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Planned Battle Rating changes - January 2021


I Mean why have we still not seen a general uptiering of the R3 T20 to atleast 7.0? Its easily the most well known horribly undertiered vehicle in the game, you dont have to go far to find evidence of it absolutely steamrolling people at tier And above tier. Gaijin pls, put us out of our misery.

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The Centurion Mk. 1 should stay at 5.7 RB and the more beneficial change at that BR for the British tree is moving the Black Prince from 6.0 to 5.7 which there can be a lineup for 5.7.  Also, the Black Prince will be more enjoyable to play at 5.7 because it can better fulfill its role as a heavy tank.

 

 

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Why Ho-Ri prototype is going from 6.0 to 6.3?

Lets compare it to 6.3 Jagdpanther and Ferdinand:

     The gun has about the same performance as 8.8cm Pak 43, but Ferdi loads whole 2 seconds faster.

     On paper Ferdinand has about the same mobility, but with electric transmission it moves way better, specially backwards. Ho-Ri cannot usually reach it's max speed. Jagdpanther beats it by a landslide.

     In armor protection Ho-Ri might look equal to it's German counterparts if you only stare at the statcard. If you bother to check, it has large 120mm and 75mm weakspots at front.

    

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Air RB-

F-104A - here is a prime example of a jet that should not be sitting at 10.0, at this point. It has the same rating as it’s counterparts. Yet the -

104C is faster,

104G is faster and carries 2 more (better) missiles

104J is faster and better load out

104S is at least at 10.3 but with a significant better loadout than all the rest

 

Those jets should all be moved up to make breathing room below them. A 104A should not be equal to any of them. But you can’t lower its BR because then it has the potential to club. 

Get the BR ceiling to 11.0 at this point. Anything other than that, and you can’t have a serious discussion on movement 

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23 hours ago, RytisLTU1 said:

German M48, Obj.120 and Jpz.4-5 should stay where they are, there is no reason for them to go down

What a about t-80b? I agree completely in what you said, but t-80b should stay where it was. It can go to 10.3 and still be good. My friend plays t-80b and has no problem fighting leo 2a5/a6, m1a1/a2, challies 2

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16 hours ago, [email protected] said:

Russia: MiG-21PFM should stay at 10.0.
This plane suffers at top tier, but it is too powerful to face 8.7s and even 9.0 suffer against it. This is a very bad move that will make 8.7-9.7 very difficult to enjoy for anyone except 9.7 aircraft.

 

Agreed.

 

What we really need is decompression. What we really need is weaker 8.7s not having to fight MiG-21s. Why would a Swift, with mediocre missiles and speed, have to fight a PFM, an aircraft that easily goes supersonic fighting a BR where we're still playing F-86F vs MiG-15bis? Why should aircraft that are objectively much worse than their competition and even other planes in their tree be at the SAME BR as said better planes - i.e, F-86A at the same BR as F-86F, and if we go down to props, Chinese P-51D-20 at the same BR as American P-51D-5, P-40F at the same BR as P-40E, etc. Why should the F-86F-JASDF have to fight the F-4C in a mixed match if these BR changes go through? Why does the CL-13 have to fight 10.7 supersonics when it is literally a .50 cal Saber with a few mediocre missiles?

 

And if we look at early jets, why is the 262 C-1a at the same BR as the F-80C? Why is it at the same BR as the F-84G - a plane that is horrendously overpowered in downtiers vs 7.0? Why should the squad reward 262 fight the newly downtiered F-84F? - it doesn't make any sense. Reducing the MM spread would fix some of these problems, but it wouldn't fix the weak planes that are at the same BR as stronger ones.

 

Jets is already saturated with people playing it, but there are a lot of people on the sidelines - like me - who would play jets more if there was decompression: I'm guessing that for every player flying an 8.7 aircraft, there is another player who has one but doesn't use it. For me it sure feels that way. My recommendation is to move the best top tier jets to 11.3: every missile-launching plane goes north of 8.7, the stronger planes go up a BR, the OP planes go up two, and the weak ones stay where they are.

 

Look at the Swedish 9.0 attacker; yeah, that. Why it's at the same BR as the MiG-17 nobody knows.

 

Please, please, please take my feedback. Even if top tier just went to 11.0 and we adjusted from there.... please.

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If the T44-100 goes down to 6.7 the premium T34-100 shouldn't go down too, to 6.3 for example?

They have the same gun but the T34 with a higher reload time (about 6sec). However, the T44 has higer movility, 45mm more in the hull from the front, 30mm more in the turret, faster horizontal turret rotation and it has a 12.7mm DShK for light armored vehicles and planes.

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What is the point in putting canberras at 8.3? Okay sure , but lower the repair cost by half then. Now they are over priced and over tiered.
If german m48 goes down to 6.7 , the rest of them should to.
[Suggestions]
Also T-29 back to 6.7 like it once was.
M46 -6.7
M47 -7.0
T-32 -7.0 and 7.3

 

Obj 120 is fine where it is now. Playing it every day , even in uptier it holds his ground more than well.

[Suggestion]

T-10M - 8.0 , this old boy should not face xm-1s almost every game.
T-80B is just fine at 10.0
 

[Suggestions]

Type 90 & 90B - 10.0. If T-80 is going down to 9.7 then these guys should be 10.0. 5 sec reload means nothing compared to lack of protection and decent line up to back them up.
 

[Suggestions]

Hunter F6 , J32B and G91YS should be 9.7 aswell. With mig19s and even some of 21s , along with harriers , f100s and other 9.7s they could be a thing for their own. There should be enough vehicles to leave 8.7s out of it and on the other hand not to get uptired and smacked by phantoms & co.

 

 


 

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I have no real problem about the changes. But I think that if the EBR goes up by 0.3 points, it's natural predator, the far superior R320 should also get up by 0.3. 

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Overall the BR changes planned for AIR RB look good. 

I am apprehensive seeing b57's and cannberras at 8.3. These bombers might get bullied at 8.3 to 9.3 but removing them from 7.0 battles is a plus in my opinion. Perhaps the unarmed bombers can stay at 8.0 and the models with guns can see 8.3. 

 

I wanted to see BR changes for the following:

F11F: 9.0=>9.3

J32B: 10.0=>9.7

G91YS: 10.0=>9.7

Ki45 hei/tei [China]: 3.3=>2.7

 

F11F going to 9.3 is a no brainer for me. The engine power the F11F has allows it to disrespect anything at an equivalent 9.0 BR, and the armament is great compared to it's 9.0 equivalents. Ideally this plane will be on the same team as radar AIM7 wielding F4C's so the lack of RWR will not be a huge issue.

 

J32B and G91 YS going to 9.7 are two easy choices for me. They both lack RWR, so in a .3 BR uptier the F4C phantoms will have an edge with their AIM7D missiles. Both of these planes lack good missiles. My biggest reasoning for the .3 downtier for these planes is the downtiering of the mig19/21PFM/J7 downtiering to 9.7. It's only fair! :yes_yes_yes:

The chinese premium KI 45 hei/tei is 1 whole battle rating higher than it's equivalent in the japanese tech tree (ki 45 tei) But the aircraft only has one additional 20mm cannon. This one additional cannon does not warrant a BR increase compared to the counterpart! I would suggest 2.7 as the slow firing offensive HO3 cannon is a nice addition. 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Turtlegomz said:

I Mean why have we still not seen a general uptiering of the R3 T20 to atleast 7.0? Its easily the most well known horribly undertiered vehicle in the game, you dont have to go far to find evidence of it absolutely steamrolling people at tier And above tier. Gaijin pls, put us out of our misery.

R3 has a negative K/D and a poor win rate.  Not sure what you are  complaining about.

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The JU-288 C should stay at 5.7 so it doesn’t have to fight jets as much as it would at 6.0 because of how 6.7 jets will be in every uptier battle and the BI is somehow being suggested to move down to 6.3 and it is literally an anti bomber rocket so fighting 3 of them is hard enough so at 5.7 the Ju-288 C will fight them but I don’t see the Ju-288 C doing well at 6.0 when it will be able to fight up to 7.0 jets which will easily catch it before it gets to a base and the super corsair can also do that as well. The JU-288 C is only good if you play your cards right but it is hard to when most people like going low to the ground where they usually die to fighters and if your teammates lose the fighter war then you are usually doomed but if they win you can just AC-130 some ground targets if there are some but even then you still have to wait on the enemy to lose their last players. Overall the JU-288 C is a good plane but putting it at 6.0 is a bad mistake especially with how people play it at low altitudes(which I will never understand when there are 2 turrets on the bottom).

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4 hours ago, TourDeForce said:

 

Agreed.

 

What we really need is decompression. What we really need is weaker 8.7s not having to fight MiG-21s. Why would a Swift, with mediocre missiles and speed, have to fight a PFM, an aircraft that easily goes supersonic fighting a BR where we're still playing F-86F vs MiG-15bis? Why should aircraft that are objectively much worse than their competition and even other planes in their tree be at the SAME BR as said better planes - i.e, F-86A at the same BR as F-86F, and if we go down to props, Chinese P-51D-20 at the same BR as American P-51D-5, P-40F at the same BR as P-40E, etc. Why should the F-86F-JASDF have to fight the F-4C in a mixed match if these BR changes go through? Why does the CL-13 have to fight 10.7 supersonics when it is literally a .50 cal Saber with a few mediocre missiles?

 

And if we look at early jets, why is the 262 C-1a at the same BR as the F-80C? Why is it at the same BR as the F-84G - a plane that is horrendously overpowered in downtiers vs 7.0? Why should the squad reward 262 fight the newly downtiered F-84F? - it doesn't make any sense. Reducing the MM spread would fix some of these problems, but it wouldn't fix the weak planes that are at the same BR as stronger ones.

 

Jets is already saturated with people playing it, but there are a lot of people on the sidelines - like me - who would play jets more if there was decompression: I'm guessing that for every player flying an 8.7 aircraft, there is another player who has one but doesn't use it. For me it sure feels that way. My recommendation is to move the best top tier jets to 11.3: every missile-launching plane goes north of 8.7, the stronger planes go up a BR, the OP planes go up two, and the weak ones stay where they are.

 

Look at the Swedish 9.0 attacker; yeah, that. Why it's at the same BR as the MiG-17 nobody knows.

 

Please, please, please take my feedback. Even if top tier just went to 11.0 and we adjusted from there.... please.

The MiG-21 PFM performs worse than all the other MiG-21s and it I even tested it against AI me-262s and the AI won so if an AI can easily kill it, a player with a 262 would also have no problem in theory. Also the PFM at 10.0 would fight literally everything that can catch it or out maneuver it and even at 9.7 or 9.3 it is still in the same situation because AV-8s exist and they can catch it a bit but not match the speed but their specialty in such a battle would be getting a missile kill on the PFM. F-100s can out maneuver the PFM and catch it and there are a few other jets that can do that as well but you get the idea.

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RB Ground Changes

Vehicles in red are not mentioned in the proposed changes.

Vehicles in blue are not mentioned and require changes in order to be more justified at their current BRs.

  • EBR (1954): 4.7 -> 5.0 4.7 -> 5.3
    • Despite the EBR not having APDS or the 202mm pen shell, the autoloader combined with the well above average mobility on most maps makes the EBR at least somewhat comparable to vehicles like the Tiger 1 H1 and A30 Challenger with ace crews.
  • M4A1 (FL10): 4.7 -> 5.0
    • The autoloader makes the M4A1 (FL10) easily better than the 17-pounder equipped Shermans and is on par with the Italian APDS equipped 17-pounder Sherman.
  • Sturer Emil: 5.0 -> 4.3/4.7?
    • No complaints. Doesn't provide any major advantages over the Dicker Max at that BR.
  • T80B: 10.0 -> 9.7 10.0
    • Despite not being as good as other nation's closest contemporaries like the IMP1 and Leo 2A4, the T80B can easily perform just as well as those. Furthermore, the T80B is much better than the T72 TURMS, T64B, and T72B despite having less armor due to the T80B having much higher mobility than those.
  • Type 75: 6.7 -> 6.3
    • No opinion.
  • Ho-Ri Prototype: 6.0 -> 6.3
    • No opinion.
  • KV-122 : 5.7 -> 5.3
    • No complaints. The KV-122 is a worse armored IS-2.
  • KV-85: 5.0 -> 4.7
    • No complaints. The KV-85 is a worse armored IS-1.
  • T20: 5.7 -> 6.0 5.7
    • 6.0 could only be somewhat justified if the T20 had APCR and smoke shells but it has neither.
  • Object 120: 7.7 -> 7.3 7.7 -> 8.0
    • BR 9.3 capable APFSDS shouldn't be on any BR 7.3 vehicle much less a BR 7.7.
  • Panther F: 6.0 -> 5.7 6.0
    • The Panther F is easily on par with the Panther A as it trades turret traverse for a better turret and a faster reload.
  • Panther A: 5.7 -> 6.0
    • The faster turret traverse easily puts the Panther A on par with later variants despite not having as much turret protection.
  • Panther D: 5.3 -> 5.7
    • Despite the Panther D having a hand cranked turret, it is still better than the Tiger H1 due to having better firepower and armor and better than the Jagdpanzer 4/70 due to having a turret.
  • T44-100: 7.0 -> 6.7
    • No complaints. The T44-100 has no lineup at 7.0 and could be used in an OK lineup with the SU-122-54.
  • ISU-122S: 5.7 -> 5.3
    • No complaints.
  • ISU-122: 5.3 -> 5.0
    • If the ISU-122S is getting lowered, so should the ISU-122.
  • JPz 4-5: 6.7 -> 6.3 6.7
    • The JPz 4-5 does perfectly fine at 6.7 and is still better than comparable SPGs at a similar BR such as the ASU-85, SU-100, M56, and M50. Could use scouting since it is in the middle of the post-war light tanks.
  • Ru-251 : 6.7 -> 7.0
    • The Ru-251 can do everything the JPz 4-5 can do but better due to having a turret despite not having as fast a rate of fire.
  • Centurion Mk. 1: 5.7 -> 6.0
    • Post volumetric armor made the Centurion Mk 1 just as good if not better than the Panthers. Definitely in need of additional vehicles at the same BR.
  • Charioteer Mk VII: 6.3 -> 6.0 Only if APDS is removed
    • Simply a suggestion to give the Centurion Mk 1 an additional vehicle for a lineup.
  • M48A2C: 7.0 -> 6.7 7.0 ->7.3
    • The German M48 has no logical reason to be at a lower BR than the American/Chinese M48 despite not having much of a lineup. The M48A2C should be used as a backup for the 7.7 lineup.
  • SU-100Y: 5.0 -> 4.7
    • No complaints/No Opinion.
  • R3 T20: 4.0 -> 6.3
    • The R3 T20 is a very capable SPAA due to having a high rate of fire in combination with it's very high mobility on most maps. At 6.3, the R3 T20 is put with Italy's other post-war armored cars. In regards to combat capability, it will still be able to see Shermans and T-34s in addition to very lightly armored vehicles such as the M18 Hellcat and BMP-1. Could possibly receive scouting to somewhat counteract the BR increase.
  • A.C. IV.: 5.3 -> 5.0
    • The A.C IV. lacks APDS or APHE to be justified at 5.3. The increased armor and mobility makes the A.C. IV comparable to other 5.0 vehicles.
  • QF 3.7 Ram: 5.3 -> 5.0
    • The QF 3.7 Ram is easily worse than any of Germany's glass cannon SPG and was only previously slightly overpowered due to not having hullbreak.
  • Leopard 2A6: 10.7 -> 11.0
    • The Leopard 2A6 has one of the best armor profiles in addition to having the best shell in the game, easily surpassing all other 10.7s in terms of capability.
  • STRV 122B: 10.7 -> 11.0
    • The BR increase for this variant of the STRV 122 is simply needed to slightly nerf the Swede's 10.7 lineup, forcing players into the 11.0 matchmaking if they want to have 2 STRV 122s in their lineup.
  • IKV 91: 6.7 -> 7.0
    • The IKV 91 is easily just as good if not better than the RU251 due to having 400mm pen HEAT-FS, a laser rangefinder, and no hullbreak.
  • VFM5: 9.0 -> 8.7
    • The VFM5, while having great mobility, has no thermals and a shell that is marginally worse than 105mm DM23.
  • M1128: 9.0 -> 9.3
    • The M1128 has the M900 shell, which surpasses 105mm DM63 and 120mm DM33 in penetration. Could possibly be given scouting to counteract the BR increase.
  • Pz.IV F2: 3.3 -> 3.7
    • Regardless of the lack of armor, the KwK40 L43 is too strong for a medium tank at 3.3.
  • Pz IV G: 3.7 -> 4.0
    • Just as capable as the Pz IV H, trading add-on armor for smoke launchers.
  • Sd.Kfz. 234/4: 3.0 -> 4.3+
    • The Sd.Kfz. 234/4 has insanely high mobility on most maps and has a great gun that makes the vehicle incredibly similar to the M18 Hellcat in terms of capability despite not having a turret or standard tracks.
  • ST-A3: 6.7 -> 7.0
    • If the AMX 13-90 is 7.0, there is no reason the ST-A3 should be 6.7. Despite the reload being 1 second slower than the AMX 13-90, a 6 second reload is still faster than nearly all hand loaded 90mm and 105 mm guns within the BR range.
  • Ariete PSO: 10.7 -> 10.3 Only if Leopard 2A6 is not increased to 11.0
    • The Ariete PSO offers no advantages over the standard Ariete and is much worse overall when compared to the Leopard 2A6.
  • M60A1 RISE (P): 8.7
    • Requires M774 in order to be comparable to similar BR vehicles that commonly have access to 105mm DM23 or better.
  • M60A3 TTS: 9.0
    • Required M833 in order to be comparable to similar BR vehicles that commonly have access to 105mm DM33 or better.
  • ADATS (M113): 10.3 -> 10.0
    • The M113 variant of the ADATS has worse armor, worse mobility, and lacks the autocannon that the Bradley varian has, and has the increased spawn cost associated with TDs.
  • Class 3 (P): 8.7 or possibly 9.0 in the future
    • Requires hullbreak to be removed but should be re-classed into a medium tank (increased spawn cost, no scouting, no reduced air spawn cost due to lack of scouting) due to being absolutely massive even when compared to the Maus.
  • M47 (105/55): 7.3
    • Either needs the reload to be increased to 10+ seconds or have 90mm equipped contemporaries reload speed to be reduced to 8.7 seconds or less in order to be comparable to each other at the same BR.
  • T-55AM-1: 8.3 -> 8.7
    • While the T-55AM-1 isn't quite as capable as the T-62M-1, it is still far superior than most 8.3 vehicles and can stand on it's own in the 8.7 BR range as a standalone vehicle or as a backup to the T-62M-1.
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I honestly am baffled by these changes. The german M48 is being dropped to 6.7 while the american M47 remains at 7.0 and the american and chinese M48s are both at 7.3? At some point, the data coming from the players needs to be set aside in the name of common sense, and this is clearly one of those situations. Similarly, it simply isn't fair to continue to reduce BRs of Panthers while uptiering their clear counterparts in tanks such as the T20. The panthers have superior guns and armor, while the T20 has a stabilizer and improved mobility.

 

These are objectively unfair and unbalanced changes based on the objective capabilities of the hardware in question. If a certain population of players is struggling to employ their vehicles properly, I think it would be better for the game developers to provide stronger incentives for players to play their vehicles properly in the way the designers intended as opposed to handicapping the vehicles that population tends to play.

I want to also object to the BR increase of the B-57s (especially those without primary armament); at this point all they can do is act as RP and SL pinatas. Especially for the variants lacking gun armament, speed is the only weapon these aircraft have; thus they should continue to sit at BRs in which that advantage actually exists.

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9 hours ago, Illyrian_King said:

Have you even played the F11F1?

That thing turns like a bus. Yes you have speed (eventhough you get uptiered to 9.7 most times, where your speed is just average), but that alone doesn't help you doing kills.

 

Aim9Bs just catch unaware targets and you can hardly bring your guns on target, since you CAN NOT TURN. You are not flexible at all.

If you have a fast enemy on your 6, then good luck because there is almost nothing you can do.

It is doing fine at 9.0

 

Indeed I have. Seeing as that our player names are literally posted right next to our comments, you could easily figure this out for yourself.

 

Currently running a 9:1 across 430 games with a >2 KPB, in part because the plane is undertiered and gets into 8.0 games.

 

 

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Why drop the F-4C to 10.3? It’s underperforming yes but that’s because of the refusal to give it AIM-7Es and AIM-9Js, when both have been bug reported for months now. So instead of just, giving it missiles that are the standard of that BR, you drop it to what is basically the same BR, where it will fight the same planes and still underperform. Is there a logical reason behind this? The 10.7 MiG-21s all get R60s if they carried them. And let’s not even begin to talk about the MiG-19s getting to club the heads of Sabres in now. I’m sure that will be great. Or the fact that the A-7D is still 9.7. I’m just in general at a loss for words for why the devs seem so adamant on making jet BRs as unenjoyable as humanly possible. Venoms and Sabres now fight alongside AV8s, A-7s, F-100s, EELs, and now MiG-19s. I’d say the BRs need decompressed but the devs know this and just outright refuse to do anything about it. 

Edited by dannoworld

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10 hours ago, GopnikTank said:

What a about t-80b? I agree completely in what you said, but t-80b should stay where it was. It can go to 10.3 and still be good. My friend plays t-80b and has no problem fighting leo 2a5/a6, m1a1/a2, challies 2

T-80B is 10.0 right now, you are confusing it with T-80U. 

 

T-80B has worse armor than T-72A and is less mobile than T-80U. Its in no way a viable 10.0, and absolutely needs the downtier to 9.7. It gets lolpenned by 105mm DM23. 

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6 hours ago, Snake509 said:

If you're going to lower the M48 and T-44 100, you should lower all of the other 7.3 tanks to that level, like the Centurion MK3 and the M47, AMX-13-90 and the Type 60 ATGM.

Type 60 ATM is already 7.0. As is the Cent Mk.3 (which was literally just moved up to 7.0 since it was overperforming at 6.7). 

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