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Planned Battle Rating changes - January 2021


I would say that in RB the J32B and G.91YS should really go down to 9.7, with the number of supersonics (including Mach 2 jets) at 9.7 I can't see any justification for keeping them at 10.0. A lot of the jets at 9.7 already have better flight performance and weapons than they do.

 

This comment is about Air RB again. In general I think a better approach would be to move the top performing jets to 11.0 and leave most of the 10.0 where they are. This would really help top tier and allow aircraft such as the Lightning F.6 (and other supersonics) to move to 10.0, stopping them from bullying the 8.7s (which really have no hope against them). I know a friend was put off playing because he was constantly facing Mach 2 jets in his stock F-86A-5 (which you really have no hope against). Moving all those supersonics down to 9.7 is going to make life even worse for all those 8.7s and put people off playing the game.

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Vehicle: Buccanneer S.2

Game mode: Realistic battles

Suggestion: BR change from 9.3 to 9.0

Reason: breaking it down between the 2 game modes. Apologies if I repeat myself but many of the issues do layer into one another.

 

Air RB) Its air to air armament is only 2 sidewinder Bs if you choose to take less ground attack weapons and if you feel extra self loathing you can try to use the RN 2 inch rockets in air to air. Simply put it has no other job for air RB other than bombing ground targets and bases. Given its current BR it faces a significant number of 9.7/10.0 planes (especially facing American attackers), this makes its job hard to perform as it must attempt to avoid other high/higher speed aircraft (as it goes mach 0.95) which on its own would not be a major issue. The additional problem it has is that its flares are relatively poor compared to other systems (also reduced bomb load if taken and no air to air!) and the only sure way to avoid a missile strike is to perform a maneuver which has a strong risk of breaking the wing if the missile coming is of higher ability then a sidewinder B. This overall leads to a significant number of suicides or just accepting fate as to not be crewlocked in the plane. Reducing its BR by 1 step would help the plane to do its job of hitting ground targets and not simply be a suicide bomber but contribute in air RB by running multiple missions as its main threat of high grade missiles is reduced.

 

Ground RB) the UK does not have a 9.3 lineup but does have a 9.0 lineup. This means that should you wish to use the Buccaneer you must choose to either uptier your 9.0/8.x vehicles to a 9.3 BR and risk using them vs full rank+0.3 BR above your ground lineup or uptier your Buccaneer into 9.7 and above where it is very likely to face SAM systems.The buccaneer due to the aforementioned wing snapping issue in maneuvers when it has ordnance (pretty much anything on the wings increases snapping risk greatly) currently has difficulty when uptiered into the SAM system meta for air defense which greatly limits its usability in this game mode drastically.

 

In regards to both game modes, I wish to compare with the Scimitar (i know scimitar isnt a bomber/attacker ingame but the buccaneer replaced it IRL and it fits the argument best). Overall the Scimitar at 8.7 is arguably the better aircraft for anything other than carrying a massive bomb load depending on the game mode and "mission" you wish to play with the buccaneer. In terms of general capability the Scimitar is slightly faster at top speed, climbs better and is less likely to rip its wings off though it does have the compression issue limiting high speed turning. When it comes to mission, if you wish to play GRB they both carry the same 4 bullpups, however the Scimitar also has 4 30mm ADEN cannons in the nose for use vs light ground targets or enemy planes giving it a true multirole capability, if you wish to do the same with the buccaneer you need to sacrifice 2 bullpups for 2 sidewinder Bs and also risk facing significantly stronger AA and enemy aircraft without guns (I believe the SK60B has a lower BR due to a similar issue of lack of guns). Whiles yes, the Buccaneer can carry a lot of bombs including 4 internal bombs, it has to get into a position to use them which is difficult due to the wing rip probem mentioned above.

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Are you serious about M48?

Original M48A1 of US, it's BR is 7.3

But German M48A2C has same rounds of US's, it's engine is more powerful than M48A1, it has smoke grenade launcher.

So totally German M48 is better than US's M48. But German M48 now going to 6.7???? Really????

Are you think about 5.7 tanks that kidnapped in 6.7? and the other 6.7 tanks??? German M48 is objectively better than any other 6.7 tanks.

So German M48's BR doesn't need to adjust.

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50 minutes ago, Cpt_Bel_V said:

 

 

To 9.7:

- J6A

- F3H-2

- Shenyang F5

- MiG-17AS

- Hunter FG.9 & F6

- F-86 D&K

- G.91YS

- J32B

 

 

 

 

Half of those aircraft definitely don't belong 9.7, idk what you're on about 

 

It's the most compressed br bracket in air rb and Gaijin just constantly makes it worse 

 

The Mig 17, Cl's, and sabres all need to be moved down to 8.7 with how bad the compression is now. They're all just going to get dominated by supersonics with missiles that take no skill  

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T20 does not belong at 6.0, the T25 is now at the same BR and is just a better option. It was just fine at 5.7 and complimented the 5.7 line up well. I do also think the Jumbo 76 should be moved to 5.7 from 6.0, it sits too close to the Super Pershing at 6.3 and they are certainly not equal. Especially as with this trend of down-tiering German tanks, there is plenty of stuff at 5.7 and 5.3 that can deal with the Jumbo 76.

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Taking all those 10.0 jets and moving them to 9.7 is only making 9.7-8.7 gameplay worse, and overall not helping at all with br decompression - a well known issue that Gaijin seems to have missed again. An actual group of people not an algorithm to decide these changes would be much appreciated, if that's too much workload for Gaijin (it is the New Year after all) then it could be handed over to a selected group from the community - basically anything would be better than the algorithm right now.

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Please put the CL 13 B Mk. 6 back to 9.3, it just doesn't makes sense to me that it sits at 9.7 being that it gets to see Mirages and Mig 21's etc way too often where it just can't do anything other than be missile target practise. Same goes for the CL 13 A Mk. 5, should be downtiered to 9.0, it feels like Gaijin has completely killed the CL's in this game.

Edited by IAmLordeYaYa
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I am Very Curious what Gaijin was thinking when they proposed these BR changes.

- M48A2C (BR 6.7) is stupid and makes no sense when the Worse American Version still sits at BR 7.3
- Centurion Mk.1 (BR 6.0) is very dumb, i have not seen a single person complain about the Cent Mk.1 being at it's current BR
- Panther F (BR 5.7) again i have seen nobody wanting the Panther F to go down in BR
- Object 120 (BR 7.3) the War Thunder Community has wanted the Object 120 to go up in BR for years not down in BR
- T20 (BR 6.0) who actually demanded this change?
- Sturer Emil (BR 4.3) is weird and would probably have a negative effect on the vehicle as the High Penetration could make it overpenetrate targets at BR 4.3

BR Changes that are actually needed
- Black Prince (BR 5.7) the Black Prince is still very lackluster at BR 6.0
- R3 T20 (BR 6.7) the R3 T20 is still too powerful at BR 4.0
 

Edited by Cpt_Jack_Irons
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The j32b the j29Fare so utterly overpriced at a cost of 22-25k sl repair cost 
the battle rating of the j32b was increased to 10.0 its not competitive at this br and u will not get a lower statistic because players wont play it with that price and alot of new things are at 9.7 now so i dont see it moving an inch from its current battle rating with your current " system " of doing things based on statistics because if there are no people playing a vehicle you wont get a proper statistic so either decrease the repair cost or the battle rating or even better do the same for both i havent touched that vehicle since 2019 because its so utterly expensive....
you gotta start lowering the repair of sweden at some point it cant be this high forever its unfair...
... good positive criticism : dont base your statistics based on battle rating only but the price tag of the vehicle / repair cost also a good way to do it is to pretty much to do 2 statistics based on 
players wins / losses and the players SL made / how many games they play compared to other vehicles and get the averages then with those 3 informations you can see where you need to nerf / buff to make a balanced vehicle add new statistics that takes in the SL + Activity previous month or season or update i will settle for literally anything as long as it helps to balance 

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57 minutes ago, Cpt_Bel_V said:

 

To 9.7:

- J6A

 

- Shenyang F5

- MiG-17AS

 

Im sorry what? 

 

MiG-17AC is literally a MiG-17 (one of the worst performing 9.0s at the moment) with 2 useless P-3Cs. J-6A is literally a MiG-17. F-5 is an AC with an afterburner and barely performs better. What warrants them being above the AV-8A?? 

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Please stop this "br based on statistics" nonsense. How can the German M48 be 6.7 while the American and Chinese ones are 7.3, even the M46 is higher! And changes to Panther F, T20 and Object 120 is something that I don't agree with either. All of those listed above should stay where they are. And instead of lowering the Black Prince to match the Centurion, you are moving the Centurion up to match the Black Prince lol.

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I liked the reduction of the F-4C and the MiG-21PFM and MiG-19. 

 

However, I really don't agree with the continued difficulties Gaijin creates in playing bombers, this time evident in the BR increase of the Ju-288 and B-57s. 

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Moving up the B-57s is going to kill them. They are barely viable at 8.0 and at 8.3 they are going to see a lot more AAM which is going to make them completely useless.

 

the F-4C is still too good to be lowered.

 

How is the G.91YS still at 10.0? Since it’s been moved up I haven’t seen one in game. It was barely worth playing at 9.7 when we still had a barrier.

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i think the MiG-21PFM should not go down in BR because it will face even more agile opponents like sabres and G.91 which it has no chance against. Preferably it should gain R-60s and stay at its BR so it shows the improvement from the MiG-21F-13 and improve its value in the marketplace alongside its performance in game.

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tbh, EBR move to 5.0 or to 5.7 isn't bad

but i just hope, before going further, Gaijin should make EBR's wheel center should work perfectly. like that center wheel suppose has Hydraulic Suspension and that center wheel literally help EBR can cross any offroad such wet sand, desert, and snow, not nerfing it speed too much when facing offroad.

otherwise, it will not wise if BR changed because of statistic

Edited by Farmuhan
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Dear WT team,

 

I would like to provide you my feedback, but be noticed it is only for Ground RB.

Panther F to 5.7 seems OK to me. But alongside this move, you should move Panther A to 6.0 and Panther G to 5.7 too. Panther A is the best variant among A, D, F, G variants. It has the best mobility and the fastest turret rotation speed. On the other hand, it has little weaker turret armor, but it I found this difference not very significant.

 

T80B to 9.7 is nonsense. I can imagine it doesn't have the best statistics at 10.0, but tank itself is not issue. BR compression is issue and moving T80B to 9.7 wouldn't solve anything.

 

I disagree with T20 to 6.0. It think is suffers even at 5.7, same like M4A3 76. Both of them should go to 5.3. Why ? Just compare them with other vehicles like Panther F for example.

 

T-44-100 to 6.7 seems right to me. I would say it is the same performer like Panther 2. They should be same BR. On the other hand, compared to T-44 (85), 46% higher penetration alongside higher caliber....I am not sure if 0.4 BR difference is enough. Maybe other players could tell their opinion, but I think it would be fine to move T-44 to 6.0. (I think Panther A and T-44 should be the same BR).

 

JPz.4-5 to 6.3 is very good planned change. It shouldn't be the same BR as Ru-251.

 

Centurion Mk.1 to 6.0 is also fine change. According to me, it is same performing tank like Panther A, which should also be 6.0 like I said.

 

M48A2C to 6.7 is nonsense. It should be 7.3 same like US counterpart. M48A2C plays agains stabilized UK tanks, which is an issue, but moving it to 6.7 isn't solution. Proper solution would be massive BR decompression which would create a space for Vickers or Centurion Mk.10 to go at 8.0 for example. Right now, Vickers plays against Tiger 2H for example, which is nonsense.

 

Type 75 to 6.3 would be fine. I played it quite a lot recently and I never found it same good as Panther 2 for example.

 

I would also suggest other changes, but as long as there is such a strong BR compression, it woundn't make a lot of sense anyway.

Have a nice day.

 

 

 

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Right so there are several issues that I have with this list (All pertaining to planes in RB).

 

Starting off we have no BR decompression which means that 10.7s with supersonic/AB/FLR/IRAAM/SARHAAM/Radar/RWR capabilities fight aircraft that have only a few of these at a basic level (VTOL aircraft, Hunter FGA9, etc). These types of competitive 9.7s are not capable enough to compete at 10.7 due to their lack of aforementioned capabilities but are highly potent in a full downtier and would therefor cause issues if lowered to 9.3. Furthermore, 10.0 and 10.3 aircraft (which, whilst being the arbitrary BR black hole) also lack the capabilities to compete at an appropriate level with the more competitive 10.7 aircraft (namely the F-4E/EJ and MiG-21bis). These aircraft can still compete, but not with any real efficacy. Furthermore there are jets at that BR that do not suit 10.0 or 10.3 yet are shoe-horned in order to reduce the negative effects of lowering the BR. 

 

These aircraft could use some breathing space. Therefore I propose that the MiG-21bis, the F-4E and F-4EJ are moved to 11.0 in order to alleviate some of the issues caused with too many vehicles being uncompetitive but too powerful to move down in BR. I mostly agree with Cpt_Bel_V's suggestions in adjusting BRs in this regard, as it will give these planes the appropriate breathing room.

 

Other suggested changes include the moving of the supersonic F-11F-1 to 9.3 or 9.7 where it is better suited to combat with faster yet heavier opponents. I firmly believe that when correctly flown the F-11F-1 at 9.0 is as untouchable as the EEL is currently when played correctly (As it stands my current KD in the EEL went from a 0.9ish when it was 10.0 to over 2:1 now that it is 9.7 and untouchable in the right hands). The F-11F-1 is better suited to combat with heavier jets than its current 9.0 and 8.0 contemporaries, which I believe to be a win-win for  the F-11F-1 and a win for those who cannot breach 900km/h at SL (the F-11F is supersonic at SL from memory, which is roughly where the F-100D a whole 0.7 above it currently resides)

 

I also believe that the Javelin FAW.9 should move down to 8.3, where it can coexist among jets of comparable capabilities. The Javelin is nothing short of rubbish in a full uptier, but in a downtier is actually decent. It cannot exceed 1020k/h IAS and is therefore comparable at SL in top speed to the F-84G. In terms of its dogfighting capabilities, the Javelin can dogfight with great cost to energy against 8.7s and is effectively useless against a competent MiG-15 (even non bis) pilot. The Javelin is also easy prey for 163s and Yak-23s when caught below 600km/h which is very easy to do in the Javelin due to poor altitude performance and poor energy retention in turns. Although I might personally have a soft spot and a bias for the Javelin, I believe my case to be relatively neutral.

 

 

Regarding the changes proposed on the table:

 

F-4C Moving to 10.3 from 10.7

Suggestion: remain at 10.7

 

I believe that it's better for one vehicle to suffer than for a whole matchmaker to suffer because of a single vehicle. In the case of the F-4C, lowering the BR to 10.3 would cause it to face jets that are neither capable of catching or outplaying it, requiring the F-4C pilot to play like a bot to get caught out when in a downtier. Planes like the F-86F-40, F-86K, F-5 and CL-13A quite literally have no reliable means of outplaying an F-4C other than hoping they make the mistake of not climbing and turning with everything, which, as I mentioned earlier, relies entirely on f-4C pilots to play poorly in order to win. Not only that but the F-4C would be untouchable as a fighter bomber and would be able to end matches quicker than any A-7D 4-man squad could ever dream of.

 

There is too much room for the F-4C to be abused at a BR where a large percentage of high rank premiums are sold. This is a really bad first impression for someone looking to grind a new tree and diminishes the player experience.

 

MiG-19/Q-5s Moving to 9.7 from 10.0

Suggestion: remain at 10.0

 

Once again this is a case of a single vehicle (in this case 3) having too much potential to ruin a matchmaker. The MiG-19s will now combat the A-5 sabre and MiG-15bis which already have enough trouble against hunter FGA9s and co as it is. Not only that but planes that lack air to air armament, which have no chance against something faster by a magnitude of +200km/h at sea level (im talking G.91R-1 or J29D as an example) do not have any effective measure against these jets other than, once again, relying on the pilot of the superior plane to play like a bot. 

 

 

Gaijin is effectively going to completely destroy 8.7 in the same vein that the harrier GR.1, a good example of a 10.0, did in the past. Not only that but no one will want to play an even larger roster of jets which will further diminish queue times. Good balance has proven in the past to bring players back to a battle rating (when 10.7 was introduced as a max BR). Gaijin really needs to put special effort into understanding the underlying cause of certain jets performing at certain levels. Judging by the way the EEL and G91YS have been handled in the past, as well as a few other jets, it gives players like myself the impression that Gaijin's balancing department or balancing algorithm fails to take into account the plane's performance in battle (as in, KD, WR, KPR, position on team, etc).relative to its matchmaker (as in, whether it gets uptiered or downtiered, and if it performs well in downtiers but not in uptiers or vice versa) and this results in situations like this, where we can potentially have death of 8.7 2: electric boogaloo yet it all looks fine on paper because the KD and WR are within margins.

 

If Gaijin does not have at least one employee at least part time working on game balance (be that map balance, mechanic balance, battle ratings, economy, etc) manually (rather than activating an algorithm, generating a spreadsheet and making a forum post), I strongly advise Gaijin to do so. I highly doubt that even $100k annually wouldn't be sorely missed from the bottom line to hire someone and there is a strong case for alleviating the battle rating where the most premiums are sold will both improve player experience and encourage spending from the playerbase. 

 

As of recently, I as a content creator have begun dissuading newer players looking to grind jets from buying premiums and instead either sticking to lower tier jets or purchasing less expensive talismans as a result of Gaijin's poor balancing choices, particularly regarding the Harrier GR.1 and earlier the F-104A situations.

 

If you have extra information that I am not aware of or have missed in my analysis then please let me know. Other than that, I appreciate you taking the time to read my angry essay.

 

Have a good one

Sam

Edited by Spit_flyer
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Mostly good changes, but if the Fairmile D (697) is having it's BR reduced then so should the Fairmile D (5001). They are currently at the same BR and are basically the same boat, only the 5001 is premium and 2 of the 4 torpedoes are different. Please reduce the BR of the 5001 to match that of the 697.

It's good that some of the Fairmiles are having their BRs reduced, but I think the others should too. The Fairmile C (332) for example is 3.3, which is as high as the Brave Class and higher than the SGB, despite having none of the positives of either. You're reducing the BR of the Fairmile C (312) to 2.3, which is very similar except the 332 has a different kind of 40mm (a better one, to be fair), and some better auxillaries. I feel as if the 332 should be 2.7.

Not used the Fairmile D (617) with the single 57mm yet, but every time I encounter an enemy with one it's a free kill, never do I feel even slightly threatened. Maybe it should be moved down too.

Talking about Arcade btw, don't know how well these boats to in realistic.

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I think Centurion mk.1 should roll back to 5.7. Take for example with Tiger 2 (P), it's br is 6.3. Almost same with Cent mk1's br. It has 100mm Sloped armor with powerful 88mm 71 caliber length cannon. 100mm sloped armor block the almost all attack from other tanks. And 88mm 71 caliber length cannon (simply 88/71), it can destroy other tanks just one shot. But in Cent mk1, 17pounder cannot destroy other tanks just one shot. It armor, very weak. Soviet 76.2mm cannon can penetrate FRONT. I cannot understand today's br patch and hope evrythimg come to normal.

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F3H-2 at 9.7 ... NO :018:

He doesn't have the speed to keep up with 9.7 and even less in an uptier at 10.7

 

You can't even hit something with an AIM9B, if you are always slower. At 9.3 it performs well, and is protected from high end vehicles.

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Arcade Battles

 

Centurion AVRE : it is just ridiculous its 7.0 BR. It can delete any tank of one shoot and whit the help aiming of Arcade Battle disappears the skill factor of having to calculate the arch of the shell. So, it is just point and click. Better armour, better profile, better reload, 360º turret and with smokes and just +0.3 than FV4005; it is pathetic. Full squads playing AVRE and farming lions and experience for free. The only reason to not increase the BR is just you have to sell a lot of them. Minimum up it to 7.3 and its real BR should have to be 7.7

 

T-55 AM-1 : same BR than T-55 but with composite armour in turret and hull and with ATGM. Totally logic, but one more time is a premium tank; the sells are more important. Come back to 8.7.

 

Foch : yeah 180mm of armour angled to 56º... wow... totally useless against postwar shells; and hey... shoot me in the ragefinder with a normal APHE and boom; you catch me. Side armour of paper, bad reload, big muzzle cannon that is equivalent to Broken gun every time, bad depression... yeah it is fit very well in 7.3 :facepalm: now really, I promise you that even in 6.7 this SPG won't break the battles.

 

CA Lorraine : hey... I'm very fast like a F1 with a very good gun... but wait my armour is made with paper; even a Tier II can penetrate me without aiming. I have bad reload, bad depression, in Arcade battles is hard to ambush, why am I in 6.3 ?? A Gaijin mistery. Down it in 5.7 and won't be totally useless, just a bit useless SPG

 

And a lot of more tanks, but I'm tired now. Just remember one thing; Arcade battles is totally different to Realistic and recently you are doing the same changes of BR for both modes. And the vehicles behaviour and the factors that influence in them are tooooootally differents. So, work in BR separetly and being conscious of what suposse the change in the current gameplay of the tank.

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The German M48A2 C is fine at 7.0, 7.3 with the US M48 even, considering it's almost identical the only difference being the engine, which is actually better than the American one's, so the only reason I can think of that it would go down to 6.7 is that not a lot of people use it, and very few people who use it actually do well in it, which I think has skewed the statistics you got from it saying it needs to go down. (That being said, I believe it has no lineup at 7.0, so if you die in an uptier, you are left with 6.7's in 8.0 or you took it into an 8.3/8.7 game with a 7.3/7.7 lineup)

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