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German 9.0/8.7 lineup is way too strong right now


Both the EBR and Class 3 p were added as rewards for this operation and honestly they both have the same issue of being wheeled tanks with insane manoeuvrability and incredibly good firepower. I don't exactly have a problem with the EBR because its a very easy kill if caught out in the open, but I do think it should be at 5.3 at least. The class 3 p however is pretty damn OP. Granted thats just my opinion rn and I want to see how people will disagree to it to get a second side to my thoughts, but rn at its current br its very overpowered. I mean I understand its Gaijin and its probably just make people pay for the marks of distinction but holy crap its just a better radkampfwagen. It seems to hull break at a very low chance, whilst also being able to survive an atgm to its front. I understand its spaced armour but it doesn't even hull break it and most of the time if you're using APDS good luck because either the engine is going to eat it or its not going to do enough damage to disable the tank. Another German light vehicle at the same br as the class 3 p is the begleitpanzer. Again, why is it at 8.3, your still going up against APDS not APFSDS so in some cases you're actually tankier than most mediums. Reason being all of the spooling created by the shot against it is eaten by the engine. Of course there's variance but I shouldn't have to aim for a weak spot on a light tank thats just my opinion. The G.91 is self explanatory. The Gepard is pretty much the most consistent SPAA at 8.0, with better radar and gun placement than the chieftain marksman, which is the closest thing you can compare it to. I don't think that the Leopard's are Overpowered but they are definitely some of the best Mediums/MBTs at the BR. and unlike most lineups this one doesn't make compromises, EVERY SINGLE VEHICLE in it is good   

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Wait, you mean to say that Germans produce beat tools of war? Impossible! (:

You just have to wait till they introduce some new toys and meta yet again shifts erratically on some other nation. Then we will complain all over again and cycle will continue.
But seriously, not that this game is impossible to balance, but they seem not to be trying at all. 

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36 minutes ago, _yahtzee_ said:

but holy crap its just a better radkampfwagen

Much much MUCH less mobility.

WAY bigger target.

Equal armor

No spotting

 

The RKW is still a lot better

37 minutes ago, _yahtzee_ said:

German light vehicle at the same br as the class 3 p is the begleitpanzer

Bagel is 8.3

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yea... every enemy nation and BR is OP when either you or your team simply drives to the nearest cap point and ignore the rest of the map.......

 

And against a leopard, that is not favourable, as if it ever was...

 

focus less on your shots, penetration, numbers, spooling etc, and focus more on positioning. thats all that germans have over you in tanks at that BR.

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Radkampftwagen 90 is better than the Henschel Wehrtechnik TH800, which is  referred to as South African mod "Class 3(P)" ingame. The latter one is just far too big and definetly slower/less maneuverable than the Radkampftwagen. Its an event tank which might fill the GER 8.7 lineup, if you feel like not to upgrade into 9.0. Other than that theres no reason to play the TH-800. Seriously, its just too big...this contradicts its role as sneaky backstabber. It also can't scout and and can't reduce the spawn points for air vehicles.

 

The TH200 and TH400 would be more valuable additions to War Thunder Germany.

 

TH400.thumb.jpg.00c7666d9a8838ae6812ad69

 

Here is the TH400. You probably notice the nice A5 turret with thermal imager and that this one is ALOT smaller than the gargantuan TH800. This would be the tank we truly need to complete the 9.0 lineup. This is the one we want. 

 

The TH-200 is just 4x4 wheeled and has a 90mm cannon, but compensates with rather high 24.32 hp/t  and is amphibious as well. Would be nice on certain maps and would be probably right to buff the lacking German 8.3 lineup.

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Heres something to consider, just because its not OP or extrememly better than its contemporaries, it doesnt mean its "weak" or "bad" or needs a "buff".

 

if thats what you want, submit a ticket and just ask for all vehicle to be removed and just keep 6 vehicles in whole game. see how much fun when only vehicle available is a t80 or a leopard. 

 

"its not fun and its unplayable unless im using THE BEST vehicle" ...

 

im sorry but that means your a terrible player.

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38 minutes ago, Thodin said:

Radkampftwagen 90 is better than the Henschel Wehrtechnik TH800, which is  referred to as South African mod "Class 3(P)" ingame. The latter one is just far too big and definetly slower/less maneuverable than the Radkampftwagen. Its an event tank which might fill the GER 8.7 lineup, if you feel like not to upgrade into 9.0. Other than that theres no reason to play the TH-800. Seriously, its just too big...this contradicts its role as sneaky backstabber. It also can't scout and and can't reduce the spawn points for air vehicles.

 

The TH200 and TH400 would be more valuable additions to War Thunder Germany.

 

TH400.thumb.jpg.00c7666d9a8838ae6812ad69

 

Here is the TH400. You probably notice the nice A5 turret with thermal imager and that this one is ALOT smaller than the gargantuan TH800. This would be the tank we truly need to complete the 9.0 lineup. This is the one we want. 

 

The TH-200 is just 4x4 wheeled and has a 90mm cannon, but compensates with rather high 24.32 hp/t  and is amphibious as well. Would be nice on certain maps and would be probably right to buff the lacking German 8.3 lineup.

TH-800 =/= 3 (P) "Bismarck".

 

TH-800 exists only on paper, 3 (P) built in South Africa wasn't identical.

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1 hour ago, Thodin said:

Radkampftwagen 90 is better than the Henschel Wehrtechnik TH800, which is  referred to as South African mod "Class 3(P)" ingame. The latter one is just far too big and definetly slower/less maneuverable than the Radkampftwagen. Its an event tank which might fill the GER 8.7 lineup, if you feel like not to upgrade into 9.0. Other than that theres no reason to play the TH-800. Seriously, its just too big...this contradicts its role as sneaky backstabber. It also can't scout and and can't reduce the spawn points for air vehicles.

 

The TH200 and TH400 would be more valuable additions to War Thunder Germany.

 

TH400.thumb.jpg.00c7666d9a8838ae6812ad69

 

Here is the TH400. You probably notice the nice A5 turret with thermal imager and that this one is ALOT smaller than the gargantuan TH800. This would be the tank we truly need to complete the 9.0 lineup. This is the one we want. 

 

The TH-200 is just 4x4 wheeled and has a 90mm cannon, but compensates with rather high 24.32 hp/t  and is amphibious as well. Would be nice on certain maps and would be probably right to buff the lacking German 8.3 lineup.

Yeah sure, Germany need more cancer wagen. LeOPard l44, radcancer90, g91PointAndClick and now class 3p is not enought..

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5 hours ago, NoodleCup31 said:

Much much MUCH less mobility.

WAY bigger target.

Equal armor

No spotting

 

The RKW is still a lot better

Bagel is 8.3

 

Class 3 P is also 8.3 compared to the wagen which is at 9.0, plus in terms of armour I'm not sure if its a bug but shooting from the front with a kinetic round normally doesn't lead to it being killed unlike the wagen and the centauro or at least thats been my in game experience. yes the Bagel is 8.3 that doesn't completely right off its place in a 9.0 lineup, I'd honestly argue taking it over a TAM since I've hull broken more TAMs than bagels (although hull break isnt exactly in a great spot right now)

3 hours ago, English_Ham said:

Heres something to consider, just because its not OP or extrememly better than its contemporaries, it doesnt mean its "weak" or "bad" or needs a "buff".

 

if thats what you want, submit a ticket and just ask for all vehicle to be removed and just keep 6 vehicles in whole game. see how much fun when only vehicle available is a t80 or a leopard. 

 

"its not fun and its unplayable unless im using THE BEST vehicle" ...

 

im sorry but that means your a terrible player.

Thats not what im arguing at all I'm saying the lineup as a whole is very powerful not that everything in it is overpowered

 

5 hours ago, Thorien_Kell said:

Wait, you mean to say that Germans produce beat tools of war? Impossible! (:

You just have to wait till they introduce some new toys and meta yet again shifts erratically on some other nation. Then we will complain all over again and cycle will continue.
But seriously, not that this game is impossible to balance, but they seem not to be trying at all. 

Im not sure the meta will shift to another nation tbh ppl who main Germans seem to be the most likely to pay up for premiums (for example if i had a dollar for every c2a1 G91 and leopard a1a1 l44 i saw in a match)

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39 minutes ago, _yahtzee_ said:

Class 3 P is also 8.3

8.7 last I checked. But it would easily go to 9.0 and Radpanzer into 9.3, no worries.

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Germany 8.7 is fine. 

 

The issue with Germany 9.0 is that you can run the following:

 

Leo 1A5 - Thermals (Tech Tree)

Rad90 - Fastest straight line vehicle in the game (Tech Tree)

TAM - Good cheap backup (Tech Tree)

Gepard - Best non-missile SPAA in game (Tech Tree)

Leo 1A1 - Excellent 8.7 backup if you don't have the event or premium Leo

 

Leo A1A1/L44 - Thermals (Premium)

Leo C1A2 - Thermals (Event - Free)

 

G91/R3

G91/R4

 

There is nothing that can even remotely compete with the versatility and depth of Germany 9.0.

 

Every BR has a particular lineup that is going to be superior.  Nothing wrong with that.  I just don't think such a manifestly superior lineup is good for balance.  

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4 hours ago, Pope_Shizzle said:

Germany 8.7 is fine. 

 

The issue with Germany 9.0 is that you can run the following:

 

Leo 1A5 - Thermals (Tech Tree)

Rad90 - Fastest straight line vehicle in the game (Tech Tree)

TAM - Good cheap backup (Tech Tree)

Gepard - Best non-missile SPAA in game (Tech Tree)

Leo 1A1 - Excellent 8.7 backup if you don't have the event or premium Leo

 

Leo A1A1/L44 - Thermals (Premium)

Leo C1A2 - Thermals (Event - Free)

 

G91/R3

G91/R4

 

There is nothing that can even remotely compete with the versatility and depth of Germany 9.0.

 

Every BR has a particular lineup that is going to be superior.  Nothing wrong with that.  I just don't think such a manifestly superior lineup is good for balance.  

Pretty much what you said.

 

While the 9.0 german are not really OP, since sh*t teammates can still lose the battle.

 

Its still an undeniable fact that 9.0 favours german and their vehicle line up is the most meta around that BR

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Maybe I've just been unlucky but I haven't been able to kill a Class 3(P) yet, they always survive multiple shots and I can't see it yet in the hangar to study it better.

 

I just had an interesting battle in which I managed to deny most CAS of the German/Swedish team but the outcome wasn't any different from what I have experienced for the past weeks, they were camping our spawn by the end, they took longer though without the help of the G.91s

 

831089661_Capturadepantalla(237).thumb.p

 

I was instantly deleted by a Class 3(P) shooting HEAT, it didn't seem to care about the ERA of my TTS, so I just jumped in the York (twice) to clean up the skies.

 

The absurd amount of Rad90s and Leo A5 - L/44s - C2A1s simply destroys any team that isn't made of competitive vehicles and most of the 8.7 - 9.0 US/UK/USSR/FRA isn't really stellar, (The only exceptions would be the XM803, Object 279 (to some degree) and the AMX-30 Super, everything else is average or below.) plus USSR and is in the German side most of the time. And after the top vehicles are gone the A1A1, TAM, Bagel and even Gepard are good at keeping the fight on. 

France and Japan is more 50/50 chance to be on either side.

Italy is always with Germany and Sweden and China don't have anything decent this BR.

 

 

Edited by CptPejelagarto

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32 minutes ago, CptPejelagarto said:

I was instantly deleted by a Class 3(P) shooting HEAT, it didn't seem to care about the ERA of my TTS, so I just jumped in the York (twice) to clean up the skies.

That's why I keep my Falcon SPAAG even up 9.0.

One burst removes one tumor at a time. As long as 3 (P) isn't look at you head-on you can kill it.

 

Made a 6-kills spree before running out of ammo once.

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8.7/9.0 German lineup is just nothing that other nations can compete with at this moment, sometimes US gives a decent fight but doesn't last long as German team have more at their lineup. 

 

If you are fortune enough to kill Leopard or QF-40 you will simply get deleted by AS-20 Nord. Time will show us if this will change with new tanks added to the game. 

 

My current 8.7 lineup have 67% win rate, some others probably have higher too. 

 

 

15 hours ago, _yahtzee_ said:

 

There is a lot of miss-information there, you might want to recheck battle ratings.

Edited by TheKomrade
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The German 8.7 and 9.0 lineup is absolutely ridiculous as already mentioned. They have thermals, mobility, and fast firing, high penetration guns. You have 3 MBT's with thermals, the L44, C2, and A5, and the A1A1 is a good backup. The Rad is probably the best light tank in the game, and the TAM is no joke either. Russia doesn't get thermals on MBTs until 10.0 (excluding the T-72AV) and the only comparable American vehicles are the XM-1, which is a premium, and the Stryker, which has poor gun handling. Not to mention the G91's, which don't meet SAMs, and if flown by a pilot with more than 2 brain cells (thankfully, which not many German pilots have), can snipe radar spaa outside of their effective range, and proceed to clean up the battlefield using their remaining 2 or 3 nords. I've seen German teams get absolutely stomped, and them having 3 or 4 G91s spawn and rack up 8 to 9 kills within the span of a minute, turning the tide of the battlefield in Germany's favour. If you are a regular tanker, you can do little to counter a better than mediocre G91 pilot, apart from sitting under a bunch of trees, making you an easy kill for Leopards with thermals. You can also hop into a fighter, and guess what? The Gepard is probably the best AA at it's tier. 

 

So what's my suggestion? Move the whole 9.0 lineup to at least 9.3, 1A5 to 9.7, (it gets DM33 and thermals), put the TH-800 at 9.0,  increase the spawn point cost of the nords so that it is much less spammable, and put the G91's battle rating at 9.3 for ground RB only. Honestly, all SAM SPAA could be moved down at least 0.7 in battle rating too, but that's a separate topic. 

Edited by SNIPRS
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18 hours ago, Thodin said:

Radkampftwagen 90 is better than the Henschel Wehrtechnik TH800, which is  referred to as South African mod "Class 3(P)" ingame. The latter one is just far too big and definetly slower/less maneuverable than the Radkampftwagen.


In theory, what you're saying makes sense, in practice however I would say those two vehicles are very comparable. 3P is very mobile vehicle. It is deceptively fast. Size can be a problem, but it also can peek and shoot over some things you wouldn't expect. Also, it is survivable as fck. Size and eating the spalling really does count in this game, half of enemies don't know where to shoot you. this will change but you're definitely more survivable then cramped MBT, plus usual poison of light vehicles, autocannons 30 mm, BMPs or such, cannot kill you from front. 

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9 hours ago, SNIPRS said:

So what's my suggestion? Move the whole 9.0 lineup to at least 9.3, 1A5 to 9.7, (it gets DM33 and thermals), put the TH-800 at 9.0,  increase the spawn point cost of the nords so that it is much less spammable, and put the G91's battle rating at 9.3 for ground RB only. Honestly, all SAM SPAA could be moved down at least 0.7 in battle rating too, but that's a separate topic. 

 

You don't need to move the whole lineup.  The Rad90 is easily a 9.7 or 10.0 capable vehicle.  The sheer speed of the thing is almost gamebreaking.  Given teh size of many maps, the things is 2/3 across the map before you can say "spawn camping."   And the G91's are definitely 9.0 or 9.3 worthy.  That relieves some pressure on 7.7-8.7 and takes away the most dangerous tool at 9.0.  The 1A5 is fine at 9.0.  As is the C2A1.  The L44 might be a 9.3 candidate, but I think its fine at 9.0.  

Edited by Pope_Shizzle
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20 hours ago, Taeblamees said:

Same BR as TURMST

shrk02nq3yi41.thumb.jpg.73828e4e1a09facb

 

13 hours ago, Pope_Shizzle said:

 

You don't need to move the whole lineup.  The Rad90 is easily a 9.7 or 10.0 capable vehicle.  The sheer speed of the thing is almost gamebreaking.  Given teh size of many maps, the things is 2/3 across the map before you can say "spawn camping."   And the G91's are definitely 9.0 or 9.3 worthy.  That relieves some pressure on 7.7-8.7 and takes away the most dangerous tool at 9.0.  The 1A5 is fine at 9.0.  As is the C2A1.  The L44 might be a 9.3 candidate, but I think its fine at 9.0.  

 

Okay, perhaps I was too harsh, but I do think the gun handling on the Leopard series is seriously underrated. I think the main problem is the G91 though, again, you can get 4 AGM's for not a lot of effort, and coupled with the cheap research cost, makes it very spammable. Also, I am in favour of having 2 of the 1A5, C2A1, A1A1, and L44 at 9.0 and 2 at 9.3 at least, since that prevents you from having 4 very capable MBT's in a single 9.0 lineup, which is very dominating in a long match of attrition. 

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19 hours ago, CptPejelagarto said:

just had an interesting battle in which I managed to deny most CAS of the German/Swedish team but the outcome wasn't any different from what I have experienced for the past weeks

Well 6 people left after one death while only one did so on the German team and they were even one player less.

7 hours ago, Pope_Shizzle said:

The Rad90 is easily a 9.7 or 10.0 capable vehicle.  The sheer speed of the thing is almost gamebreaking.

Dude what

7 hours ago, Pope_Shizzle said:

The 1A5 is fine at 9.0.  As is the C2A1.  The L44 might be a 9.3 candidate, but I think its fine at 9.0.  

That makes no sense at all.

The C2 and 1A5 are actually better than the L44 because they can frontally withstand autocannons for some time.

12 hours ago, Thorien_Kell said:

3P is very mobile vehicle. It is deceptively fast.

Not really

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12 hours ago, Thorien_Kell said:

this will change but you're definitely more survivable then cramped MBT,

While this is true, you can also try to shoot the right turret cheek.

The ammo is right behind it.

 

Most people aim center mass, through the driver and out the back again.

The turret crew isn't very frightened about that, but you should :)

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