Rewards for useful actions in the aviation SB mode

[stryker359 36]

Just tried the EC6 test event on Afghanistan.

 

1 spawn in the Cannonberra - 3/4 of a base (a bomb missed) and one AAA kill. Landed safe and sound.

1 spawn in Sea Vixen - 1/4 of the base, 3 player kills, 1 AI kill. Landed twice, died once.

 

Netted myself a 70k SL profit after respawn costs, for the first time in a good while.

 

However...the server was chock full of Il28s and H5s spawn-camping because while the new long runways are in, the Rolands are not. I feel that by raising the reward but not fully implementing the map features in the test games, any data from the test is going to be massively skewed, and the rewards are going to go back to what they were before long.

[Mr_Pokemon26295 358]

So whats the consensus for now looking good or looking meh

[HOPPING_PONY 386]

On 15/07/2021 at 13:42, Stona said:

For example, in the La-9 fighter with a maximum reward for useful actions equal to 816 SL per minute, the total reward for a 15 minute period with an activity of 90% will be 816 * 15 * 0.9 = 11.016 SL. If you didn’t play for the 15 minutes and were shot down after 10 minutes with the same activity level, the formula will be 816 * 10 * 0.9 = 7.344 SL.

If game's economy doesn't actually reward you for playing good, what the hell the point of it being in game? Beside monetization side ofc, which should not bother us as players.
In my opinion there's no way hard cap can be good measure in such game, even if it may slightly increase the income of the average player.
Being hard-capped in economy-centric games is like both team getting even scores in ball games.

It's just looks like very poor and lazy design to me. Instead of fixing the initial problem and configuring gamemode the right way devs simply implementing hard cap, configured in the exact way they announced it half a year ago (to general discontent). 
Get ready for farmers discovering right way to do those "useful actions" regularly and keep spamming bot farms into custom lobby.

Edited July 17, 2021 by HOPPING_PONY

[TaumelScheibe 183]

Just played a roughly 2h long match in the event, we won the match.

 

14 kills, 0 deaths in German Seahawk and CL13B Mk.6, no Premium Account

2 Airbattles won

177k SL (160k with Spawncosts)

73k SL of those were earned by "Useful actions"

38k RP

16k Module RP, not even enough for a single Module on the CL13...

Active Playtime 14:13 ???

Activity 66%????????

 

That's pretty bad, especially considering that i managed to survive the whole match without a single loss, imagine you had to pay additional 50k for Respawning

 

Edit:

I almost forgot, i also killed a friendly Bot F-84F, you know the US one with the bright yellow markings.... why are the friendly Bots in US planes when you have the US on the opposite team? Thats BS

Well at least i wasn't puished for the TK according to the battle Results.

 

Edited July 15, 2021 by TaumelScheibe

[syndrome23 7,097]

Guys do not derail the topic. Ask your unrelated questions elsewhere

[esapekkis 2,659]

10 hours ago, Stona said:

 

At the moment, the average reward for all players for it is:

• in SB 85284 SL/h

 

Interesting number. I could bet quite a lot that the Average Joe of the real SB pilots doesn't actually get 85k more SL on his account every hour. Or I would like to know what kind of results this Average Joe gets every game in order to get that much money with the current economy. (I'm guessing the Average Joe also gets around 50% winrate)

 

 

I gave one try for the EC2, no premium account, using a 30% SL booster and using only premium planes (which have super high SL reward % in the current version but apparently gets much lower SL/hour on the new system)

 

Spoiler

 

With these results and the 1 death (4 spawns) I got around 80k earnings / hour.  Was this new system supposed to be lower or higher than the current one?

 

I don't personally care if super high results ends up giving lower rewards or if my own personal earnings happens to get lower. But I seriously hope that the Average Joe gets good/decent rewards after the intended eco update. Since I know they don't with the current one.

 

 

EDIT: other feedback:

- I like the change that you pay the whole repair cost instead of -50%, since it's easier to undertsand. As long as the repair costs gets adjusted accordingly. Would be much better if you could get back the SL you paid beforehand when changing plane / surviving the match.

-I like the reduction on SL penalty when you die. This helps especially the Average Joe. To be honest...personally I would not mind if it was removed altogether

Edited July 15, 2021 by esapekkis

[przybysz86 10,309]

10 minutes ago, esapekkis said:

Interesting number. I could bet quite a lot that the Average Joe of the real SB pilots doesn't actually get 85k more SL on his account every hour. Or I would like to know what kind of results this Average Joe gets every game in order to get that much money with teh current economy. (I'm guessing the Average Joe also gets around 50% winrate)

if you include farmers into the mix then your medians and averages might look like that but I also agree that normal avg non-exploitng player will not get close to that. Unless we count zombers and their earnings before the spawn cost reduction

[TimeFaker 237]

we need to reduce the bomber point gain as they increase the activity median very high and fighters cant contest that easily so fighters cant reach the same activity easily

Edited July 15, 2021 by TimeFaker

[przybysz86 10,309]

1 hour ago, TimeFaker said:

we need to reduce the bomber point gain as they increase the activity median very high and fighters cant contest that easily so fighters cant reach the same activity easily

I have a feeling that 80% median for activity is mostly zombers above 80% and fighters below.
Maybe median should be counted per plane type?

Edited July 15, 2021 by przybysz86

[ItalianHitman 1,288]

@Stona Does the new changes affect "Operations" too? or just "Enduring confrontation"? 

[ItalianHitman 1,288]

11 hours ago, Stona said:

If you didn’t play for the 15 minutes and were shot down after 10 minutes with the same activity level, the formula will be 816 * 10 * 0.9 = 7.344 SL.

This example is incorrect. it should be 816 * 10 * 0.9 * 0.8 = 5875 
The 0.8 multiplier at the end is because you didn't land (thus don't get the 20% delayed reward that is issued after landing).
 

[Kernow1346 1,847]

7 hours ago, przybysz86 said:

another question: what with activity for passive tasks?
…
Can we expect that those task will be rewarded as well?

Seems not.  Flew an EC2 earlier - 2 sorties to destroy base; completed 3 caps in total (at least 2 solo efforts;  from one cap straight into escorting bombers to target (which they all missed) and part-way back; with one other player destroyed enemy bomber formation; also helped a ground battle by bombing a couple pillboxes.  The 2 solo caps alone are 10 mins of activity.  Mission results gave 6 mins of Activity time and 50% activity, so doesn’t look like completing the objectives gives anything.

 

Entire enemy team left and game didn’t end.  No one seemed able to join once teams were full (I’d joined after a 15 mins or so).  Eventually just me left and game ended when I returned to hangar - luckily we were ahead by then, so it was a win.  For 1hr 22m I got 45k RP and 85k SL.  The RP seems more than I’d get for a similar time in Naval RB, say (though had we lost it would have been roughly similar); the SL reward is considerably less, despite the win.

 

Sorry, but the whole OP looks like a Google translate ‘fail.’  Tells me nothing that makes any sense.  The only bit that is intelligible is the La example, but without any meaningful info on what constitutes the activity multiplier it’s all rather pointless.  So, a number of SL between 0 and X will be picked for ‘reasons’ and I’ll earn that for every minute flown.

[The_Tea_Rex 801]

I'm quite confused by the wording in the original post here, but I shall assume its a translation issue. Overall these are interesting changes, I say interesting because I can't tell yet if they result in a net improvement or reduction for effort vs reward in sim mode.

 

One bit of feedback, however.

 

For the EC6 lobbies can we please have the Rolland SPAA enabled?? I was in a test game earlier and I got airfield strafed a lot. Apparently a bunch of people heard that 'sim rewards are good' in the test lobby and were simply killing anybody on the runway. Not very fun gameplay and it would skew the match results.

[Bloodlet 408]

Can we do something to make dogfighting or chasing down an enemy count as useful activity even if only a little bit? I just had a two matches where I was either chasing things down or dogfighting and it didn't count as activity or doing anything for spawn points. In one match the enemy I was dogfighting with for probably over a minute got poached by a teammate with a missile and in the other for a similar duration fight I ended up getting shot down. In both cases it felt like I absolutely wasted my time even though I was being active.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Bloodlet

[The_Tea_Rex 801]

1 hour ago, Bloodlet said:

Can we do something to make dogfighting or chasing down an enemy count as useful activity even if only a little bit? I just had a two matches where I was either chasing things down or dogfighting and it didn't count as activity or doing anything for spawn points. In one match the enemy I was dogfighting with for probably over a minute got poached by a teammate with a missile and in the other for a similar duration fight I ended up getting shot down. In both cases it felt like I absolutely wasted my time even though I was being active.

 

I agree. I know the proximity reward has been removed to combat AFK farming, but now you have the problem of multiple aircraft being in the same dogfight, but only one at the end will get any rewards. Contributing to a successful engagement should still provide some level of activity/reward.

[przybysz86 10,309]

17 hours ago, Stona said:

 

Info I got:

...

At the moment, the average reward for all players for it is:

• in AB 94500 SL/h
• in RB 81648 SL/h
• in SB 85284 SL/h

In AB reward is higher because the unit is more efficient in this mode. At the same time, it spends on repairs per hour significantly higher than in RB and SB.

 @Stona I would appreciate if you can clarify one more thing for us -does this average figure include following factors:
1. we pay for spawn and we don't get this SL back even if we survive
2. in EC4 La-9 is high BR which require grinding spawn points. this means that before we even have chance to fly La-9 we have to pay for another plane (or multiple planes since it might be hard to accumulate enough spawn points in weaker plane and many people will want to use intermediate spawn) for which we don't get refund even if we survive as well.

this means that regardless of what we do and how well we fly, La-9 earnings are not in vacuum but should be decreased for amount of at least 2 spawns.
Yes, I am aware the other plane can earn money too but if we are talking about La-9 there is no way to skip it and regardless if the 1st plane pay itself back or not, I can't skip that phase.

This also means that usually it's hard to fly La-9 for more than 1hr becuase by the time you get enough SP game is already in progress and usually won't last longer than 60mins (often less).

Let's then assume optimistic scenario that:
a. previous plane paid itself off
b. we have full 60mins in La-9

TL/DR
Does La-9 earn on avg 85k minus 17k (spawn/repair cost in new system - cost we don't get back and have to pay no matter what) aka 68k or does it earn 85k on avg after subtracting 17k aka it normally earns 102k

[Kernow1346 1,847]

A couple of points on that 45k RP I earned in an hour-and-twenty-or-so yesterday:

 

All aircraft were premium and I had a 10% booster running throughout;

 

The breakdown of RP for each aircraft was = X + 2X (premium a/c) + X (premium aircraft) + 0.1X (booster).  2x for premium time?

 

On 15/07/2021 at 13:44, Yvarov said:

So i could kill AI plane near field 1-2 times per 15 min and i will be 'uesefull'? Or circle at stratosphere droping periodicaly 50 kg bomb on same field just to maintain my usefullness? Wich actions are usefull and wich don't? Or they are equal?

Yes, this is the bit that is really important and yet is entirely lacking in the OP (despite its length).  What is ‘useful’ activity?

[[email protected] 601]

I don’t get a lot about the new system, the more you stay in battle doing stuff the more activity you get, I think that’s that.

 

The thing that I did get 100% Is that now players will get 80% of all rewards in the air and the rest only when the plane Is landed, thats a great change.

 

30% increase on rewards It’s a great change.

 

But my absolute best SL gain on a EC 7 game using the premium sabre with a premium account, Is 200k, for the full 3 hours, I really realllly can’t Imagine how a f2p player It’s supposed to play a jet like the F-4E paying 69.357 SL every time he goes down, It sounds really scary guys.

 

Of course, you said that repair prices will be changed with the new update, but I really don’t know how much are you people willing to reduce It, so It makes me worried.

[przybysz86 10,309]

6 minutes ago, Kernow1346 said:

Yes, this is the bit that is really important and yet is entirely lacking in the OP (despite its length).  What is ‘useful’ activity?

it is stated in the bigger news post for RB as well. activity is now counted based on all actions that give you score (one you see next to your name when you press TAB to see player list)
So all actions that give points are useful - at least that's how I understand it

 

what we don't know is how much points per minute on avg we need to get 100% activity but as GJ said, they aim to put median at 80% activity so I guess 1 bomb everyt 15mins won't help much

Edited July 16, 2021 by przybysz86

[przybysz86 10,309]

@Stona sorry for spam but another question: how much things like achievements, orders and wagers affect RB and AB average earning?

We don't have orders and wagers in EC and while we have achievements, many are limited to 1-2 per battle so we get them every 2-3hrs rather than every 15mis.
Also - how often players get SL in post-battle ruffle? if there is static chance to get box reward after battle then we also get that chance every 2-3hrs rather than every 15mins

There is also matter of free repairs (we don't have) and backups which (at least in AB) allow you to fly twice for price of one repair (unless I am mistaken)

If you can't give exact numbers (I understand) can you check if lack of those bonuses in SB has been taken into account when setting up rewards and repair costs.

Thanks in advance!

Edited July 16, 2021 by przybysz86

[esapekkis 2,659]

Not to mention that Battle Pass and Warbond shop give more boosters to AB/RB players.

 

Shorter games in those modes should also give more random post battle trophy boxes which can give random SL drops among other rewards. 

[TimeFaker 237]

1 hour ago, [email protected] said:

I don’t get a lot about the new system, the more you stay in battle doing stuff the more activity you get, I think that’s that.

 

The thing that I did get 100% Is that now players will get 80% of all rewards in the air and the rest only when the plane Is landed, thats a great change.

 

30% increase on rewards It’s a great change.

 

But my absolute best SL gain on a EC 7 game using the premium sabre with a premium account, Is 200k, for the full 3 hours, I really realllly can’t Imagine how a f2p player It’s supposed to play a jet like the F-4E paying 69.357 SL every time he goes down, It sounds really scary guys.

 

Of course, you said that repair prices will be changed with the new update, but I really don’t know how much are you people willing to reduce It, so It makes me worried.

u need to do usefull action

 

[[email protected] 39]

@ Stona
Can I have a helicopter participate in this test event?
I know there is the issue of rewards, but I expect that just having helicopters in the event would expand the scope of the combat game.

@ Stona

And I thought about it when I played in the middle of the game.
I think it is very difficult to start with 0 SP when you enter the room.
If you start with 0 SP, you will usually start by earning SP in Tu-14, IL-28, B-57B, and Canberra B.
This is especially true when you are in the middle of a test event, and in the jet rank zone of the current test event, you will be spotted by radar and killed by AAM before you can earn SP.
This is why it takes 450 SP to use the high end aircraft in the rank zone, can't I just have it when I enter and join?

By the way, there is a reason why it is not a problem to participate with 450 SP in your possession.
That is solved by the cool time when you are defeated or lost.
 

As someone who flies air combat SB from time to time, I don't care much about the rewards as I only participate when I get 100%+ boosters.
If I had to say, I would say that the repair cost for some aircraft is 60000SL, which I find difficult to use.

This SB test event is about rewards, so I'm talking about something off topic.
However, I would be happy if such SB test events were held on a regular or frequent basis.

I feel that there are many things to be adjusted and improved in addition to the rewards.

Edited July 16, 2021 by [email protected]

[The_Tea_Rex 801]

Ok, so the rewards for the EC2 lobby seem bad. Really, really bad. Here are some screenshots that people have kindly sent to me on discord. Look at the rewards compared to time played, and look at how low the activity percentage is...

 

I'm not sure if this is intentional, or an error, but if its intentional then all I can say is RIP to EC1 - EC4.

 

 

 

 

Another point I want to raise is that this new system would make it "profitable" again to do suicide bombing missions, especially with the repair costs going down on aircraft like the A2D and the A7D and now getting 80% of credit before landing.

 

I'm not saying the 80% credit is a bad thing, but it will encourage this sort of behavior, which will then affect the results, which will then cause unneccessary nerfs to the general economy of the game mode (getting deja vu from 2015, 2018 and 2020...)

Edited July 16, 2021 by The_Tea_Rex
formatting

[TaumelScheibe 183]

9 minutes ago, The_Tea_Rex said:

Look at the rewards compared to time played, and look at how low the activity percentage is...

I had a similar experience even in the EC6 event, i had plenty of kills but most of those happened in a short period of time, that might be the problem.

The majority of the enemy team left early, so there were a lot of 15min Battle intervals without "useful activity".

It seems that your Activity goes down significantly if you have intervals without action.