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The last thing this game needs are bigger maps. Big maps are simply boring driving simulators. There is a reason why most people don't play simulator, maps are simply too big and games are boring and frustrating.

In realistic we need more small city maps. Most people just want to have a quick, action packed game, not a long drawn-out sniping and driving simulator.

 

Leave big maps in simulator and keep small urban maps for RB

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On 09/01/2021 at 23:29, SlovenskaZver said:

The last thing this game needs are bigger maps. Big maps are simply boring driving simulators. There is a reason why most people don't play simulator, maps are simply too big and games are boring and frustrating.

In realistic we need more small city maps. Most people just want to have a quick, action packed game, not a long drawn-out sniping and driving simulator.

 

Leave big maps in simulator and keep small urban maps for RB

 

Some maps - like cities or tiny crowded labirynths or medieval castles or japanese shrines - belong to Arcade only because they are utterly unrealistic.. 

 

Playing Realistic or Simulator Battle INSIDE medieval castle..., or on the stairs of japanese temple..., or inside some arfificial labirynth of rocks placed intentionally to force 50 tons behemots with 5-6 meters long barrels developed to shoot at 2-4km to fight each other at 10-100 meters. Very often literally putting the barrel inside the enemy vehicle point blanc, than fire...

 

In anything other than Arcade it is simply ridiculous.

 

BTW: the sheer amount of gigantic rocks (in reality found only in a few selected places on whole Earth) here used in nearly every single map in huge quantities to artificially force only 2-3 possible routes to meet the enemy at point blank range and to artificially block the line of sight of 90% of the map from every single place except of very few "spots" pre-selected by map creator... yeah...

Edited by BlES
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2 minutes ago, SlovenskaZver said:

The last thing this game needs are bigger maps. Big maps are simply boring driving simulators. There is a reason why most people don't play simulator, maps are simply too big and games are boring and frustrating.

In realistic we need more small city maps. Most people just want to have a quick, action packed game, not a long drawn-out sniping and driving simulator.

 

Leave big maps in simulator and keep small urban maps for RB

always depends on BR and the mode (AB, RB or SIM)

<5.7 is for the small maps

6.0 - 8.3 would be fitting for the medium sized maps like the size of full poland

8.7 - 9.3 already needs once again bigger maps, maps the size of Fulda would be fitting well enough already

9.7 - 10.0 need maps bigger than fulda

10.3 + need maps at least 50% bigger than fulda

 

the reason for this is the ridiculous compression the game suffers from, which includes featurecreep like laser rangefinder, highpen ATGMs and APFSDS, which make anything below an average engagement range of less than 1000m cramped already, only increasingly being more cramped with higher BRs.

if we had bigger maps (not as lazily as past maps that are only cramped fusterclucks in cities), but intelligent map design, which i fear we wont get in the "near" future :/

 

i personally love big maps and mainly play around 8.7+, but nearly always get terribad citymaps that are absolutely no fun for me

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1 hour ago, BlES said:

 

Some maps - like cities or tiny crowded labirynths or medieval castles or japanese shrines - belong to Arcade only because they are utterly unrealistic.. 

 

Playing Realistic or Simulator Battle INSIDE of medieval castle..., or on the stairs of japanese temple..., or inside some arfificial labirynth of rocks placed especially to force 50 tons behemots with 5-6 meters long barrels developed to shoot at 2-4km to fight each other at 10-100 meters. Very often literally putting the barrel inside the enemy vehicle point blanc, than fire...

 

In anything other than Arcade it is simply ridiculous.

 

BTW: the sheer amount of gigantic rocks (in reality found only in a few selected places on whole Earth) here used in nearly every single map in huge quantities to artificially force only 2-3 possible routes to meet the enemy at point blank range and to artificially block the line of sight of 90% of the map from every single place except of very few "spots" pre-selected by map creator... yeah...

Most of arcade gameplay is hiding and shooting long range.

I think we should keep big maps, but keep them in simulator.

 

The fact is that most people prefer smaller unrealistic maps, it is a game after all. People who like more realistic gameplay should play simulator. I see no problem in such unrealistic features, as long as people enjoy playing the game.

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2 hours ago, SlovenskaZver said:

Most of arcade gameplay is hiding and shooting long range.

I think we should keep big maps, but keep them in simulator.

 

The fact is that most people prefer smaller unrealistic maps, it is a game after all. People who like more realistic gameplay should play simulator. I see no problem in such unrealistic features, as long as people enjoy playing the game.

Small maps generally suck and are trash and only value medium and heavy tanks which is unfair to light tanks and tank destroyers. Big maps will lead to more gameplay options for tanks such as flanking and sniping which makes lights and TD's useful.

Edited by Kocant12
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I miss the old big map versions, White Rock, Mozdok and Hürtgen were awesome.

Even though the possibility to flank and plan a route instead of being forced to follow a narrow path is great, the thing I miss the most from the big maps was not dying at spawn on my second spawn courtesy of a spawn camper whose sole purpose on this earth is to be an a-hole.

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It'd be nice if we got to the point where there are so many maps in the game we could have WW2 tanks fight each other on WW2 battlefields, and Cold War tanks fight on Cold War maps. Kursk seems to be the only long range engagement map that I get regularly which is a shame. 

 

I'm not a fan of driving my Tiger or Sherman through a cargo port, Vietnam, American Desert (or whatever it's called) or Fulda. Why Sweden is a map baffles me. I'm very much a fan of them recreating real world locations, like most of the air maps in RB. Fields of Normandy feels fun because that airship hangar in the middle actually existed. Berlin and Novorossiysk are pretty accurate but mediocre maps. 

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Big open maps are bad for the 90% of the Soviet tank tree so Gaijin said NO and thats why the last maps always have the same design, small flat urban areas where muh trash gun depression and potatoe reload times can be a problem, much better add Urban hamster maze size where you cant destroy glorious Soviets cans at 2km.

Really the last good map was Maginot after that... only clonical urban trash maps.

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9 hours ago, Kocant12 said:

Small maps generally suck and are trash and only value medium and heavy tanks which is unfair to light tanks and tank destroyers. Big maps will lead to more gameplay options for tanks such as flanking and sniping which makes lights and TD's useful.

Big maps will only lead to more people leaving after 1 death, people taking bt5, m22, r3, pumas and other low tier  fast trash, getting a cap and using a plane. Most people dislike driving a slow, stock tank for half an hour only to get one-shoot by fast light tank using heat. People like you prefer big maps, but most people are not like you, most people don't have time to play a single game for an hour, we just want to have fun with friends and destroy some tanks, while not being brain-dead an playing arcade.

There is nothing wrong with preferring more realistic gameplay with bigger maps, that is what simulator is for.

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3 hours ago, SlovenskaZver said:

Big maps will only lead to more people leaving after 1 death, people taking bt5, m22, r3, pumas and other low tier  fast trash, getting a cap and using a plane. Most people dislike driving a slow, stock tank for half an hour only to get one-shoot by fast light tank using heat. People like you prefer big maps, but most people are not like you, most people don't have time to play a single game for an hour, we just want to have fun with friends and destroy some tanks, while not being brain-dead an playing arcade.

There is nothing wrong with preferring more realistic gameplay with bigger maps, that is what simulator is for.

and RB

as i said above, it always depends on the BR range as well, nobody wants fulda in rank1/2 tanks, but its the minimum size that a map for rank6+ needs, as small fustercluck citymaps dont fit those more modern tanks at all!

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12 hours ago, SlovenskaZver said:

Big maps will only lead to more people leaving after 1 death, people taking bt5, m22, r3, pumas and other low tier  fast trash, getting a cap and using a plane. Most people dislike driving a slow, stock tank for half an hour only to get one-shoot by fast light tank using heat. People like you prefer big maps, but most people are not like you, most people don't have time to play a single game for an hour, we just want to have fun with friends and destroy some tanks, while not being brain-dead an playing arcade.

There is nothing wrong with preferring more realistic gameplay with bigger maps, that is what simulator is for.

 

I would fully agree if simulator was actually a game mode (like it used to be) and not the current event-ish battles of nowadays.

 

If Gaijin gave sim a little bit of attention it could be an awesome game mode but now its basically "here is what you can play, if you don't like it come another day"

Tbh RB is feeling more like AB with the last updates so the natural course of action is evolving SB into a more playable thing, not by subtracting elements of realism, but by making mission objectives and such that are more realistic than "cap the flag" and making the game mode open again to the MM instead of what it is now.

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22 hours ago, SlovenskaZver said:

Big maps will only lead to more people leaving after 1 death, people taking bt5, m22, r3, pumas and other low tier  fast trash, getting a cap and using a plane. Most people dislike driving a slow, stock tank for half an hour only to get one-shoot by fast light tank using heat. People like you prefer big maps, but most people are not like you, most people don't have time to play a single game for an hour, we just want to have fun with friends and destroy some tanks, while not being brain-dead an playing arcade.

There is nothing wrong with preferring more realistic gameplay with bigger maps, that is what simulator is for.


I totally get and agree with all your posts here.  I don't think people understand that the bulk of the players don't fit what the more involved players want from the game (like the people in this thread, generally more involved and tactical players, not the casuals who fill most games).

It unfortunately shows very narrow minded views of the War Thunder Community (just observing that here no one seems to get what you are saying), and the fact forum users (generally more involved players) just can't see it.

Bigger maps for the casual - eg Fulda... Spawn once, spend ages travelling, get killed/kill, next spawn, nah, give up.

You apparently (that's me too) aren't a majority otherwise we would already be big mapping it all over.

Edited by Deranger79
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There are couple isses with maps:

- one of the issues is maps are not BR related, Fulda on 3.7 is as bad as Karelia on 10.7

- another issue is maps are mostly made as "corridor" maps meaning there are very little approach routes on most maps with some exceptions

- here is also map repetition issue which frustrates players even more especially if last game wasn't on map they have fun playing

- bad spawn placements depending on battle BR (high BR Poland Domination comes to mind)

- bad objectives placement

- size is mostly high BR issue where vehicles are very fast

- big map with completely open terrain is also bad especiall in high BR where one cen OHK even on 3k distances

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25 minutes ago, KH_Alan said:

There are couple isses with maps:

- one of the issues is maps are not BR related, Fulda on 3.7 is as bad as Karelia on 10.7

- another issue is maps are mostly made as "corridor" maps meaning there are very little approach routes on most maps with some exceptions

- here is also map repetition issue which frustrates players even more especially if last game wasn't on map they have fun playing

- bad spawn placements depending on battle BR (high BR Poland Domination comes to mind)

- bad objectives placement

- size is mostly high BR issue where vehicles are very fast

- big map with completely open terrain is also bad especiall in high BR where one cen OHK even on 3k distances

 

See, this I get.

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23 hours ago, SlovenskaZver said:

Big maps will only lead to more people leaving after 1 death, people taking bt5, m22, r3, pumas and other low tier  fast trash, getting a cap and using a plane. Most people dislike driving a slow, stock tank for half an hour only to get one-shoot by fast light tank using heat. People like you prefer big maps, but most people are not like you, most people don't have time to play a single game for an hour, we just want to have fun with friends and destroy some tanks, while not being brain-dead an playing arcade.

There is nothing wrong with preferring more realistic gameplay with bigger maps, that is what simulator is for.

Dude, you are exactly the reason why we are getting boxing arenas, where crew of the tank is punching enemy crew with their fists in tank RB.

Mode is named "realistic" after all, its not realistic to have for example Challenger 1 or Leopard 2 fighting under 2 kilometres. If you want brainless action, go play arcade, most of normal high tier tank players want big maps to use their mobility, ATGMs and rangefinders.

About simulator, mode is dying fast in recent few months, because i suspect devs trying to remove it from the game, because it doesnt give enough money to justify its existence. Plus high tier simulator is unplayable thx to Kamov and UHT Tiger spam for both sides. Helicopters kill 90 % of team in first 5 minutes, stealing kills for their team and fun for the enemy.

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I completely lost any hope we will ever get good maps. They might look nice, but barely any of them are fine when it comes to game design. Spawncamping galore. Whenever I play SPAA in top tier I die pretty much instantly as there is no place to hide from all the tryhards who rush for easy kills, which the design of this game heavily rewards.

 

It is not only maps, it is also the entire design of the mode which is flawed at its foundation

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3 hours ago, BlazeFlame24 said:

Dude, you are exactly the reason why we are getting boxing arenas, where crew of the tank is punching enemy crew with their fists in tank RB.

Mode is named "realistic" after all, its not realistic to have for example Challenger 1 or Leopard 2 fighting under 2 kilometres. If you want brainless action, go play arcade, most of normal high tier tank players want big maps to use their mobility, ATGMs and rangefinders.

About simulator, mode is dying fast in recent few months, because i suspect devs trying to remove it from the game, because it doesnt give enough money to justify its existence. Plus high tier simulator is unplayable thx to Kamov and UHT Tiger spam for both sides. Helicopters kill 90 % of team in first 5 minutes, stealing kills for their team and fun for the enemy.

I have no idea what "normal high tier player" means. Most people i play with hate big maps and consider them boring and repetitive. Staying hull down and shooting small white dots far away is not most interesting and engaging thing to do. Well once in a while it might be somewhat interesting, but it gets old soon. War Thunder is a game and as such it should be interesting to play. There are other more realistic games out there in you want more accurate tank combat simulator.

I completely agree with you that Gaijin should fix simulator. I don't play it myself, but if it would mean that "we want bigger maps" players would move there i wouldn't mind having to wait a little longer for a good city map.

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On 10/01/2021 at 02:24, SlovenskaZver said:

The fact is that most people prefer smaller unrealistic maps, it is a game after all. People who like more realistic gameplay should play simulator.

 

This whole sentence just made me salty. "People prefer smaller unrealistic maps" what a punch of b*llsh*t, I hate every single small map no matter what BR I am playing, there is hardly anything dumper than tanks fighting in medieval castle or tiny town square. So much wow, so much fun. You might think that people prefers those games, well yeah kinda they do, because they are forced into it. After all people wants to get new toys researched, so of course players will play small maps. Still only because game keeps force feeding them to us. 

 

In my opinion Gaijin just should remove all small urban maps from map rotation after BR 6.7, if you just want fast paced gameplay, without any sense there is always Arcade for you. Realistic is realistic not Arcade 2.0. Another rubbish point you made is that if I want to play realistic, I must play Simulator battles? So if I want to play for example British BR 7.0, I must wait a day so I can get somewhat realistic battles with proper maps?  

 

Really Gaijin stop hand holding this "muh hand to hand combat" -part of community with never ending small maps. While you do this, you keep showing middle finger for that part of community who wants larger maps, like me. Really is learning to aim and use of terrain as a advantage so hard? Everyone can camp behind buildings, it is not fun.

Edited by Guinespsj
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1 hour ago, Guinespsj said:

This whole sentence just made me salty. "People prefer smaller unrealistic maps" what a punch of b*llsh*t, I hate every single small map no matter what BR I am playing, there is hardly anything dumper than tanks fighting in medieval castle or tiny town square. So much wow, so much fun. You might think that people prefers those games, well yeah kinda they do, because they are forced into it. After all people wants to get new toys researched, so of course players will play small maps. Still only because game keeps force feeding them to us. 

There is a thing called preferred maps. There most people dislike or ban maps such as Fulda, Fire Arc, Mozdok (my most hated map), fields of Poland, European province... And they like maps such as cargo port, Sweden (my favorite map), advance to the Rhine, American desert, Italy... Also i noticed that whenever i get one of the bigger maps people spawn with less tanks, they spawn with bt5, m22, r3, pumas and other low tier fast trash, and more people leave after 1 death. If most people would really prefer big open maps, there would be a lot more of them.

 

You may prefer bigger maps, there is nothing wrong with that, you are probably an above average player. But most players are not like you, most people, including myself, lack the patience and time to wait hull down for minutes and wait for a impatient tank to drive over a hill few kilometers away.

 

I would be fine with arcade game-mode if they would remove penetration indicators and names above enemy tanks, add that press 7 to get a plane for a minute nonsense. Since you have problem with word "realistic" perhaps Gaijin should rename it to mixed battles and rename simulator to realistic battles.

 

And as for lack of players in simulator battles, perhaps it is in part due to the fact that majority of people prefer shorter, less skill dependent games on smaller maps.

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On 11/01/2021 at 10:53, SlovenskaZver said:

And as for lack of players in simulator battles, perhaps it is in part due to the fact that majority of people prefer shorter, less skill dependent games on smaller maps.

No, its because Gaijin doesn't improve sim ands sim is broken as hell atm. Be nice if heli's required more sp to spawn and postwar vehicles were removed from ww2 except maybe cent mk1 and arl44 and amx13

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On 11/01/2021 at 10:53, SlovenskaZver said:

You may prefer bigger maps, there is nothing wrong with that, you are probably an above average player. But most players are not like you, most people, including myself, lack the patience and time to wait hull down for minutes and wait for a impatient tank to drive over a hill few kilometers away.

I'm an average player but I still prefer big maps.

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