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You can't win against German top tier


So where to begin. Well the Leopard 2a6 was added and its essentially a Leo 2a5 with a better gun. The problem is that its gun is way to good and it ignores Russian armor which makes Russia almost pointless to have on your team. The Leo 2a6 when hull down is basically un-killable because it has a impenetrable turret and tiny little mantlet. If you manage to kill a Leo 2a6 he either comes in a Leopard 2a5 | G91 R/3 or 4 | EC-665 tiger | The Leopard 2a5 is a good backup especially when compared to tanks like M1A1 and T80B but the Leo 2a5 isn't that big of a problem. The G91 has been talked about enough and I think everyone knows that it will wipe out half a team in a few minutes. The EC-665 had F&F missiles so it can come out of cover, shoot, go back into cover which no other Heli can do. If you spawn in a plane or heli there is the FlakRadPaz which will shoot you out of the sky if you are within 10km range. Germany also gets one of the best armored cars Radwagon 90 which is really fast and survives way more than it should and it gets a good gun. All Gaijin has done is raise repair cost which is going to make it where only elite players want to play.

 

So, I have came to the conclusion that you can't win against german top tier.

Edited by Kocant12
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Once every 10 games maybe. 10.7-9.7 is just nonsense right now. 

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1 minute ago, VeNoMxBR said:

"2A6 effect". Wait a few days, when the hype goes away.

 

Same happened when T-72-B3 came out. Everyone playing USSR and the B3 winrate was very high.

"Wait a few days" The 2a6 has been out for 2 months now.

 

It was possible to win against ussr cause their tanks and planes weren't that good

Just now, NoodleCup31 said:

OH NO 

A single tank that can sometimes pen the massively overperforming Russian armor

No tank should be able to pen Russian armor

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59 minutes ago, Kocant12 said:

The problem is that its gun is way to good and it ignores Russian armor which makes Russia almost pointless to have on your team.

Still hiting the same weakpoints as with weaker shells.

 

1 hour ago, Kocant12 said:

The Leo 2a6 when hull down is basically un-killable because it has a impenetrable turret and tiny little mantlet.

Tell that to breech when someone shoots you you magically lose all crew in turret.Breech is not modeled as it should be.

1 hour ago, Kocant12 said:

If you manage to kill a Leo 2a6 he either comes in a Leopard 2a5 | G91 R/3 or 4 | EC-665 tiger |

Normal TT vehicles that everyone can use.There is no equivalent to 2A5 and tiger but gaijin will have to aid one.

1 hour ago, Kocant12 said:

The G91 has been talked about enough and I think everyone knows that it will wipe out half a team in a few minutes.

On top tier rarely mainly because ussr players spawn tunguska after death and if you don't go low after you spawn you are dead.Most planes are useless on top tier becuase you get radar lock 2 seconds after spawn and missile is going after you.

 

1 hour ago, Kocant12 said:

If you spawn in a plane or heli there is the FlakRadPaz which will shoot you out of the sky if you are within 10km range.

So ADATS and tunguska will to.

 

1 hour ago, Kocant12 said:

So, is it possible to beat German top tier without luck or bs?

You need a good team and counter their blitzkrieg.If you gonna camp you will get overrun fast and dead.Allied side has most one deat leavers which hampers them in ability to win against germans. 

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56 minutes ago, Kocant12 said:

No tank should be able to pen Russian armor

Can't wait for you Russian mains to notice the existence of M829A3 which can yeet T-90M from 2km's away or of the A4 which can yeet pretty much everything away from existence.

Edited by senzawa
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Russian tanks are mere food when facing Germany. The only reliable counter now is M1A2, which is very similar to A6. When it shoots A6 at under its gun would be a high chance 1 shot kill. M829A1 makes the A6's mantlet much larger than before. The only disadvantage is that M829A1 has 55mm less penetration than DM53, which makes me wounder why they keep M829A2 away from us, it's just slightly less than DM53.

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10 minutes ago, senzawa said:

Can't wait for you Russian mains to notice the existence of M829A3 which can yeet T-90M from 2km's away or for the A4 which can yeet pretty much everything away from existence.

Appearently I'm a Russian main now

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2 minutes ago, Kocant12 said:

Appearently I'm a Russian main now

Generalization on my side but that doesn't really matter what you really get called here, i've been called an SJW because i refused to state my gender after all. Nontheless, DM53 is just the tip of the iceberg because projectiles such as M829A3/4 and DM73 can quite literally yeet everything away from existence.

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8 hours ago, senzawa said:

Generalization on my side but that doesn't really matter what you really get called here, i've been called an SJW because i refused to state my gender after all. Nontheless, DM53 is just the tip of the iceberg because projectiles such as M829A3/4 and DM73 can quite literally yeet everything away from existence.

Idc what people call me, I was joking. M829 A3/5 and DM73 should never be added unless the T14 is addddddddddddddddded.

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2 hours ago, Kocant12 said:

Idc what people call me, I was joking. M829 A3/5 and DM73 should never be added unless the T14 is addddddddddddddddded.

On a gameplay point of view, I would rather they add F-15 and Tornado first.

Makes no sense playing modern tanks with Vietnam War era planes.

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4 hours ago, Kocant12 said:

Idc what people call me, I was joking. M829 A3/5 and DM73 should never be added unless the T14 is addddddddddddddddded.

The only reason the Russian MBT's are maintaining some semblance of relevance right now is because Gaijin has so far decided against modeling the anti-K5 properties of DM53 and L27. Strip away their armor profile, and there simply isn't any reason to pick them over their NATO counterparts. Anti K-5 rounds should have been introduced alongside Russian MBT's sporting Relikt on their UFP's to maintain some semblance of balance.  

 

12 hours ago, senzawa said:

M829A3 which can yeet T-90M from 2km's away

First I heard of A3 being able to defeat Relikt. As far as I'm away there's nothing inherent in the design of A3 that would allow it to defeat a 'double action' 3rd gen ERA. I mean if M829A3 could defeat Relikt from 2km out, I doubt we would have seen the scramble for M829A4/DM73.   

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25 minutes ago, NoblemanSwerve said:

Anti K-5 rounds should have been introduced alongside Russian MBT's sporting Relikt on their UFP's to maintain some semblance of balance.

Aren't these rounds able to go through russian armour sporting relikt at point blank (up to a km in real combat) anyway? I remember this infomercial about how M829A2 can engage a tank equipped with K5 from 6km away, but equipped with relikt only 1km away.

 

26 minutes ago, NoblemanSwerve said:

First I heard of A3 being able to defeat Relikt. As far as I'm away there's nothing inherent in the design of A3 that would allow it to defeat a 'double action' 3rd gen ERA. I mean if M829A3 could defeat Relikt from 2km out, I doubt we would have seen the scramble for M829A4/DM73.   

They got Malahit ERA developed and "keeping the edge" is as good reason as any, A3 and DM53 are almost 2 decades old.

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So thats me playing top BR yesterday  atm its pretty ballanced for me and that with me starting everytime with the FlaRakRad to jeet the helicopters

Spoiler

CsxQmV6.jpg

 

and btw it felt like 3 games where i did not see any Helicopter at start

Edited by _Iluminas_
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59 minutes ago, Taeblamees said:

Aren't these rounds able to go through russian armour sporting relikt at point blank (up to a km in real combat) anyway? I remember this infomercial about how M829A2 can engage a tank equipped with K5 from 6km away, but equipped with relikt only 1km away.

Assuming you mean M829A3, as A2 wasn't able to reliably defeat K5 hence necessitating the development of the former. Seeing as how Relikt itself was designed as a counter to L27, DM53, and M829A3 rounds that all entered service between 1999 and 2001 with Relikt being unveiled in the mid 2000's, I'm somewhat hesitant to agree with the claims that these anti K-5 shells are also rather capable of defeating ERA that was ostensibly designed from the onset to counter them. 

 

Again the existence of investment in M829A4 and DM73 show that NATO wasn't confident in its current stock of ammunition in being sufficient to deal with 3rd generation heavy ERA. 

 

1 hour ago, Taeblamees said:

"keeping the edge" is as good reason as any, A3 and DM53 are almost 2 decades old.

There was nothing preventing investment from NATO into more advanced ammunition those prior two decades, except for the very obvious fact that with the fall of the Soviet Union, the Russian Federation was far less of a pressing security threat (up until the annexation of Crimea that is). DM73 and M829A4 only emerged after the Russian Federation began demoing their latest generation of ERA. Funding is, as ever, finite. When you have overmatch, there's no point in going down that road any further until something emerges that negates your previously held advantage. 

 

That's certainly not true for everything, but in regards to tank ammunition I think that's a fair assessment.    

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33 minutes ago, NoblemanSwerve said:

Assuming you mean M829A3, as A2 wasn't able to reliably defeat K5 hence necessitating the development of the former.

Yes and no.

 

The M829A1 was not effective against original Kontakt-5, hence immediate development of A2 that could certainly defeat K5 on T-80U at combat ranges. Then NATO caught wind that an improved K5 to be used on future T-72 and T-90 would even counter that, so they developed M829A3 and DM53.

 

That "improved" K5 wasn't produced and eventually become Relikt, revealed around 2005 and entered regular service in 2012-14. Relikt requires more modern solution to defeat.

 

Quote

 I'm somewhat hesitant to agree with the claims that these anti K-5 shells are also rather capable of defeating ERA that was ostensibly designed from the onset to counter them.

I don't think it is possible to find out whether these rounds can defeat Relikt or not, since both sides are still highly confidential.

Edited by Loongsheep
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5 hours ago, NoblemanSwerve said:

First I heard of A3 being able to defeat Relikt. As far as I'm away there's nothing inherent in the design of A3 that would allow it to defeat a 'double action' 3rd gen ERA. I mean if M829A3 could defeat Relikt from 2km out, I doubt we would have seen the scramble for M829A4/DM73.   

M829A3 utilizes the same means of defeating ERA as M829A4 hence there's no reason to not belive it can't defeat 3rd gen ERA.

https://below-the-turret-ring.blogspot.com/2016/02/m829a3-apfsds-penetration-power-common.html

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Lol, 3BM42 from my T-80 now get all Leopards what exist on the map :x 

Really, i got Leo too, from a couple of days i dont play with it because is a unplayable for me and my gameplay style what i play before on Leo.

Now i return to my bias T-80 and get Leo for dinner. Only one think still be on german site : players. In Americans and ZSRR there is to many dumb people. Really dumb.

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3 hours ago, NoblemanSwerve said:

Assuming you mean M829A3, as A2 wasn't able to reliably defeat K5

No reason to not belive it couldn't, M829A2 used pretty much the same mechanism of defeating ERA that DM53 used.

 

3 hours ago, NoblemanSwerve said:

hence necessitating the development of the former. Seeing as how Relikt itself was designed as a counter to L27, DM53, and M829A3 rounds that all entered service between 1999 and 2001 with Relikt being unveiled in the mid 2000's, I'm somewhat hesitant to agree with the claims that these anti K-5 shells are also rather capable of defeating ERA that was ostensibly designed from the onset to counter them. 

M829A2 was US's answer to Kontakt-5 as M829A1 was unable to deal with it, M829A3 was their answer to the speculated double-layered 3rd gen ERA and M829A4 is their answer to the newest generations of ERA as well as improving their chances of defeating older variants.

 

3 hours ago, NoblemanSwerve said:

Again the existence of investment in M829A4 and DM73 show that NATO wasn't confident in its current stock of ammunition in being sufficient to deal with 3rd generation heavy ERA. 

M829A3 has been literally the only NATO round capable of dealing with 3rd GEN ERA because neither DM53 not 63 were. 

 

3 hours ago, NoblemanSwerve said:

DM73 and M829A4 only emerged after the Russian Federation began demoing their latest generation of ERA. Funding is, as ever, finite. When you have overmatch, there's no point in going down that road any further until something emerges that negates your previously held advantage. 

M829A4 had been in development since 2011 and was given a green light for tests against targets when Russia revealed T-14 to the world which is plasted with supposedely even newer and more potent ERA, M829A4 was their low-cost answer to that, DM73 had been greenlighted for development in 2015.

 

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19 hours ago, Kocant12 said:

It was possible to win against ussr cause their tanks and planes weren't that good

Yes, of course, you can tell the fairy tales to someone else. 

 

When the Soviets were allowed to clap with the T64A Leo1A1, which initially only had APDS, strangely enough no Russians complained. 

Now that they are getting their own asses kicked, it's suddenly bad.  

 

19 hours ago, Kocant12 said:

No tank should be able to pen Russian armor

Ah yes, but only in your dream world. 

 

 

 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, _SilentFlummi_ said:

Yes, of course, you can tell the fairy tales to someone else. 

When the Soviets were allowed to clap with the T64A Leo1A1, which initially only had APDS,

Not sure what world you live in but the Leo a1a1 had heat which could in turn pen frontally a t64a as of right now. Not sure if the armor had changed but yeah. Also Germany had another tank that was introduced with the t64a, the kpz70. Funny how you complain about the Leo a1a1 not having apds but not about the kpz 70 which is way more mobile than the t64a and used to have a 5 second reload when introduced. Granted it was changed to 10 seconds and now 6 but it was 5 seconds during the beginning of the patch.

29 minutes ago, _SilentFlummi_ said:

strangely enough no Russians complained. 

I find it strange that you think people should complain about nations that they dont have or dont play. 

 

39 minutes ago, _SilentFlummi_ said:

Now that they are getting their own asses kicked, it's suddenly bad.

Is it a good thing that a nation's **** is getting kicked because of the past?

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14 minutes ago, shanrocks1 said:

Not sure what world you live in but the Leo a1a1 had heat which could in turn pen frontally a t64a as of right now.

Yes, I have seen how well that has worked 

Namely not at all

 

15 minutes ago, shanrocks1 said:

Is it a good thing that a nation's **** is getting kicked because of the past?

Every nation has its sweat spot in WT as far as BR is concerned. 

 

But if you go by the forum, Germany supposedly dominates everywhere and finds the fault. 

 

And as mentioned above, when the T-72B3 came out, it also had a high screening rate and nobody complained about that. 

But when the Germans get the 2A6, which has the same weak points as the 2A5, then everyone freaks out and complains... 

Just stupid 

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53 minutes ago, _SilentFlummi_ said:

Every nation has its sweat spot in WT as far as BR is concerned. 

 

But if you go by the forum, Germany supposedly dominates everywhere and finds the fault. 

 

And as mentioned above, when the T-72B3 came out, it also had a high screening rate and nobody complained about that. 

But when the Germans get the 2A6, which has the same weak points as the 2A5, then everyone freaks out and complains... 

Just stupid 

Germany can go head to head with enemy and win.No allied nation can do that.They should flank as germans have poor awareness and reaction time.Instead they go head on and wonder how they die.Allied CAS is bes on any tier except 8.7-9.3,9.7.People tend to rant and cry but they never asked themselves a question should they switch tactics and play on advantages.USA had so good K/D ratio that they moved all 76 shermans up to 0.3 BR and hellcat for 1.0 BR while first tiger H1 went down and then Panther D by 0.3 BR.Last time I stomped 4 shermans on 6.7 with my tiger just because they couldn't pen my front side but instead flanking me they just stood and shoot at me.

Same thing applies on top tier.Germany dominates on ground but now they have good awareness and reaction time while allies still suck in that.Germans had a long learning curve and they know how to exploit the situation.People complain on 2A6 mainly because of DM53 but keep forgeting that you will still have to shoot as same weakspots as with DM13.Leo 2A6 is superb in good hands wut weight in bad.It combines everything you want on tank in the game.

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