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1 hour ago, Leelareso said:

Why He in gf have very low penetration ?? Mg can penetrate 12 mm but 75mm cannon  he only 10 mm :D  pathetic

Ha-Go has 12-13mm armour 

 

US 75mm HE obliterated those things completly  but in game it doesn’t cuz HE effective only 10mm instead of over 13mm

Edited by Laurelix
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3 hours ago, Leelareso said:

Why He in gf have very low penetration ?? Mg can penetrate 12 mm but 75mm cannon  he only 10 mm :D  pathetic

Good point. The penetration of HE shells is complete nonsensical. A 75/76mm HE shells (500-600m/s) would generally penetrate around 30mm of armor with its KE and around 20mm of armor through the explosion. They also deal hardly any damage to tank tracks in-game:dntknw:

 

So a Sherman firing 75mm HE wouldn't even be able to knock out a AT gun, if it was for War Thunders HE damage model.

 

Edited by KillaKiwi
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Because explosions struggle to break things that have lots of tensile strength, like metals.

Edited by AraMacao
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On 11/01/2021 at 16:43, Morrrtanius said:

There is one productive use I have found for the HE shells on the Jagdtiger. On the IS-3, firing it in the small space between the base of the gun barrel and the driver's hatch has a high chance of taking out the entire vehicle. It's also effective against the ceiling of the T-10M's turret.

The only reason why I carry HE shells on the Maus, in case I run into an IS-3 from the front :D

 

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On 12/01/2021 at 22:26, Renamed56354 said:

I still get some non hullbreak with my 155mm big **** cannon when i fired HE to BMPs

i have non hullbreaks with fv 4005 shoting to r3 or E.B.R . or funny ricochets. recently I bounced fv 4005 from slightly tilted glass. obraz.thumb.png.89d289912ece02df3511a2e3

Edited by Leelareso
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2 hours ago, KillaKiwi said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPG-40

http://www.tankarchives.ca/2021/01/red-armys-first-heat-grenades.html

 

According to those websites, the RPG-40 with 760g of TNT could penetrate 20mm of armor plate.

HE effect heh?

Obviously it won’t be 40mm vs 1500g

Edited by Laurelix
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19 minutes ago, Laurelix said:

Obviously it won’t be 40mm vs 1500g

Yeah because an explosion affects the area around it and not just in front. So most of the energy is not used to penetrate the plate.

 

If we think two dimensional it would be like this:

If you think of a cake slice, for example 1/8, and want a slice in the same shape that is double the amount of cake, the cake itself would need to be four times as big.

But then the 1/8 also would have a bigger radius and despite the slice being twice as big, the amount of cake per radius isn't twice as large.

 

So if our cake was actually an explosion, four times the explosion still wouldn't put twice the energy over the same area that is required to penetrate the plate.

And since an explosion is three dimensional we would at least need nine times the explosive mass to double the effect.

 

Of course, in reality, even if the armor is not penetrated, the plate would still need to absorb a lot of energy, that might be enough to destroy whatever is holding it in place.

So a turret might get blown off without the armor actually being penetrated.

 

So simplified, a 122mm shell with 3.6kg explosive would penetrate ~33.5mm vs 20mm of 760g, while 95g of explosive would still be able to penetrate 10mm.

But due to the shape of the explosve, the actual penetration might be completely different, depending on impact angle.

 

An ellipsoid shaped explosive would have more explosive affecting an area on the side of the shell than a ball of explosive which affects all directions equally, for example.

 

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18 hours ago, AssaultPlazma said:

Does HESH still cause hullbreak? 

Yes

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I can't remember a time when I ever carried a single round of ammunition after my first few battles.

It's kind of like using a feather duster to sink a battleship; you will usually need a billion or so shots to actually take it out.

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On 14/01/2021 at 17:39, AssaultPlazma said:

Does HESH still cause hullbreak? 

The Gepard that just killed me says "no"

 

I think the real answer is that chemical hullbreak is total RNG and you'd be better off not relying on it

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HE in this game is really severely underpowered. This is especially true for high caliber HE like 12cm and 15cm guns. If you don't believe me here is an article link with some interesting historical photos on the subject. link

 

Or, a TLDR:

Panther hit by 15cm HE from the side at over a kilometer

Ferdinand/Elephant, a thing with more armor than a Tiger I hit in the front by 15cm HE again at over 1km

Tiger II, same range presumably and turret side. Again, HE shell.

 

Compare that to the performance 15cm HE does in warthunder. The ISU-152 was called a beast killer by the troops for a reason. There was NOTHING it couldn't penetrate just by throwing plain old HE at it. And yet in game you might as well be firing machineguns at stuff it historically demolished.

Edited by PPQ_Purple

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1 hour ago, PPQ_Purple said:

HE in this game is really severely underpowered. This is especially true for high caliber HE like 12cm and 15cm guns. If you don't believe me here is an article link with some interesting historical photos on the subject. link

 

Or, a TLDR:

Panther hit by 15cm HE from the side at over a kilometer

Ferdinand/Elephant, a thing with more armor than a Tiger I hit in the front by 15cm HE again at over 1km

Tiger II, same range presumably and turret side. Again, HE shell.

 

Compare that to the performance 15cm HE does in warthunder. The ISU-152 was called a beast killer by the troops for a reason. There was NOTHING it couldn't penetrate just by throwing plain old HE at it. And yet in game you might as well be firing machineguns at stuff it historically demolished.


According to Gaijin logic, sicret dokumintz are there to prove you wrong.
There was a video, where a low calibre HE shell (something like 100mm), bounces off from the roof of a Lada.

Barely touching it, angle of attack is low, <5*. Results?
The roof gets pretty damaged just from the bounce off. Like, "you would need a new car damaged".

Here, a light vehicle, with 10mm of aluminium as side armor tanks a 125mm HE from MBT , and nothing happens (me, in T-72, shooting an R3 in the side with HE ).
Or multiple hits on an Class 3, with both HE and APFSDS, basically playing whack-a-mole, because the interior is full of air, there is no spalling at all, and there is no hullbreak from russian HE anymore (ANY calibre,  EVEN the KV-2/Obj 268 does not hullbreak anymore).
And certain vehicles, like the Radkampfwagen 90 do not hullbreak AT ALL. Hit it with ATGM? Nothing, schrapnels  disappear into 20mm aluminium armor. But if i hit an Leopard 1 frontally with the same ATGM, it goes to the moon.

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22 minutes ago, PPQ_Purple said:

HE in this game is really severely underpowered. This is especially true for high caliber HE like 12cm and 15cm guns. If you don't believe me here is an article link with some interesting historical photos on the subject. link

The only time a 152mm HE shell was used was against the side turret of the Panther. All other photos show the impact of 152mm APHE or AC shells.

 

31 minutes ago, PPQ_Purple said:

The ISU-152 was called a beast killer by the troops for a reason.

It was called that way because it could deal some massive damage to Panthers and Tigers with AP and HE shells. The other guns the Soviet had at the time were simply not that effective.

 

32 minutes ago, PPQ_Purple said:

There was NOTHING it couldn't penetrate just by throwing plain old HE at i

It could knock out any tank with a hit to the turret, that would either cause the explosion to penetrate the hull roof or knock off the turret by great momentum of the shell.

However these guns still had AP shells for a reason.

 

 

HE shells are great against thin armored targets and when AP shells have no effect at all, but generally you still want to fire AP shells against tanks.

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2 hours ago, PPQ_Purple said:

HE in this game is really severely underpowered. This is especially true for high caliber HE like 12cm and 15cm guns. If you don't believe me here is an article link with some interesting historical photos on the subject. link

 

Or, a TLDR:

Panther hit by 15cm HE from the side at over a kilometer

Ferdinand/Elephant, a thing with more armor than a Tiger I hit in the front by 15cm HE again at over 1km

Tiger II, same range presumably and turret side. Again, HE shell.

 

Compare that to the performance 15cm HE does in warthunder. The ISU-152 was called a beast killer by the troops for a reason. There was NOTHING it couldn't penetrate just by throwing plain old HE at it. And yet in game you might as well be firing machineguns at stuff it historically demolished.


Assuming ammo didn’t cook off then in game that Panther would have the radio operator replacing the gunner within 8 to 10 seconds and then he and the driver would fix the breech, turret ring etc in about 30 to 40 seconds. They can do this while still under fire. 

 

This game is just a shooter. Gaijin lost interest in making it realistic a long time ago.

 

The last refuge for anything resembling authenticity and accuracy in this game is probably Air Sim mode.

 

Anything that could penetrate or damage a tank IRL would have been useful and would have resulted in a crippled or abandoned tank. A mission kill. So knocking a track off a Tiger at Kursk with HE would have been a significant success. In War Thunder losing a track is a trifling inconvenience for 10 to 20 seconds. 
 

Ammo that cannot reliably one shot a tank in game is considered dead weight. HE, HESH, HEAT. Until recently solid AP. Not meta. As liable to get you killed as get the enemy killed. 
 

 

Edited by Drusas
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Don't know what you all mean the larger Caliber HE Shell still are a force to be reckoned with. And yes the russian 15cm HE shell is able to blast through a Panther D turret side blowing up the ammo stored below the turret ring aswell so whats your point?

 

But i agree that smaller caliber seem to have little to no effect. A little more damaging power may be enough to make em more viable.

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