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2021-05-07 [2.5.1.112] ARL 44 ACL 1 Wrong and missing ammunition


The ARL-44 ACL-1 has munition with the wrong weight and velocity.

 

Ingame (last check : April 18th 2021) and on the wiki the shell stat card reports the shell as a 6.5 kg shell at 700m/s

According to sources it is in fact a 6.4 kg shell flying at 715 m/s

And they are APCBC (second part of the bug report)

 

As first source i will re use one accepted for an older bug report, within this document you can also find it fired the same 6.4 kg ammunition but at higher velocities (survitesse) between 745 and 755 m/s. This could be considered as ammunition upgrade for the ARL 44 ACL-1.

Spoiler

649-2H1-+ARL+44+-+4_zps9rqyyowb.jpg

Here are copy pasted references for the image :

 

 

Date : 4 march 1946 - photography at the Military Archives of Châtellerault (France) ; May 2016

 

Author: Société Anonyme des Ateliers et Chantiers de la Loire (SA ACL)

 

Object: letter to the Regional Director of Paris; about the Turret ACL-1

 

 

 

As a second source , i will use COMHArT Tome 9L’ARMEMENT DE GROS CALIBRE par l'ingénieur général de l’armement Michel MAREST et l'ingénieur en chef de l’armement (retr.) Michel TAUZIN. the source is a work by former engineers of the DGA  If you look at the link from the INSERM which is part of the French Ministry of Defence. The document can be considered as another primary source

 

Link : https://www.irsem.fr/data/files/irsem/documents/document/file/1641/Ouvrage_TAUZIN_Tome_9_Armenent_gros_calibre.pdf

 

Page 47 where within the spreadsheet "Cartouche à projectile perforant" is the AP shell. it is listed as a 6.4 kg at 715 m/s too.

 

 

 

 

 

Additional information :

 

I know using "ogive" in google translate will give you "warhead" in english but the word has other meanings such as a certain shape in construction known as "rib vaulting".

 

The AP shells described in the documents are said to be "ogivé" and "coiffé".

as indicated by "les conditions de tir sont celles du boulet perforant Modèle 1944, ogivé, coiffé"

Translation "the test conditions are those of the AP shell model 1944, with a Ballistic Cap , and a Cap"   (test conditions are because the SA44 was meant as a platform to see how a high pressure 75 gun would perform,)

 

Spoiler

649-2H1-+ARL+44+-+4_zps9rqyyowb.jpg

 

 

What would this mean ?

 

 

 

A/ What is "ogivé" ?

 

Obus Ogivé also named Obus à fausse ogive is like this (middle one), here for a 190mm gun. It means the shell has a ballistic cap.

(here  F A O means Fonte aciérée Ogivée, fonte aciérée being a type of metal to make the shells)

(do not worry ogive, ogivé and ogivée means the same thing it is just to adapt the word to where it is put in a sentence)

Spoiler

Capturedecran20170612a20.25.38.png

Source : Réglement de Manoeuvre du Matériel et des Munitions de 194 Mle 1870-93 (1924)

 

Why is it named ogivé / à fausse ogive ?  Because its shape is similar to chrisitan vaulting constructions like this.

Spoiler

Chapelle-ste-th%C3%A9r%C3%A8se.jpg

 

 

B/ What is "coiffé" ?

 

Obus à coiffe / obus coiffé (Capped)

Here a document about the caps used by differet navies in the world 

Spoiler

190_001.jpg?v=1

 

Source : https://www.delcampe.net/fr/collections/militaria/autres/les-obus-a-coiffe-1916-1094043190.html

A website know to sell historical documents and various items sought by collectors.

 

 

 

C/ the P C O T shell

 

Finally ingame example PCOT = Perforant (armour piercing)  -  Coiffé (capped)  -  Ogivé (ballistic cap)  -  Traceur (tracer).  (as seen in the first picture)

                                       POT = Perforant (AP)  -  Ogive (BC)  -  Tracer (Tracer)  (which means the  POT shell is wrong too but that is going to be another report)

 

2nd image 

coiffe de pénétration = Cap (literally : penetration cap)

Fausse ogive =  ballistic cap 

 

 

 

Therefore the ARL 44 ACL 1 shells are APCBC shells and not APC

 

 

Edited by nxdefiant001
additional information
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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi,

Thanks for the report.

I will read, investigate, test if needed and get back to you soon.

 

Cheers, Object187

Technical Moderation Team

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Hello! 
  Thank you for your interest and help improving the game.  Your information has been forwarded to the Developers for their consideration.

 If there is anything further regarding this report a Technical Moderator will contact you.

 

  Thank you again for your support. 

 

Kind Regards, Object187

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  • Object187 changed the title to 2021-05-07 [2.5.1.112] ARL 44 ACL 1 Wrong and missing ammunition
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