Jump to content

Why are there so many constraints to player progression on this game?


20 minutes ago, ThatRedDot said:


Yes you will... go start a new account, go play each plane in air RB until spaded and start playing the next plane you unlocked after. You will run out of SL even on premium. It isnt until you start playing with already spaded vehicles and not buying everything you unlocked, that you start gaining SL. This has also nothing to do with your performance in terms of KD/KB as that is directly linked to RP and SL gain anyway. You obviously havent started a new account recently and base your input on your already existing account.

I did started an account 8 years ago, and I'll not get a new one. 

 

But i know that with Premium, I'll not have trouble, because by my own skills and experiences, I'll certainly have more victories than when i started  8years ago. 

 

I was able to play up to 5 nation at a time of planes only and playing same BR for all nation up to actual 6.0(so tier/rank 4).

 

From those i played USA and Russia jets, then Japanese ones, i did researched some germans (8.0) and uk ones (9.0/8.7 Hunter F.1)

 

Then i started to play Italian to G.91R1, and France up to Mirage III-C. 

 

Mostly without premium, i did got a total of 6 months over 8years of premium. 

 

I know that i struggle off to 20 games, before being able to buy the AV-8C and Jaguar A at the same time.

As i will buy also F3D-1 while i research F-104A.

 

Since Battle wagers are possible, i guess I'll have to use some in a nearest future, but i do not have used a lot of them, to get all those planes. 

 

As a side note i also play tanks, in quite High BR for each 5 nation firstly introduced in, as French one. 

Edited by Cpt_Bel_V
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, shanrocks1 said:

I agree to most of what you said. Having people access vehicles that they want to get go or easily would kill the game and playerbase. Also though the grind is way to long for a starter new player. Luckily, I started out in 2015/2016. Newer players right now jump in wanting to play the Abrams and leo 2 only to see that they either need to drop 60usd to get a vehicle that might be good and enjoy playing that for 2-3 weeks to get to top tier or grind via the tree. As you know that the grind after tier 2 is absurdly long. Now imagine being a f2p player and getting to tier 4 on any tech tree only to start paying 5-6k per vehicle (depending on what nation). That would be a instant turn away for me as it forces the player to actually spend money on premium time to actually break even. Now, it easy to break even playing but we also need to keep in mind that not everyone really cares about winning or getting high k/ds. Some people just want to relax and play a iconic vehicle or just waste some time. Warthunder is already a niche game in a ww2 genre and removing silver lions would do alot to help f2p players and veteran players, after all having near to 100million lions is gonna hurt who? After all, I've seen veterans have that type of cash.

 

That's if you are knowledgeable on what's meta and what's what. For people like us who have been playing for some time can in a heartbeat distinguish the difference between tanks, knowing the Weakspots and know what ammo to use and where to fire. We know what tanks to use to grind and which tanks are meta instantly before release because we breathe the game. When I first started out, I didn't even know the difference between heat, sabot, apbc, he, shrapnel shot, etc. I didn't know any thing about tanks or planes.  

if I had to start over the game, I would certainly not play it

  • Upvote 3
medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Arium said:

Removing SL would do me no good along with many others. It would mainly help new and bad players, and I say "bad" because those refusing to use options to make their situation better is in my mind not playing as good as they could, which make them worse. So "bad" it is. 

I know a lot of players that have gone past 100+ millions, and even past that by far. I'm currently at 138m right now, short of 139m,  SL_Millions_Arium_138m_small.thumb.jpg.3 . Some other players that I did have screenshots of (which might be a bit old now) have more than double that SL_Milions_Maximus_350m_small.thumb.jpg.  and  SL_Milions_Redbull_599m_small.thumb.jpg. . There are people not using premium or barely premium vehicles that also have reached millions of spare SL. I really want people to know that it is possible, if they want it. It is a choice.

Might do you and others no good but will help F2p and "Bad" players. I mean its better to look at the greater good then to adjust how things are by looking at the few people who do good in the game. Also people dont refuse options to better situations that they find themselves in game. They just choose not to put the brainpower to make it better. After all, its a game and most people want to relax and play. Not worry about how much they need to angle there armor to deflect a shot or anything. 

 

Ps Forgot to add but DAMMN thats alot of silver lions. You guys play arcade all the time? Is it possible to make that type of cash in realistic? I must be missing out on something because I normally reside between 1-2 mill

Edited by shanrocks1
medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, shanrocks1 said:

Might do you and others no good but will help F2p and "Bad" players. I mean its better to look at the greater good then to adjust how things are by looking at the few people who do good in the game. Also people dont refuse options to better situations that they find themselves in game. They just choose not to put the brainpower to make it better. After all, its a game and most people want to relax and play. Not worry about how much they need to angle there armor to deflect a shot or anything. 

 

Ps Forgot to add but DAMMN thats alot of silver lions. You guys play arcade all the time? Is it possible to make that type of cash in realistic? I must be missing out on something because I normally reside between 1-2 mill

The greater good is all fine, but developers should never dumb a game down because bad players can't handle it. Lowering the bar ruin it for everyone.

There are a lot of people that refuse to invest money in F2P games, because it require investing money. Those people will need to invest time instead to reach the same progress. I've stopped counting all the "why should I play something I don't want" long time ago, which overall tend to be players that want to play for example top tier but are not good enough to economically handle it, so they want the game to change to fit them instead of accepting their available options. There's a post/comment about this almost everyday on the forum, reddit or steam forum. The harsh reality is that they need to acknowledge their situation, skill level and goals, then make the best out of it.

 

As long as they do not worry about the angle of their vehicle, angle of attack, aim their shots, etc, they accept mediocre results and therefore can not play for example expensive vehicles without considering alternative SL options in the current format. I think that is fine. To get mediocre results, you make mediocre choices. There's no illwill beind that, it's just how it works.

 

There are a big bunch that play RB that have 100-400+ millions too, yeah. Those 3 pictures I posted are from people playing mainly AB. It's doable in RB as well, as "comfortable BR" also include game mode. Play the game mode and BR you feel you can do your best in to get the best results. Less deaths and more kills, assists, caps, etc will lead to more gains.

  • Like 1
  • Confused 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 19/01/2021 at 01:30, Facilitador said:

A few things first. I'm a F2P player. Also, I don't think I'm good at this game. So, if your solution is to tell me to "get gud" or "buy premium because in 2 days I earned 1 brazillian of silver lions", you can just save it. I'm not saying that you're wrong. You're right, I want to get gud and I also want to buy premium.

 

Here it is how things are with this game:
Free to play, yes but only low-mid levels. Honestly I'm not even sure how high can average player sustain himself in true F2P ways. Possibly to BR 5?

You're truly losing nothing if you keep to mid tiers. Many would say game is designed to be played this way, it's most fair and most fun and feels like tactical armor game rather then crazy CoD clone, you will see later. 

If you are serious about the game and can invest bit of money, you get premium account for a year when 50% discount hit in November. It's around 40 euros and it's a fair deal. If you invest lot of your time in game, this is the logical solution.

All else is optional. You can earn money and get various premium vehicles throughout your gameplay. You can get higher tier premium to ease you high level grind which is very intensive, if you plan to venture to high tier at all. To use BR 8.3-9.0 premiums to grind low tier vehicles is stupid imo because you deprive yourself of actually having fun playing them. 

 

I generally do not invest in ace qualification if I just play thru techtree. If I have some lineup that I'll return to to do various battle tasks and events, like IS6 lineup I have BR 7.3, I will generally buy the SL expert qualifications for most vehicles. 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like to make it clear: I'm not against progression. Actually, I do love some grinding. I play games mostly to relax and enjoy the universe of the game.

 

I don't want and wouldn't like a grind with the ease as Battlefield, for example. It wouldn't fit this game.

 

But I don't think it is doing this game any good denying and making excuses to the state of the progression and how cumbersome it is.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your problem is; not playing more than one nation and moving up the ladder too fast.

 

One should wait until they have two units of the same BR before moving up. Also, one should stay at the  previous BR level until you get more cre level experience and experience.

 

Crew level makes a big difference. Experience even more.

 

Yes, I agree the grind is a pain but one need premium and more experience.

Edited by VT_88
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the grind would not be a problem if the game modes would be fun... like enduring with missions is.
you forgot about the market place btw... there is also that... lottery and speculation in there and I don´t even know if it is really allowed by my country laws to be honest, I don´t even think this game has a +18 PEGI but probably because of the market place and lottery boxes, it should have a +18 PEGI and be taxed like Poker and lottery at least in my Country... let´s not even talk about that for now...

Anyway, I like how research points and silver lions work honestly and it is understandable that they need and want to make money from their game...the problem is how much and how you want to make it, with broken stuff? I hate F2P games to be honest, if there was any game like war thunder, without F2P mechanics I would play that instead, instantly, without even thinking. I mean, LIKE NOW. Very Fast.
F2P sucks. A game has to be bought because it costs money to be made and because F2P destroy every game I have seen.

Free to Play is the false name, the true name is Free to Pain.
Free to Play mechanics are destroying even normal games because they are starting to be the same thing.
Time eating, money eating, unbalanced games. Because you have to be attracted from P2W vehicles.

XM1 was at 9.0... just to tell you... and they have sold a lot of them. Fixed to 9.3 after they sold tons 40-60€ each.
IS6 was 6.7...they have sold a lot of them. Fixed to 7.3 after they sold tons 20-30€ each
Leopard L44 was 8.7 they have sold a lot of them. Fixed to 9.0 only after they sold tons 40€ each
Should I continue? IS that not obvious how F2P works?
Ka-50? how many where sold? Peoples bought that because how broken it was. 40€ each

Lets make a conservative example of one possible selling amount.
40 x 2000 players = 80000€

or maybe
40 x 5000 player = 200000€

I dont know how much they sold of them, but as you can see you can make a lot of money with just 1 tank, 1 model.
F2P for you. 1 tank costs like 1 big game.

Edited by _SOLITARIO_
  • Thanks 1
medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not think anyone mentioning boosts and talsmen.

 

One needs to know how to use them.

 

That will make a big difference.

 

Also each unit has a unique SL and RP reward so, using those units make a big difference.

 

Butt... the biggest difference everyone fails to make is...................................

 

 

Team work. You make a lot more if you play for the win.

 

Grind is not bad at all when you win most of the time.

 

AND yes, that means sacrificing your plane or tank at times.

 

 

medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, _SOLITARIO_ said:

the grind would not be a problem if the game modes would be fun... like enduring with missions is.
you forgot about the market place btw... there is also that... lottery and speculation in there and I don´t even know if it is really allowed by my country laws to be honest, I don´t even think this game has a +18 PEGI but probably because of the market place and lottery boxes, it should have a +18 PEGI and be taxed like Poker and lottery at least in my Country... let´s not even talk about that for now...

Anyway, I like how research points and silver lions work honestly and it is understandable that they need and want to make money from their game...the problem is how much and how you want to make it, with broken stuff? I hate F2P games to be honest, if there was any game like war thunder, without F2P mechanics I would play that instead, instantly, without even thinking. I mean, LIKE NOW. Very Fast.
F2P sucks. A game has to be bought because it costs money to be made and because F2P destroy every game I have seen.

Free to Play is the false name, the true name is Free to Pain.
Free to Play mechanics are destroying even normal games because they are starting to be the same thing.
Time eating, money eating, unbalanced games. Because you have to be attracted from P2W vehicles.

XM1 was at 9.0... just to tell you... and they have sold a lot of them. Fixed to 9.3 after they sold tons 40-60€ each.
IS6 was 6.7...they have sold a lot of them. Fixed to 7.3 after they sold tons 20-30€ each
Leopard L44 was 8.7 they have sold a lot of them. Fixed to 9.0 only after they sold tons 40€ each
Should I continue? IS that not obvious how F2P works?
Ka-50? how many where sold? Peoples bought that because how broken it was. 40€ each

The game is fun. If it's not, then it's either not for you or you're doing it wrong somewhere. What do you expect them to do regarding subjective issues anyway?

Everything in life is "free to pain".

 

Premium vehicles are not immune to BR changes. Of course they are going to get changes to them if needed. Bug fixes, BR changes, repair costs, etc. It's silly to assume you'd keep a "broken" vehicle just because you bought it. Would the same expectation occur if the change would make the vehicle better? 

 

 

  • Confused 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Arium said:

The game is fun. If it's not, then it's either not for you or you're doing it wrong somewhere. What do you expect them to do regarding subjective issues anyway?

Everything in life is "free to pain".

 

Premium vehicles are not immune to BR changes. Of course they are going to get changes to them if needed. Bug fixes, BR changes, repair costs, etc. It's silly to assume you'd keep a "broken" vehicle just because you bought it. Would the same expectation occur if the change would make the vehicle better? 

 

 


The gameplay of this game needs improvement, especially at top Tier.
If I am here to talk about this game, is because I love it and want improvement.
But I hate F2P games and mechanics, this is all I was saying, as a gamer. I just went a little off topic, that is all.

Yeah even premium vehicle changed BR. Is what I said.
But always from a lower to an higher...strange eh.
Is not a crime, but please lets be honest to ourselves.

I asked so many times to fix the XM1 and Leo L44...
One day I was so tired of that unbalanced situation, that I bought them both telling my self, If me and others buy them, they will finally fix them because they made enough money from that. And you know what? they did it the week after.
This is not because they are evil...maybe... but because if you are a F2P game, this is what you do. Always.
I don´t know if they did that on purpose, but they sure waited longer than much it was needed before fixing them for a reason. :016: :D

Edited by _SOLITARIO_
medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, _SOLITARIO_ said:

The gameplay of this game needs improvement, especially at top Tier.
If I am here to talk about this game, is because I love it and want improvement.
But I hate F2P games and mechanics, this is all I was saying, as a gamer. I just went a little off topic, that is all.

F2P isn't really going away.

 

38 minutes ago, _SOLITARIO_ said:

Yeah even premium vehicle changed BR. Is what I said.
But always from a lower to an higher...strange eh.
Is not a crime, but please lets be honest to ourselves.

Yes, let's be honest. What is the alternative? To leave overpowered vehicles at their BR's so people who buy them can have an easier time, because they put money on it? That is definitely closer to "pay to win", which is not very appreciated among many. Premium vehicles are just like tech tree vehicles in the sense that if they are too powerful at their current BR, they will go up. The only difference is that you pay for higher SL and RP multipliers. That's the thing that set the vehicles apart. We don't pay to keep vehicles unbalanced or broken. So it's completly fine for let's say the IS-6 to move up from 6.7 to 7.3 as an example. We have tech tree vehicles that have moved from 6.3 to 7.0, and still are amazing to play. Of course these vehicles shouldn't have stayed at 6.3 either.

medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Arium said:

F2P isn't really going away.

 

Yes, let's be honest. What is the alternative? To leave overpowered vehicles at their BR's so people who buy them can have an easier time, because they put money on it? That is definitely closer to "pay to win", which is not very appreciated among many. Premium vehicles are just like tech tree vehicles in the sense that if they are too powerful at their current BR, they will go up. The only difference is that you pay for higher SL and RP multipliers. That's the thing that set the vehicles apart. We don't pay to keep vehicles unbalanced or broken. So it's completly fine for let's say the IS-6 to move up from 6.7 to 7.3 as an example. We have tech tree vehicles that have moved from 6.3 to 7.0, and still are amazing to play. Of course these vehicles shouldn't have stayed at 6.3 either.


I am starting to believe you don´t understand anything I said.
read better.
Just one string for example: "I asked so many times to fix the XM1 and Leo L44..."

read better and then we can continue to talk

Edited by _SOLITARIO_
medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, _SOLITARIO_ said:

I am starting to believe you don´t understand anything I said.
read better.
Just one string for example: "I asked so many times to fix the XM1 and Leo L44..."

read better and then we can continue to talk

I read that. Fix what? What I replied to was the change of BR, which should not be to any surprise even for premium vehicles. If you want to bring up a problematic premium vehicle, look at the Strv103-C, I think it's called. Aiming with it is very problematic as it also struggle with the suspension at the same time. The XM-1 and the Leo L44 are at least playable where they are.

medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do agree with you on the ‘crew training cost’.

 

Always found it very frustrating you spend all that hard earned SL on a vehicle and the have to fork out another third of that cost on training the crew.

 

Why can’t my crew who are already trained on a T10M drive a T10A without more training? For example.

 

I’d like to see them meet us in the middle here, I’d suggest first crew allocation is free and any crew switches after that cost the normal price.

medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 19/01/2021 at 04:06, Facilitador said:

But then we add SL. And following the same logic as above, do higher BRs in WT yield more SL than lower BRs? Not necessarily. This may become an issue.

 

Then I'll play lower BRs because it yields the same amount of SL and RP than higher BRs so I can research my 9.0 vehicle. But I can't quite accomplish this because there is a system in place that doesn't let me collect the full amount of RP if I'm researching a vehicle that's more than one rank apart from the ones I would like to use.

 

If you have such qualms about WT already, I wholeheartedly recommend you quit the game now, before you invest any more of your time into it.

On 20/01/2021 at 21:57, Thorien_Kell said:

Free to play, yes but only low-mid levels. Honestly I'm not even sure how high can average player sustain himself in true F2P ways. Possibly to BR 5?

You're truly losing nothing if you keep to mid tiers. Many would say game is designed to be played this way, it's most fair and most fun and feels like tactical armor game rather then crazy CoD clone, you will see later.

 

This.

medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 19/01/2021 at 18:09, Facilitador said:

So you agree, there are different constraints. Now, you're yet to answer my question. Why are there so many constraints to player progression on this game?

 

isn't that called "content"?

In WT early days there was way way less things to research and way way less nations 5.  Only planes etc etc.

Don't forget you play on a game which evolved quite a lot...

when you set a race, class, skill tree on a rpg on one character this won't transfer to the next one on the same account. same here.

medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lately crew has been the most annoying part to me, as I realised how I actually like my line ups and the game doesn't allow me to easily rearrange them.

 

I figured the my best possible load out would be to tie a tree line to a crew slot. That way I always have maximum variety no matter the mission. If I need a light tank, I'll just pick that one, if i need an interceptor same story. Sure, there might be situations where I'd like to bring two vehicles of the same type to a match but this ensures that always have options. It's usefull not only in GF RB but also in stuff like SIM, which stops you from using higher br vehicles.

 

However I only managed to somewhat do this in two nations, the Japanese and French air trees as I've only recently started grinding. And doing this for other nations I have developed would be extremely time consuming and costly because:

 

  1. You don't get all crew slots by default and getting more than 5 costs progressively more GE.
  2. Each crew slot needs to be individually leveled to a specific vehicle type (so for example I have a tank where I'd like my phantom to be)
  3. I have expert and aced vehicles, something that won't be carried over to other crews making Acing an extreme commitment.
  4. This last point is a nitpick but the fact that I can't even move the slot around so it looks more aesthetically pleasing is just frustrating, it also doesn't allow me to make way for a new tree line, like what happened to the Italians and the Re 2005 line.

This coupled with the slow progression on crew levels makes getting a nation into a position I like basically impossible in a reasonable time frame without spending GE, which means spending real money.

Suppose I start on Air RB and put all the planes into one crew because it progresses faster and then want to try GF or EC and now I have tie those vehicles all over again and level up each crew.

 

Research points are also slow progressing, especially in a F2P scenario and this just hurts WT's main selling point. It's massive library.

To reply to

On 19/01/2021 at 00:40, Thorne1 said:

You don't need to play all nations.

You don't need to play all modes.

 

No, you don't, but if you want to the game is stacked against you. What's the point of advertising ever more end of the line vehicles across ever expanding trees if a new player is lucky to experience playing two within a year? Not to mention those take even longer to reach their full potential.

 

If I may offer a solution, I say we turn to Convertible RP and make it a secondary universal currency for Premium account users. What I mean is that if you were a premium you'd be able to use it freely or at a vastly reduced cost not only for vehicle research but also modification research, crew point research or even convert it to lions.

As it stands it's just way to expensive so there's no motivation to even touch it.

This solution would encourage players to get a premium account and allow people to more easily climb the trees and experience more of the game, and even may convince veterans that left the game to come back get up to speed with the rest of the playerbase.

Sure, you may argue that a veteran may just buy for a day, do everything he needs to do and effectively cheese the entire process for free but I'm sure we can find standards to prevent this, like requiring a 180 day account purchase at minimum to use the benefits.

 

Quality of life is very poor in WT and some of it's systems seem very outdated. It's enough that newbs have to deal with the learning curve of understanding the basic vehicle mechanics and each individual vehicle, why also hit them with a crew and economy system that requires forethought and a LOT of time. 

Edited by PauloMr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

On 20/01/2021 at 13:17, _Reddot said:


Yes you will... go start a new account, go play each plane in air RB until spaded and start playing the next plane you unlocked after. You will run out of SL even on premium. It isnt until you start playing with already spaded vehicles and not buying everything you unlocked, that you start gaining SL. This has also nothing to do with your performance in terms of KD/KB as that is directly linked to RP and SL gain anyway. You obviously havent started a new account recently and base your input on your already existing account.

 

Please don't make multiple accounts, it's against Gaijin's terms of service.

 

----

 

As for the OP, I understand the confusion with all these systems in place, but I ultimately think having them does more good then harm. Having played the game for 6 years f2p and buying premium only this year I think in my opinion the grind is much harder as a f2p, but not impossible if you do some budgeting. Patience will also help in this regard, although I know people don't like not getting things quickly.

 

On 19/01/2021 at 00:30, Facilitador said:

Golden Eagles? Premium account? Battlepass? Premium vehicles? There are just TOO MANY OPTIONS and all of them, directly or indirectly impacting player performance in a PvP game.

 

War thunder is a PvE game also. Someday more people will realise Historical Campaigns and Single Missions exist as well as some other modes I believe.

 

Hope you find a way to traverse this problem with player progression, or suggest ways to Improve it through the appropriate channels, Good Luck ^^.

Edited by AbigailxCake
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Repair costs for f2p are crippling.. you just need to crest a hill at the wrong moment and you know that it's back to tier 4 bombing missions for the foreseeable future.. I let my premium expire some years back and occasionally return to see what's new, but the cost of maintaining the gear I've grinded years to acquire has stopped me reinvesting.

medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I Have premium, and use premium vehicles as well.

 

But the grind is just too much, i understand the need to make the game to last, but its literally taking the enjoyment out of the game and your not retaining players by doing this

  • Thanks 1
  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, AbigailxCake said:

Please don't make multiple accounts, it's against Gaijin's terms of service.

Or if you are going to break the TOS, maybe don't provide evidence you're doing it in the primary subpage of the company's official forums. That's also a thing you could maybe do.

  • Haha 1
medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...