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Nerf the P-47D in Ground RB


Dunno man, German SPAAs kinda shreds the competition.

I love 37mm and generally i can kill many planes with OST I and II and the 6.3 one.

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5 hours ago, ULQ_LOVER said:

And what is the problem in saying that if You are not able to do something such simple, you need to l2p?


A person cannot control how other SPAA players react to aircraft (such as my own), so it isn’t  an L2P matter for those in aircraft.

 

6 hours ago, ULQ_LOVER said:

And one day maybe You will realize that You are wrong in many aspects 


If I was mistaken I’d be the first to acknowledge it—I just haven’t been.

 

6 hours ago, ULQ_LOVER said:

And I wouldn't have a problem in losing SP rather than dying and losing SL


A person who successfully returns to their base should not lose SP or SL.

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4 hours ago, HalbKana said:

This is the core of the problem; the perpetual favoritism towards aircraft.


Considering aircraft are both the most expensive and the least cost-effective vehicles in RB GFs, this allegation of “perpetual favoritism” is simply baseless. (Rounding out the list of facts that disprove that claim is the note that fixed wing aircraft are the only sort of land/air vehicles that cannot be used as first spawns.

 

In RB GFs, tanks are heavily favored over aircraft.

Edited by warrior412
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11 hours ago, Haxburch said:

nonsense ... theorie fairy tale

rockets dont make the dmg for a kill and are not accurate ...

bomb , 2x500kg  works but is still not easy but this is the kill i count.

1x250kg is nonsense you need almost direct hit .

 

and cal50 anybody with cal50 can spray tanks for marks and assists . This is not spezial to p47...

reading this after  3 bomb kills with fw 190 f 8 4x50kg plus 1000kg is funny. 3 drops, a kill with each drop.

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3 hours ago, warrior412 said:

A person cannot control how other SPAA players react to aircraft (such as my own), so it isn’t  an L2P matter for those in aircraft.

A person can control what happens to him, so it is L2P issue for You :good:

3 hours ago, warrior412 said:

If I was mistaken I’d be the first to acknowledge it—I just haven’t been.

:016:

3 hours ago, warrior412 said:

A person who successfully returns to their base should not lose SP or SL.

Give me a zone where I can leave my tank/spaa without death and I won't have a problem :good:

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19 hours ago, Luckyluchs_777 said:

If Allied mains can complain and raise hell about the G91 r/3, I can do the same about the P-47D.

 

It’s not even the M18 hellcats or the T55E1s that bother me. Heck the ebr 1954 only makes me a little miffed. But those P-47s are a plague upon this earth. They have tons of bombs, rockets, 50 cals, and are perfect for revenge bombing. 
 

At least Allied mains have radar SPAA to deal with the G91 spam. German WW2 SPAA may be powerful but has trouble tracking and killing P-47s at range. Revenge bombing P-47s are the worst because they are literally unstoppable to slow moving German tanks. There ain’t no counter to this skilless move. 

As a player who has acquired the P-47D himself, I think all CAS planes with ordinance should start on the ground to delay their entrance to the battlefield. The Jug is simply too powerful as I have killed several Me-262s with it as well as scores of German tanks. 
 

P.S. Allied mains complain about the G91 because they’ve never been subject to the wrath of Axis cas in great numbers. 

 

 

If you think the P47 op, you should try the TU2S, this thing is guaranteed 4 bomb kills.

 

I did 11 kills in one live (+2 with Stalinbolt) with it 2 days ago, 13 cas kills but still lost tho.

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21 hours ago, Luckyluchs_777 said:

At least Allied mains have radar SPAA to deal with the G91 spam

One tank, 247. The rest are unusable. 

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3 hours ago, ULQ_LOVER said:

A person can control what happens to him, so it is L2P issue for You :good:


Yeah...no. A person cannot control how others aim, particularly when those others can change their aim so quick—as is the case here. Your L2P talk is simply wrong.
 

Even so, I remain happy to correct you and help you understand these things which have confused you.
 

3 hours ago, ULQ_LOVER said:

Give me a zone where I can leave my tank/spaa without death and I won't have a problem :good:


If you read the posts before, you’d see I  have already called for exactly that.

 

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1 hour ago, Daffan said:

One tank, 247. The rest are unusable. 

WZ305 - 7 Ginas for me in 1 game is my personal record.

(WZ305 has 5km range, 247 only 4km)

Edited by Noir89
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49 minutes ago, Noir89 said:

WZ305 - 7 Ginas for me in 1 game is my personal record.

(WZ305 has 5km range, 247 only 4km)

15m radius but no radar, no tracking and you will get own zoned by a competent g.91 hull breaking you from 200km away while you click only 4 times and than have to reload lulz. 

 

 

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23 hours ago, Luckyluchs_777 said:

Believe me, I’ve tried that. Most of the time, I’ve been overwhelmed by 50 cal spamming fighters or sometimes Spitfires while in a Bf-109. In a Wirbelwind, I usually got overwhelmed with only 80 rounds per clip and with the Ostwind I, I don’t have enough volume of fire to take down P-47s. 

 

Having played German 4.X heavily, I have used the Bf 109F-4 and Wirbelwind a great deal and can say both are very capable of wiping out opposition more easily than Allied fighters and especially SPAAs. (To be clear, I understand you have not said those German vehicles to be worthless--just that you have not had as good of luck with them). If you want to talk more about those things, I'm open to chatter in PMs.

 

As the Ostwind goes...it's alright but it used to be better. Its AP belts were watered down (hurting its dual role capability) and its rate/weight of fire is lower than the Wirbelwind's as well. The Ostwind is basically more of a sniper SPAA where the Wirbelwind lends itself well to simply spraying the skies.

 

23 hours ago, Luckyluchs_777 said:

The few times I’ve successfully cleared out the Allied fighters, the Allies usually took the capture point as the 109s have practically no anti-tank ability outside one 250kg bomb or one salvo of br21 rockets. 

 

The Bf 109s are indeed primarily meant for anti-aircraft work--though they can be used against tanks in certain situations as well. For example:

  • it is possible to harm/kill T-34s' turret crewmen with the Bf 109's MG 151/20 air belts if you attack at a near vertical angle  (you can eventually even kill such tanks that way via crew elimination)
  • The 15mm belts of some of the gun pods carried by Bf 109Fs have good AP capability and are more potent than the 20mm in that regard
  • 50kg bombs, with precise aim, are deadly to tanks and with two pairs carried it is possible to have multiple drops (this option is best reserved for people who have honed their aiming and are willing to forego the potential for multiple kills with the 250kg bomb in lieu of two chances with the 2x50kg pairs)
  • The Wfr.Gr.21 rockets are good rockets, though I personally use them very rarely (I seldom use their mounted vehicles in RB GFs, preferring others)
    • If you're going with the Bf 109G-6 at 4.7 with those rockets, I'd advise trying the Fw 190F-8 with its bombs instead

Overall it is true that, by and large, your job in a Bf 109 is primarily to clear the skies for others in air or ground units to capture zones and kill enemy ground units.

 

23 hours ago, Luckyluchs_777 said:

We don’t talk about the Do335s or the Me-410s because they’re bricks and easily get shot to pieces by the swarms of Allied fighters.

 

Unless there's some miracle hidden behind their stock syndrome, I would agree the Do 335As are cows with mediocre features to offer (I've preferred to retain my Do 217E-4 often times). My own Do 335A-1 is still in a very limited upgrade state, as I have had little interest in the type. The Do 335A-1 has just struck me as unimpressive when I compare it to the Do 217Es and Me 410s I could take instead on that slot. (The Do 335B looks more promising--but it's a premium vehicle which I do not have.)

 

With that in mind, I will tell you that I find the Me 410s are generally quite respectable and that I would say the derision of them as "bricks" is harsh. With proper handling, the Me 410s are decently maneuverable and can be workable even in the face of enemy fighters so long as the Me 410 pilot is very dedicated to the fight. Your Me 410 probably cannot match an enemy fighter's turn...but you're probably not going to be as far off as people think either. If your Me 410 is brought into a fight with an enemy fighter, your handling is on point and his is not quite perfect...you have a good chance of being the victor. (Markerless RB is far more forgiving in this regard that RB AFs--in RB AFs, the maneuverability difference is far more apparent and of far greater importance.) For RB GFs, the only Me 410s I personally have found are worth bothering with would be the A-1 and the B-6/R3 (the B-1 and the /U4 variants are workable but mediocre for the BRs they have while the /U2 variants are excessively single-purposed).
 

As German CAS goes (from 3.3-5.3), other options you'd be well advised to check into include the Hs 129B-2 (with MK 103 pod), Bf 110G-2 (with BK 3,7 (37mm) pod), Fw 190A-5/U2, Fw 190F-8 and Do 217Es.

 

Again, if you'd like to talk about this more in PMs, you can message me.

Edited by warrior412
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2 hours ago, warrior412 said:

Yeah...no. A person cannot control how others aim, particularly when those others can change their aim so quick—as is the case here. Your L2P talk is simply wrong.

And where was about how other aim rather than how You avoid their bullets?

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12 minutes ago, ULQ_LOVER said:

And where was about how other aim rather than how You avoid their bullets?


You cannot avoid their fire and continue your attack. (That’s why an SPAA can “win” just by shooing aircraft away.)

 

As before, you cannot really anticipate their attacks either—smart SPAA players will feign a lack of awareness to lure aircraft into a trap.

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You can jump up and down like a toddler in the market but nobody will nerf the p47 ...

 p47 kill not even 1 tank per spawn and this is  what my expirience say.

90% of the p47 user  know only one ACM -> headone ... nothing more . Some funny guy sayed you get after dropping your bombs and rockets a good fighter ....lol .

 

Evry encounter over the tank battlefield is happen between 10-1000m ... p47 suxx at this attitude .

I fly this days really alot air patrol over tank battlefields and i not even meet alot p47 ...

maybe i get only matched with people which dont like p47 . I dont know ...

Edited by Haxburch
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2 hours ago, warrior412 said:

You cannot avoid their fire and continue your attack. (That’s why an SPAA can “win” just by shooing aircraft away.)

Like You can't shot bullets at him, avoid shots coming at You and wait till reaload or till Your shots kill his gunner :016:?

2 hours ago, warrior412 said:

As before, you cannot really anticipate their attacks either—smart SPAA players will feign a lack of awareness to lure aircraft into a trap.

Smart Plane player can avoid SPAA before it will be fully able to shot at the plane :good:

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P-47s team with Wirbels now, the old Allied v Axis debate is now generally out of date and one for the history books, as are the "perfect X v perfect y" discussions when looking at the average use.

 

If anything GFRB BRs could be balanced with aircraft capability rather than I presume AFRB "stats", but we know vehicles are not balanced this way (it's overall in-game use, hence all those pros get neutered by the general ineffectiveness of whichever vehicle by average play). They can't really split them, even TS can't for those out if game stat site comparisons. If they used player stats we get what we have, if not even lower BRs, if they used "vehicle capability" (which is going to be different for individuals to some extent) some could get a more apt BR placement in regards to just GF... But I doubt they can do both capablity and player use balances, as we have seen with recent BR changes in GF ground vehicles.

 

 

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I'll just leave this idea here. 

When ADATS and Ka-50 was a thing, I scored #1 in team, having :
0 base caps
2 assisted kills
0 ground kills
8 air kills


Just let it sink in for a minute

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2 minutes ago, WolFie90 said:

I'll just leave this idea here. 

When ADATS and Ka-50 was a thing, I scored #1 in team, having :
0 base caps
2 assisted kills
0 ground kills
8 air kills


Just let it sink in for a minute

One battle against all You had? 

And the comparing P-47 situation to radar SPAA against heli is just stupid

Edited by ULQ_LOVER
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Can someone please clear out the obvious troll? It's getting annoying to see another thread bloat due to TROLL_LOVER on one of his usual trips through the forum....

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5 minutes ago, ULQ_LOVER said:

One battle against all You had? 

And the comparing P-47 situation to radar SPAA against heli is just stupid

One battle? It was just the best example. 

Hey, while, you're allready lit, here's some gasoline.
How do you feel about this?
 

Spoiler

Screenshot-2021-02-28-122227.jpg

 

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14 minutes ago, WolFie90 said:

One battle? It was just the best example. 

Hey, while, you're allready lit, here's some gasoline.
How do you feel about this?

So Your stats when talking about deaths per aircraft destroyed in ADATs don't tell the truth?

 

Preatty bad load.

I prefer Do 335 B-2 with guns and bombs, or Tu-2 with 4x 500kg, or even Do 217 with 4x 1000kg :good:

Edited by ULQ_LOVER
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3 hours ago, ULQ_LOVER said:

Like You can't shot bullets at him, avoid shots coming at You and wait till reaload or till Your shots kill his gunner


Ah yes...wait around for a 4 second window or fly towards him and hope for the best (which could be anything).

 

Two strategies for the ages. :016:
 

3 hours ago, ULQ_LOVER said:

Smart Plane player can avoid SPAA before it will be fully able to shot at the plane :good:


Not really. SPAAs can spray further out than aircraft can and have far quicker reaction times than aircraft thanks to easier movements like their fast turret traverses.

Edited by warrior412
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17 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

Ah yes...wait around for a 4 second window or fly towards him and hope for the best (which could be anything).

 

Two strategies for the ages. :016:

Oh yes, flying not in a straight line while shoting at the enemy from the fair distance where You can avoid shots and kill his gunner is just a pro player move that isn't easy to implement, got it :lol2:

18 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

Not really. SPAAs can spray further out than aircraft can and have far quicker reaction times than aircraft thanks to easier movements like their fast turret traverses.

Not really. Airplane is able to attack SPAA from any direction it wants. You can avoid his shots by changing trajectory for some time while Your shots gets to him 

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8 hours ago, Daffan said:

but no radar, no tracking

both overrated =)    (Range + Proxy Fuze with a bigger Calibe then 40mm is everything u need)

-> and its nice to train for the moment we get radar homing missiles.

Edited by Noir89
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On 28/02/2021 at 05:55, ULQ_LOVER said:

Oh yes, flying not in a straight line while shoting at the enemy from the fair distance where You can avoid shots and kill his gunner is just a pro player move that isn't easy to implement, got it

 

It's not a "pro player move," it's just not anything that actually happens like that.

 

Even at the most distant ranges where guns like the P-47's 12.7mms can be used at, SPAAs' guns are still more effective and more likely to get fatal hits in (especially a great sprayer like the Wirbelwind). You must fly toward the enemy to engage him; when you fire your guns at him and at the ranges where you can, he can engage you too.

 

On 28/02/2021 at 05:55, ULQ_LOVER said:

Not really. Airplane is able to attack SPAA from any direction it wants. You can avoid his shots by changing trajectory for some time while Your shots gets to him 

 

Obviously you're very mistaken about these things. As I said above, you misunderstand how the engagements work:

  • It is a myth that aircraft can engage SPAAs from any direction--commonly terrain features and/or cover prevent this
  • Aircraft must fly toward the target at some point for some amount of time to attack the target (exact measurements vary)

I can explain all of these things to you in more detail via PM if you'd like--but I don't care to clutter the thread trying to help you here. @Deranger79 is quite right to not want the thread to be bogged down by any tangents.

Edited by warrior412
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