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What's next for top tier ground vehicles?


25 minutes ago, senzawa said:

2A5 upgrade was supposed to consist of many more things but it in the end didn't, just because something is "planned" doesn't mean the end product will look like that, but please, since you're such a fanboy that you have to resort to basically insulting me, do feel free to belive in what Dr_Pavel wrote, not that any of those changes are definite and set in stone.

 

No matter, AMV won't be coming to WT anytime soon, we will prolly see a 2A7V and M1A2C faster than the AMV.

Again proving to me you don’t know what you’re talking about. The 3 AMV tanks that are being made as we speak are going to be what is planned. The 3 tanks are all prototypes, the first being upgrades to the hull, the second being upgrades to the turret, and finally the third with both hull and turret upgrades. THEN ONLY IF there are things from the program that need to be changed, will get changed in the actual AMV upgrade for the C1 Ariete. 

I have not once insulted you, I only asked if you know what you’re talking about because you clearly don’t. I mainly said it because I replied to the person before you with the correct information while you reply later with the wrong information. 

Again, I’ve mentioned the AMV is still to early to think about, as I’m not going to make a suggestion for it, however I mentioned that due to the known upgrades being released to us already, we already know what the tank will have improved over the current ones. Next time do some research. 

5 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

Is there any actual working prototype for ariete amv atm?

 

If not, Italy are screwed.

 

Right now it’s not known, as it’s under development, in the coming months more info will be given out as the prototypes are expected to be finished  this year or early next year. Italy is not screwed, I’ve already shown 2 other top tier worthy tanks multiple times on this thread and I’m kinda tired of mentioning it. The AMV isn’t needed, when you have more designs that are available. 

Edited by Nicholas_Concu
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7 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

Tbh from what i see the 2 other vehicles you mentioned are only probably 9.7 to 10.3 worthy.

 

 

Definitely not 9.7 or 10.3.

The Ariete with Hitfact, semi automatic loader, blast panels, and fires every nato standard round (such as the DM53 hint hint) 

Similar to the M60 Leonardo upgrade, although it doesn’t have the blast pannels, its a bit better protection wise. 

Edited by Nicholas_Concu
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44 minutes ago, senzawa said:

2A5 upgrade was supposed to consist of many more things but it in the end didn't, just because something is "planned" doesn't mean the end product will look like that, but please, since you're such a fanboy that you have to resort to basically insulting me, do feel free to belive in what Dr_Pavel wrote, not that any of those changes are definite and set in stone.

 

No matter, AMV won't be coming to WT anytime soon, we will prolly see a 2A7V and M1A2C faster than the AMV.

 

Truth be told, the programme was not as defined when I wrote that comment. Now, its spects have been semi-officially confirmed and its adoption set in stone by the Italian MoD. Don't get me wrong, I still believe Italy should get some other vehicles first (Dardo and its variants, Freccia, etc) but seeing how the AMV would have no significant aesthetic/layout change over the regular C1, I don't see it as far fetched as I did back then.

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13 minutes ago, Nicholas_Concu said:

Definitely not 9.7 or 10.3.

The Ariete with Hitfact, semi automatic loader, blast panels, and fires every nato standard round (such as the DM53 hint hint) 

Similar to the M60 Leonardo upgrade, although it doesn’t have the blast pannels, its a bit better protection wise. 

Did it actually fired or given any DM53 and was DM53 is the real nato standard round?

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Nicholas_Concu said:

Again proving to me you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Goal posting there I see.

 

38 minutes ago, Nicholas_Concu said:

THEN ONLY IF there are things from the program that need to be changed, will get changed in the actual AMV upgrade for the C1 Ariete. 

Ah yes, i'm sure that budget restrictions won't hamper them given what Pavel said that they're only "semi-confirmed", but gee what do I know considering such things happened in pretty much all other NATO countries.

 

38 minutes ago, Nicholas_Concu said:

I have not once insulted you, I only asked if you know what you’re talking about because you clearly don’t. I mainly said it because I replied to the person before you with the correct information while you reply later with the wrong information. 

I replied to him with "maybe, but we don't know" style of comment where I said nothing's confirmed, you came out and told me "oh you don't know anything" which is basically a passive insult 

 

38 minutes ago, Nicholas_Concu said:

Next time do some research. 

Next time learn to distinguish between comments that are definitive and comments that basically say "maybe".

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8 minutes ago, senzawa said:

Ah yes, i'm sure that budget restrictions won't hamper them given what Pavel said that they're only "semi-confirmed", but gee what do I know considering such things happened in pretty much all other NATO countries.

 

I only said "semi-confirmed" because I haven't been able to find a MoD-issued document saying what every other authored or first-hand souce says. The requirements are confirmed and the other document I linked, which is an official military report, addresses this very topic, ie how much will the Italian MoD be spending on what in the following year. Ariete AMV is among these spendings, and it's a document from two months ago. 

 

8 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

Right they do have access to it but it seems they did not adopt it and mostly use the CL3143 from what i heard.

 

Iirc, Centauro II tested those rounds a few months ago. I guess it's just a matter of time before the Italian MoD issues a stock purchase order. Besides, wouldn't even be a first if a tank was equipped with rounds it only trialled (hell, we even have vehicles with weapons they never used at all).

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On 17/01/2021 at 00:54, WolfFang2003 said:

Gaijn could literally add any Leopard 2 variant by KMW to Germany and there wouldn't be a fuss because it would be hypocrisy. I would rather wait on the Leopard 2a7V because it is too far. I would rather have a better backup or 2a5 equal like the 2a4M. The best armored German leopard 2 they could add is the 2a7+ or the 2a7 PSO. The only armor differences between the 2a7V, 2a7+, and 2a7 PSO are mostly addon armor like AMAP and other composite blocks. They don't even have to add a mbt when they could add a good German ifv (puma)

 

In all honesty, and I say that as a Germany main, I am against adding all the Leopard 2 variants, especially the ones that were never trialed by the Bundeswehr. That basically removes the 2A7+, 2A7+ PSO, 2A7+ UrbanOps, 2A7+ DuelOps (all the heavily uparmored variants that have similar addon applique armor like Strv 122A, B and C).

 

Germany has only one true IFV in the lineup currently, and that is the BMP-1. Begleitpanzer 57 isn't an IFV per definition.

 

On 17/01/2021 at 05:07, watch_your_fire said:

Good thing we don't have a Russian tech tree then. It's a Soviet tech tree. Ukraine is a former member nation of the Soviet Union.

 

Good thing then that no technology and tank that was developed/introduced after 26th of December 1991 should be added. Oh wait, they already did. Dammit. So much to your logic.

 

22 hours ago, Kocant12 said:

I think they could add a Strv122 with L55 cause I think 2a7v would have just as good armor and a better gun

Yes

 

Only that Strv 122 never even fielded the L/55 ... Sweden refuses to use L/55 because it is not practical for their doctrine.

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5 hours ago, Nicholas_Concu said:

 

Ariete Hitfact MK2 

Leonardo M60 upgrade 

+3 Ariete AMV. 
thats 5 tanks, for top tier. So no they’re not screwed. 

Well, being at a top tier BR is one thing, being able to compete with a tank like the 2A6 is another. Looking at what I think is a brochure from the manufacturer sight for the Ariete hitfact Mk.2 and Leonardo M60, I don't know if they could compete.

 

The ariete with the hitfact Mk.2 turret, while it seems it could be powerful, it does seem to be the peak of "don't get hit", not that the ariete isn't already that, but this seems like it would be even weaker armor wise. And unlike things like the M1(back when it was top tier) it also doesn't seem to have the mobility to make up for it. I cant even say it makes up for it in firepower, as while it does likely have an accelent reload rate because of its autoloader, it would be firing DM53 which while powerful, DM53 and rounds of similair performance are looking to become the standard top tier projectiles.

 

The M60 does seem more promising, as it likely does fire DM53, its armor does appear to be reasonable especially against autocannons and HEATFS, and like most other tanks can't withstand more powerful APFSDS projectiles. but to me what really seems the major flaws of this vehicle is its 908 hp engine. As its likely is around the same weight of the M60 AMBT, but the AMBT also has a 1200 hp engine. Granted, it would still likely have reasonable mobility, it would just be far from the best... probably similar to the Chally 2F mobility.

 

And finally the Ariete AMV, I don't know what to say about this upgrade... other than I cant even find any evidence that the prototypes have been completed yet.

 

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56 minutes ago, G3cko873 said:

Well, being at a top tier BR is one thing, being able to compete with a tank like the 2A6 is another. Looking at what I think is a brochure from the manufacturer sight for the Ariete hitfact Mk.2 and Leonardo M60, I don't know if they could compete.

 

The ariete with the hitfact Mk.2 turret, while it seems it could be powerful, it does seem to be the peak of "don't get hit", not that the ariete isn't already that, but this seems like it would be even weaker armor wise. And unlike things like the M1(back when it was top tier) it also doesn't seem to have the mobility to make up for it. I cant even say it makes up for it in firepower, as while it does likely have an accelent reload rate because of its autoloader, it would be firing DM53 which while powerful, DM53 and rounds of similair performance are looking to become the standard top tier projectiles.

 

The M60 does seem more promising, as it likely does fire DM53, its armor does appear to be reasonable especially against autocannons and HEATFS, and like most other tanks can't withstand more powerful APFSDS projectiles. but to me what really seems the major flaws of this vehicle is its 908 hp engine. As its likely is around the same weight of the M60 AMBT, but the AMBT also has a 1200 hp engine. Granted, it would still likely have reasonable mobility, it would just be far from the best... probably similar to the Chally 2F mobility.

 

And finally the Ariete AMV, I don't know what to say about this upgrade... other than I cant even find any evidence that the prototypes have been completed yet.

 

 

Well, it's inevitable. The only nations that will still be top of the game after every tank gets implemented will be US, Russia and Germany. However, not being the best doesn't necessarily imply not being good. If one day the Italian TT will have a lineup made up of M60A3, Centauro II, Ariete AMV, Ariete HITFACT, Draco and Freccia EVO it will definitely be competitive.

Edited by Dr_Pavel
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2 hours ago, G3cko873 said:

Well, being at a top tier BR is one thing, being able to compete with a tank like the 2A6 is another. Looking at what I think is a brochure from the manufacturer sight for the Ariete hitfact Mk.2 and Leonardo M60, I don't know if they could compete.

 

The ariete with the hitfact Mk.2 turret, while it seems it could be powerful, it does seem to be the peak of "don't get hit", not that the ariete isn't already that, but this seems like it would be even weaker armor wise. And unlike things like the M1(back when it was top tier) it also doesn't seem to have the mobility to make up for it. I cant even say it makes up for it in firepower, as while it does likely have an accelent reload rate because of its autoloader, it would be firing DM53 which while powerful, DM53 and rounds of similair performance are looking to become the standard top tier projectiles.

 

The M60 does seem more promising, as it likely does fire DM53, its armor does appear to be reasonable especially against autocannons and HEATFS, and like most other tanks can't withstand more powerful APFSDS projectiles. but to me what really seems the major flaws of this vehicle is its 908 hp engine. As its likely is around the same weight of the M60 AMBT, but the AMBT also has a 1200 hp engine. Granted, it would still likely have reasonable mobility, it would just be far from the best... probably similar to the Chally 2F mobility.

 

And finally the Ariete AMV, I don't know what to say about this upgrade... other than I cant even find any evidence that the prototypes have been completed yet.

 

As @Dr_Pavel said, not being the best doesn't mean being bad, look at Italy's top tier for example, is it bad? no, is it the best? also no, but is it good? Yes 100%.
And considering there is currently nothing for now that could go there, for MBT's, thats it, we get what we can get and honestly im more than fine with it. Also there is a very slight chance the Ariete Hitfact MK II will have better mobility, even if its minimal, the Hitfact turret was made to be low weight as for it to be installed on the B2 Centauro MGS, but also other hulls from different vehicles. And as i mentioned before, its not just DM53, there's more rounds it could fire, the cannon was made to fire any and all standard nato apfsds. For the M60, it will have its ups and downs as you say, but its still imo a very decent vehicle that has a place in game. 

Now to finish off with your AMV statement, right now the AMV is under construction, the prototypes as far as i know will be made using existing Ariete's, so the vehicle will still be there, just with the modifications added. The AMV as of now is not to be considered in the near future but more so the far future, as other vehicles that can get added once the program is complete, its just that if gaijin cant be patient and wants to add it before its made, theoretically they could as the information of the vehicles and their upgrades are already availbile to the public.

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11 hours ago, senzawa said:

2A5 upgrade was supposed to consist of many more things but it in the end didn't, just because something is "planned" doesn't mean the end product will look like that, but please, since you're such a fanboy that you have to resort to basically insulting me, do feel free to belive in what Dr_Pavel wrote, not that any of those changes are definite and set in stone.

No, Leopard 2A5 is Leopard 2A5.

 

The West Germans started something ambitious in the late 80s, called the KWS project that developed different levels of upgrade to the Leopard 2 platform.

  • KWS Stage I - Upgrade gun to 120mm L/55.
  • KWS Stage II - Wedge, upper hull and sideskirt armor upgrades.
  • KWS Stage III - New turret to house 140mm gun and autoloader.

 

Then suddenly the Soviet empire collapsed and Cold War was over. German army scaled back and put all these upgrades on hold. When Sweden went looking for a new tank in 1993, KMW offered the KWS II package to meet their protection requirement. Bundeswehr later ordered part of the KWS II for their existing tanks and Leopard 2A5 was born. KWS I was later ordered to further upgrade them into Leopard 2A6.

 

In the end of the day, I don't think the manufacturer expected BW to order all KWS upgrades even if the Cold War went on. It was simply a huge research to increase tank capability, to counter their expected "FST-2" Future Soviet Tank which was the Obj.479/490. Now with the concept passed on to the T-14 Armata, perhaps 130-140mm gun will see the light again.

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28 minutes ago, Dr_Pavel said:

The only nations that will still be top of the game after every tank gets implemented will be US, Russia and Germany.

I don't think that is the case however, most players will only spawn so many times. I personally find the average is around 3-5, however that number includes not only tanks, but also SPAA, and aircraft. France and Sweden with I personally believe have the ability to fight the big three because of this. Sweden with their Strv 121, 122A, and 122B along side their new SAM vehicle and possible future aircraft including the AJ 37 and possibly later versions of the Draken. Then the French have the Leclerc S1, S2, and SXXI(and a few other variants which are primarily export or generic upgrade packages), with their EC665 Tiger HAD, and planes like the Super Etenard as well as later versions of the Mirage III and countless other planes that I just can't think of at this time. I'm not saying Italy will be bad because it's not a primary TT, I just think that because of the way WT is, they might struggle a little.

 

2 hours ago, Nicholas_Concu said:

As @Dr_Pavel said, not being the best doesn't mean being bad, look at Italy's top tier for example, is it bad? no, is it the best? also no, but is it good? Yes 100%.

I know its not about being the best, I have played Russian and French jets, I know all about not about being the best. But sometimes it is nice just to be able to compete. Which, when I look at some of the options I don't know if they will. In a way, this almost reminds me of the MiG-15 standard back when it was 9.0. Is it the best? No, is it good? No, but it can be fun to play, and thats why I respect it being in the game, but it is nice to have things like the MiG-17 after it that is a very fun and a good vehicle. I wasn't trying to say "oh. These vehicles should be added because they won't be that good". I was just more tying to say I don't know if they would really be 10.7 worthy vehicles, and that maybe(heavy emphasis on maybe) they would be more 10.3.

 

2 hours ago, Nicholas_Concu said:

Also there is a very slight chance the Ariete Hitfact MK II will have better mobility, even if its minimal, the Hitfact turret was made to be low weight as for it to be installed on the B2 Centauro MGS, but also other hulls from different vehicles.

I didn't think of it that way, I guess it still wouldn't be M1 levels of mobility, but I guess that could still be reasonably mobile, and that could pair well with the 3rd gen thermals which IIRC it has.

 

2 hours ago, Nicholas_Concu said:

For the M60, it will have its ups and downs as you say, but its still imo a very decent vehicle that has a place in game. 

Oh, of course, just because it might not be a good vehicle doesn't mean it shouldnt be added. I personally don't like, and never will support the idea of "it wont be meta/good so dont add it". Every vehicle has a place in this game, i was just pointing out that while its a very good all around vehicle, it is still somewhat lacking in mobility.

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11 hours ago, Yedidya said:

Only that Strv 122 never even fielded the L/55 ... Sweden refuses to use L/55 because it is not practical for their doctrine.

My bad.

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I just sat through a few games of soviet top tier and IMO it's really clear that T-72 derivatives are worse than T-80 derivatives just because of how much that lack of mobility holds you back.

 

So, IMO, the T-80UK would be a good new top tier for the soviets. IIRC, all you gain compared to the regular T-80U is Shtora and a better turret drive, but that's honestly good enough for me.

 

If that's not enough, I'd recommend Object 195, the precursor to the T-14 Armata (and in many ways actually better, since object 195 mounts a 152mm cannon)

d8ijmtj5udy21.thumb.jpg.3c23daa171f1e304

Or they could add the Object 640 "Black Eagle" as has already been suggested.

 

Other people have suggested the T-84 BM Oplot and I think that would be really good as well but since WT is made by a Russian studio Ukrainian tanks could be bad PR.

Edited by watch_your_fire
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32 minutes ago, watch_your_fire said:

I just sat through a few games of soviet top tier and IMO it's really clear that T-72 derivatives are worse than T-80 derivatives just because of how much that lack of mobility holds you back.

 

So, IMO, the T-80UK would be a good new top tier for the soviets. IIRC, all you gain compared to the regular T-80U is Shtora and a better turret drive, but that's honestly good enough for me.

 

If that's not enough, I'd recommend Object 195, the precursor to the T-14 Armata (and in many ways actually better, since object 195 mounts a 152mm cannon)

d8ijmtj5udy21.thumb.jpg.3c23daa171f1e304

Or they could add the T-80UM2 "Black Eagle" as has already been suggested.

 

Other people have suggested the T-84 BM Oplot and I think that would be really good as well but since WT is made by a Russian studio Ukrainian tanks could be bad PR.

I have had it explained to me that T80UM2 i just a T80U using Drozd APS; and it's name has become a misnomer for Obj 640 (the actual black eagle) much in the same vein "T95" became a misnomer despite that tank being the Obj 195. Basically: That thread is irredeemably misinformed.

But yes, I would indeed like to see an Obj 640; bustle mounted autoloader firing at 15 rpm + Kaktus ERA all over the front? Sign me up, haha. It's basically a lengthened T80 with a new turret, so it's relationship is a bit like the T72 and T90, thus it would slot in very neatly right behind the T80U. 

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3 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

I have had it explained to me that T80UM2 i just a T80U using Drozd APS; and it's name has become a misnomer for Obj 640 (the actual black eagle) much in the same vein "T95" became a misnomer despite that tank being the Obj 195. Basically: That thread is irredeemably misinformed.

But yes, I would indeed like to see an Obj 640; bustle mounted autoloader firing at 15 rpm + Kaktus ERA all over the front? Sign me up, haha. It's basically a lengthened T80 with a new turret, so it's relationship is a bit like the T72 and T90, thus it would slot in very neatly right behind the T80U. 

Ah, wasn't aware. Updated my comment

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A T-80BVM could also be neat:

Base hull armor and mobility of a T-80U plus relikt and newer rounds.

Main downside IRL is the fact the turret is from a T-80B; however in Warthunder the Relikt would likely boost turret armor to something close to 650mm.

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55 minutes ago, watch_your_fire said:

If that's not enough, I'd recommend Object 195, the precursor to the T-14 Armata (and in many ways actually better, since object 195 mounts a 152mm cannon)

I would say the Object 195/T95 is a little too obscure to be modeled, info is also limited as it is newer. We know more about the earlier Object 477/490 (152mm/125mm), so maybe they would be easier to make in game.

 

55 minutes ago, watch_your_fire said:

Or they could add the Object 640 "Black Eagle" as has already been suggested.

The "Black Hawk" AKA T-80UM2 on parade was really more of a hoax. I believe those involved have admitted that it was not a functional tank and was only made to run around the test track.

They did make all kinds of plans for it, but 90-00s Russia was too poor to fund any of those. Some of the concepts have been incorporated into the Aramata.

 

From a "more iconic" approach, I think T-90MS and T-80BVM would be better suited as both have been accepted into Russian service. The T-80BVM is an extensive upgrade of T-80B, while the T-90MS is overall upgrade to T-90 with 1130hp engine and new turret.

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10 minutes ago, Loongsheep said:

I would say the Object 195/T95 is a little too obscure to be modeled, info is also limited as it is newer. We know more about the earlier Object 477/490 (152mm/125mm), so maybe they would be easier to make in game.

 

The "Black Hawk" AKA T-80UM2 on parade was really more of a hoax. I believe those involved have admitted that it was not a functional tank and was only made to run around the test track.

They did make all kinds of plans for it, but 90-00s Russia was too poor to fund any of those. Some of the concepts have been incorporated into the Aramata.

 

From a "more iconic" approach, I think T-90MS and T-80BVM would be better suited as both have been accepted into Russian service. The T-80BVM is an extensive upgrade of T-80B, while the T-90MS is overall upgrade to T-90 with 1130hp engine and new turret.

IIrc T-80BVM is an extensive modernization of T-80BV not the T-80B we have in game.

 

Which mean it should have same hull composite as T-80U

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1 minute ago, [email protected] said:

IIrc T-80BVM is an extensive modernization of T-80BV not the T-80B we have in game.

 

Which mean it should have same hull composite as T-8U

You are correct. Oldest T-80Bs are not worth the upgrade costs.

Just called it T-80B to differentiate it from T-80U.

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31 minutes ago, Loongsheep said:

I would say the Object 195/T95 is a little too obscure to be modeled, info is also limited as it is newer. We know more about the earlier Object 477/490 (152mm/125mm), so maybe they would be easier to make in game.

I'm somewhat unfamiliar with Object 477 and 490, I've seen it in a few threads on other forums but it's pictured with two different hulls and I'm not sure which is which. One hull seems to still have the drivers viewport weakspot, which makes it's armor a lot less impressive, whereas the other seems to have a layout closer to what we've seen from 195 and the T-14.

 

Though you're definitely right about these tanks being classified, so who knows if Gaijin could model them realistically. Object 292 with the 152mm might be the only one we get since it's apparently on display at Kubinka

31 minutes ago, Loongsheep said:

The "Black Hawk" AKA T-80UM2 on parade was really more of a hoax. I believe those involved have admitted that it was not a functional tank and was only made to run around the test track.

They did make all kinds of plans for it, but 90-00s Russia was too poor to fund any of those. Some of the concepts have been incorporated into the Aramata.

 

From a "more iconic" approach, I think T-90MS and T-80BVM would be better suited as both have been accepted into Russian service. The T-80BVM is an extensive upgrade of T-80B, while the T-90MS is overall upgrade to T-90 with 1130hp engine and new turret.

Again, you're definitely right that service tanks are more likely to make it into the game, I just have a soft spot for those crazy prototypes. The Black Eagle being fake is the official stance held by the government, but I do find it kind of hard to believe, considering UVZ took the time to buy the rights to the project, and we've seen it moved multiple times in the years since it's cancellation. If it was just a mockup, I don't see why UVZ would keep towing it around and maintaining it, they would just let it rot.

1808247129_640BlackEagle.thumb.jpg.dc478

I'm no MBT expert though so maybe some other people in the thread can clarify. I guess, if it is a mockup, they did a good job fooling me:lol2:

 

Edited by watch_your_fire
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8 minutes ago, watch_your_fire said:

I'm somewhat unfamiliar with Object 477 and 490, I've seen it in a few threads on other forums but it's pictured with two different hulls and I'm not sure which is which. One hull seems to still have the drivers viewport weakspot, which makes it's armor a lot less impressive, whereas the other seems to have a layout closer to what we've seen from 195 and the T-14.

The Obj.477/490 started out way earlier in the mid 1980s so they probably have less advanced armor array. The West was aware of its existence and gave birth to the dreaded "FST-1" super tanks. They rushed to put 140mm cannon into Abrams and Leopard 2s.

 

96110-52eadb1e0324d9f61a094c8d4b95e348.j

 

Apparently, the Soviets made a bunch of similar prototypes. Reagan era arms race at its finest.

https://sturgeonshouse.ipbhost.com/topic/33-models-and-pictures-of-soviet-mbt-designs-from-80s-object-477a-object-490-buntar-and-object-299/

 

8 minutes ago, watch_your_fire said:

Though you're definitely right about these tanks being classified, so who knows if Gaijin could model them realistically. Object 292 with the 152mm might be the only one we get since it's apparently on display at Kubinka

I believe a number of documents about the 477/490 is also available.

The 477 is preserved, but not sure the location.

1320373914_4896652.jpg

 

 

8 minutes ago, watch_your_fire said:

Again, you're definitely right that service tanks are more likely to make it into the game, I just have a soft spot for those crazy prototypes. The Black Eagle being fake is the official stance held by the government, but I do find it kind of hard to believe, considering UVZ took the time to buy the rights to the project, and we've seen it moved multiple times in the years since it's cancellation. If it was just a mockup, I don't see why UVZ would keep towing it around and maintaining it, they would just let it rot.

The Black Eagle was definitely based on a T-80U hull, stretched to 7 wheels and with a redesigned turret to fit a safer autoloader. As to the actual stage of completion, we might never know but I doubt the one bouncing around in front of cameras could fire live rounds.

 

To think of it, the Chinese ZTZ-99 is in someway a spiritual successor to this concept, stretching a Soviet tank hull (inspired by T-72 they collected) and fitted with a bigger engine along with Western-style turret.

medal medal medal

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