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Simplified profit/earning system in EC missions


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Thank you for all your feedback! Your suggestions and ideas were passed to the development team. They will continue to work on it and when ready, we will again share any news with you.

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30 minutes ago, przybysz86 said:

why? right now i you play only SB and are at rank IV+, you unlock planes 2x? 3x? 5x? faster than you can buy them?

And i do not mean buying all of them. I mean buying the required minimum to unlock next rank or research

That is true. But i don't think we get that much RP in Sim compared to other game modes... i don't know. 
I have a few screenshots of a couple of games... in a good SB game, i made ~48K RP, it was a 2h20min long game, roughly 20.5k RP/hour. in a good AB game, i made 4.900 RP. It was an 8 minute long game, roughly 36k RP/hour.  
Might not be hard numbers, but... 


1714238240_goodAB.thumb.png.3046dda3fbc3 1107054800_goodSB.thumb.png.f487910c84d2

The problem is: SL rewards are extremely low( er than they should be ). 
RP rewards are not extremely high. They are... ok. 

Edited by AWACS_Thunderhea
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7 hours ago, TigrisJK said:

"If you want to stop the abusing, remove the mechanics for abusing. Don't punish people by ruining the rewards."

This.

If you want to keep custom battles instead of keeping Sim primarily historical, fix them so they can't be abused.

- No nation overlap

- A maximum separation of 3 nations (4v1 nations allowed, 5v1 not allowed)

- 1.0-2.0 planes not allowed in matches above EC3 or EC4. (This will remove the ability to continuously spawn a reserve biplane in jets, where you can strafe the field with impugnity on a plane that costs 0 SL to replace)

There are of course other fixes that can be made to Enduring Confrontation, but since this contemplated change is partly to fix abuse, focusing on that for now.

can't agree with one thing, I do enjoy shooting down 6.3 planes with my 2.0 Ki43 Hayabusa  :)

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2 hours ago, BruceLee94 said:

4. Give all Airfields a limit to the amount of bombs they can supply (like 500 tons of bombs or something), and have them replenish with supply convoys that are slow, and fighters/attackers can easily dispatch of. 

  • Remember, these are frontline airfields. They shouldn't have much supplies, and therefore, shouldn't be designed to fuel heavy bombers for the entire session.
  • This will add more objectives for players who use fighters and attackers, and limit how much bombing a team can do.
  • The more of the convoy that is dispatched of, the less bombs that will replenish a base.

Like that, makes targets have a much more direct impact on players than simply a ticket drain. Add some factories in the Hinterland, far away from the front line that load up the convoys and there is a supply chain, factory - convoy - airfield. The further forward the airfield the smaller the supplied armament. So far away airfields are supplied by large bombs and are the bomber starting points. Other bombers will probably try to target those or the factories, but that means longer approaches and higher chance of interception. Additionally, a pure bomber pilot would have to reconsider just flying bombers because if he does not intercept enemy bombers, the supply of bombs to the airfield would stop. Vice versa, a fighter only person would have to either go intercept or go ground pound to prevent the enemy from getting ammo supplies.

 

Still though pissed off at all this bomber haters here, making an elephant out of a mosquito. Most bombers aren't really a major issue and 3rd person view makes sense, because generally you have many crew members in a bomber with good visibility that can report to the pilot where an enemy is even if the pilot cannot see the enemy directly.

 

Best regards,

Phil

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6 hours ago, [email protected] said:

 

I generally feel some of the community's complaints about "compression" are overblown... but Heli EC is definitely a very bad case of it, and it really needs to be fixed. I still haven't actually flown out my Kisarazu Cobra in a proper match yet, I just don't see the point.

 

And for the love of god, make Heli EC RB instead of AB.

an SB one as well :)

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15 minutes ago, Destroyer_Fubuki said:

can't agree with one thing, I do enjoy shooting down 6.3 planes with my 2.0 Ki43 Hayabusa  :)

 

All hail the glorious Hayabusa! But yeah, I definitely agree that putting lower limits on BRs would be a bad idea.

 

 

8 minutes ago, Destroyer_Fubuki said:

an SB one as well :)

 

That would be nice too. So long as the only mode that's actually available isn't the one with weird boosted physics and such, I'd be happy. Nothing against AB (I play AB for tanks) but AB should never be the "main"/showcase mode for a type of vehicle.

Edited by [email protected]
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hmmm im far from an experienced SB pilot, so maybe i can give some suggestions from a newbie's perspective:

 

1. Increase/add rewards for missions, such as escort friendly bombers/attackers. Currently these missions give no/little rewards. You just fly beside those AI and you get nothing regardless if they survived the bombing run

2. Increase frequency of missions like "destroy enemy bombers/survelliance aircraft/attackers". These are great practices for a newbie to train their aiming, evading, and maneuvering. 

3. Reward players slightly for patrolling. In a rather empty room you might fly around for half an hour without seeing a living thing which is a huge time waster, and of course you get nothing out of it. Adding a tiny bit of reward for flying around may encourage them to stay up, but of course it shouldn't be too much since players are doing nothing after all

4. Add more AI fighters across the map, not just around airfields. This will increase the chance of an engagement as one flies around. And shooting down an AI is easier fo a sim beginner than dealing with an experienced player. The reward should not be a lot less than downing a player aircraft

5. For official rooms, include every nation where possible. It is very frustrating when you want to fly a nation's plane but find out that such nation is not included in any rooms. 

6. Increase rewards of the first 1-3 targets one destroys regardless of type. (eg. can either be player controlled, or AI planes, or ground targets). This way people get good rewards even if they faild to get more kills. Sometimes one simply does not have the time/energy to sustain throughout a 3-hour long EC battle. They might quit after 30-60 minutes, and in such time frame they might not get enough kills for a good reward especially if they are inexperienced at tracking targets. 

Edited by AUJason
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Switching rewards from ACTIONS to TIME SPENT is a MONUMENTALLY BAD IDEA

 

From the most basic concept of game theory 101: If you remove the reward for individual actions, then the player has no incentive to do anything. Furthermore, it penalizes players who perform actions. What does this accomplish? It makes players who are proactive turn away from the Enduring Confrontation game mode, and into random battles or even out of the game.

 

Then, if you add time-based reward, the player chooses the obvious method to maximize reward while minimizing effort: Doing nothing except flying around without doing anything whatsoever. It will increase the exploit and zomber problems.

 

 

Why are these ideas even being considered? They are supposed to be solutions to the problem of players exploiting the system with zombers and alt accounts?


I have a better solution:

 

1) INCREASE KILL REWARDS ACROSS THE BOARD. They are VERY unrewarding when compared to mindless zombing. There is no incentive to be a fighter when the rewards are so meager.

 

THEN: Scale kill rewards according to the difference between BR of your vehicle and the enemy's vehicle.

Example: Killing a vehicle of the same BR gives a full (1x)  reward. Killing one 0.3 BR higher gives you 1.3x the rewards. Killing one 0.3 below give 0.7x the rewards. And so on.

 

This would make farming reserve vehicles with alt accounts a tedious and inefficient task the higher up you go in the BRs, while also having the benefit of encouraging players on the bottom BR of a bracket in an EC lobby to not quit just because the enemy team has the top vehicles for that bracket. Think 9.3 fighting 10.7 and such.

 

2) Remove custom lobbies. They are almost exclusively used for farming. Or, if you decide to keep them in, have pre-set nation lineups instead of custom ones. That way, one cannot stack everyone vs a small nation.

 

3) Decrease rewards for airfield bombing, but increase them for minibase bombing. Those are the main objectives after all.

 

4) Make RP also require landing for a 100% reward. This would curb zombing a bit more as a means of RP grinding, since most grinders aren't there for the SL.

 

5) There's no way around this one: Farming and bot accounts need to be weeded out manually according to reports. I know it is tedious and resource consuming, but Gaijin needs to do their part of enforcing their policies for the sake of the game and the players. There have also been incidents of external programs being used to control vehicles without human input, so something has to be done to detect and ban these people.

 

6) Specifically for EC 5/6/7 , airfield defenses need to be increased. Radar SPAA or something. WW2 AAA cannons just don't cut it anymore for dealing with supersonic bombing and strafing runs.

 

7) REMOVE THE STABILIZED THIRD PERSON GUNNER SIGHT FROM BOMBERS IN SIMULATOR MODE. PLEASE. It's unfair for everyone else that has to deal with bombers used as gunships because they have magic stabilization for gunner aim.. Such as Ju-288.

 

8) NERF TICKET DRAIN FROM BOMBING AIRFIELDS. Doing objectives should be the way to drain tickets, not airfield bombing. It's nearly impossible to win vs a entire team of bombers even if you do all the objectives as they pop up.

Edited by LanceLynxx
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If you are talking about the empty rooms with 1 or 2 players farming lions and RP, I think the solution is simple enough: 

  1. Limit the max amount of "bot players" to 2, just for balancing purposes. 
  2. Finish the matches with less than 5 players (3 real players and 2 bot players) in any team :
    • Start a 2 minute countdown when any team reaches <5 players, after the countdown is over the match is over and the team with more tickets wins.
    • Stop spawning mission objectives as soon as the counter begins.
    • After the end of the match, close the room if there aren´t at least 3 real players in each team.
  3. Still permit the players to create custom rooms of any kind but:
    • Deny or at least considerably reduce the rewards (100 SL, 100 RP per every 10 minutes of real gameplay for example).
    • No additional rewards for kills, completed objectives nor winning.
    • Make the custom rooms visible to all players, but also warn the players that the rewards are limited or null, so they can be created and played "just for fun" as any other custom match.
  4. Increase the rewards for:
    • Squads : Squads are  formed of players that are constantly bringing more players to the game, they also tend to stay longer in EC matches, and not to mention that squad play in EC Air SB is simply epic, reward squads with +10% SL or RP; and maybe the bigger the squad, the bigger the reward.
    • Players that stay for more than 50% to 90% of the match, so the matches do really have a player base that tries to carry on.
    • Players that finish a match no matter if winning or losing, so they don´t quit the match whenever they feel it´s already lost.
    • Create awards in the style of Teamwork, that give players that are near to each other a reward for completing a mission or performing certain actions (clearing from foes the area around an Airfield, capturing a point, destroying a base/AF, destroying bomber formations, etc.). That way the players would be encouraged to perform actions that really help the whole team to win (escorting/intercepting other players in bombers or ground attackers, defending a map area etc.)
  5. Allow the SB mode to count for all the events that the other modes count for: Warbonds, Battle Pass, Special Events, Operations, etc.

I make videos for the Spanish-speaking community and I try to promote my favorite game mode that is EC Air SB, and believe me that I´m not the only one to love this game mode :).
We SB players also love the game! We honest players are the smallest but maybe the most faithful community of WT, please take care of EC with love and not with greed.

Air SB.jpg

Edited by Ayauhcoyotl
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   I was browsing the Chinese community, and everyone was very happy when they heard that there is no reward for kills, and time determines the reward. Because they only need to take off and fly automatically.  Then watch TV to get income. This is a very stupid idea . This is a kind of harm to honest players.

1.Stop allowing players to create custom rooms, such as France VS all countries

2.Expand the map for rooms above EC6, and prohibit the use of very small maps like Tunisia for battle

3.Increase the kill rewards. It is much more difficult to kill enemies in SIM than RB AB. They should get better rewards for killing enemies, rather than punish those skilled players.

4.Increase the length of the airport runway and reduce the number of airports, such as 1 main airport and 2 frontline airports, to provide better air defense firepower for the main airports.

SIM is my main mode of playing War Thunder. I hope you will care about this mode instead of destroying it further. There are many loyal players in the SIM community. If you use time to determine the reward, it is a very stupid idea.

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3 hours ago, przybysz86 said:

And then we have zombers who do not care about SL but come here for RP and just destroys any fun for everyone else. Killing same man in same spot 20x per battle gets boring really quickly. I've talked to those guys in game and they all say, they do what maximizes RP gain

 

The goal of A2D is to achieve RP with maximum efficiency. When they try to get a SL, they use rockets, such as F89D, IL28SH, Harrier, Phantom. You might get 500K SL in 3 hours.

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If this mode starts to increase the workload of players, I think it's better to delete this mode,like Air RB EC mode.This mode is complex and difficult to operate, but it can't get the benefits it deserves. No one will like it.And please Gaijin do more for the performance of the game、game experience and fixing BUG,NOT deducing game revenue to disgusting players!

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1 minute ago, tj8m23le said:

If this mode starts to increase the workload of players, I think it's better to delete this mode,like Air RB EC mode.This mode is complex and difficult to operate, but it can't get the benefits it deserves. No one will like it.And please Gaijin do more for the performance of the game、game experience and fixing BUG,NOT deducing game revenue to disgusting players!

My dear, no one lets you play SIM. Also you are not eligible to delete this mode. This mode has a lot of loyal groups, you don’t like it, you can not play.

1 hour ago, LanceLynxx said:

Switching rewards from ACTIONS to TIME SPENT is a MONUMENTALLY BAD IDEA

 

From the most basic concept of game theory 101: If you remove the reward for individual actions, then the player has no incentive to do anything. Furthermore, it penalizes players who perform actions. What does this accomplish? It makes players who are proactive turn away from the Enduring Confrontation game mode, and into random battles or even out of the game.

 

Then, if you add time-based reward, the player chooses the obvious method to maximize reward while minimizing effort: Doing nothing except flying around without doing anything whatsoever. It will increase the exploit and zomber problems.

 

 

Why are these ideas even being considered? They are supposed to be solutions to the problem of players exploiting the system with zombers and alt accounts?


I have a better solution:

 

1) INCREASE KILL REWARDS ACROSS THE BOARD. They are VERY unrewarding when compared to mindless zombing. There is no incentive to be a fighter when the rewards are so meager.

 

THEN: Scale kill rewards according to the difference between BR of your vehicle and the enemy's vehicle.

Example: Killing a vehicle of the same BR gives a full (1x)  reward. Killing one 0.3 BR higher gives you 1.3x the rewards. Killing one 0.3 below give 0.7x the rewards. And so on.

 

This would make farming reserve vehicles with alt accounts a tedious and inefficient task the higher up you go in the BRs, while also having the benefit of encouraging players on the bottom BR of a bracket in an EC lobby to not quit just because the enemy team has the top vehicles for that bracket. Think 9.3 fighting 10.7 and such.

 

2) Remove custom lobbies. They are almost exclusively used for farming. Or, if you decide to keep them in, have pre-set nation lineups instead of custom ones. That way, one cannot stack everyone vs a small nation.

 

3) Decrease rewards for airfield bombing, but increase them for minibase bombing. Those are the main objectives after all.

 

4) Make RP also require landing for a 100% reward. This would curb zombing a bit more as a means of RP grinding, since most grinders aren't there for the SL.

 

5) There's no way around this one: Farming and bot accounts need to be weeded out manually according to reports. I know it is tedious and resource consuming, but Gaijin needs to do their part of enforcing their policies for the sake of the game and the players. There have also been incidents of external programs being used to control vehicles without human input, so something has to be done to detect and ban these people.

 

6) Specifically for EC 5/6/7 , airfield defenses need to be increased. Radar SPAA or something. WW2 AAA cannons just don't cut it anymore for dealing with supersonic bombing and strafing runs.

 

7) REMOVE THE STABILIZED THIRD PERSON GUNNER SIGHT FROM BOMBERS IN SIMULATOR MODE. PLEASE. It's unfair for everyone else that has to deal with bombers used as gunships because they have magic stabilization for gunner aim.. Such as Ju-288.

 

8) NERF TICKET DRAIN FROM BOMBING AIRFIELDS. Doing objectives should be the way to drain tickets, not airfield bombing. It's nearly impossible to win vs a entire team of bombers even if you do all the objectives as they pop up.

 

+1

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I think the change is overall out of proportions compared to the issue, which seems to be players abusing SB EC mechanics for RP gain, mainly by kill farming. I don't a think that a complete economy overhaul, when there's a good chance that it will simply be a heavy rewards nerf, is necessary for solving the issue, especially since having high rewards is beneficial for keeping SB EC populated. In my limited view, the main issues of SB EC related to abuse are the following, none of which necessarily require a complete economy overhaul to fix:

 

1. Rigged match setups

Players misusing the player-created room system to create wildly unbalanced scenarios that are certain to result in victory for one team, by putting a "minor nation" such as France or Italy against all others, ensuring that the other team will have less players. This can be combined with alt-accounts to start the match.

 

Possible solutions:

  • Imposing nation limits on room creation, by for example giving a pre-balanced list of nation selection templates, which players have to choose from.
  • Reducing the difference in rewards between won and lost games. Rigged matches are a result of having +100% victory bonuses in 2-3-hour games: Losing such a game will result in massive reward penalties compared to a won game, so players will do everything in their power to ensure victory in a game mode where the match setup is often more important for victory than the actions of single players. However, removing too much of the incentives for winning could cause players to not care about the objectives anymore.

2. Alt-accounts

Using alt-accounts to start a rigged match, since very few players will generally join the losing team. In more egregious cases, alt-accounts will also be used to fill the entire match, ensuring that no human players will be present to hunt the abusing player down, or shorten the match by going for other objectives.

 

Possible solutions:

  • More actively punishing players engaging in blatant alt-account abuse, especially when they are used to prevent others from joining. However, this is a manual solution, and thus not necessarily effective.
     

3. Kill farming

Using alt-accounts or consenting players spawning on a runway to get large numbers of kills by having the target J out repeteadly, or by strafing or bombing them on the runway. This seems to be the main cause behind the changes.

 

Possible solutions:

  • Developing more sophisticated measures for detecting kill farmers and banning them. For example:
    • Investigating and banning accounts with large numbers of deaths, while having little other activity, especially if the deaths occur on the airfield.
    • Investigating and banning the main accounts benefiting from these repeated deaths.
    • These are manual solutions, which makes them difficult to put into action. I would assume that banning kill farmers has already been unsuccessfully attempted by Gaijin (at least I hope so). Regardless, I personally think that the current approach, which might ruin the economy of the whole game mode, is far too heavy-handed. Still, it would be nice to see it succeed, though my hopes aren't currently too high.

 

4. "Zombers" (only including deliberate crashing, not normal bomber players)

In my view, a "zomber" is a player (whether they are using a fighter, attacker or a bomber) going for enemy bombing points or airfields with the intention of crashing after dropping their bomb load, in order to avoid having to return to their airfield to reload. Before the implementation of only giving 50% rewards before landing, this would allow a player on a suicide mission to gain double the RP compared to a player returning to base, and even now, a "zomber" can gain more RP than a non-suicidal player, who will lose time by landing and repairing. With the current reward system, I don't see it as a massive issue, but more could still be done to completely eliminate incentives for kamikaze bombing. Also, while the effectiveness of gunners is a common complaint in SB, I don't see it as a problem directly related to suicidal bombing, but rather the incomplete adaptation of gunner mechanics to SB.

 

Possible solutions:

  • Further increasing the portion of rewards given on landing, for example to 70%, leaving only 30% for the "zomber". However, this would also further punish normal players getting shot down.
  • To avoid punishing non-suicidal players, only impose the RP and SL penalty, either in part or entirely, on players crashing or getting shot down by base AA, which are by far the most common ways of dying for a "zomber".
    • For example, a player getting shot down by an enemy plane would suffer a -50% penalty, whereas crashing or getting shot down by airfield AA would give a -70% penalty, or alternatively:
    • No penalty for getting killed by a player, but a -70% penalty for crashing or getting killed by base AA. However, this could result in abuse by consenting players.

 

14 hours ago, Ouiche said:

The average level of reward over time in switching to the new system would remain unchanged and will correspond to reward received by players in other game modes.

 

The two statements in the sentence seem to contradict each other, as currently SB EC has higher potential rewards than other game modes, and thus equalizing the rewards per action would mean lowering them overall.

Edited by Exelcia
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25 minutes ago, tj8m23le said:

If this mode starts to increase the workload of players, I think it's better to delete this mode,like Air RB EC mode.This mode is complex and difficult to operate, but it can't get the benefits it deserves. No one will like it.And please Gaijin do more for the performance of the game、game experience and fixing BUG,NOT deducing game revenue to disgusting players!

No. Wrong.

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I am an Air SB player, it is my favorite air mode.   I play arcade too but mostly with the idea in mind to get more planes for sim.

 

 I do not like the sound of this:      "fixed amount of SL and RP per time period when reaching a specific event in the mission instead of a reward for each individual actio n".

 

I feel like with this change players might as well just take off and trim the plane to fly in a circle in the corner of the map, and go afk.

I like to be rewarded for each kill, for what I have done, it motivates me to do the best I can.  I don't care about the objectives except for the way they draw in players to predictable places.

  • Add a fixed award for bombing objectives if you want but keep rewards for individual kills in addition to that.   
    • Ex:     Final Reward = (fixed team reward for bombed targets) + (rewards for my air kills)      Where "rewards for my air kills"  is not less than the current reward per air kill we have right now.

 

I also have some other recommendations:

  • Please allow switching between planes and loadouts for free if we land safely.  Right now I might as well just crash.
  • Reward the player for bailing out over friendly territory vs enemy territory.
  • Longer runways for jets.
  • More interesting bomb targets. (Bridges, Factories, Trains)
  • Feedback in game for RP eared would be nice
  • Please allow a player to leave a SB match and change aircraft lineup, or just allow players to fly anything they own in SB.   Sometimes I have taken the wrong preset into SB and been locked out for the rest of the match.
  • Allow players to switch sides if the opposing team has fewer players and is loosing.   I would be willing to switch sides to balance the team sizes mid game but I cannot.

 

 

Edited by Rataz
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Harsh changes to the game to punish those who come for the fight ...

FIX

Player created rooms generate no RP/SLs.  Nor do they cost you in repairs....  Boom! Farmers done...they won't roll into real EC's... so easiest fastest fix.  Still can create rooms.  Still can have the setup of your choice (there are some good player created rooms which draw a crowd), and it solves the farming problem.

 

NOT A FIX

Taking away incentive to excel vs becoming one of the sheep is not how you promote Sim.   Sim should be inherently harder than RB.  RB should be harder than Arcade.  If Sim is too hard for you...stay away from heat lamps...you're going to melt!   If getting killed while you learn is frustrating...I agree.   Player created rooms can be used to get better so you don't lose all your SL's.  Low population rooms can still be used for the guys who need to get some SL's....

ALTERNATIVES

Allow players to create missions in EC where others can join in.  “Bombers going to xx target.  Need 2 bombers and 4 escorts”  Click on Mission tab, select the slot you want and now you get "squaded up". 


“CAS support needed at  xx grid.  Need 2 CAS aircraft. 2 Caps/escorts”  just as some examples.  So mini objectives to support larger objectives.....vs a gaggle running around.

 

Thoughts

Remove the skill requirement and replace with time played and you will find SIM is dead....IL-2 will gain quite a few more serious players.

It’s about the fight...not just droning around... that is MS Flight sim.

Edited by Dobs_
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7 hours ago, LostF0X said:

Another step... in the wrong direction.

Ec is dying, the economy was already broken and with all your nice moves it has to get even worst I'm afraid. 

 

EC was dying and now Gaijin will simply put an end to this sick old man's misery :lol2:

I am afraid at this point I won't even need P-51A, I guess we all can go home, this is it, this is the end my friend.
I never thought it would have ended without my beloved P-51A :crying:

This is my farewell song: https://youtu.be/VScSEXRwUqQ  o7 :salute:

 

Edited by AdelWolf
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Gaijin is only looking for a solution to a "problem" that only affects them: namely people earning too much SL and RP in a battle.

 

That's it.

 

People coordinating are such a miniscule proportion of the playerbase and with this solution you are going to punish everyone, leading to players who were decisive for victory earning way less than before. Which might be the real objective after all.

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We can't tell much about how good this is without actual details.

 

I can say though that the reward for winning is a terrible idea in a long form match where people should be able to leave early or join late. It heavily promotes quitting on the losing team in hopes that your next match is lucky. Please remove it.

 

 

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The only thing I would ask is for a measure that does not affect what a honest player can get in rewards. Otherwise honest players would just be punished in their RP SL gains by the farming dishonest players. 

 

I am looking forward for the details that will be published as I am yet uncertain if this will be beneficial or prejudicial for the honest sim players. 

 

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I can't see a way this will get implemented in which it won't hurt honest players. You're essentially capping a max reward based on time, meaning people who perform excellent, or have a great fight in a shorter span of time, won't be rewarded for it.

I'd love to know more about how this will work, but I'm very hesitant to call this a good change.

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My proposed changes to EC:

1) Remove the ability for players to create rooms with the exception of Gaijin content partners.
2) Perform a critical analysis on current battle ratings and how they correlate to meta gaming mechanics in EC.
3) Create a more comprehensive and informational dialogue on EC mechanics. (i.e. this objective will award x amount of points or y amount of points with percentile completion.) This documentation should be easily accessible to any player joining the game. 
4) If step 3 is adhered to, then step 4 should inform players of their impact on the mission real time. Example: Player escorts friendly bombers to target, target destroyed, player escorts bombers to egress map boundary. The player performing the action should receive live updates stating they are "in escort proximity" and should acquire SL & RP bonuses for the action, as well as a small score benefit in game for playing the objective. 

These 4 steps are in my opinion, general steps in the right direction. However I'll probably get some negative feedback to this, but I'm going to throw it out there...
Hardcore Sim Mode Proposition:
Step 5) With the removal of player created rooms, many players will still want a more casual game to play. I understand that currently the majority of the player created rooms are for bombers to farm, and newer pilots to practice. 

With the removal of player created rooms.. create two new brackets in sim. Keep the current EC as a beginner / intermediate version of EC, but then... create a second set of games that feature higher rewards, These lobbies are for the true simmers. These lobbies are for the people who started the game years ago.. played AB.. played RB.. and grew into sim. Gaijin.. You're going to have to fix the gauges.. and the gun counters.. and the low render skin bugs brought by New Power. There will be no HUD, no hand holding.. pure simulator combat. I don't believe this would be difficult, many of the hurdles are already done with standard EC scripting. 

I am aware that the 5th step is controversial, however I believe my first 4 stated steps would be a great start in developing the game mode to be more inclusive and informative. Either way I am not upset with the game, I've spent over 2000 hours in the game as of right now. I have enjoyed it, and met a lot of fine people, but I would be a liar if I stated I wasn't awaiting a proper successor. One patch note on economic changes will not change the track record you have established for yourselves. 

-Zarg 

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10 hours ago, AWACS_Thunderhea said:

But i don't think we get that much RP in Sim compared to other game modes... i don't know. 

I have talked to many zombers trying to understand why they do what they do. Answer is 99% of time: RP.

And those are guys who do not normally fly SB - they just come to us to to their <auto-censored> because it gives them many times more RP per hour than RB (according to them).

As for fighter players: I can use premium jet and premium account go the all the rank V or most of the rank VI unlocked in 2-3 battles.

I know one player who managed to get Draken in less than 48hrs since Swedish tree was introduced and he is purely fighter pilot as far as I can tell.

I'd say RP rewards are much higher than say RB. And in general I do get it. you play harder mode you progress faster and you don't have to buy every single plane but SB allows you to rush to your fav. machine and play it (it's unrealistic to assume that avg player will master every single plane in every tree as they progress - especially in sim).

Problem is that it invites all the zomber vermin.

As for SL - I think that reward per hour is not bad as such as long as it's not only reward. That way players with less experienced who get slapped a lot will still get some SL and that's fine. If there is kill bonus on top of that then people will more kills will get more SL .

Problem remains that we do not get refunds for planes. Yes we do get +100% SL bonus for landing but that does not solve the problem that is mentioned in the OP: what if I do not meet anyone. I guesshaving some reward for flying is one way to do it but I'd also strongly encourage Gj to consider SL refund if plane survives and I j-out or game ends (of course if I want to take it back I have to pay again just like it is with SP) This way, even if game ends 30s after I join (despite it having 120-120k pts) I suddenly won't lose 20-30-50k. Also when I grind SP for better planes I'd be able to take something decent knowing that if I survive and switch to higher BR plane, I won't lose money

To play anything above base BR you have to pay for at least 2 planes, maybe more.There is no way around it and it can get very expensive often discouraging taking higher BR plane when battle is about to end because I know i won't make money back

Edited by przybysz86
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Some peoples are saying that they don't care about reward and all they want is having fun in simulator. If Gaijin really remove economy from simulator or make it equal to other modes they won't say the same words again and they will without any doubt demand simulator great economy back or they will leave simulator forever.

Edited by Mahd1378
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