious solution would have been to remove player made lobbies but,

as for years, devs can't hear that, removing some codelines they made, because adding more stuffs is what they getting payed for.

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2 hours ago, OrsonES said:

We are also considering a variant with reducing the bonus for winning in a mission with a proportional increase in reward for defeat, because at the moment it may force some players to leave the battle early if their chances of winning the battle drastically decrease.

That’s probably the most important consideration regarding EC battles of 3 hours.  In a 25-minute battle - that often only lasts 15 anyway - by the time you can see the battle is lost it’s pretty much over; an EC might have an hour or more to run, yet it’ll already be clear which side likely to win.  As the winner is usually the side with the most players, a side with a small numeric advantage soon gets ahead, at which point there really is no point in remaining on the losing side, so there’s a ‘snowball’ effect as players leave the losing side.

 

Because of this most players spend more time in victorious battles than in defeats, so average current EC earnings already include a disproportionate number of victory bonuses.

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Is there somewhere accurate description how the entire reward system works ? Or is it necessary to put it together from update notes ?

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