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You can't win against German top tier


11 minutes ago, Loongsheep said:

This is the difference between combat-proven and unproven tanks.

Turkey's Leopard tanks have disappointed in Syria - Daily Mail | Ahval

 

Wym

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Just now, NoodleCup31 said:

Turkey's Leopard tanks have disappointed in Syria - Daily Mail | Ahval

 

Wym

You wanna know the story behind it? They welded the fire doors open, and the trained crew got arrested because of the coup back in 2016, so you literally had a untrained crew with open firedoors. :016:

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4 minutes ago, _Iluminas_ said:

but for real the tank is combat proven not exactly by germany but other nations that use it

also tanks get upgrades mostly for Theaters where they propalby get used so its understandable that the danish did not use the extra protection for mines etc 

Well AFAIK it was only used by Turkey in conventional combat, which wasn't... very good. The M60 Sabra had better armor against those threats than them.

Saudi is the only country that fielded and used two modern MBT extensively, and it prefers the upgraded Leclerc over M1A2S (most likely without DU).

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6 minutes ago, BeriY_ said:

You wanna know the story behind it? They welded the fire doors open, and the trained crew got arrested because of the coup back in 2016, so you literally had a untrained crew with open firedoors. :016:

To be honest the tank was toasted either way following the hit (300mm+ diameter HEAT warhead).

It is just about the survivability of the crew. Also, I think Turkey did a follow-up airstrike on the wreckage.

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Just now, Loongsheep said:

To be honest the tank was toasted either way following the hit (300mm+ diameter HEAT warhead).

It is just about the survivability of the crew. Also, I think Turkey did a follow-up airstrike on the wreckage.

I mean, you can't say it was doomed when the original trained crew got arrested, and some amateurs got put in. We don't know how the original crew would have reacted.

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29 minutes ago, Loongsheep said:

[...]a suspended "lie-down" driver seat.

Abrams and Challengers have them from the start, UK invented that with the Chieftain.

 

Citation needed.

 

Lie-down seats have nothing to do with IED protection, in fact they are much worse, as the human spine is not designed to take impacts from behind. 

They are lie-down as it reduces the hull Hight needed to fit the driver inside.

 

Last time I checked early Abrams seats looked like this: 

4fbfcf0aeab8ea1f77000005?width=900&forma

Must be using invisible cables where its mounted on the roof.

This challenger 2 seat must be using the same invisible cables:

The_interior_of_aCR2_zps697405d9.png

 

 

For refence a suspended seat looks like this (Leo 2A4M CAN):

9k.png

Edited by Yoshi_E
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18 minutes ago, Yoshi_E said:

Citation needed.

It is actually included in the original inquiry by the Danish government after the death of the driver.

I was able to quote it the last time I answered this topic (~2 years ago), but that document no longer shows up on Google.

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30 minutes ago, BeriY_ said:

You wanna know the story behind it? They welded the fire doors open, and the trained crew got arrested because of the coup back in 2016, so you literally had a untrained crew with open firedoors. :016:

QONVIyz.thumb.gif.3c80bac793ca6507d45011

 

 

 

 

21 minutes ago, Yoshi_E said:

Citation needed.

 

Lie-down seats have nothing to do with IED protection, in fact they are much worse, as the human spine is not designed to take impacts from behind. 

They are lie-down as it reduces the hull Hight needed to fit the driver inside.

 

Last time I checked early Abrams seats looked like this: 

4fbfcf0aeab8ea1f77000005?width=900&forma

They still look like that 

 

Source: was a M1 Armor crewman a M1A2B 

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1 minute ago, Loongsheep said:

It is actually included in the original inquiry by the Danish government after the death of the driver.

I was able to quote it the last time I answered this topic (~2 years ago), but that document no longer shows up on Google.

M-package does not change the driver position so it cannot be proven that lie down driver seat had an impact on crewman death or not.If's that a case then driver on 2A6M would also be dead.

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50 minutes ago, NoodleCup31 said:

Turkey's Leopard tanks have disappointed in Syria - Daily Mail | Ahval

 

Wym

A sidenote, if you will. Don't we have any information about the internal composite armour layout from those destroyed turkish leopards?

Edited by Taeblamees
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13 minutes ago, Taeblamees said:

Don't we have any information about the internal composite armour layout from those destroyed turkish leopards?

 

13 minutes ago, Taeblamees said:

A sidenote, if you will. Don't we have any information about the internal composite armour layout from those destroyed turkish leopards?

Likely C-Tech vehicles.

That ofc doesn't help when hit by IEDs or an ATGM in the side.

 

 

 

 

Edited by NoodleCup31
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1 hour ago, Loongsheep said:

Saudi is the only country that fielded and used two modern MBT extensively, and it prefers the upgraded Leclerc over M1A2S (most likely without DU).

 

Saudi's never used Leclercs. UAE uses Leclerc tanks however, and they have seen relatively limited use in Yemen, much less than the M1A2S. 

 

Their performance was fine for the most part, but the only time it took dedicated anti-tank fire from an older Konkur or Fagot missile, the front hull was penetrated, the driver killed and the commander wounded in the legs.

 

http://ultimaratio-blog.org/archives/8148

Edited by Jackvony
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3 hours ago, Loongsheep said:

Well AFAIK it was only used by Turkey in conventional combat, which wasn't... very good. The M60 Sabra had better armor against those threats than them.

Saudi is the only country that fielded and used two modern MBT extensively, and it prefers the upgraded Leclerc over M1A2S (most likely without DU).

I thought the Canadians used it in Afganistan or Irak werent they

Edited by _Iluminas_
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3 hours ago, Loongsheep said:

Well AFAIK it was only used by Turkey in conventional combat, which wasn't... very good

In a role it wasn't designed for, in an outdated version, with what's basically a conscript crew and no recoinaissance or support in open field

That  is like calling a recovery vehicle trash because it's gonna lose the direct engagement with an MBT lol

Edited by NoodleCup31
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On 24/01/2021 at 13:43, NoodleCup31 said:

 

Likely C-Tech vehicles.

That ofc doesn't help when hit by IEDs or an ATGM in the side.

 

 

 

 

I mean it could be that they sold B-tech vehicles over C-tech ones. The issue is whether or not they cared, or if Turkey had asked KMW to standardize them. It wouldn't matter anyway because ATGM shooting at them were into the side armor and whether or not they were hit by Turkey's artillery after abandonment.

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On 24/01/2021 at 11:59, Loongsheep said:

It was installed as "M" package because a Danish one hit a IED earlier and got the driver killed!:016:

That is exactly the case I included, also driver lacked a suspended seat that absorbs shock. None of Germany's own Leopard 2 got the belly armor installed, they are still vulnerable.

Thats not true. Germany has 2a6s, 2a6ms, and 2a7s. The 2a7V has it as standardization and the only tanks that lack it are the normal 2a6s because the 2a6ms were used to convert into regular 2a7s.

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I did 4 games in America top tier and so far I haven't won any. Germany was just spawn camping and a Ju288c 1 shotted my a7d which was bs.

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22 minutes ago, Kocant12 said:

I did 4 games in America top tier and so far I haven't won any. Germany was just spawn camping and a Ju288c 1 shotted my a7d which was bs.

I'm sorry but that's hilarious, kudos to the JU288 pilot

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German 8.7/10.7 line up is simply too good versus what other nation get currently. Eventually 2021 will be a year dedicated to acheive a sort of balance at top tier. And yes it's possible before you ask. Developpers simply need to add some few more meta vehicles to other nations seasoned with a bit more capable CAS.

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1 hour ago, Tantor57 said:

German 8.7/10.7 line up is simply too good versus what other nation get currently. Eventually 2021 will be a year dedicated to acheive a sort of balance at top tier. And yes it's possible before you ask. Developpers simply need to add some few more meta vehicles to other nations seasoned with a bit more capable CAS.

g.91 helps 8.7 because is completely broken mechanically

 

atgm fuses enemy atgm and proxy he

 

atgm digs a whole underground and does damage even when misses

 

bs roll rate flicking means radar doesn't even work

 

 

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4 hours ago, watch_your_fire said:

I'm sorry but that's hilarious, kudos to the JU288 pilot

Its hilarious, but still dumb

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