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Listen up fellas (bomber gunner solution suggestion)


Okay I got this idea for bombers.

 

What if we put 10-30 seconds of timer for switching pilot/gunner.

 

Like, you fly, you switch to gunner you are stuck with gunner for 30secs,

you are gunner you switch to pilot you stuck with pilot flying the plane 30secs.

 

Idea behind this is to cut simultaneous control of the gunner and the plane to prevent artificial pilot adjustment of the plane for the gunner to get an angle. 

 

Well it sounds good to me. If he is in gunner control I would be comfortable to know that the bomber is not going to dodge doing arcade thing and I can align my aim.

If he is in pilot control I can know he is just trying to run away desperately xD

 

But most importantly he won't be able to dive 80* while shooting gunners.

 

PS: No plane control on gunner mode should be applied.

 

Basically this no more:

image.thumb.png.62a471f3ff7e7579d06e6612

 

But if games trailer is this. I highly  doubt if its a feature or not xD

Edited by AdelWolf
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I think it is really not helpful if every week there is a new solution for the bomber issue. This will just confuse the devs in case they even read anything being written in the forums. It would make a lot more sense to have a combined, unified opinion which is also pretty straight forward.

From all solutions by far the simplest is to just lock the gunners for players and make them shoot from 400m distance, AI controlled. Done. Easy, problem solved. No necessity to come up with stranger and stranger ideas every new week.

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I don't know as though this will help much as most zombers/gunner abusers just sit in gunner view pretty much all day long anyways don't they? So the 30 sec timer won't really have any effect. 

 

That being said I do like the idea of the pilot running to the different gun stations like a chase scene from Scooby-Doo.:D

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On 09/02/2021 at 03:22, [email protected] said:

I don't know as though this will help much as most zombers/gunner abusers just sit in gunner view pretty much all day long anyways don't they? So the 30 sec timer won't really have any effect. 

 

That being said I do like the idea of the pilot running to the different gun stations like a chase scene from Scooby-Doo.:D

Or restrict the amount of time someone could be in gunner mode. For example, everytime you switch to gunner, you can only be in that station for 10 seconds, then it puts you back in pilot seat and you have to wait 30 seconds in order to use gunner view again. 

 

But, lets be real here. Gaijin refuses to make simple changes, so something like this would be too challenging for them to implement :DD

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The simplest way to solve this would be to leave the AI gunners, but as I think Gaijin does not want to make changes to the bombers, any suggestion is to punch water

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Keep in mind that the controls are the same in ab/rb/sb.

I don't think they can change it ( easly) for sb only.

 

With that in mind, if you go to other modes, you are screwed as a bomber.

In rb they will shoot you from 1 km.

In AB from 2km....

It is a pretty f****d up situation.

Bomber gunners have been ( as far as i can remember...) op . Always.

For sb, at least , they should make some sort of difficulty in aiming with gunners...now it's the same as rb, but we must aim at them with joysticks....

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Mouse aim and no stabilisers should do the trick.

 

If they can lock out mouse aim for mouse users in SB, that should be pretty easy to follow with the same solution regarding gunner stations.

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  • 2 weeks later...
8 minutes ago, Zooloo said:

If you remove manual gunners, bomber pilots will have less active gameplay and more boredom. not good !

 

I think we just need G force to have more effect on operating capabilities of gunners.

Why? How much G's are the gunners being exposed to?

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6 minutes ago, AdelWolf said:

Why? How much G's are the gunners being exposed to?

Well sometimes you reach a bomber, he goes full positive or negative Gs while shooting at you. A human should not be able to fire a gun properly while beeing bounced all over the plane - i guess he s wrapped or something of course but he can not predict the exact moves of the pilot so he should be unable to aim his gun when the plane is pulling hard Gs, and should have at least a little recovery time.

 

Which would mean the bomber has to choose between trying to evade the attack or shooting properly.

Edited by Zooloo
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I have mixed feelings about whether or not players should even be able to to control bomber gunners.

At the moment, I'm inclined to think they should not. 

You have one life when you fly out, regardless of there being multiple crew members aboard. 

When you get pilot sniped, you die. The navigator/radiomam/bombardier/gunners don't take the yoke. This suggests that the life you are simulating is that of the pilot. 

IMHO, you should have to choose between flying the plane or being the rest of the crew. 

If you want to fly, you can do so and choose to go wherever you want, but you cannot control the gunners.

If you want to control the gunners, you can choose what target to bomb and your pilot will fly there without deviating from his flight plan. You are are locked to gunners. And only on approach to target can you go into bombsights as the bombardier, and from there make slight flight path changes before bombs away. Then it's back to gunners only. 

Even in this scenario, the ridiculous way gunners are implemented needs to be changed from the superhuman gunners we have currently. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Is is that bad? I fly He-111 a lot and just leave it to AI. Still get quite a bit of kills because people just sit and fire instead of making passes.

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46 minutes ago, Perustaja said:

Is is that bad? I fly He-111 a lot and just leave it to AI. Still get quite a bit of kills because people just sit and fire instead of making passes.

It's a perfect solution, but the AI gunners need to start shooting from 400 or 500 metres instead of 210 metres (210 metres with a fully aced crew). They could implement multicrew and leave one position for a friend to handle.

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1 minute ago, Juva96 said:

It's a perfect solution, but the AI gunners need to start shooting from 400 or 500 metres instead of 210 metres (210 metres with a fully aced crew). They could implement multicrew and leave one position for a friend to handle.

Well I have almost maxed out my gunner stats on the crew for it. I would say from my perspective the AI gunners seem pretty balanced. You will die if you sit on a bomber unprotected without armament/aim to kill it fast. 

 

Most pragmatic solution is just leave it to AI only gunners. Don't see a problem with this at all. Controlling 3+ gunners at once seems a bit silly and doesn't make sense in sim mode. Problem with fps or tps gunners is it's just more work for the developers. 

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4 minutes ago, Perustaja said:

Well I have almost maxed out my gunner stats on the crew for it. I would say from my perspective the AI gunners seem pretty balanced. You will die if you sit on a bomber unprotected without armament/aim to kill it fast. 

 

Most pragmatic solution is just leave it to AI only gunners. Don't see a problem with this at all. Controlling 3+ gunners at once seems a bit silly and doesn't make sense in sim mode. Problem with fps or tps gunners is it's just more work for the developers. 

The problem starts on EC5 and above, some planes will kill you without your gunners opening fire, even if they sit on your 6, just by being farther than 210 metres. You can try that even with AI bombers during EC games, you only need to kill the fighters above and fire from 600 metres and with enough ammo you can take down a entire formation without getting a single gunner alerted.

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On 05/03/2021 at 05:33, Juva96 said:

The problem starts on EC5 and above, some planes will kill you without your gunners opening fire, even if they sit on your 6, just by being farther than 210 metres. You can try that even with AI bombers during EC games, you only need to kill the fighters above and fire from 600 metres and with enough ammo you can take down a entire formation without getting a single gunner alerted.

AI bombers shoot from farther away than 210 meters, so is not exactly a good example

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27 minutes ago, AngelPiret said:

AI bombers shoot from farther away than 210 meters, so is not exactly a good example

they said 600 metres

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11 minutes ago, AngelPiret said:

Still in range of AI bomber gunners

 No, if you aren't detected they will open fire only if you get a distance bellow 500 metres, once you are detected they will fire up to 700 metres, I already did the test and you can try too.

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Being pragmatic and considering what could be done in time, without the need to completelly re-code the SIM mode, leaving bomber gunners to AI only would be a pretty sensible solution, and it looks like most of the SIM community agrees with that, what can we do to foward it to devs? Should we make a poll? This stuff be something that you would handle in the dev team   @lastGrayAngel? Or it would need to go further up in the WT scale for this kind of changes in SB?
We're desperate for change, we see lots of improvements coming for SB in the next patch and i believe this would be the right time to meddle in this kind of ''more radical'' changes, what can we do to help the dev team?

Edit: Typos

Edited by RBadek
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5 hours ago, RBadek said:

Being pragmatic and considering what could be done in time, without the need to completelly re-code the SIM mode, leaving bomber gunners to AI only would be a pretty sensible solution, and it looks like most of the SIM community agrees with that, what can we do to foward it to devs? Should we make a poll? This stuff be something that you would handle in the dev team   @lastGrayAngel? Or it would need to go further up in the WT scale for this kind of changes in SB?
We're desperate for change, we see lots of improvements coming for SB in the next patch and i believe this would be the right time to meddle in this kind of ''more radical'' changes, what can we do to help the dev team?

Edit: Typos

but they want to keep bomber gameplay at least mildly interesting somehow

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7 hours ago, doflite said:

but they want to keep bomber gameplay at least mildly interesting somehow

Defensive flying, bombing, climbing, and avoiding fighters is a pretty interesting gameplay, people need to understand that bombers are not fighters, and shouldnt be played like so.
A sucessful bomb run should be really well rewarded, but the difficulty of doing it should be on par of dogfighting, today it's simply too easy to play bombers/heavy fighters.
I'm 100% to buffing slightly gunner AI and leaving it to AI only, players should pilot, and use the bomb reticule, thats it.

Edited by RBadek
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