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You can't win against German top tier


2 minutes ago, senzawa said:

We're talking about their entire armour profiles, you said so yourself that 2A4s armour is quote on quote "better".

 

Considering you went from mine and Necron's; "M1IPs armour is better" to "uh oh 2A4 angling better", aren't you a bit lost here?

"Better" is subjective and Nercons rated it mainly from the "KE threat from direct front" while I rated it against threats from angled front and CE as well.

 

It seems you never really looked into the argument before jumping in with your own.

 

2 minutes ago, senzawa said:

So, me = German/Russian mains all of sudden?

No. It isn't directed to you and I would have named you if it was.

But hey, if the shoe fits.

 

2 minutes ago, senzawa said:

Yep, another excuse.

You know, sometime stats simply doesn't reflect the performance of a tank?

Like the Challenger 2 (before 2F) had some of the highest K/D rate at top tier for a while despite clearly inferior to the rest.

 

2 minutes ago, senzawa said:

Both will stop HEAT-FS.

The Abrams won't stop 120mm HEAT-FS like Leopard 2A4.

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12 minutes ago, Loongsheep said:

"Better" is subjective and Nercons rated it mainly from the "KE threat from direct front" while I rated it against threats from angled front and CE as well.

I'm sorry but you're just trying to dance your way out of this now, "angled front and CE" meanwhile 2A4 cannot stop HEAT-FS at 60 degrees AoE from the side yet M1IP can and both will let a DM33(105) through their sideskirts up to 80 degrees.

 

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Are we done?

Quote

 

You know, sometime stats simply doesn't reflect the performance of a tank?

Like the Challenger 2 (before 2F) had some of the highest K/D rate at top tier for a while despite clearly inferior to the rest.

M1IP isn't inferior to the 2A4, that's the point here dude.

 

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The Abrams won't stop 120mm HEAT-FS like Leopard 2A4.

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Edited by senzawa
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Might be a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy, all the best players (*cough* stat hogs) are spamming tier 6 Germany because it's the flavor of the month, which in turn drives up winrates, which attracts more players, and it loops back over

 

That's the only way I can explain the Soviets going from 70% to 40% in little over a month. I think the community has more power over how the game plays than people realize. All it takes is a few big YouTubers to say "you need to play x country at y BR right now" and suddenly the shift in attitude can manifest as better winrates, almost overnight.

 

Tangentially, I've been playing my newly acquired Chieftains and getting kills and winning games even while half stock. I don't know how, I don't know why, but I'm having an OK time even in the uptiers against G.91 spam. I think tier 6 Germany is a bubble, and I think it's going to burst, hard. Just don't know when.

 

Edit: To quell the argument happening above, I'll just say, the 2A4 feels like a really good tank to me, probably better than the T-80B and definitely better than the T-72B'89. Does that mean it's OP on its own? Probably not, in a lot of ways the Ariete Présérie at 9.7 is just as good and it hasn't ruined the game yet. I don't think 10.0 Germany is what people are losing to, it's clearly 9.3 that's doing the most damage, so maybe we'll save the 2A4 vs X for another thread?

Edited by watch_your_fire
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12 minutes ago, senzawa said:

Are we done?

Not until you compare turret side plate from 60 degree, where the Leopard 2A4 is clearly superior.

I don't have WT on this computer but you should already know that.

 

12 minutes ago, senzawa said:

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Never noticed that. Was the IPM1 patched a while ago? I recall it was like CE 200mm.

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10 minutes ago, watch_your_fire said:

Tangentially, I've been playing my newly acquired Chieftains and getting kills and winning games even while half stock. 

One thing about Centurion and Chieftain... is that they play similar stock to spaded.

 

You already got all ammo from the start as well as armor, with mods you get better gun handling, accuracy and mobility but not by much. Smoke might be the most worthwhile thing.

 

Another good thing is that the ammo is all free (except Chieftain Mk.10)

Just now, Thodin said:

Just accept that Abrams chassis' are superior. Always call German units OP is just childish.

There is no chassis in a tank.:curious:

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3 minutes ago, Loongsheep said:

Not until you compare turret side plate from 60 degree, where the Leopard 2A4 is clearly superior.

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In the end M1IPs armour is still superior.

 

3 minutes ago, Loongsheep said:

I don't have WT on this computer but you should already know that.

No, why would I know that.

 

3 minutes ago, Loongsheep said:

Never noticed that. Was the IPM1 patched a while ago? I recall it was like CE 200mm.

Dunno.

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3 minutes ago, senzawa said:

Dunno.

The front section of the Leopard 2A4 side skirt is about twice the thickness of the IPM1's one.

It seems rather strange that a thinner layer is able to achieve such high protection.

 

I know very late model Leopard 2A4 have received the A5 style side skirt block, boosting the protection.

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2 minutes ago, Loongsheep said:

The front section of the Leopard 2A4 side skirt is about twice the thickness of the IPM1's one.

Magic. That's my explanation for things that make zero sense in this game.

 

2 minutes ago, Loongsheep said:

It seems rather strange that a thinner layer is able to achieve such high protection.

It's more probable 2A4s side-skirts are underperforming.

 

2 minutes ago, Loongsheep said:

I know very late model Leopard 2A4 have received the A5 style side skirt block, boosting the protection.

 

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It appears newer skirts are also underperforming.

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13 minutes ago, Thodin said:

Just accept that Abrams chassis' are superior. Always call German units OP is just childish.

I find the Abrams easier to kill from the front, and the Leo 2 easier to kill from the side. Something about the crew spacing, I can't quite put my finger on it.

13 minutes ago, Loongsheep said:

One thing about Centurion and Chieftain... is that they play similar stock to spaded.

 

You already got all ammo from the start as well as armor, with mods you get better gun handling, accuracy and mobility but not by much. Smoke might be the most worthwhile thing.

 

Another good thing is that the ammo is all free (except Chieftain Mk.10)

Very true, it's nice not to have so much of your power level locked behind a grind. The Warrior is the exact opposite, with all of its trademark features locked behind quite a bit of grinding. Overall I'm enjoying 8.3, not so much because I find the tanks super strong, more that I just think they're cool. I think it's where my British tree will settle for the foreseeable future, seems like a comfy lineup to relax with.

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34 minutes ago, senzawa said:

Magic. That's my explanation for things that make zero sense in this game.

It's more probable 2A4s side-skirts are underperforming.

The real life Leopard 2A0-4 side skirt was designed to make the protection of whole frontal 60 degree arc up to Tech B requirement. We know the in-game Leopard 2A4 some how has Tech C turret armor, so the frontal side skirt module may or may not be upgraded.

 

I personally much prefer Gaijin to split the Leopard 2A4 into two tanks, one with full Tech B and other with Tech C armor. Should place them 9.7 (DM13) and 10.0 (DM23).

 

30 minutes ago, watch_your_fire said:

I find the Abrams easier to kill from the front, and the Leo 2 easier to kill from the side. Something about the crew spacing, I can't quite put my finger on it.

I find the crew spacing is large for both tanks. The Leo 2 is easy to kill if the hull ammo rack is loaded, but otherwise it gets harder. Usually takes 2 rounds for either tank.

 

30 minutes ago, watch_your_fire said:

Very true, it's nice not to have so much of your power level locked behind a grind.

Let's hope Gaijin doesn't find a way to...;)

 

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1 hour ago, Loongsheep said:

The real life Leopard 2A0-4 side skirt was designed to make the protection of whole frontal 60 degree arc up to Tech B requirement. We know the in-game Leopard 2A4 some how has Tech C turret armor, so the frontal side skirt module may or may not be upgraded.

 

I personally much prefer Gaijin to split the Leopard 2A4 into two tanks, one with full Tech B and other with Tech C armor. Should place them 9.7 (DM13) and 10.0 (DM23).

What's the current turret armour behind 2A5 wedges? I think it's supposed to be C tech and in 2A5 devblog gaijin mentioned ~600mm KE.

Edited by Taeblamees
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1 hour ago, Taeblamees said:

What's the current turret armour behind 2A5 wedges? I think it's supposed to be C tech and in 2A5 devblog gaijin mentioned ~600mm KE.

Tech C is nowhere near 600mm KE.

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15 hours ago, TumblerSnapper said:

Been working on spading my type 93 using my 10.7 lineup.

 

Type 93 =/= Leopard 2A6.

 

Quote

I can count the number of times out of the 81 games so far that I get a chance to even shoot at first spawn helis on two hands,

 

And I almost need two hands to count the number of first spawn heli's in any given match.

Oh boy, what's that? Literally three heli's in the very last match I played before typing this?

 

Afterwards, pretty much this happens:

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/krygzb/copsi_gets_10_kills_in_45_seconds_clearly_they/

 

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This is a ridiculous mindset. Pretty pointless to play the 2a6 because of helis?

 

Go play the Leopard 2A6, then report back to me after 10 matches.

 

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Welcome to literally every mbt,

 

KA-50's/KA-52's/Mi-28's are what are being spammed, therefore it only affects nations that aren't Russia itself, or are teamed with Russia.

At lower BR's there's the AH-1G spam.

 

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I would sympathize more with people saying "It's pretty pointless trying to play the X mbt against the 2a6 at the moment" than what you just posted.

 

''Whataboutism'' response.

Just because I claim the Leopard 2A6 is currently not worth playing, doesn't mean I'm saying that other MBT's are suddenly worthwhile, or don't suffer in their own ways.

 

If you have indeed kept track of my posts for a while as you said, you shouldn't be giving me these types of lines.

 

14 hours ago, Loongsheep said:

The turret armor of IPM1 [...] but covers less area,

 

If there is any MBT with a ludicrously wide mantlet weakspot, it's the 2A4.

 

Quote

while the main array of the Leopard 2A4 continues about half way on the turret side.

 

Having a massive mantlet weakspot is way larger of an issue than having less effective turret side armour.

 

 

Edited by Necrons31467
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2 hours ago, Loongsheep said:

. We know the in-game Leopard 2A4 some how has Tech C turret armor,

It

Does 

Not

 

The so called Leopard 2A4 in game is a complete Frankenstein.

The in game bugs are:

Spoiler

 

Missing 110mm composite in gun mantlet

Missing 60mm composite behind gun sight

Hull is not volumetric and thus underperforming as it's just two parts with fixed thickness

UFP should be around 350 KE 

Cheeks should be around 430 KE if B tech

 

Also it's historically impossible for the vehicle in game (at least on the turret) to be B tech.

 

In game, as far as I can tell, we have a Leopard 2A3.

Manufactured anywhere between December 1984 and December 1985.

 

This can be seen on the ammo door on the turret side, it had been welded shut on the tanks that were produced as 2A3s.

Vehicles that were produced as 2A4's did not have this door anymore at all.

Spoiler

The Leo 2A5 still has it because these vehicles, also known as KWS II or Mannheimer Konfiguration were a combination of old turrets (batches 1-4, before 2A4 production which lasted from batch 5-8) and new hulls.

 

In game we can also see the "Feldjustierspiegel" on the end of the barrel. 

This device was added first in 1991.

From 1995 onwards all older vehicles were brought up to the newest 2A4 standard (which included C-tech armor for the turret since the 97th vehicle of the 6th batch).

 

From this we can conclude that as long as the tank in game does NOT have C-Tech armor for the turret, it is not a 2A4.

 

 

 

Edited by NoodleCup31
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6 hours ago, Necrons31467 said:

 

Type 93 =/= Leopard 2A6.

Literally has no bearing on what I said. I didn't say it was. It was my opening statement on my interaction with the helo spam.

Quote

 

And I almost need two hands to count the number of first spawn heli's in any given match.

Oh boy, what's that? Literally three heli's in the very last match I played before typing this?

Exaggeration doesn't help your case. And lol that wasn't even the S-13DF rockets. You literally shot at a heli with a gepard for 7+ seconds without scoring a single hit. That is 100% on you.

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Over the top rockets against a team without a single AA. I believe the comments in that thread covers that pretty well.

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Go play the Leopard 2A6, then report back to me after 10 matches.

Just played the 2a5 and no heli spawned early. One spawned after our initial engagement and the first spawn flarakrad instantly killed the ka-52 before it even got close. I don't need to play more as germany because as Japan I face soviets every match. I get the same experience every nation gets except they are never on my team.

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KA-50's/KA-52's/Mi-28's are what are being spammed, therefore it only affects nations that aren't Russia itself, or are teamed with Russia.

At lower BR's there's the AH-1G spam.

Ok, so thats my point? It's not leo exclusive. Saying it's not worth playing is petty.

Quote

''Whataboutism'' response.

Just because I claim the Leopard 2A6 is currently not worth playing, doesn't mean I'm saying that other MBT's are suddenly worthwhile, or don't suffer in their own ways.

Literally nothing I said was "Whataboutism". I said I hold more sympathy to people complaining about the 2a6 (which isn't much) than people saying the 2a6 of all tanks isn't worth playing.

Quote

 

If you have indeed kept track of my posts for a while as you said, you shouldn't be giving me these types of lines.

I don't keep track, you just respond to a super majority of threads and argue with virtually everyone. Almost every thread that has a petty whiner (X IS OP, or remove X, etc) in it you argue with them regardless of stance or nation. Which is why I find it ironic to see you stooping to their level with sweeping statements.

 

Edited by TumblerSnapper
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32 minutes ago, TumblerSnapper said:

Literally has no bearing on what I said. I didn't say it was. It was my opening statement on my interaction with the helo spam.

 

Your experience in a non-German vehicle will be different from a German one.

 

32 minutes ago, TumblerSnapper said:

You literally shot at a heli with a gepard for 7+ seconds without scoring a single hit. That is 100% on you.

 

Dispite aiming for the reticule properly.

But that's besides the point, and you're moving the goalpost, the issue is whether or not there is a spam of KA-50's and it's likes stomping early on on opposing MBT's, specifically the 2A6 in this case.

 

32 minutes ago, TumblerSnapper said:

Over the top rockets against a team without a single AA. I believe the comments in that thread covers that pretty well.

 

Sigh...

 

The problem is that the German SPAA's don't work.

  • My main point is that playing the Leopard 2A6 is pointless, and here you are reinforcing this point without even realizing it. You're essentially telling me to just spawn SPAA instead of the Leopard 2A6... I don't seriously need to point out the irony there right?
  • The FlaRak and Flakbus missiles detonate in proximity to the rockets being fired, thus making the KA-50 itself immune to them.
  • Even if you do destroy a KA-50 (Ka-52, etc), they still retain control for a ludicrous amount of time and still consistently score numerous kills, even after the complete destruction of their engines and the removal of their tail section. Killing these heli's doesn't prevent them from killing numerous Leopard's and SPAA.
  • The Gepard is too close ranged, and you can't destroy three helis at once.
32 minutes ago, TumblerSnapper said:

Just played the 2a5 and no heli spawned early. One spawned after our initial engagement and the first spawn flarakrad instantly killed the ka-52 before it even got close. I don't need to play more as germany because as Japan I face soviets every match. I get the same experience every nation gets except they are never on my team.

 

First off, sample size of one is irrelevant.

Secondly, link me the server replay, I'd like to see for myself what was being spawned and what you faced.

 

32 minutes ago, TumblerSnapper said:

Saying it's not worth playing is petty.

 

Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it's petty, my experience tells me that it's the norm.

It's not worth it to experience the clusterf**k that is the top-tier, especially not to pay a 10K repair price every two minutes due to being killed 1 minute into the match by three helis.

 

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1 hour ago, Necrons31467 said:

 

Your experience in a non-German vehicle will be different from a German one.

It's not

Quote

Dispite aiming for the reticule properly.

You were off by a lot

Quote

But that's besides the point, and you're moving the goalpost, the issue is whether or not there is a spam of KA-50's and it's likes stomping early on on opposing MBT's, specifically the 2A6 in this case.

What goalpost?? There was never any goalpost. Spouting "GOALPOST" and "WHATABOUTISM" doesn't help you at all or better your argument. KA-50s and every non liquid explosive heli aren't an issue. The only issue is S-13DF rockets which are exclusive with 52s and 28s. Which can be instantly countered by anyone in an SPAA or preferably as your personal experience seems to show, a SAM.

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The problem is that the German SPAA's don't work.

They work just fine

Quote
  • My main point is that playing the Leopard 2A6 is pointless, and here you are reinforcing this point without even realizing it. You're essentially telling me to just spawn SPAA instead of the Leopard 2A6... I don't seriously need to point out the irony there right?

So basically, you have no desire to counter what frustrates you. Got it. Again, I do not have them spawn as much as you seem to so taking an MBT is never a "should I really?" moment. Sounds to me like you are just too burned out on top tier so every time it DOES happen to you its a much bigger deal than it should be.

Quote
  • The FlaRak and Flakbus missiles detonate in proximity to the rockets being fired, thus making the KA-50 itself immune to them.

If you fire a SAM at a heli already firing S-13DF rockets directly at you, you are already dead regardless. I fail to see how this is an argument. But yes, I know this. All proxy missiles work this way.

Quote
  • Even if you do destroy a KA-50 (Ka-52, etc), they still retain control for a ludicrous amount of time and still consistently score numerous kills, even after the complete destruction of their engines and the removal of their tail section. Killing these heli's doesn't prevent them from killing numerous Leopard's and SPAA.
  • The Gepard is too close ranged, and you can't destroy three helis at once.

Thats a Gaijin issue and one I agree needs to go. As for the Gepard, all non proxy SPAA is short ranged, that isn't germany exlusive.

Quote

 

 

Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it's petty, my experience tells me that it's the norm.

It's not worth it to experience the clusterf**k that is the top-tier, especially not to pay a 10K repair price every two minutes due to being killed 1 minute into the match by three helis.

 

Saying one of the stronger MBTs is "not worth playing" because it has a chance of suffering the same thing every other non soviet or chinese tank faces is ABSOLUTELY petty.

 

Really it just seems you need a break my man. At least from top tier. Maybe you need a few months off to cool down about it.

 

And as you said sample size and wanted me to link the replay, I will do even better for you. Currently playing 5-10 flarak spawn only games (10.7 matches) and we shall see how many first spawn helis there are.

Edited by TumblerSnapper
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2 hours ago, TumblerSnapper said:

So basically, you have no desire to counter what frustrates you. Got it.

 

EBR (1954) spam is a problem?  ''jUsT pLaY tHe cOuNtEr bRuH''

 

Quote

If you fire a SAM at a heli already firing S-13DF rockets directly at you, you are already dead regardless.

 

That's just the thing, they don't have to be aimed at you.

A helicopter that's multiple kilometres out is automatically facing pretty much everyone on your team, it doesn't matter if the rockets are aimed at you as they're always fired in your general direction, especially given that the team hasn't had the time to disperse from the spawn properly yet.

 

These missiles then detonate in proximity to said missiles, and it's incredibly difficult to counter that as he's got more rockets than you do missiles.

Just because some heli pilots don't exploit/know of this yet, doesn't change the fact that there are a lot that do.

 

Quote

Saying one of the stronger MBTs is "not worth playing" because it has a chance of suffering the same thing every other non soviet or chinese tank faces is ABSOLUTELY petty.

 

''Whataboutism'' returns.

 

Furthermore, I also said that top-tier in general is not worth playing, which you ignored.

 

Quote

Really it just seems you need a break my man. At least from top tier. Maybe you need a few months off to cool down about it.

 

I'm barely playing the game as we speak, that doesn't change the fact that these are legitimate issues.

Besides, helicopters being a cluster***k of a mess when it comes to ground-air balance has always been the case.

 

Quote

And as you said sample size and wanted me to link the replay, I will do even better for you.

 

I just want you to link me the replay.

Why aren't you?

 

Edited by Necrons31467
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Because unlike you I won't use anecdotal evidence. I told you I faced USSR every time in my Type 93, but you claim that playing AS Germany, would be different. So lets take a look.

 

Game 1: https://warthunder.com/en/tournament/replay/54510814389400456

* No first spawn helis. Hell no USSR at all. Absolute stomping win. 1 late spawn AH-64 killed shortly after it took off from helipad.

 

Game 2: https://warthunder.com/en/tournament/replay/54513468679191570

* USSR teamed with Germany. Only 1 early friendly KA-52 spawn and he literally crashes on his attack run, kills 1 C2. No enemy team early heli spawns. 1 Harrier, 1 F100, 1 Fj4b, 1 AV-8A spawn. Only 1 death from the harrier suiciding into someone after being shot down. I evaporate a late game huey spawn. Phone rang, went afk, came back dead to an apache right as the game came to a close. Bad loss.

 

Game 3: https://warthunder.com/en/tournament/replay/54517153761134460

* Axis vs Allies. No first spawn helis at all. No mid game air spawns at all. Die peaking after getting incredibly bored and our team half dead. We are 3 capped by this point so I just leave. No point taking a backup as the data needed was gathered.

 

Game 4: https://warthunder.com/en/tournament/replay/54519979849617430

*Axis vs Allies. Once again, no early spawn helos, though my team did cheer me on after spawning in a Flarak which is nice. Pointless though. Flarakrad and I clean house mid air spawns. No air deaths. Win

 

Game 5: https://warthunder.com/en/tournament/replay/54522797348165747

*Germany vs all. 1 friendly UHT early spawn who crashes on takeoff and 1 early mi28 crashes on ingress. Nothing else. In a hilarious turn of events, a friendly mig flies through my sams path on its way to a harrier and dies horribly. We both get a chuckle. Harrier then gets killed by me and bombs me while dead (. Take a backup to help team clear skies but game is over at this point. No early helis to worry about yet again. Bad loss

 

Game 6: https://warthunder.com/en/tournament/replay/54526276271678138

*Germany vs all. 1 Friendly UHT early spawn who dies instantly and one early KA-50 (note, *50* not an S-13DF carrier) that I instantly paste. No heli deaths. Only 1 mid/late game airspawn and it was crazy ivan in his IL-2. Die to an F-4C who outmaneuvers my last shot. Spawn in a bit later in heli but game ends right after. Win.

 

Game 7: https://warthunder.com/en/tournament/replay/54530330720808446

* Everyone vs US/UK. One friendly mi-28n spawn and an adats smokes it as soon as it approaches the battlefield. No other early heli spawns. Its night and mid game AH-1Z tries to be sneaky but end up getting a mobility kill as he flies into the ground. Other SAMs and I clear up late game aircraft. Strong win.

 

Game 8: https://warthunder.com/en/tournament/replay/54533242708637158

*Axis vs Allies. One early spawn peten and I kill it before it does any damage. No other early spawns. Only friendly airspawns going forward. Its a massacre and gg. Win.

 

Game 9: https://warthunder.com/en/tournament/replay/54536751696920339

* Axis vs Allies. 2 Friendly early spawns. UHT and mi24p and both die horribly at the start. No other early spawns. Couple mid game heli and jet spawns but those are cleaned up by a mig and I. Close game but ultimately a loss.

 

Game 10: https://warthunder.com/en/tournament/replay/54540788966181174

*NATO vs PACT. 2 First spawn KA-52. I kill both. One manages to kill me before force ejection (and as I said, this is a gaijin problem something that needs to change for both aircraft and helis), but both are dead and I am the only casualty. Spawn a backup and clear up some mid game spawns. I eventually run out of missiles and its over. Try and clean up with the UHT but its of no use, its a ground loss.

 

So out of the 10 games, I only faced 1 early spawn scenario with 52s and there were 2. I killed both effortlessly. That resulted in only a single team loss to an early heli attack which was myself when they suicide ran at me after dying, and that is only once.

 

It was in fact MUCH easier to do this as Germany than it is as Japan.

 

Never once did I fight the dreaded triple ka-52 attack while you claimed you almost needed two hands to count every early spawn heli in any given match. So what is your excuse now?

 

Quote

EBR (1954) spam is a problem?  ''jUsT pLaY tHe cOuNtEr bRuH''

Ahh the delicious irony. MuH WhAtAbOuTiSm.

Edited by TumblerSnapper
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20 hours ago, senzawa said:

False. In downtiers M1IP and M1(105) can stop a lot of rounds and anything short of DM33 (which can only penetrate at very close distances) and DM63 is simply incapable of dealing with their armour bar the weakspots.

Since when was Abrams hard to kill? I remember 1 battle in cv9040c I killed 3 Abrams before m1a1 snuck up on me.

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1 hour ago, TumblerSnapper said:

snip

what server are u playing on ?

I play on EU and more than every second game i see is a enemy Heli at game start thats why i spawn for now with FlaRakRad at game start and i must say i have great succsess killing helis with it and yes like Necrons say Helis shooting rockets is a problem but ii often get them first before they can fire

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I'm starting to wonder if the EU server can function as a sort of anti-meta sometimes. From my own experience playing late at night and during the day has a good chance to mix up which nations are "dominating." I queue on all but the Oceanic server so I couldn't tell you what servers I play on the most at either time, but the answer is likely NA during the day and EU at night simply because of time zone popularity.

 

Can't say I've played extensively recently, but back when the Russian swarms were swarming a few months ago nighttime seemed to have NATO in the driver seat more often.

 

Edited by Ariesv
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2 hours ago, _Iluminas_ said:

what server are u playing on ?

I play on EU and more than every second game i see is a enemy Heli at game start thats why i spawn for now with FlaRakRad at game start and i must say i have great succsess killing helis with it and yes like Necrons say Helis shooting rockets is a problem but ii often get them first before they can fire

All of them, I prefer fast games over slightly better ping. And the only problem is s-13df when they can fire while dead. As you said, you often get them first before they can fire. They are super easy to counter, and thats if they are taken at all. Which in most of my games (both my claimed type 93 games and replay given german games), they don't. I was merely proving a point that it is NOT as rampant as people make it out to be, and that spawning in an mbt first is not pointless. There most certainly isn't "2-3 first spawn KA50/52 in any given game" and my "experience in a non-German vehicle" was certainly no different than in my German vehicles as Necrons claimed it would be. I know he was trying to be cheeky with the replay nonsense, but alas it seems it didn't work out how he thought it would.

Edited by TumblerSnapper
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3 hours ago, Kocant12 said:

Since when was Abrams hard to kill? I remember 1 battle in cv9040c I killed 3 Abrams before m1a1 snuck up on me.

I mean, it's subjective as i killed M1s in CV90s easly too but they're CV9040s at the end of the day but objectively M1IP is harder to kill than 2A4 due to crew placement, armour prowess and the general silluete of the MBT.

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