Jump to content

Mixed Team of US + Germany at lower tiers are very bad for gameplay


It seems like devs have been testing specific combinations of teams lately with Britain + Germany last week and US + Germany this week. There's one problem though, the combination is much stronger than any other nation at that tier. At 5,7 French have no line ups, the british have a few options and USSR is mediocre at best with T-34-85s struggling to reach 50% for years  (something the devs are aware and refuse to do anything about).


Then you have the lack of a line up at 4.7 USSR with only the overtiered T-34-57 which was a victim of a stupid decision to move it there where it currently has 37% WR and they go up against undertiered Panther A and F and with the combination of US teams, Jumbos and M18s - so right now these teams enjoy by far the best CAS, easily the best AA, fast flankers, two OP medium tanks and TDs and Heavies to complement their line up. I don't need to tell you that even at their tiers nations will get sweeped and downtiers to fight Fireflies and T-34-37s are ridiculously broken.

This is why things should be tested before going live. Revert this change ASAP; there's a reason US and Germany teams were blocked for years, because last time they were allowed to be together they clubbed top tier for months. The sheer amount of vehicles alone should be a strong indication that these two nations cannot be paired.

  • Haha 1
  • Confused 2
  • Upvote 3
medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At the same time, US + UK also clubs at various BRs just as much as US + Germany would, lacking lineups has always been an issue and they still put important vehicles behind a paywall or event grind, like the TIS and the new ITP that could be very useful for USSR as they don't have great CAS, although it's questionable why a 3.3 plane has a 12k repaircost even before it's released, and how it compares to the 4.0 Yak-9T.

 

The problem is further made worse with the arbitrary rank system that prevents people from complimenting their lineup with vehicles from a different tier.. Japan for example has no lineup at 7.7.. they could consider to bring things like the ST series as with heatfs they could help build a lineup, but the rank system shuts this down entirely, combined with the excessive research penalty of course.

 

Making nation matchmaking specific per BR range to prevent OP combinations would be the answer, but Gaijin only does 0 or a 100, they never make small adjustments and instead go at a single pebble with a bulldozer that generally causes more problems than it solves, like the change with traction, which could have been fixed by  updating the problem areas, and instead they ruined traction across the board and instead of fixing the 1% of the problem where 99% was fine, they've now ruined it for the full 100% whilst the problem areas still exist, so I doubt they'd make it BR specific.

 

As for reverting to change, it solves some issues and causes new ones, either one doesn't seem an improvement.

  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 02/03/2021 at 13:07, Miragen said:

At the same time, US + UK also clubs at various BRs just as much as US + Germany would

I don't know about that, but US + Germany has created another problem instead of solving one. I just got out of a match where there was France, Sweden, China and USSR vs US, Germany and Italy. We were stomped, unsurprisingly. France doesn't even have a 5.7 line up in ground or air, Soviets don't even have ground attackers nor a useful anti air. They cap and them bombed us until the game was over.

Best medium tanks at that range: Panther A and F.
Best AA: M42 and Ostwind II and the infamous R3.
Best light vehicle: M18 and EBR.
Best Heavy tanks: Tiger E, H1 and Jumbos.
Best TD: Panzer IV 70, Waffentrager, T55E1
Best CAS: by far the AU-1, AM-1.
Best fighter: G55 and 109K4.

Your team is just outclassed in every single cathegory, it's beyong ridiculous. They know USSR has very bad line ups with the IS-2 and T-34-85 being overtiered and with poor stats ever since they were put at 5.7. In the way the game works they're supped to counter each other; heavy tanks are countered by fast vehicles with the M18. Tank destroyers hold the flanks, AA counter CAS, etc. They way it is now, you don't even have a proper 5.7 line up as France nor USSR can do that. It's hopeless and this combination seems a lot more common at peak times.

They can stop it at will, I just don't know why keep this going. It's not like Germany + Italy wasn't a very strong line up on its own. C'mon Gaijin you have the data, you know this has to stop. There's a reason US + Germany was blocked for years, last time they stomped and they're doing it again...

Edited by Despeao
  • Confused 3
  • Upvote 1
medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glad to see I'm not alone in this. For a while last month 80% or more of my matches were agaisnt Germany+USA+France at ~5.3 (I play as soviets). Needless to say most of them were stomps with EBRs, Panthers, Jumbos and Tigers swinging their dicks around

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

from my perspective usa teams always cried ger teams obilerated them and demanded to remove the block what prevented usa teaming up with germany, now at lower tiers every other nation suffer becouse of this (and im saying this becouse of how many years usa mains say pz IV f2 is undertiered and whine about their sherman getting killed by them?)

recently i played ita 3.3 and rus 3.7 to grind sl, but every match im against usa is an instant defeat, not to mention when usa teamed with ger, usa+ger teams now has armor and gun advantage, 3.7 sherman outclass 3.7 t-34 in every aspect exept mobility but you dont need that when you have better armor, better ammo and stabilizer

also no other nation has any capable cas plane exept usa at every br, if a nation has something what is decently good at killing ground targets they instantly getting nerfed becouse only usa is allowed to cas (i feel like rus 37mm armored belt got nerfed pretty hatd, yak-9t or su-6 with 57-60mm pen non penned isa tanks, la-5 with only 27mm pen did a better job killing tanks)

 

On 02/03/2021 at 17:07, Miragen said:

At the same time, US + UK also clubs at various BRs just as much as US + Germany would, lacking lineups has always been an issue and they still put important vehicles behind a paywall or event grind, like the TIS and the new ITP that could be very useful for USSR as they don't have great CAS, although it's questionable why a 3.3 plane has a 12k repaircost even before it's released, and how it compares to the 4.0 Yak-9T.

same with italian winter event plane, what is 2.7 and has 8k rep cost while best loadout only a 500kb bomb, ju-87 is soo much better in every way than that

also yak-9t got nerfed (at least it feels like it), when i tried doing air task for winter event i had noo kills with yak-9t while perfectly hitting targets, and la-5fn was soo much better with only 27mm pen

  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep just when you thought the German BIAS couldn't get any worse they put them on same team at 9.0 9.3 and 9.7 with USA alone so they have

 

g.91 g91 g91 g91 a4e a4b fjbvmf a7d harrier harrier 

 

amazing balance

 

 

  • Like 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nation based matchmaking as a whole should just be thrown out. It doesn't make any sense anyway, at least mosh pit matchmaking would reduce the precious que times and somewhat help with balance overall. 

 

Inb4 the usual crowd comes here and tries to explain why WWII NAZI Germany regularly teaming up with the USSR totally makes sense. 

  • Like 1
  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

American tanks at that br have quite a few advantages over Soviet tanks:

1) they have 12,7mm machine gun on almost every tank.

2) they have stabilized guns so they are able to get the first shoot off. Ant their gun stops wobbling really fast compared to 85mm.

3) American tanks out reload soviet ones by a lot. If you miss your first shoot in a soviet tank, you will almost certainly get shoot twice before you can fire again.

4) The gun depression on American tanks is twice better than on russian tanks, or in case of IS-2 more then 3 times better.

 

Soviet teams also really lack decent SPAA. The best SPAA vehicle Soviets get is BTR-125A at 3.0 with 2 14,5mm machine guns. And America is well known for their CAS capable fighters (Soviets have decent CAS options in Tu-2 plane, but they are bombers and die the moment American fighter sees them).

  • Upvote 2
medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, SlovenskaZver said:

oviet teams also really lack decent SPAA. The best SPAA vehicle Soviets get is BTR-125A at 3.0 with 2 14,5mm machine guns. And America is well known for their CAS capable fighters (Soviets have decent CAS options in Tu-2 plane, but they are bombers and die the moment American fighter sees them).

 

For me that's by far the worst part of the soviet tech tree up to 5.3. In terms of firepower the zis-12 is also very good at taking down aircrafts, light tanks and even some medium tanks at its br, but it can be destroyed by 7mm shots. I cry everytime a see a wirbelwind being effective, mobile and survivable at the same time.

Edited by Dulago
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, AssaultPlazma said:

Nation based matchmaking as a whole should just be thrown out. It doesn't make any sense anyway, at least mosh pit matchmaking would reduce the precious que times and somewhat help with balance overall. 

 

Inb4 the usual crowd comes here and tries to explain why WWII NAZI Germany regularly teaming up with the USSR totally makes sense. 

can we at least preserve some historical thing in war thunder? if you want nation based MM to be thrown out, i suggest you play arcade or world of tank. you still want to? well might just add paper vehicle

  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 1
medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, SuperKnight333 said:

can we at least preserve some historical thing in war thunder?

Implying this game was ever historical. What at all is historical about nazi Germany and the USSR fighting alongside each other? But hey gotta hold up that smug elitism somehow I guess. 

12 minutes ago, SuperKnight333 said:

if you want nation based MM to be thrown out, i suggest you play arcade

Arcade is about different game mechanics like ignoring semi accurate top speed in order to allow players to get to battle faster. Has nothing to do with matchmaking 

12 minutes ago, SuperKnight333 said:

or world of tank. you still want to?

What If I told you I play both WoT and WT AND Armored Warfare? 

12 minutes ago, SuperKnight333 said:

well might just add paper vehicle

This game already has paper vehicles. Not to mention sheningans like Centauros from 1991 killing T95's from 1945. 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Germany and US playing together in high tier is a nightmare. Being a British main, I can't even get out of the spawn when a HSTVL and a Radkampf are already shooting me from behind. It's like playing NATO against USSR but the nation with the most situational MBTs decided to switch sides. By that I mean that there are only a few British players, then a ton of Soviet and China players, aka mediocre to bad tanks against one of the fastest and well armoured tanks in the game. Germany should fight all nations alone because as well all know, the Leopard 2A4/5/6 dominate the game with circa 90% winrates. But will Gaijin do anything about it? No they won't because like World of Tanks has demonstrated for years, German vehicles and premiums are a real cash cow because all wannabe Michale Wittmans want to reenact the tactic they saw on History channel after 0000 hours.

  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 2
medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, AssaultPlazma said:

Implying this game was ever historical. What at all is historical about nazi Germany and the USSR fighting alongside each other? But hey gotta hold up that smug elitism somehow I guess. 

Arcade is about different game mechanics like ignoring semi accurate top speed in order to allow players to get to battle faster. Has nothing to do with matchmaking 

What If I told you I play both WoT and WT AND Armored Warfare? 

This game already has paper vehicles. Not to mention sheningans like Centauros from 1991 killing T95's from 1945. 

there not much paper vehicle, paper vehicle for japan was needed because they did not have real ww2 jet. if this game wasnt historical, panther 2 and tiger 105cm wouldnt have been removed, community wouldnt bash anyone who try to suggest even vehicle that was partially made, gaijin wouldnt have removed leopard 2k thermal and fix many other problem because of historical data.

 

also if this game wasnt historical, gaijin do not have to ask primary source anytime someone ask a vehicle to be fixed to IRL counterpart.  USA team up with germany because community complain about uSa sUfFeR at all BR when its only top tier ground RB USA suffer.

medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, SuperKnight333 said:

there not much paper vehicle, paper vehicle for japan was needed because they did not have real ww2 jet.

That's called realism, guess what? Real life isn't fair! Not my problem Japan got its third point of contact kicked before it finish a jet fighter. 

2 minutes ago, SuperKnight333 said:

if this game wasnt historical, panther 2 and tiger 105cm wouldnt have been removed,

They still existed grandfathered in players who had researched them prior

2 minutes ago, SuperKnight333 said:

community wouldnt bash anyone who try to suggest even vehicle that was partially made,

Community bashes "paper tanks" because it has the absurd sense of what I call "tribal elitism" whereby this community smugly holds up this veneer of realism where it never existed. There is no logical argument for not including concept vehicles. 

2 minutes ago, SuperKnight333 said:

gaijin wouldnt have removed leopard 2k thermal and fix many other problem because of historical data.

Meanwhile they add Mango rounds to the T-72 TURMS despite zero evidence of it ever carrying such rounds. Meanwhile they deny tanks their actual historical ammo purely on the grounds of making the game fair. Meanwhile they sit on various bug fixes for years now and refuse to address them. 

2 minutes ago, SuperKnight333 said:

also if this game wasnt historical, gaijin do not have to ask primary source anytime someone ask a vehicle to be fixed to IRL counterpart. 

Where do you think the "sekrit dokuments" or "sekrit statistiks" memes come from? 

2 minutes ago, SuperKnight333 said:

USA team up with germany because community complain about uSa sUfFeR at all BR when its only top tier ground RB USA suffer.

Lol that was done purely to speed up que times. Nobody wanted to be a piñata for the dual German/Swedish arrowhead murder machine and thus the precious que times suffered.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

According to this image US, UK and France have the best WR at lower BRs

 

1109657979_static_heatmap_default_demo(2

  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...