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[FEEDBACK] Ki-61 & Ki-100 incorrectly modelled armour protection


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# Circuit / Game Version 2.3.0.117

 

# Description

In game every Ki-61 and Ki-100 use the exact same seat armour model, which doesn't even match the visual models and in few cases the visual model itself is also wrong. This also includes a sizeable gap between the two pilot's armour plates. The gap seems about 10cm in size, while in reality the two armour plates don't seem to have had a gap where a bullet would fit. The armour thickness isn't correct either and a third armour plate is missing from some variants.

 

These are all the seven Ki-61&Ki-100 variants in game. See how only Ki-100-II has slightly different model.

910506345_Ki-61Ki-100armour.thumb.jpg.1f

 

These are interior models from close:

Ki-61-I ko, otsu, hei & tei

1465279657_shot2021_07_3120_36_26.thumb.

Ki-61-II and Ki-100-Ia

1229554690_shot2021_07_3120_45_47.thumb.

Ki-100-II

1643163802_shot2021_07_3120_52_20.thumb.

 

 

In reality there were four different armour layouts:

 

1. Ki-61-I ko with 10mm head&shoulders armour plate and 10mm back plate.

 

2. Ki-61-I otsu, Ki-61-I hei, Ki-61-I tei and Ki-61-II Kai had greatly improved armour. The head&shoulders armour plate was changed to 16mm* and it should have the same shape and size in each variant. The visual model in Ki-61-II is close, but it should be slightly taller to cover the structural part just above the seat cushion. The back plate was changed to 12mm and in addition an angled 8mm* plate was added to cover the radiator from behind.

In short from top to bottom 16mm head, 12mm back, 8mm radiator.

 

3. Ki-100-Ia protection was otherwise the same as above, but it obviously lacked the radiator plate.

 

4. Ki-100-II protection was nearly same as in razorback Ki-100-Ia, but head&shoulders plate was slightly different shape to provide better rear visibility.

 

 

*A note about the head&shoulders plate: 16mm might sound very thick for someone who has researched WWII aircraft armour plates. The exact thickness of this plate varies from source to source (up to 17.5mm), but in the case of Kawasaki, their second most produced fighter the Ki-45 also carried a 16mm armour plate behind the pilot and so did the Ki-96. The larger Ki-102 on the other hand had two phased 12mm plates. Another protection feature shared by all Kawasaki fighters was the total lack of bulletproof windscreen.

 

*A note about the radiator armour: The thickness of this plate also varies a little from source to source. It said to be either 8mm or 9.5mm. Back then Americans often used 1/8th inch as a measurement unit. This 9.5mm comes from an American report and 3/8th inch = 0.375inch = 9.525mm, so we can assume it is simply a slight measurement error. At least this small discrepancy appoints that the publications rely on separate original sources.

Another thing to note is that a 200 liter fuel tank was mounted behind the pilot until serial number 513. The radiator armour was mounted already to s/n 514, so it must have been added there to retain center of balance, without making any significant changes to the airframe.

 

The current ingame protection of two 13mm is likely based on an American report about a Ki-61-I Ko. Somehow they weren't able to tell difference between 10.5mm and 12.7mm with their measuring tools.

 

# Sources

Kawasaki Ki-61 Hien / Ki-100 (Monographs) by Leszek A. Wieliczko

This source offers the most complete view: Ko was built with 10mm armour plates. Small batches of Otsu were build with different levels of protection, but the vast majority had 16mm head, 12mm back and 8mm radiator plates. Page 19 notes that the armour protection of Hei was the same as late in late Otsu. After that Tei, II Kai and Ki-100-I chapters all simply noten that the protection remained the same as in preceding variant. Ki-100-II chapter mentions that all three existing prototypes were converted Ki-100-Is. Sheet number 13 on page 100 shows how the plates are positioned without a gap.

690706522_KawasakiKi-61HienKi-100byLesze 391557045_KawasakiKi-61HienKi-100page16. 112367616_KawasakiKi-61HienKi-100page19.

1097540070_KawasakiKi-61HienKi-100page20 447427912_KawasakiKi-61HienKi-100page22. 1640335976_KawasakiKi-61HienKi-100page24

331675151_KawasakiKi-61HienKi-100page30. 1003011554_KawasakiKi-61HienKi-100page33 1224661614_KawasakiKi-61HienKi-100page10

 

IJA TYPE 3 FIGHTER KAWASAKI Ki-61 HIEN/TYPE 5 Ki-100, PICTORIAL BOOK MARU MECHANIC #37

On page 36 there are Ki-61-I heis on production line with the larger head&shoulders armour plate than it has in game. The variant can be easily identified by the wing guns and bulges on top of the wings.

Page 74 bottom middle mentions the added 8mm radiator armour starting from unit 514.

frontcover.thumb.jpg.4d9b91696b5d3084525 1192157503_Ki-61-Ihei.thumb.jpg.e71008c7 752014354_page74.thumb.jpg.987b18b42153e

 

Monogram - 'Japanese Aircraft Interiors 1940-1945'

https://www.scribd.com/document/208589650/Monogram-Japanese-Aircraft-Interiors-1940-1945

242961930_Monogram-JapaneseAircraftInter 1873769484_Monogram-JapaneseAircraftInte

572601263_Monogram-JapaneseAircraftInter 1749829838_Monogram-JapaneseAircraftInte

 

Manual on Japanese aircraft, TAIC No. 1

download link https://cgsc.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/p4013coll8/id/4531

cover http s://i-com.cdn.gaijin.net/monthly_2021_07/279366482_TAICMANUALno1.jpg.43f38d4417b8d6058d63fc1c6de1afeb.jpg

page 74 "Armour plate is used to protect the radiator." https://i-com.cdn.gaijin.net/monthly_2021_09/1224500169_page74.jpg.c6e3737caee0dc2a05ea75e1b4f1c823.jpg

 

Technical Air Intelligence Wreck chasing in the Pacific during the war

https://www.scribd.com/document/100131980/Technical-Air-Intelligence-Wreck-Chasing-in-the-Pacific-During-the-War

Page 18: " a TONY was found with pilot protection that had been increased to 17.5mm and 12.7mm plates and included radiator armor. "

350891865_TechnicalAirIntelligenceWreckC 153549254_TechnicalAirIntelligenceWreckC

 

Here is also a TAIU report about Ki-61-I hei serial number 3010, which crash landed on Umboi island early 1944. Unfortunately I couldn't find the source.

https://pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/ki-61/3010.html

armour.jpg

 

Here are several pictures showing the larger upper plate in different wrecks.

https://pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/ki-61/299/2002/hars-rg.html They claim this is a Ki-61-I ko.

https://pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/ki-61/640/2000/tonycockpit4.html From this and the few next ones you can see there is no gap between the plates in Ki-61-I otsu.

https://pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/ki-61/640/2004/precision/cockpit-side-camo-cu.html

https://www.asisbiz.com/PNG/Kawasaki-Ki-61-Hien/pages/PNG-Museum-Kawasaki-Ki-61-Hien-Tony-Sep-2002-08.html

https://www.asisbiz.com/PNG/Kawasaki-Ki-61-Hien/pages/PNG-Museum-Kawasaki-Ki-61-Hien-Tony-Sep-2002-10.html

https://www.asisbiz.com/PNG/Kawasaki-Ki-61-Hien/pages/PNG-Museum-Kawasaki-Ki-61-Hien-Tony-Sep-2002-09.html Here you can see lower edge of the lower plate.

http://ki43.on.coocan.jp/oversea/Wangaratta/Wangaratta.html

https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/japan/aircrafts/ki-61-hien/ki61-assembly-line-3/ The out protracted wing gun barrels and larger bulges in wings clearly show this is the MG 151/20 armed Ki-61-I hei.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Kawasaki_Ki-61_Hien-II-Kai(No.6117)_canopy_right_front_view_at_Kobe_Port_Terminal_October_23,_2016.jpg This is Ki-61-II in Kobe airport terminal 2016. There are lots of pictures of it.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Kawasaki_Ki-61_Hien-II-Kai_Armor_glass(Replica_model)_at_Kobe_Port_Terminal_October_23,_2016.jpg This the lower armour plate and the mount. Notice the position of the bolt holes.

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-the-cockpit-of-kawasaki-ki-100-type-5-imperial-japanese-army-fighter-13614399.html Ki-100-Ib in Cosford RAF museum.

Edited by Teh0
medal medal

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  • 1 month later...

Hi.

 

Out of all your sources, only the japan archives are acceptablée as is.

 

I am not sure where the last picture is coming from, maybe it could be used and make the report valid if referenced.

 

Can you please clarify ?

 

Regards

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  • Templar_ changed the title to [FEEDBACK] Ki-61 & Ki-100 incorrectly modelled armour protection

Pending update from OP as discussed in PMs

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