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Simplified profit/earning system in EC missions


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Thank you for all your feedback! Your suggestions and ideas were passed to the development team. They will continue to work on it and when ready, we will again share any news with you.

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8 minutes ago, RideR2 said:

Getting a joystick is not a problem for them, they just don't want them, I saw many farmers and mouse joystick players that fly very expensive premium planes and if they can afford for example the AV-8A which costs 60 euro or premium planes for 6000-8000 GE which is like 30-45 euro (this is how much cost planes from EC5-7) then they should be able to afford a cheap joystick too (I use only the T.16000M, the old one) but they don't want to buy it, they just prefer to use SB EC as a game mode where you can get lots of SL and RB by zombering to either research a new plane (you can find lots of them right after a major patch release) or modifications to for example the F-4C.
 

 

6 minutes ago, ivica70 said:

 

This! Bad alibi not to have money to buy a stick

 

Can you not be so toxic towards mouse players and overgeneralize them together with abusers?

I have a cheap joystick and still prefer flying with a mouse. I'm better with a mouse and don't like having to make space for a joystick and get/remove it everytime I switch from WarThunder Air SB to doing other things on my PC.

Edited by TinyTinkerTank
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2 minutes ago, ivica70 said:

 

This is true. The grind towards Jets if you want to play them is an inhuman and very painful path...

Yep. If we're to solely blame anyone for the abuse, it's Gaijin themselves. Make a less abusive and manipulative game economy, people would likely abuse it less because they wouldn't NEED to. 

I mainly play SB because I've got VR, I have immense fun dogfighting against other fighters in VR. But god damn does jet combat MELT your SL balance. No one can seriously look at the present state of EC and say it is at all suitable.

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1 minute ago, TinyTinkerTank said:

 

 

Can you not be so toxic towards mouse players and overgeneralize them together with abusers?

I have a cheap joystick and still prefer flying with a mouse. I'm better with a mouse and don't like having to make space for a joystick and get/remove it everytime I switch from WarThunder Air SB to doing other things on my PC.

 

Don't get me wrong, but I am only the opinion that everyone who can buy a premium jet for 60 Euros can also buy a stick or gamepad for 60 Euro. By the way I am sometimes also playing just using the mouse, if I have not that much time. I have to remove my Joystick and the pedals every time I am not playing and sometimes for a quick game it is more comfortable to use just the mouse

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1 minute ago, ivica70 said:

 

Don't get me wrong, but I am only the opinion that everyone who can buy a premium jet for 60 Euros can also buy a stick or gamepad for 60 Euro. By the way I am sometimes also playing just using the mouse, if I have not that much time. I have to remove my Joystick and the pedals every time I am not playing and sometimes for a quick game it is more comfortable to use just the mouse

Sure they could buy it. But maybe they still prefer playing with a mouse. Also a gamepad is probably worse than a mouse.

Maybe with a really good joystick an a lot of training I would prefer it, but there would still be the factor of changing my setup all the time.

 

Anyway that's not really the topic.

AI Airfield AA buff when?

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28 minutes ago, ivica70 said:

 

Normal human behavior. Who wants to stay on a losing team?

The issue is that since many players are there for reward, they leave as soon as they see the balance tip towards the enemy, and with less players, that team has less chance of pulling things back, leading to more players leaving, making for boring matches where one team dominates the other, whereas it could be an interesting fight all the way to the end with no way to tell who's going to win

 

Edited by Joeythesheep
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Just now, Joeythesheep said:

The issue is that since many players are there for reward, they leave as soon as they see the balance tip towards the enemy, and with less players, that team has less chance of pulling things back, leading to more players leaving, making for boring matches where one team dominates the other

 

The broken economy is playing here a crucial role in this behavior similar to the behavior of players in High Tier Ground RB. The problem that you will lose this enormous amount of SLs by losing the game has the psychological effect that players tend to leave the games instead of trying to turn the tides and maybe win the game in the end! 

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I disagree with removing custom lobbies until maps like ec malta come out for air sim. Italy a naval power that focused on antishipping (that misses it's 160kg c.s. bomb and it's motobomba fff!)doesn't have any med. Theater maps that have ships. Sicily onlu has a carrier and 2 dd. If they added ships to tunisia and sicily(and flip the map to be north axis south allies like irl) like port Moresby and opened up the already existent ec malta then I could see doing it 

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25 minutes ago, SpicysaucedHD said:

Do you all have only your friggin balance in mind when firing up sim? Really? 

You can't enjoy sim if you can't deploy the planes that you like. And before you say, don't be so crybaby, there's planes that only costs 3k SL to spawn, I have 2k SL because I'm not good enough to make money on EC. I can't enjoy not get better because the mode is just a SL drain

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2 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

 

What we really need is for AI AA to actually be projectiles, like how ship AA works, instead of what is currently just a "randomly take damage to your whole plane" zone of airspace.

That would also be nice but getting rid of airfield strafers is for me the most important aspect.

These magical bullets that I already mentioned are also stupid though. I see the AAA firing but don't see at what and suddenly my left wing gets hit by a milk truck and is gone.

Edited by TinyTinkerTank
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1 minute ago, [email protected] said:

 

What we really need is for AI AA to actually be projectiles, like how ship AA works, instead of what is currently just a "randomly take damage to your whole plane" zone of airspace.

That's deffinately something I'd like to see, but how horribly ineffective it is once you get up to higher tiers definitely needs to be addressed 

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Gaijin, do the most logical thing. Remove the player created rooms from EC and make a limited amount of running more historically realistic events for each tier only enough that when one is finishing the other is starting at each tier. 
-This will also create more filled matches, more people making and losing money. Which is what you want for your revenue no?

-Those bomber spammers will lesson since they will die more to people who actually play honestly.

-Also would be nice to fix those bomber gunners and make them like those on attackers...


If you want to stop the abusing, remove the mechanics for abusing. Don't punish people by ruining the rewards.
 

My prediction is that you(Gaijin) will absolutely ruin it even further though lol.

Edited by PakistanHound
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9 minutes ago, angelomorte said:

I disagree with removing custom lobbies until maps like ec malta come out for air sim. Italy a naval power that focused on antishipping (that misses it's 160kg c.s. bomb and it's motobomba fff!)doesn't have any med. Theater maps that have ships. Sicily onlu has a carrier and 2 dd. If they added ships to tunisia and sicily(and flip the map to be north axis south allies like irl) like port Moresby and opened up the already existent ec malta then I could see doing it 

 

SBEC does not have enough players. It is better to concentrate more players in a few rooms.

Cancel the impact of winning or losing on income, and cancel the  restriction on the  balance of player numbers. Doing so may help to concentrate a large number of players on a map to increase the intensity of engagement.

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3 minutes ago, SaratogaCV60 said:

 

 

SBEC does not have enough players. It is better to concentrate more players in a few rooms.

Cancel the impact of winning or losing on income, and cancel the  restriction on the  balance of player numbers. Doing so may help to concentrate a large number of players on a map to increase the intensity of engagement.

That's fine but it's no excuse for italy having to play a grand total of 0 maps focused on naval engagements which consisted of about 90% of the warfare italy was engaged in. Heck sicily was a NAVAL invasion. They even already made ec malta if only they would open it to sim ec.

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"If you want to stop the abusing, remove the mechanics for abusing. Don't punish people by ruining the rewards."

This.

If you want to keep custom battles instead of keeping Sim primarily historical, fix them so they can't be abused.

- No nation overlap

- A maximum separation of 3 nations (4v1 nations allowed, 5v1 not allowed)

- 1.0-2.0 planes not allowed in matches above EC3 or EC4. (This will remove the ability to continuously spawn a reserve biplane in jets, where you can strafe the field with impugnity on a plane that costs 0 SL to replace)

There are of course other fixes that can be made to Enduring Confrontation, but since this contemplated change is partly to fix abuse, focusing on that for now.

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Quote

 we are considering options to simplify the economy system in EC missions by adding a fixed amount of SL and RP per time period when reaching a specific event in the mission (not taking into account time on the airfield - a more detailed description will be published separately) instead of a reward for each individual action


This sounds terrible, honestly. 

I really appreciate the fact that Gaijin is looking forward to fixing Sim EC economy, i really do... but this doesn't sound good at all. 

 

Spoiler
3 hours ago, Gawr_Gura said:

This will only hurt the honest players in the end, ultimately making the game mode not even worth playing.

The current system is fine, i rather not earn little SL for putting in an hours work of game play time.

Just have a separate report button for EC saying this person may be exploiting with another user and have it reviewed.

You could also have a system where people can watch replays players have reports in and if enough players agree on one thing, more serious moderation actions should be handed down.

 

Example Concept

 

You visit the replay section of the website.

You click a replay

From here you see the Reported Players

Reveal hidden contents

R9ntoi6.png

You can then view those two players in game, and see if those reports are valid.

If the claims are in faith to be true or false, you can say +/- 1 to these reports,

Example Here:

Reveal hidden contents

MwrE0X3.png

 

 

4EYDHwJ.png

and when a thresh hold of lets say minimally speaking, 50/75 other players validate the report, then it is passed off to more dedicated moderators for final review.

If the final review shows that they have foul play, those who took their time to report and validate the reports get a rep point or something, and after a certain amount of points

for being a trusted reporter and keeping the game safe, you get decal or title or some sort of small reward for helping keeping the game safe.

It's hard to abuse such system too as troll reports can easily be outed, and troll +/- 1s can be easily outed as well since the masses will ultimately tell the real stuff from fake.

Also if the outed trolls show, just have a special switch to block them from validating stuff in the future as they will ultimately be dishonest anyway.

 

I've seen this system on other games, and has worked well, I do not see why it wouldn't work in war thunder.

 

Rather than destroying a already in trouble game mode, help clean the filth out of it and make it a better place.

 

 


+1.

 

Spoiler
3 hours ago, Defbond said:
  1. Increase rewards for shooting down planes and doing objectives.
  2. Actually ban people who are killing their alt-accounts, there are more than enough reports about this I mean I just reported one today who has been doing this for MONTHS.
  3. Remove spawn costs, if you die you pay the full repair cost, with the option of using 1 backup. 
  4. Every time we have this type of discussion rewards are nerfed and the population dwindles, before you guys go foaming at the mouth about zombers and how they ruin the game just remember that if they leave EC rooms will be empty since they make up for half the players present. Just make their presence less of an influence on the outcome of the game.
  5. "we are considering options to simplify the economy system in EC missions by adding a fixed amount of SL and RP per time period when reaching a specific event in the mission instead of a reward for each individual action."
    This is a terrible idea, not only will you limit the rewards for those abusing EC, but you will also be limiting rewards for those who are the most successful and carry their team or get many kills.
    Do not punish the most succesul players because you are unable to moderate your own game even after receiving literally thousands of reports about the abuse!
     
  6. The rewards in EC are already lower than they are if you were to play RB, the entire SL modifier is a lie even though it shows higher in SB you get less, fix this, ban those farming their alt accounts and stop allowing hoardes of zombers to determine the outcome of game where they are dying 20+ times yet still win by zerg rushing the entire map.
  7. Allow SB players to participate in warbonds and events, the easiest way to fix EC is to reward those who fly skillfully while punishing those who die often because they are on kamikaze autopilot. There is no excuse that a player who is investing hundreds or thousands in hardware (and is more likely to invest in your game) to be making less SL in SB where they actually have to control the plane than someone using a $10 mouse in AB/RB. Reward those who are skilled in SB instead of rewarding RB refugees who only use this mode to exploit their way for some easy cash while also getting gyro stabilized mouse turrets, which are just a slap in the face to someone who is desperately fighting to control their aircraft using joystick/mouse j/s in order to aim. 

 


+1

 

Spoiler
3 hours ago, FouManchou said:

In my opinion, that is unsatisfactory :

- One of the reasons for the economic problems of EC stems from players being unable to make a profit unless they win, meaning they will actually abandon a losing side much too quickly (maybe even after only one fly out). This causes teams to become more imbalanced, and is responsible for absurdly high repair costs since, once the opposing players are gone, there isn't much danger of getting shot down.


- To alleviate this, "mission accomplished" rewards should be reduced while overall rewards are increased. Players should still be recompensed for winning, but not rely on the victory for the economy to make any sense. 
IMO, a satisfactory point would be a 25 to 35% increase in earnings of both SL and RP as part of the "mission accomplished reward", with the overall "projected earnings" for a victory remaining unchanged.
 

 

As for the "safe return" bonus, I think it should also be toned down a bit with rewards with it again remaining unchanged.
"Safe return" should increase rewards by at most 50% (currently 100%), and thus be responsible for 33% rather than 50% of a sortie's earnings.

Otherwise you can run the "risk" of players prefering to deny confrontation in a PvP game simply to ensure more earnings, which while realistic isn't the highest level of fun for the opposition.

 

 

On top of that, as others have said, it is quite necessary to disable the ability for one country to be present on both sides of an EC room.

As an addendum, I would generally consider three countries per side to be a reasonable maximum - limiting the chance of copy paste facing each other, but also of one player-made room stacking all nations versus a less-powerful (or popular) one.

 

 

PS. It would be nice if SWEDEN was removed from "historical EC games" it has no business in (Vietnam and Afghanistan among others).

On the other hand, if more "historical" or "alternate-history" EC games could be created, it would be much appreciated.

 


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 ‘rigged’ battles

yeah, rigged battles, normally is Ka50 rigged the heli battle.

In my opinion, this question is discussable only after Gaijin remove "Kamov versus Mi4 in EC", which has totally destroyed gamer's playing experience. I really can't imagine, how could Gaijin put 8.3 heli fight with 10.3

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This picture has been deleted from the sharing forum!
Did I commit the crime?

What is the purpose of deleting?

33619192_shot2021_01_2610_52_00.thumb.jp

1602590954_shot2021_01_2520_39_35.thumb.

962238695_shot2021_01_2520_31_36.thumb.j

I will continue to share new ones

Edited by _C_nothingman

Stona (Posted )

Please stop spamming useless posts without any content in this topic. Thanks. If you want to share your screenshots with "no comment" description there is a special section for you - Fan Zone.
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You know what else creates dishonest players? 10.0 helicopters vs 8.0 ones. A metal box with machine guns vs a flying tank with rockets and radar. That is what causes dishonest playing especially when one team has 2 tigers and the other has 5 ka50s. Ive only played helicopter and naval EC because those were the only events available but I cant say much about naval. I didn't see many issues. Unlike helicopter EC with multiple issues

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My point of view is that in some cases there are only 2 players per team, killing bots dont give you same amount of RP and SL as players... and now if you meet that player (which is obvious because of stupid bot behavior) you won't get good reward --- will make people hate EC even more.

I find that cheating not that a big problem because these "cheaters" in most cases ar untalentet pilots who do that because can't really fight, that means because of their no skills they can do only 3-4 kills in most cases :)

For me this decision is irrational.

Edited by Uazkin
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10 minutes ago, yiran1007 said:

 ‘rigged’ battles

yeah, rigged battles, normally is Ka50 rigged the heli battle.

In my opinion, this question is discussable only after Gaijin remove "Kamov versus Mi4 in EC", which has totally destroyed gamer's playing experience. I really can't imagine, how could Gaijin put 8.3 heli fight with 10.3

 

I generally feel some of the community's complaints about "compression" are overblown... but Heli EC is definitely a very bad case of it, and it really needs to be fixed. I still haven't actually flown out my Kisarazu Cobra in a proper match yet, I just don't see the point.

 

And for the love of god, make Heli EC RB instead of AB.

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3 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

 

I generally feel some of the community's complaints about "compression" are overblown... but Heli EC is definitely a very bad case of it, and it really needs to be fixed. I still haven't actually flown out my Kisarazu Cobra in a proper match yet, I just don't see the point.

 

And for the love of god, make Heli EC RB instead of AB.

I never even bought the kisarazu even tho i would have loved to spend my money on it, simply because of how the matchmaking is.

 

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