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Why is EBR at 4.7 while AMX-13 is at 6.0?


Both tanks lack armor, but EBR is faster by a huge margin, the only thing AMX-13 has that EBR doesn't have is the PCOT-51P shell (same shell as the M4A4 SA50). So why is EBR at 4.7 while AMX-13 is at 6.0? :facepalm: A single shell makes a 1.3 BR difference? Really?

Edited by Exophobia
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BR has become more unreliable as an indicator as years have passed.  I think the whole system needs to be readjusted.  With the number of vehicles in game that would be a mammoth task though.

 

 

Edited by Valcour
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Wow just wow 

 

So the obvious you already got out of the way which is the Shell and yes ammo makes a huge difference in performance btw,though i did say that in other posts the gun and ammo is worth a 5.3 for the EBR.

Anyhow 

The EBR is faster on paper in other word yes it can reach higher speeds on optimal terrain but how often do have these conditions? You get stuck on Snow Sand etc with the EBR where you dont get stuck with an AMX.

Tacks are far more reliable and stable then Wheels/Steel Wheels 

Then you have a slightly better gun elevation on the AMX as well as the same Turret traverse when both fully spaded on the same crew.

Power to weight Ratio is also better on the AMX, that paired with the tracks makes for better climbing which is nigh impossible on the E.B.R btw.

 

Also noticed the Smaller siluoette on the AMX? it aint an easy Vehicle to spot.

All in all that makes up for the BR difference its minor Details but you know that if you actually would sit down and look the tanks before starting a rant.

 

 

 

 

 

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Lets be honest here, BR compression has been a problem thoughout the game's history, we even seen this in Naval where they had to make two tech trees to separate the Destroyers from the PT boats. The same issue is going on here, the only reasoning behind the fact that the EBR isn't at 6.0 is because it lacks the round that the AMX-13 gets, yet they are the same gun, same turret. But even then this is no excuse as the AMX-13 comes stock with the round that the EBR gets.

 

That said, I'd say its time for Gaijin to implement BR-15 instead of 10.7, and this will address the issue with the 1 up and down up tier system. Sure it will increase Que times, but as it stands... is also driving people away from the game. So maybe if they fix the issue it would actually reduce que times rather than increase them, though this outcome will take time and effort from Gaijin, both of which is nearly impossible because Gaijin wants to get first then react later.

Edited by GhostUnitVII
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2 hours ago, Despeao said:

Yeah, makes no sense. It's clear the AMX-13 is overtiered there at 6.0.

 

Yeah.. no.  Light tank  with 202mm pen and auto loader..  Even thought can easily be 6.7 BR

Edited by TheKomrade
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2 hours ago, GhostUnitVII said:

Lets be honest here, BR compression has been a problem thoughout the game's history

 

there's a difference between compression effecting balancing and releasing a vehicle that was blatantly undertiered at 4.3

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fits most other "light tanks", most of them can remove heavy tanks 1BR above them through the front without effort across the map, there may be some rare exceptions in the lowest tiers, but most clowncars with questionable damage model are more or less just a pain for all other tanks.

 

who cares if you have 12 or 150mm of armor when the clowncars field 200mm of pen. They´re faster, reload faster, are harder to hit due to small size or "no armor best armor" syndrom. The additional armor the others field just slows them down without being of any use, maybe get a "WeightWatchers" modification for every non-clowncar vehicle which removes all armor exceeding 30mm to become more mobile and get a better shell with +100mm of pen to compensate for low armor^^

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8 hours ago, CreditCardCmndo said:

The EBR is faster on paper in other word yes it can reach higher speeds on optimal terrain but how often do have these conditions? You get stuck on Snow Sand etc with the EBR where you dont get stuck with an AMX.

First of all, the only time the only time E.B.R travelled slower than AMX-13 is when the ground isn't solid (mud, snow, sand). Even in grass plains, E.B.R speed is actually similar to AMX-13. Go test it in a test drive, time yourself driving straight to the Tiger-II tank without using the roads, you will notice both tanks actually takes similar timing without big differences.

 

Furthermore, EBR requires flanking most of the time. And if you do notice, a lot of maps (e.g. Berlin, Eastern Europe, etc) that people often get in 4.7+/- BR matches all have many roads, making a large roundabout on the border of the map - this literally gives you some decent advantages (I am not saying on every match, but it is decent enough to have you travelled across half the map before the enemy even captured their first zone). This is especially reflected in the map Carpathians, where you can sit behind that rock cover behind point C and firing at all those slow enemy tanks moving up the hill to capture point A (I have done it before - not in this account; it can easily get you 5+ kills in the first 2 minutes of the match if you are decent at aiming).

 

8 hours ago, CreditCardCmndo said:

Tacks are far more reliable and stable then Wheels/Steel Wheels 

This is situational, there is a reason why Pakwagen was feared. It is a wheeled tank destroyer, but definitely much better than those Panzer IVs with tracks. Tbh, Pakwagen will do well even if the BR is increased from 3.0 to 4.0. Many people take them to 4.0 anyways.

 

8 hours ago, CreditCardCmndo said:

Then you have a slightly better gun elevation on the AMX as well as the same Turret traverse when both fully spaded on the same crew.

That is only 3 degrees of better gun elevation. I would rather change that 3 degrees of better gun elevation on AMX-13 and change it to 3 degrees of better gun depression. Tell me, if having a good gun elevation is so important, why are people keeping criticizing about poor gun depression on Soviet tanks? It is simple: you shoot downwards way more than you shoot upwards. Shooting downwards offers you more advantages than shooting upwards.

 

8 hours ago, CreditCardCmndo said:

Also noticed the Smaller siluoette on the AMX? it aint an easy Vehicle to spot.

The moment you fire, most of the enemy will start look towards in your direction. You don't need me to remind you that Radkampfwagen 90 at 9.0 can start to spawn camp you as early as 1 min into the match for small maps (e.g. Karelia). Does the enemy team know a Radkampfwagen 90 is aiming outside the spawn? Sure they do. The moment you killed the first enemy tank, there will be other enemies noticing you already.

 

8 hours ago, CreditCardCmndo said:

you know that if you actually would sit down and look the tanks before starting a rant.

Ofc I have sat down and look at these tanks before coming here to make a topic. AMX-13 often gets into 6.7 BRs match where it have to fine aim or side shots to get kills efficiently (you will struggle to kill Tiger II even in medium distance engagement), while E.B.R have no problem deleting any tanks within its BR range (it is always center mass shot = 1 kill, even from front). You can get 5+ on every match with E.B.R if the player is competent enough, but you will not get 5+ kills in every AMX-13 match.

 

I didn't say all these stuffs without any basis. Either I have played in matches where I have achieved the results consistently, or I have seen the friends I squad up with achieving it consistently.

 

Final point: while AMX-13 isn't really a 6.0 material (it can goes down to 5.7 - but definitely not 5.3), E.B.R is definitely not a 4.7 material either (this thing will do well even in 5.0).

 

The only point I have that contradicts my own argument and "support" E.B.R at 4.7 is that it can get a really good lineup at 4.7, not in 5.0. That's it. :D

Edited by Exophobia
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18 hours ago, Valcour said:

BR has become more unreliable as an indicator as years have passed.  I think the whole system needs to be readjusted.  With the number of vehicles in game that would be a mammoth task though.

 

 

Why is it a mammoth task

 

make a pro round table and the community fix it in 2 days. It's only "mammoth" because the people doing the adjusting have little idea of fundamentals

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3 minutes ago, Daffan said:

because the people doing the adjusting

 

They also don't play their own game with little to no testing sometimes its just straight up sales strategy.

Harrier Gr.1 at 9.3? come on like gaijin didn't know it would blow up but it worked ppl bought it up like crazy 

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Just now, CreditCardCmndo said:

 

They also don't play their own game with little to no testing sometimes its just straight up sales strategy.

Harrier Gr.1 at 9.3? come on like gaijin didn't know it would blow up but it worked ppl bought it up like crazy 

can you imagine a dev stream where they actually play RB

 

 

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1 minute ago, Daffan said:

can you imagine a dev stream where they actually play RB

 

 

 

It would be hilarous, just silence on their part when they realize that some vehicles are totally out of place.

You know that akward silence when you know you messed up.

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look at the repair costs too. It makes no sense whatsoever in case of the AMX-13.

 

E.B.R 4.7br POT-51A(182mm) Repair cost: 2,600sl
SA50 4.7br same and PCOT-51P that has 202mm max pen Repair cost: 4,517sl
 

AMX-13 at 6.3br it has the same POT-51A and PCOT-51P shells, can scout like the EBR, however its max repair cost is 7,240sl

 

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1 hour ago, Cpt_Bel_V said:

Funny,... I'll have said 2 week mostly. 

 

Or did you took only players who have reached a high level in a lot of nations? 

 

doesn't matter too much how many factions someone has tbh, just their raw performance, because in a round table u will have 30 high level points of view in live discussion to contrast each faction and matchup.

 

can u imagine how much work gets done with 30 best ppl in a twitch roundable vs 5 people who never played the game before using fake stats?

 

 

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4 hours ago, Jacky95 said:

 

E.B.R 4.7br POT-51A(182mm) Repair cost: 2,600sl
SA50 4.7br same and PCOT-51P that has 202mm max pen Repair cost: 4,517sl

Premium tanks always have lower repair costs than tech trees equivalents.

You're also comparing a Tier III with a Tier IV and a 4.7 with a 6.3 BR.

Edited by Despeao
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42 minutes ago, Despeao said:

Premium tanks always have lower repair costs than tech trees equivalents.

You're also comparing a Tier III with a Tier IV and a 4.7 with a 6.3 BR.

To be fair, tier doesnt really matter. Many french rank IV's are the same br as rank V's, and about battle rating, the reason were doing this comparison is that the 4.7 tank is in some (many) cases better than the 6.3. And with the EBR's performance the repair should be very high either way to be fair (even though i dont like repair cost balancing to be frank).

Edited by Oyjvindi22
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20 hours ago, Despeao said:

Premium tanks always have lower repair costs than tech trees equivalents.

You're also comparing a Tier III with a Tier IV and a 4.7 with a 6.3 BR.

bruh. Sa50. can you not read?

Tiers have nothing to do with repair cost. Repair cost is a tool for balancing. The point is there is no logical explanation for the AMX-13 being that expensive when its the Sa50 and EBR smushed together but sitting at 6.3... 

20 hours ago, Oyjvindi22 said:

And with the EBR's performance the repair should be very high either way to be fair (even though i dont like repair cost balancing to be frank).

no its should not be. Repair cost albeit its a tool for balancing, its a bad tool for it. The EBR has nothing to do at 4.7. Its just that simple. Either move it as it is to 5.3 or add its realistic suspension and everything else that was cut for the 4.7 br from its performance(un nerf it) and move it to 6.3.

Making more things expensive just pushes people away from the already expensive French tech tree.

Edited by Jacky95

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3 hours ago, Jacky95 said:

bruh. Sa50. can you not read?

Tiers have nothing to do with repair cost. Repair cost is a tool for balancing. The point is there is no logical explanation for the AMX-13 being that expensive when its the Sa50 and EBR smushed together but sitting at 6.3... 

no its should not be. Repair cost albeit its a tool for balancing, its a bad tool for it. The EBR has nothing to do at 4.7. Its just that simple. Either move it as it is to 5.3 or add its realistic suspension and everything else that was cut for the 4.7 br from its performance(un nerf it) and move it to 6.3.

Making more things expensive just pushes people away from the already expensive French tech tree.

As i stated, i don't agree with rep costs to be fair. And i didn't mean it in the way as "high repair cost instead of br raise (looks at Lorraine 40t. when it was first introduced)" but rather as a direct answer to Despao. And even as it is it should be moved up to atleast 5.7-6.0 (it can quite easily reach high speeds, but for a higher br than that it needs to be able to go up even the slightest incline at a faster speed than 10 kph).

Edited by Oyjvindi22
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On 08/01/2021 at 13:53, Daffan said:

can u imagine how much work gets done with 30 best ppl in a twitch roundable vs 5 people who never played the game before using fake stats?

On my PoV, I'll say that I'm needing 2 more peoples and me, to do such a work, and it'll stand better than ever. 

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YEP gaijin put the same type vehicle  on tires and tracks and gave totally different BR can you imagine Leopard I in  4.7 lol thats what happened

On 03/01/2021 at 19:19, HalbKana said:

The R3 seems to be a good antidote to EBR epidemic

 

On 08/01/2021 at 16:09, Despeao said:

Premium tanks always have lower repair costs than tech trees equivalents.

You're also comparing a Tier III with a Tier IV and a 4.7 with a 6.3 BR.

Cost do not have to do with TIER but how rare was in reality a vehicle a prototype rate mass produced cheap its realism

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On 08/01/2021 at 15:09, Despeao said:

Premium tanks always have lower repair costs than tech trees equivalents.


Unfortunately that is not true.  Check the Iron Duke (6 900) and Comet I (3 558)..... makes NO sense AT ALL.
 

9 hours ago, Panther_Jo said:

Cost do not have to do with TIER but how rare was in reality a vehicle a prototype rate mass produced cheap its realism

 

Where did you get that from?  I presume it is a guess?  Above example also contradicts your idea.
 

9 hours ago, Panther_Jo said:

YEP gaijin put the same type vehicle  on tires and tracks and gave totally different BR can you imagine Leopard I in  4.7 lol thats what happened


So, the gun already exists at 4.7, the round turns up twice at 4.7.  So nothing like what you describe.

SPAM causes the issue, not just the vehicles capabilities.

Similar vehicle, also event, sits at 3.0... yet not spammed and not even noticed.... my most played vehicle in the game, gets caught out with unlucky/bad decisions, but when I'm on a roll Tigers/IS's/Jumbos... etc etc all have very little chance due to a 4 sec reload and stabiliser with a decent penetrating round.  Yet NEVER seen a complaint about the vehicle...

Knee Jerk reactions are not the best...

Edited by Deranger79
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