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Simplified profit/earning system in EC missions


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Thank you for all your feedback! Your suggestions and ideas were passed to the development team. They will continue to work on it and when ready, we will again share any news with you.

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1 minute ago, [email protected] said:

 

I generally feel some of the community's complaints about "compression" are overblown... but Heli EC is definitely a very bad case of it, and it really needs to be fixed. I still haven't actually flown out my Kisarazu Cobra in a proper match yet, I just don't see the point.

 

And for the love of god, make Heli EC RB instead of AB.

The new City map it's actually really good for lower tier helies. Ka-50 spam can't do a lot there, but one thing I can't figure out is why in heli EC open maps still dominate and one or zero battles are in new city map.
And one more thing I saw it only twice a week ago - below 9.7BR heli battles, where are they now?!?

 

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Less zombers, less farmers, less abuse EC (exemple usa vs italy only), it's always better. Real AAA on airfield in cold war era EC and will be good.

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I think this is a start. But for some cases like Helicopter EC this reward system will still not fully discourage unfair gameplay. Specifically to Heli EC there needs to be B.R. implications into the matchmaking, a 8.3 heli shouldn't be versing a KA-50. But I do like this new concept and am exited to see how it affects gameplay with teams.

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Personally, I think this update will be a double edge sword.

  1. First of all, while simplifying the reward system do decrease the number of abusers;
  2. However, most of the people overlook the fact that, simplifying the reward system - using time and missions as a reward of RP and SL but not kills/player actions, will decrease the motivation of other players to actually participate in the game.

This is very simple to understand. Imagine this is AB/RB match, if time is all that matters for the rewards, players will simply try to drag the battles as long as possible. If I am playing a battle and mainly time determines my final reward, I will simply sit back behind the frontlines and attempts to drag the match as long as possible to maximize profits. Seriously, what is the point of playing and carrying your team so hard when in the end you gets similar amount of RP and SL with them? I will literally sit back and play passive, since actively earning kills doesn't gives anything in return.

 

Imaging I sit back relaxed, earning 2 kills in the entire battle. While you, struggle with the enemy team, get 10+ kills, rushing between caps to carry me (and the rest of the team) to victory. In the end, we all get the same RP and SL. Trust me, you will ends up playing passively in battles sooner or later as well.

 

I think bring attention and fix the helicopter EC will actually bring more overall positives instead.

Edited by Exophobia
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There would be an even easier fix: ban rewards in player made Sim rooms. Problem solved. No impact whatsoever on the legit players.

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IMHO,the farming issues-atleast in part-could be fixed like following,instead of trying to rework the reward system:

 

-For people abusing the lobbies by setting up lopsided matchups (ex Japan vs everyone else:

Limit the matchup options to historical ones,similar to how it works for tanks,just without the timed rotation.Set up fixed rooms that change map every match with those matchup options and set it up so that new rooms automatically get created when the lobby is full,or alternatively continue allowing players to create their own rooms,but limit the matchup options that can be chosen.

This may also make balancing lineups a bit easier,since the data is going to be more consistent due to less possible combinations of aircraft fighting each other.

 

-For people abusing the lobby by having alts/friends/other cooperating players on the enemy team and farming them over and over:

 

The characteristic of this is that people will kill the same player (sometimes two,aswell,i´ve seen that happen before) over and over again in a very short timeframe.

Now,given that markers are not a thing in SB,making it harder to "hunt" a specific player,and that when people get strafed on their airfield,they will usually either pick another airfield or wait a bit before respawning,situations like the same player shooting down the same enemy player i.e. 12 times in 20 minutes are not very likely to happen.

 

A possible solution here would be to implement a automated system that checks if such a thing occurs.

The basic function of this would more look like this: "If player X kills enemy player Y Z amount of times in a given timeframe (i.e. the aformentioned average of 12 times in 20 minutes),issue a strike to player X and remove the player from the lobby with a warning message.If the player repeats this 3 times within a given timeframe,suspend the player´s account (for what duraction would be for Gaijin to decide)."

 

Beyond this,some adjustments to the rewards could be made,though-for example it generally seems to be far more reward for a given effort compared to going for other players (atleast,thats the impression i get),but it seems to be more of a case of "figher reward too low" than "bomber reward too high".

 

 

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Just now, Kasukaru said:

There would be an even easier fix: ban rewards in player made Sim rooms. Problem solved. No impact whatsoever on the legit players.

Well, this will turn air EC into a match very very similar to helicopter EC. Players quit matches when they are losing due to lower rewards, and when a new player look for a match, the matchmaker puts the new player into losing match again, cycle repeats itself.

 

I would suggest that time-dependent reward system only applies for player created rooms, so this decrease the abuser in some ways. However, I think rooms created by matchmaker itself will have significantly more rewards - kills, player action based. This will balance the issue. I mean, you can use player-created rooms, but for less reward. Or play matchmaker EC battles, for higher reward gains.

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5 hours ago, Ouiche said:

Don't hesitate to leave your feedback!

The basic principle of games like wt is getting rewards for exact actions and achievements.
Abandoning this in favour of "fixed reward for time spent in game" system looks like degradation for me. Even if actual rewards will increase.

It's just extremely lazy gamedesign.

Edited by HOPPING_PONY
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5 hours ago, Ouiche said:

These proposed changes are intended to help honest players to choose mission objectives based on personal interest rather than possible profit. It should negate the opportunity for dishonest players to use this game mode for their own selfish purposes.

What about configuring the mission/game the way that will reward honest players?

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1. dont make the economy worth as it already is. you ***** up the eco system in 2018 when then most player left sim ec.  getting rid of exploiters by changing eco system mean that all will earn even less. 
2. simple dissalow the possiblity to open sim ec matches by players for the moment.
3. make bombers sim. by that i mean give them a sim flight modle. remove god mode. remove gun view. remove full stab gunners. remobe airspawns. 
4. implment new airfields so the bombers dont need the airspawn.
5. fix aa problem so you cant strave the enemy airfield by will as long you wnat in the higher tiers.
6. make fighters more profitable then bombers. 
7. change the mechanic to win, that a bomber may help to win, but a team full of "just" bombers cant win.

and then start reading forum, reedit or watch youtube. enough example of how to exploit in sim ec. to stay in match afk on airfield. use rockets one what targets to get 35464564 points. 
this problems will not be fixed by a reward change. reward change to less income will just lead to make it unplayable for others too.  so yes, that the worst post on the topic i had in mind,  only can end in a total desaster. 
its operating the sympthoms and not the reasons. at the end Operation gelungen, Patient tod.

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11 minutes ago, creature259 said:

rewards by time spend in game not by kill rewards..
Aight  ill hop in my bomber add 3 hours of fuel. climb to space...cruise controll.....watch TV.
 

 

I fear that exactly this will happen

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    自内你们和中国的腾讯公司合作以后。以前过节送的金鹰和载具都不再送了。游戏内部开始有抽奖内容。游戏结算给的经验和银币越来越少。这样可以促进玩家消费。可是如果导致玩家只能被迫的每天去创造全真模式游戏来获取经验和银币。缺没办法更好的体验游戏。我从2012年开始玩这个游戏。断断续续玩到现在。我还他们是一些新手。可是在只玩一个国家的载具的时候,他们经常买完新的载具以后,连修理费都没有。我喜欢这个游戏。喜欢在战争雷霆里面和朋友一起体验飞行的乐趣。可是现在我们每天熬夜都在全真模拟的模式里用轰炸机不停的轰炸机场。因为我们买不起新飞机。也修不起飞起。这一点乐趣都没有。我希望你们能够增加每一局游戏的经验和银币奖励。或者起码要降低修理费。难道你们涉及了那么多载具。不是让玩家使用使用的?我现在每天都在飞A2D堪培拉鬼怪。然后存够钱等圣诞节或胜利日的时候打折才可以买新的载具。你们可以多出一些联队专用。小组专用的涂装来出售,设计3条4条5条的飞行特技烟雾来出售。但是你首先要让我修的起飞机。特别是对于这局游戏里失败的一方。他们有些可能是新手如果连飞机都修不起,他们可能就会放弃这个游戏了。我还是喜欢和可以开心的体验飞行的乐趣。而不是不停得用轰炸机去赚取修理费。那样这个游戏的人只会越来越少。    另外希望可以多出点中系的载具和金币载具和涂装。还有头像图片。我观察到之前有个带有五星红旗的坦克驾驶员头像消失了。我明白。这就是中国特色。但是其他的还是可以出的。希望井盖和战争雷霆越来越好。

Edited by _Fog_
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Hinyanawi_Tenshi (Posted )

This is an English speaking section, post after translating please.
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4 hours ago, Defbond said:
  1. Increase rewards for shooting down planes and doing objectives.
  2. Actually ban people who are killing their alt-accounts, there are more than enough reports about this I mean I just reported one today who has been doing this for MONTHS.
  3. Remove spawn costs, if you die you pay the full repair cost, with the option of using 1 backup. 
  4. Every time we have this type of discussion rewards are nerfed and the population dwindles, before you guys go foaming at the mouth about zombers and how they ruin the game just remember that if they leave EC rooms will be empty since they make up for half the players present. Just make their presence less of an influence on the outcome of the game.
  5. "we are considering options to simplify the economy system in EC missions by adding a fixed amount of SL and RP per time period when reaching a specific event in the mission instead of a reward for each individual action."
    This is a terrible idea, not only will you limit the rewards for those abusing EC, but you will also be limiting rewards for those who are the most successful and carry their team or get many kills.
    Do not punish the most succesul players because you are unable to moderate your own game even after receiving literally thousands of reports about the abuse!
     
  6. The rewards in EC are already lower than they are if you were to play RB, the entire SL modifier is a lie even though it shows higher in SB you get less, fix this, ban those farming their alt accounts and stop allowing hoardes of zombers to determine the outcome of game where they are dying 20+ times yet still win by zerg rushing the entire map.
  7. Allow SB players to participate in warbonds and events, the easiest way to fix EC is to reward those who fly skillfully while punishing those who die often because they are on kamikaze autopilot. There is no excuse that a player who is investing hundreds or thousands in hardware (and is more likely to invest in your game) to be making less SL in SB where they actually have to control the plane than someone using a $10 mouse in AB/RB. Reward those who are skilled in SB instead of rewarding RB refugees who only use this mode to exploit their way for some easy cash while also getting gyro stabilized mouse turrets, which are just a slap in the face to someone who is desperately fighting to control their aircraft using joystick/mouse j/s in order to aim. 

Totally agree!

 

Actually, as a PS4 player I play mostly EC. There are lots of good suggestions, like simply improve-increase the SL gains from the player actions, especially at EC7-Top Tier. Then decreasing the spawn time of the BR 10.7 should be also decreased (instead of 30 minutes, lets 20) together with improved AA defence near airfields (The current ones are useless against jet fighters therefore makes it easier for the enemy team spawn camping.

 

Additionally, maybe awacs system might be implemented again for the top tier battles (at least near the friendly airfields, so that the teams might have the chance to fight back against the spawn campers).

 

And finally, please fix the constant crashinfg and texture disappearing problems of console player. Since new power update, almost all console players suffer because of these problems.

Edited by [email protected]

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Lol, so anyone who actually tries to survive and get some progress in the completely broken economy this game has and maybe even have a bit of fun (shocking) is called DISHONEST??! Nice one, Gaijin!

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3 minutes ago, jackTIGR said:

Lol, so anyone who actually tries to survive and get some progress in the completely broken economy this game has and maybe even have a bit of fun (shocking) is called DISHONEST??! Nice one, Gaijin!

Gamers gaming a game. You hate to see it. 

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To Gaijin: it's not boosters that are the problem, the problem is the reason why they exist in the first place: broken economy and painfully slow progression and multitude of speed-bumps for grind that are everywhere.

 

It literally takes years to grind out a big tree if you're a new player and don't use premium. It should not be like that.

 

If the game was more rewarding to play (revolutionary thought, I know) and economy actually made it possible to play any tier without losses, especially top tier, even without premium time, then boosters wouldn't exist in the first place.

 

Just to illustrate a problem: heli EC (one of the biggest problems that Gaijin never tried to fix) is so unrewarding to play that players rather just take helicopters into ground battles, first-spawn with rockets, do a strike, die and go into next battle, because it gives more RP than wasting an hour or two pounding ground targets (and dying to p2w helis). By using a 300% booster, playing for almost an hour and killing almost 60 ground targets, together with 14 air kills, i got only 30k rp vs a quick tank RB first-spaw-heli assault with 1 tank kill and defeat that netted me 4k RP (for a playtime of less than 1 minute).

Edited by jackTIGR
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Here is what Gaijin is most likely going to do.

-Decrease the rewards across the board.

-Keep the mechanics for bomber abusing.
-Add convoluted(NOT simplified) and buggy new system to calculate the lower rewards.
-Not fix the original problems and make it so even more abusing the system happens.



 

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I will try to remain as brief as possible.


With regards to EC the most prominent one that comes to mind is Helicopter as it is the most played for its effective research for helicopters as people cannot always have an increased presence in ground forces with these vehicles. Helicopters are broken into two groups 1.those that HAVE the ability to fight other helicopters and 2. those that HAVE NOT the ability to fight other helicopters. Now the reason ridiculous acts of rigged combat take place is that those who do not have the capable helicopters who want to progress have to provide an avenue for which they can grind upgrades and the next helicopter. Normal ground targets do not suffice and player kills are very much the only way to make gains. The only gain from taking on special ground targets is ticket depletion which will only benefit those who win and had a high score with regards to killing players. Now only the premium and the odd lot of top tier helicopters that are present are more of the capable helicopters with the ability to kill other helicopters in a SUSTAINABLE MANNER will be the only group to profit from this. Nations like France, Britain, Japan, Germany, and USSR (Figure 1 - 5.) where their RESERVE helicopters are almost completely incapable of an air to air fight that is already taking place and will be made INCREASINGLY WORSE by the new system. The issue with this is it prevents any interest in playing in the game mode, an ill mistake that could easily punish the few that regularly attempt to grind this way. Additionally this measure will drive away many who try out the EC game mode for branching out their interests.

 

Team gameplay we all believe in, no doubt about it. Now I am not about to criticize this idea without providing solutions myself. Increasing the value of ground units encouraging this for other helicopters who are optimized for such an attack mode will gain from this and create an ecosystem such is in normal air battles. The example being attackers and bombers will engage ground targets at their own gain and risk from fighters, such an ecosystem should base itself in helicopter EC. Maps like City where a close quarters fight can be generated and provide long distance cover from air to air superiority helicopters should be increased. Rank/Br protection should be in place, helicopters like the reserve as previously mentioned should be protected from the the high tier and high BR premiums. This protection system in its current extent is present but in a poor manner (Figure 6.), premium high tier helicopters are unaffected by this as they have a rank reduction (Figure 7.) to prevent the image that they are buying their way to the top ;) . Br should be heavily considered as it paints the insulting picture that an 8.0 will always have the encounter of a 10.3 helicopter guaranteed. 
To be brief about my points above.

  • BAD SYSTEM ONLY REWARDS AIR TO AIR CAPABLE HELICOPTERS 
  • ECOSYSTEM FOR RESERVE AND AFFLICTED HELICOPTERS NEEDS FORMATION
  • RANK PROTECTIONS EXTENDED TO THE FIRST RANK OF HELICOPTERS

I am open to fine tune of these thoughts, all ideas need refining. As to the original idea above from Ouiche (no offense) I am 100% against it. Every molecule in my body disagrees with it for what I had to endure and witness playing it.

 

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Always thank you for your support :salute:


Figures for reference to be added and referenced from above.

Figure 1. French helicopter RESERVE H-34 (below)

1513033288_Figure1..thumb.png.02af92d772
Figure 2. Britain helicopter RESERVE Scout AH.Mk.1 (below)

1887607705_Figure2..thumb.png.99e9bb1beb
Figure 3. Japan helicopter RESERVE (Japan) UH-1B Hiyodori (below)

794107738_Figure3..thumb.png.f9ab8720a75
Figure 4. Germany helicopter RESERVE (Germany) SA.313B Alouette II (below)

1268909726_Figure4..thumb.png.c5a6e57aa4

Figure 5. USSR helicopter RESERVE Mi-4AV (below)

1308993422_Figure5..thumb.png.f6b3b3f2a4
Figure 6. Rank protection not stopping rank VI premiums from encountering reserves in rank V (below)

860493897_Figure6..thumb.png.837a8c39ffc

Figure 7. Ka-50 at 10.3 rank VI not blocked by rank restrictions (below)

344944472_Figure7..thumb.png.c7dadad0d9c

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Official007
typos, grammar
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6 hours ago, Ouiche said:

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EC missions (all of them) differ from other game modes because of their duration (session time), respawns and game room (lobby) mechanics. 

The extended duration of the mission and low concentration of gameplay actions results in a large reward for each individual action. The system of multiple respawns is implemented through a ‘cost’ for each fly out and not vehicle loss. Both of these points make the economy system noticeably more difficult to set up and understand for players - a player when respawning in a vehicle initially has a shortage of game currency and then has to do without reward for a lengthy period in search of a suitable target.

At the same time, game room/lobby mechanics can be used by dishonest players to create ‘rigged’ battles where they can repeatedly destroy the same cooperating enemy and as the actual destruction of that enemy is a fairly infrequent event in EC, the reward for it is set high.

To solve this issue, we are considering options to simplify the economy system in EC missions by adding a fixed amount of SL and RP per time period when reaching a specific event in the mission (not taking into account time on the airfield - a more detailed description will be published separately) instead of a reward for each individual action. However, the bonus reward for winning a mission and the half reward for returning to an airfield would remain unchanged. The average level of reward over time in switching to the new system would remain unchanged and will correspond to reward received by players in other game modes.

These proposed changes are intended to help honest players to choose mission objectives based on personal interest rather than possible profit. It should negate the opportunity for dishonest players to use this game mode for their own selfish purposes.

Don't hesitate to leave your feedback!

I would like them to change the br for example the br of 3.0 one could fight in 3.7 and in 3.7 fight up to 3.0 and not as they are that 3.7 fights with a 4.7 vehicle neither the projectiles nor the armor works for those tanks

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