PL-5B AAMs need to be fixed before going to the live server.

[ThiccChezeBurger 58]

PL-5 has the following wrong characteristics in Game (Dev Server)

Max G Overload: 20G

 

According to at least two sources from books and journal articles, this value should be 30G

According to 世界飞机武器手册（World Warplane Weapons Handbook ) by 航空工业出版社 （Chinese Airplane Industry Publish Inc )

Following pictures are my translations

 

 

Second Source:1996中国国际航天博览会：中国导弹专题报道 （1996 Chinese Aerospace EXPO: Chinese Missile Specialized Report）, by: Journalist :远林 

The followings are my translation:

 

Both sources indicated that PL-5B can pull a maximum of 30 G instead of 20.

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by ThiccChezeBurger

[Vonarian aka Ardeshir 2,879]

Hi!

This historical inaccuracy is already reported and I'm sure developers are aware of the issue (and most likely fixed it, who knows?).

Be patient until the live server update.

[ThiccChezeBurger 58]

55 minutes ago, Vonarian_IR said:

Hi!

This historical inaccuracy is already reported and I'm sure developers are aware of the issue (and most likely fixed it, who knows?).

Be patient until the live server update.

Thank you, I am convinced.

[CLOSE_RANGE 74]

Nice find! English-language sources don't have much information on Chinese air-to-air missiles, and what they do have is often conflicting. It's nice that you have access to Chinese print sources, they should be a bit more authoritative than the web sources that we often have to rely on.

 

I noticed in the first picture that right column of the table where you got the PL-5B's overload suddenly starts talking about the "PL-4A" and "PL-4B" when it lists the weight and length, I know those are actual missiles but the inclusion of their statistics in this table seems like a mistake? The 150 kg and 148 kg weights would make sense for the PL-4 series since they are medium range radar guided missiles. Now that I think of it, the PL-5B's weight often gets cited as 148 kg, which doesn't seem reasonable for a lightweight IR missile with a similar design to the AIM-9 or R-13M. Maybe this book could be a source of confusion, from people assuming that "PL-4" is a typo and the numbers are correct? I think some sources say the PL-5B weighs about 87 kg, which makes much more sense. I might look into this further, if the PL-5B weighs almost twice as much in War Thunder as it does in reality, the performance could be negatively affected. If your book happens to discuss the PL-4 at some point I would be interested in seeing what it says for the weights of the PL-4A and PL-4B- if those are 150 kg and 148 kg, then it's almost certain that someone made a mistake while editing the book and the PL-5 doesn't weigh 148+ kg.

 

On the dev server, the PL-5B initially had 16G overload which was then corrected to 20 G. I read several bug reports by @Merzhi about the PL-5B, which consisted of correct 16G to 20G and later to suggest introducing the PL-5C with a 30G overload. The web sources he used looked pretty clear on the PL-5B having 20G and the PL-5C having 30G, does your book mention the PL-5C at all?

 

Anyway I think you should make a bug report with your sources in this section of the Dev Server subforum, this section is for discussion and the developers don't look at it. It doesn't hurt for the developers to have more material to consult when they're tweaking the vehicles for the next patch.

[Merzhi 174]

 

6 hours ago, ThiccChezeBurger said:

PL-5 has the following wrong characteristics in Game (Dev Server)

Max G Overload: 20G

 

According to at least two sources from books and journal articles, this value should be 30G

According to 世界飞机武器手册（World Warplane Weapons Handbook ) by 航空工业出版社 （Chinese Airplane Industry Publish Inc )

Following pictures are my translations

 

 

Second Source:1996中国国际航天博览会：中国导弹专题报道 （1996 Chinese Aerospace EXPO: Chinese Missile Specialized Report）, by: Journalist :远林 

The followings are my translation:

 

Both sources indicated that PL-5B can pull a maximum of 30 G instead of 20.

 

The initial source you've listed doesn't actually list which missile receives the 30g overload, which makes there too much room for assumption. It could easily be talking about the best missile referenced in the text, which is the PL-5C (30G). The second source also lists incorrect weight for the missile. PL-5B is a 148kg warhead and only until the later PL-5E(30-40G) was the weight improved to the ~85kg listed in this source, which means it may be incorrect. I don't want to rain on the parade but accuracy is important here and the PL-5B is not a 30G warhead, the PL-5C is.

You should consider bug reporting it anyway though. As @CLOSE_RANGE mentioned, the more information they have, the better.

Edited May 30, 2021 by Merzhi

[Chunokkun 291]

the last report about PL-5B's max loadout was 20G, and it was applied for last dev server. there are no further reports reported after that report. if you want to replace the max load for your document, it would be good to report this document at dev server bug report quickly.

or, its max gravity loadout would remain for 20G.

Edited May 30, 2021 by Chunokkun

[SpitW 273]

17 hours ago, Merzhi said:

PL-5B is a 148kg

AFAIK, this book mistakenly printed the mass of PL-4 (some sort of replica of AIM-7D) here. There is no reason for a short-range missile to weigh that much.

Edited May 30, 2021 by SpitW

[[email protected] 2,313]

Honestly looks like a later variants

of the PL5 as the one in that source has the same fins as a AIM9L.

 

Edit: Scratch that it seems warthunder just has the entirely wrong missile visual model in general for it.

Edited May 30, 2021 by [email protected]

[ThiccChezeBurger 58]

On 30/05/2021 at 00:56, Merzhi said:

 

The initial source you've listed doesn't actually list which missile receives the 30g overload, which makes there too much room for assumption. It could easily be talking about the best missile referenced in the text, which is the PL-5C (30G). The second source also lists incorrect weight for the missile. PL-5B is a 148kg warhead and only until the later PL-5E(30-40G) was the weight improved to the ~85kg listed in this source, which means it may be incorrect. I don't want to rain on the parade but accuracy is important here and the PL-5B is not a 30G warhead, the PL-5C is.

You should consider bug reporting it anyway though. As @CLOSE_RANGE mentioned, the more information they have, the better.

The initial source table section is listing statistics regarding PL-5A and B missiles, the C variant was briefly mentioned above the list but never included into the list. 

[ThiccChezeBurger 58]

In the initial source, the list was talking about PL-5A and B, when a number does not indicate a specific value, it should be applied to both.

[ThiccChezeBurger 58]

On 30/05/2021 at 00:56, Merzhi said:

 

The initial source you've listed doesn't actually list which missile receives the 30g overload, which makes there too much room for assumption. It could easily be talking about the best missile referenced in the text, which is the PL-5C (30G). The second source also lists incorrect weight for the missile. PL-5B is a 148kg warhead and only until the later PL-5E(30-40G) was the weight improved to the ~85kg listed in this source, which means it may be incorrect. I don't want to rain on the parade but accuracy is important here and the PL-5B is not a 30G warhead, the PL-5C is.

You should consider bug reporting it anyway though. As @CLOSE_RANGE mentioned, the more information they have, the better.

As you mentioned, the list in the first source did not talk about which specific variant of PL-5 the data applies to, but so far the list only included PL-5As and Bs, therefore it suggests the statistic is the same for both A and B variants.

[Ziggy1989 1,585]

On 31/05/2021 at 11:16, ThiccChezeBurger said:

As you mentioned, the list in the first source did not talk about which specific variant of PL-5 the data applies to, but so far the list only included PL-5As and Bs, therefore it suggests the statistic is the same for both A and B variants.

The PL-5b is really weird and is no way pulling at least 20Gs, it has an exceptional long range though, it acts more like and Aim9D.  Also it randomly locks the sky if you are aiming high, no matter if it is night or day and away from sun. 

 

Can anyone else verify this ? 

Edited June 3, 2021 by Ziggy1989

[dawn_strike 72]

On 30/05/2021 at 12:56, Merzhi said:

 

The initial source you've listed doesn't actually list which missile receives the 30g overload, which makes there too much room for assumption. It could easily be talking about the best missile referenced in the text, which is the PL-5C (30G). The second source also lists incorrect weight for the missile. PL-5B is a 148kg warhead and only until the later PL-5E(30-40G) was the weight improved to the ~85kg listed in this source, which means it may be incorrect. I don't want to rain on the parade but accuracy is important here and the PL-5B is not a 30G warhead, the PL-5C is.

You should consider bug reporting it anyway though. As @CLOSE_RANGE mentioned, the more information they have, the better.

You may be inverting cause and effect by saying so.  World Warplane Weapons Handbook is a 1998 book and actually all sources about the 148kg weight online today originally come from this book  -- unfortunately this exact one book just mistook PL-4's weight as PL-5's. PL-4 was an unsuccessful project inspired by AIM-7D, 148kg is more reasonable for it.

 

On the PL-4 page (pp106) of this book, it is stated that PL-4B weighs 148kg:

 

Then on the PL-5 pages, as mentioned above:

 

The length and weight data was just taken from PL-4.

As a short-range dogfight IR missile, PL-5B having 148kg weight including a 30kg warehead would be wierd. For PL-4 inspired by AIM-7D it makes much more sense.

 

 

In fact, the most important improvement made by PL-5E over 5B was replacing the front wing and the seeker, thus increasing the overload to 40G and guaranteeing larger off-boresight launching angle. However these changes have little to do with the overall dimension of the missile, and therefore it is just logical that 5E and 5B had similar weight and length.

And about PL-5C, the main improvements are shortening the minimum range and introducing IR proximity fuze, but nothing to do with the overload.*

*This information comes from article 鹰击长空——两岸空空导弹性能比较  from the journal 舰载武器, 2004(04):72-78. in Chinese. This article also states that PL-5B weighs 85kg and has 30G overload.

 

 

 

Edited June 9, 2021 by dawn_strike

[社会信用点数已扣除 70]

Get a bug report in as soon as possible because now is the time when they fix stuff. Hopefully unlike the ztz99 tracks this gets fixed instantly and not in 6 months.

[jet_17_49 411]

9 minutes ago, Iittlepogchamp said:

Get a bug report in as soon as possible because now is the time when they fix stuff. Hopefully unlike the ztz99 tracks this gets fixed instantly and not in 6 months.

They fixed the tracks?

 

Edit: ok, apparently so. The eternally full autoloader and side ammorack is still a thing unfortunately.

Edited June 4, 2021 by jet_17_49

[社会信用点数已扣除 70]

2 minutes ago, jet_17_49 said:

They fixed the tracks?

Yes literally this patch, it took them 6months for the tracks to rotate properly 

[Merzhi 174]

 

On 02/06/2021 at 23:59, dawn_strike said:

You may be inverting cause and effect by saying so.  World Warplane Weapons Handbook is a 1998 book and actually all sources about the 148kg weight online today originally come from this book  -- unfortunately this exact one book just mistook PL-4's weight as PL-5's. PL-4 was an unsuccessful project inspired by AIM-7D, 148kg is more reasonable for it.

 

On the PL-4 page (pp106) of this book, it is stated that PL-4B weighs 148kg:

 

Then on the PL-5 pages, as mentioned above:

 

The length and weight data was just taken from PL-4.

As a short-range dogfight IR missile, PL-5B having 148kg weight including a 30kg warehead would be realiy wierd. For PL-4 inspired by AIM-7D it makes much more sense.

 

 

In fact, the most important improvement made by PL-5E over 5B was replacing the front wing and the seeker, thus increasing the overload to 40G and guaranteeing larger off-boresight launching angle. However there changes have little to do with the overall dimension of the missile, and therefore it is just logical that 5E and 5B had similar weight and length.

And about PL-5C, the main improvements are shortening the minimum range and introducing IR proximity fuze, but nothing to do with the overload.*

*This information comes from article 鹰击长空——两岸空空导弹性能比较  from the journal 舰载武器, 2004(04):72-78. in Chinese. This article also states that PL-5B weighs 85kg and has 30G overload:

 

 

 

I've located a few sources stating the PL-5B has a missile weight between 84 and 87kg so I will be bug reporting that today. Hopefully that gets updated so it has more maneuverability and acceleration.

[DSplayer 271]

I've written a bug report on it with some sources on why its inaccurate and a possible correct weight. Lets hope it's enough for it to be cleared.

[社会信用点数已扣除 70]

On 05/06/2021 at 17:41, DSplayer said:

I've written a bug report on it with some sources on why its inaccurate and a possible correct weight. Lets hope it's enough for it to be cleared.

Did it not get cleared?

[Ziggy1989 1,585]

4G launch, with really like 15G overload... This totally defeats the large boresight.

 

Missile is just like an Aim9D because it has some range... 

Edited June 8, 2021 by Ziggy1989

[DSplayer 271]

9 hours ago, Iittlepogchamp said:

Did it not get cleared?

It's still waiting to be approved.

[DSplayer 271]

On 08/06/2021 at 09:05, Ziggy1989 said:

4G launch, with really like 15G overload... This totally defeats the large boresight.

 

Missile is just like an Aim9D because it has some range... 

Don't forget that the missile doesn't really like to turn thanks to the incorrect weight.

[社会信用点数已扣除 70]

17 hours ago, DSplayer said:

It's still waiting to be approved.

How long does it usually take.

[DSplayer 271]

6 minutes ago, Iittlepogchamp said:

How long does it usually take.

I have zero idea

[Ziggy1989 1,585]

7 hours ago, Iittlepogchamp said:

How long does it usually take.

Once the hype around the F5C dies and sales start to slow down, that's how long. 

 

 Cannot have little free to play vehicles risk spoiling the experience of the fresh new player base that just dropped $60 on their number one selling item.  That's why the mig23 is going through it too, and R60s are immediately defeated by their flares. 

 

 

Anyway it will be about 2-3 weeks. 

 

 

Edited June 10, 2021 by Ziggy1989