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Centurion MK1 moving to 6.0


Fixed APDS penetration 

 

17 Pounder - 1st Gen

275mm @ 100m (0 Degrees)

224mm @ 100m (30 Degrees)

77mm @ 100m (60 Degrees)

-

20 Pounder - 1st Gen

379mm @ 100m (0 Degrees)

308mm @ 100m (30 Degrees)

106mm @ 100m (60 Degrees)

-

105mm L28A1 APDS - 2nd Gen

345mm @ 100m (0 Degrees)

135mm @ 100m (60 Degrees)

-

105mm L52A1 APDS - 3rd Gen

379mm @ 100m (0 Degrees)

166mm @ 100m (60 Degrees)

 

Edited by Laurelix
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On 22/01/2021 at 19:53, KillaKiwi said:

Well, the Comet and Challanger are basically like back-up TDs. You also got the BP which like the Cent Mk 1 is quite strong in downtiers.

 

With the APDS buff the Cent Mk 1 is definitely better than the Panther A.

 

 

I would not say the Centurion is better than the Panther. The Panther resembles something between light and medium tank, while the Centurion is slower but has slightly better armament and armor.

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On 13/03/2021 at 13:32, DestroyerTomCZ said:

I would not say the Centurion is better than the Panther. The Panther resembles something between light and medium tank, while the Centurion is slower but has slightly better armament and armor.

 

The Panther has better armour though. The Centurion Mk1 is glass to the things coming its way, and its gun bounce is so bad that its armament really isn't better at all. It was fine at 5.7 where it was, where the Panthers should be too.

Edited by TheFuzzieOne
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2 hours ago, TheFuzzieOne said:

 

The Panther has better armour though. The Centurion Mk1 is glass to the things coming its way, and its gun bounce is so bad that its armament really isn't better at all. It was fine at 5.7 where it was, where the Panthers should be too.

I still think the Cent Mk 1 is better because:

 

  • Better velocity: 1200m/s vs 935m/s
  • Faster Reload: 5.9s vs 7.4s
  • Better protection against SPAA: Cent Mk 1 has more side armor and generally faces SPAA with less penetration.
  • Thicker turret front and sides can negate rounds the Panther turret can't.

So the Cent Mk 1 is more likely to hit a target at range as well as moving targets while also having better surviability against vehicles with weaker armament.

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8 hours ago, KillaKiwi said:

 

  • Better protection against SPAA: Cent Mk 1 has more side armor and generally faces SPAA with less penetration.

 

Wut. Every german AA can pen you so what AA does the Cent face that the panther doesn't?

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9 hours ago, KillaKiwi said:

I still think the Cent Mk 1 is better because:

 

  • Better velocity: 1200m/s vs 935m/s
  • Faster Reload: 5.9s vs 7.4s
  • Better protection against SPAA: Cent Mk 1 has more side armor and generally faces SPAA with less penetration.
  • Thicker turret front and sides can negate rounds the Panther turret can't.

So the Cent Mk 1 is more likely to hit a target at range as well as moving targets while also having better surviability against vehicles with weaker armament.

Fully agree, since the mixed match maker I encounter UK as US fairly often, killing a Panther in my 76mm Jumbo isn't a problem, but the Cent Mk1 is a powerhouse that can lol pen your UFP. 

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9 hours ago, KillaKiwi said:

I still think the Cent Mk 1 is better because:

 

  • Better velocity: 1200m/s vs 935m/s
  • Faster Reload: 5.9s vs 7.4s
  • Better protection against SPAA: Cent Mk 1 has more side armor and generally faces SPAA with less penetration.
  • Thicker turret front and sides can negate rounds the Panther turret can't.

So the Cent Mk 1 is more likely to hit a target at range as well as moving targets while also having better surviability against vehicles with weaker armament.

 

First the Cent MK1 is an MBT not a Medium tank, MBTs are more halfway between a heavy tank and a medium tank.

So yes it has better armor in theory but is also much slower, it has a very weak LFP that once pen is an isnta kill due to the ammo rack, while better armored it's turret is much bigger and a flat plate unlike most panthers. I am not to much worried about it being at 6.0 as it is on par with the 6.0 panther, but now Britain doesn't have any real decent line up at the 5.- br

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7 hours ago, DrPhibes1 said:

Wut. Every german AA can pen you so what AA does the Cent face that the panther doesn't?

Germany uses 37mm cannon with less than 50mm of penetration, the Soviets have very fast Milktrucks with 25mm cannons that pen less than 55mm.

Neither can really deal with the Cent Mk 1 from the side and the Soviet 37mm SPAAs are quite slow.

The Panther on the other hand faces 40mm Bofors that can penetrate the sides, since the max protection is 45mm on the lower hull.

 

It's also possible to kill Panthers by shot-trapping them with any medium sized AP or APHE round from close range.

 

When it comes to fighting more serious threats, both the Cent and Panther are quite capable but the Cent again is just a small step ahead.

 

6 hours ago, Gdsryrox said:

First the Cent MK1 is an MBT not a Medium tank

There is really not much difference between a MBT or Medium tank. A MBT is just a tank that replaced all other more specialized tanks.

6 hours ago, Gdsryrox said:

MBTs are more halfway between a heavy tank and a medium tank.

A heavy tank is generally a break through tank, except maybe the Conqueror which was nothing more than an overgrown turreted tank destroyer.

While no MBT is really made for that role. Instead they stay at range, show their frontal armor and use their guns against any target.

Also MBTs like the Leopard and most MBTs are quite mobile, since mobility increases survivability when armor doesn't matter that much.

 

 

 

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The shot trap while historically accurate (only on the A and D) doesn't exist in game due to it not being coded properly, so the rounded bottom part of the turret just simple blocks shells. But yes the Bofors can do a number on enemy panthers if you get on the flank, a Crusader AA can be a blast to use. Though I think most people don't like the German SPAA due to their higher rate of fire and ability to cripple your tank easily. 

 

The whole point of the MBT (at least the British and American ones) was to make a universal tank that combines the mobility of a medium with similar armor to a heavy tank, which is what the Cent 1 has, (also trying to compare a post war German MBT to a late ww2 MBT seems kinda pointless too). Also British heavy tanks and even to this day were always infantry not breakthrough tanks and they were mounted with larger guns to face the constant super heavy's being made by Germany and later the USSR so that argument is instantly out the window.

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Just now, Gdsryrox said:

The shot trap while historically accurate (only on the A and D) doesn't exist in game due to it not being coded properly, so the rounded bottom part of the turret just simple blocks shells.

They do work, even better / more reliable now because of volumetric shells.

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5 minutes ago, BeriY_ said:

They do work, even better / more reliable now because of volumetric shells.

 

Sorry they don't, I can go into Armor Protection Analysis or take a tank out onto the test drive and shoot at them over and over again and not ever get a pen via the apparent trap shot. Sorry but I think I will take what the game shows me over your comment.

Edited by Gdsryrox
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On 17/03/2021 at 18:06, KillaKiwi said:

I still think the Cent Mk 1 is better because:

 

  • Better velocity: 1200m/s vs 935m/s

 

Playing both, neither have any issue hitting. To get that velocity you need to use APDS, which is hilariously poor damage.

 

On 17/03/2021 at 18:06, KillaKiwi said:
  • Faster Reload: 5.9s vs 7.4s

 

Not really relevant. The Panther one shots things. The Centurion usually doesn't. Centurion's better at repeat shots, the Panther usually doesn't need a repeat shot. Its "time to kill" is shorter.

 

On 17/03/2021 at 18:06, KillaKiwi said:
  • Better protection against SPAA: Cent Mk 1 has more side armor and generally faces SPAA with less penetration.

 

An almost irrelevantly small point.

 

On 17/03/2021 at 18:06, KillaKiwi said:
  • Thicker turret front and sides can negate rounds the Panther turret can't.

 

The Cent gets ripped through its turret almost all the time, and it's much less well angled to get bounces.

 

On 17/03/2021 at 18:06, KillaKiwi said:

So the Cent Mk 1 is more likely to hit a target at range as well as moving targets while also having better surviability against vehicles with weaker armament.

 

It's more like:

 

Armour: Panther wins on account of its better resistance to the broader range of incoming at those tiers, but ultimately their differences aren't huge. Also it's at 5.3 with that armour.

Firepower: Panther wins as both have good penetration and can penetrate virtually anything they shoot at, but the Panther also has APHE to get instant kills, a massive upgrade. If Panther wants higher velocity, it too has such ammo.

Mobility: About the same, slight benefit to Panther.

 

Gaijin: "Panther should be 5.3/5.7 lol"

 

Just move the Centurion back to 5.7 alongside the Panther and it's fine. Both Panthers and Centurions are comparable in game, their differences are minor. There is no reason the Centurion should be that much higher when the Panther A is basically the same.

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On 19/03/2021 at 00:41, Gdsryrox said:

 

Sorry they don't, I can go into Armor Protection Analysis or take a tank out onto the test drive and shoot at them over and over again and not ever get a pen via the apparent trap shot. Sorry but I think I will take what the game shows me over your comment.

So you take my expierence over your client ? Maybe even try the server over your own client? Some people... :lol2:

On 19/03/2021 at 04:12, TheFuzzieOne said:

Firepower: Panther wins as both have good penetration and can penetrate virtually anything they shoot at, but the Panther also has APHE to get instant kills, a massive upgrade. If Panther wants higher velocity, it too has such ammo.

 

Yeah, i see how much you know about this game when you compare APDS to APCR. :facepalm:

 

 

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3 minutes ago, BeriY_ said:

Yeah, i see how much you know about this game when you compare APDS to APCR. :facepalm:


Except that I use both tanks, and are well aware of what they both do. Either way, the APHE round is far superior to both. Having it and APCR for the rare occasionals is far better.

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2 minutes ago, TheFuzzieOne said:


Except that I use both tanks, and are well aware of what they both do. Either way, the APHE round is far superior to both. Having it and APCR for the rare occasionals is far better.

So did i, but i'm not stating bs like you guys try to, yes, APHE Is better in most scenarios, but not every time, against light armored targets solid AP is still better because it spalls, while APHE won't even fuze.

 

On 19/03/2021 at 04:12, TheFuzzieOne said:

Not really relevant. The Panther one shots things. The Centurion usually doesn't. Centurion's better at repeat shots, the Panther usually doesn't need a repeat shot. Its "time to kill" is shorter.

 

Reload is relevant, saying 5.9 vs 7.4 isn't relevant? What surprised me, that you say the Panther usually one shots, while it doesn't often enough because it 'only' has 30 gramms of TNT equivalent. 

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1 minute ago, BeriY_ said:

So did i, but i'm not stating bs like you guys try to, yes, APHE Is better in most scenarios, but not every time, against light armored targets solid AP is still better because it spalls, while APHE won't even fuze.

 

ie - A tiny amount of the time that it hardly matters and in cases where the APHE usually kills them anyway. Small, unlikely happenstances that occur maybe once every few games does not a genuine flaw make to justify being two BRs lower.

 

1 minute ago, BeriY_ said:

 

Reload is relevant, saying 5.9 vs 7.4 isn't relevant? What surprised me, that you say the Panther usually one shots, while it doesn't often enough because it 'only' has 30 gramms of TNT equivalent. 

 

Except that it almost always gets single shots. One shot even near the crew and thats it. The vast majority of my kills in it are just lolpenning through the front and pop, gone tank. APDS doesn't do anything like that.

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4 minutes ago, TheFuzzieOne said:

ie - A tiny amount of the time that it hardly matters and in cases where the APHE usually kills them anyway. Small, unlikely happenstances that occur maybe once every few games does not a genuine flaw make to justify being two BRs lower.

 

No, often enough. Shoot a tank in the turret, and show me how often you one shot them with 30 gramm of tnt equivalent, versus with 100 gramms. Sure, might be a one shot for the Centurion Mk1 because 3 of 4 crew member are in the turret, but most of the time you're fighting tanks with 5 crew, so no, most of the time it doesn't one shot, if you're not aiming for ammo. 

 

6 minutes ago, TheFuzzieOne said:

Except that it almost always gets single shots. One shot even near the crew and thats it. The vast majority of my kills in it are just lolpenning through the front and pop, gone tank. APDS doesn't do anything like that.

If someone butchers the shot, the better reload  might save you often enough. By the way, it's APDS, do you expect a APCR with more powder to do the same damage as a 90mm? I use APCBC and APDS, APDS for Panthers and Jumbos now, and APCBC for Tigers aka flat armor.

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4 hours ago, BeriY_ said:

No, often enough. Shoot a tank in the turret, and show me how often you one shot them with 30 gramm of tnt equivalent, versus with 100 gramms. Sure, might be a one shot for the Centurion Mk1 because 3 of 4 crew member are in the turret, but most of the time you're fighting tanks with 5 crew, so no, most of the time it doesn't one shot, if you're not aiming for ammo. 

 

The Centurion doesn't have ANY APHE lad.

 

The Panther's gun is an easy one shot on almost anything.

 

4 hours ago, BeriY_ said:

 

If someone butchers the shot, the better reload  might save you often enough. By the way, it's APDS, do you expect a APCR with more powder to do the same damage as a 90mm? I use APCBC and APDS, APDS for Panthers and Jumbos now, and APCBC for Tigers aka flat armor.

 

Given how accurate and stable the Panther's gun is, if you flub that shot, it's on you. It aims a lot faster than the very wobbly and bouncy 17-pdr is post braking, not to mention the recent nerfs to 17-pdr APDS accuracy. APDS only kills if it hits ammo, elsewise it's not all that common to get one shots, at best 50/50 depending on ammo and layout. Compared to the Panther where you can reliably know as long as you hit the crew compartment, they're dead.

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On 19/03/2021 at 04:12, TheFuzzieOne said:

To get that velocity you need to use APDS, which is hilariously poor damage.

APDS deals as much damage as AP. You can easily oneshot a Panther from the front :008:

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14 minutes ago, KillaKiwi said:

APDS deals as much damage as AP. You can easily oneshot a Panther from the front :008:

 

It really doesn't. It's always about angle, target, facing, distance, armour thickness. There's a lot to consider, side especially are notorious with APDS for never killing in one shot.

 

APHE does it from pretty much anywhere due to the Sphere of Doom™ that has gone uncorrected in this game since release.

 

Either way, there is no reason that the Centurion is worth being higher than the 5.7 Panther, they're both pretty much the same as previously explained with their own advantages. Playing on the Panther side way more often these days, the entire trouble is half the German teams just suffering the long known "Tiger problem" and running out into the blind open with Panthers and wondering why they die. I look around the teams I'm on and absolutely despair.

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1 hour ago, TheFuzzieOne said:

The Centurion doesn't have ANY APHE lad.

 

The Panther doesn't have APDS Mate.

 

1 hour ago, TheFuzzieOne said:

The Panther's gun is an easy one shot on almost anything.

 

Like I wrote before, 30 gramms of TNT equivalent isn't enough to one shot a tank most of the time.

 

1 hour ago, TheFuzzieOne said:

Given how accurate and stable the Panther's gun is, if you flub that shot

In real life yeah, but in-game? The gun wobbles up and down when braking or accelerating.

 

2 hours ago, TheFuzzieOne said:

not to mention the recent nerfs to 17-pdr APDS accuracy. APDS

What Nerf, show me the source, i don't remember seeing anything regarding a nerf to the 17 Pounder APDS.

 

1 hour ago, KillaKiwi said:

APDS deals as much damage as AP. You can easily oneshot a Panther from the front :008:

Well .. that isn't really true either, APDS does better damage compared to APCR, but APCBC does still a ton more damage compared to APDS. When you shoot in the middle of the Panther you won't kill anyone most of the time, it's better to shoot the right sight, killing the driver, gunner and commander, and after that, shooting the left, killing the radio operator. 

1 hour ago, TheFuzzieOne said:

Either way, there is no reason that the Centurion is worth being higher than the 5.7 Panther

That i agree, but the Panther A shouldn't be 5.7 to begin with, when the Panther G is worse in performance but has a higher battle rating. 

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Kind of confused on what you said in your last statement when I talked about the trap shot as your sentence doesn't seem to make any sense.

 

10 hours ago, BeriY_ said:

 

Like I wrote before, 30 gramms of TNT equivalent isn't enough to one shot a tank most of the time.

 

In real life yeah, but in-game? The gun wobbles up and down when braking or accelerating.

 

What Nerf, show me the source, i don't remember seeing anything regarding a nerf to the 17 Pounder APDS.

 

Well .. that isn't really true either, APDS does better damage compared to APCR, but APCBC does still a ton more damage compared to APDS. When you shoot in the middle of the Panther you won't kill anyone most of the time, it's better to shoot the right sight, killing the driver, gunner and commander, and after that, shooting the left, killing the radio operator. 

That i agree, but the Panther A shouldn't be 5.7 to begin with, when the Panther G is worse in performance but has a higher battle rating. 

 

Though not having APDS is has APCBC which has high pen (just a bit shy of 200 by a few mm point blank), explosive filler and does well against sloped armor along with it being stock, while the Cent 1 has a loooooong grind to get APDS while using it's shitting stock rounds which can only just pent 171mm at point blank. Yes it can't always one shot a tank if aimed at certain area's but if you pen it there is a very high chance your going to kill most of the crew and ruin the breach/explode ammo.

 

As for the accuracy nerf apparently on the Russian forums there was a bug report (either legit or probably cus russians suffer quite a lot at 5.7-6.7 due to their lack luster armor and guns compared to germany) and APSD has gotten less accurate making snipping with a cent 1 against a panther a death sentence.

 

To top is all up the Panther A and Cent 1 are good in different areas neither is better then the other, like the M18, good gun great speed but no armor. T-34-85 decent all rounder. If they have to keep the Cent 1 at 6.0 they need to at least add in the P1 version with the 20mm cannon and have it replace the 5.7 and possible add in the Cent 2, a slightly up armored version which can also sit at 6.0 or perhaps be at 6.3 and give britain an acital tank at that BR since their old 6.7 line up was thrusted into 7.3 (which while I'm not really complaining about that the insane repair cost on them still make those tanks more or less unplayable at that br).

 

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I personally like the Cent mk 1 more

but since that APDS update, they killed the 17pdr APDS

sure it didn't do a ton more damage, but it still did a fair bit more than it does now. 

 

apart from that, I love the platform. The tank isn't speedy but it's fast enough (in some alternate universe where we get regenerative steering I'd even call it good). That reverse speed is a lifesaver, and the turret rotation is serviceable when combined with neutral steering. 

 

currently grinding the SA vehicles and I usually bring it out as my second after the PoS dies to arty or mgs or sometimes just an angry look. Usually by then most of the heavy enemies are gone and nothing can withstand my penetration (even up to 8.0)

 

overall it's not an especially competitive tank but I like it

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20 hours ago, BeriY_ said:

The Panther doesn't have APDS Mate.

Never said it did. Besides, it has APHE, which is massively better in game.

 

 

20 hours ago, BeriY_ said:

Like I wrote before, 30 gramms of TNT equivalent isn't enough to one shot a tank most of the time.

Except that it almost always does in game.

 

 

20 hours ago, BeriY_ said:

In real life yeah, but in-game? The gun wobbles up and down when braking or accelerating.

And in game, the Panther (for some reason) has much less wobble, whereas the Centurions is VERY wobbly.

 

20 hours ago, BeriY_ said:

What Nerf, show me the source, i don't remember seeing anything regarding a nerf to the 17 Pounder APDS.

Their accuracy is much lower than it used to be, they disperse more.

 

20 hours ago, BeriY_ said:

Well .. that isn't really true either, APDS does better damage compared to APCR, but APCBC does still a ton more damage compared to APDS. When you shoot in the middle of the Panther you won't kill anyone most of the time, it's better to shoot the right sight, killing the driver, gunner and commander, and after that, shooting the left, killing the radio operator. 

That i agree, but the Panther A shouldn't be 5.7 to begin with, when the Panther G is worse in performance but has a higher battle rating. 

The Panthers and Centurion are both 5.7 tanks. The Centurion has no reason to be at 6.0 at all. I can't much see why the Panther at 6.0 is either after trying it. All Panthers and the Centurion should all be 5.7.

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8 hours ago, TheFuzzieOne said:

Their accuracy is much lower than it used to be, they disperse more.

can attest to this. Had over 80 battles since the latest update in it and the shell just goes wherever it wants to. the APDS is almost impossible to use at range. I can run through around 10 APDS rounds a foe at range, and up to 30-40 a battle. It's a nightmare. 

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