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Ok fine, but the M1 Abrams is still missing the M833 shell. I can only trust that the calcuolatory system Gaijin uses is correct when it comes to penetration. You are correct in saying that Wikipedia is not a source, I am sorry. On the contrary, the M60A3, is missing this exact shell as well.

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Abrams in Desert Storm did in fact carry M900 rounds (but never fired at enemy tanks). However Gaijin doesn't add all the rounds to a tank, it comes down to balance, if its necessary they will add it. 

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I used Wikipedia as a source because there was no other source for its penetration, which as I said, should be 495mm, and not 395mm. The M1, IPM1,and M60A3 cannot penetrate the T-72B , T-80U, T-90A, or the T-72B3 reliably with outdated ammunition, while on the other hand most Russian tanks at 10.0, 9.7, and above have 400+ penetration ammunition and they can easily penetrate them, since they get uptiered and tend to meet them in battle, unless they aim for specific weak spots. The M833 should be buffed, and the shell the Stryker fires in games needs to be given to the M1,IPM1, and the M60A3, along with whatever balancing needs done.

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3 hours ago, Oxide61 said:

The M1, IPM1,and M60A3 cannot penetrate the T-72B , T-80U, T-90A, or the T-72B3 reliably

Neither can the Leopard 2K, Leopard 2A4, Strv 122, Challenger Mk.2, Challenger Mk.3, Vickers MK 7, AMX-40 and AMX-32

3 hours ago, Oxide61 said:

The M833 should be buffed

No it shouldn't.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Oxide61 said:

. The M1, IPM1,and M60A3 cannot penetrate the T-72B , T-80U, T-90A, or the T-72B3 reliably with outdated ammunition.

Sure let the M1 have a high pen round.

 

While at the same time lets also give T-72B thermals and the every russian MBT the same gun handling and reverse speed and mobility of the abrams.

 

Jokes aside, i don like ppl like you who only thinks tank are balanced by ammo.

Edited by [email protected]
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1 hour ago, ADrunkMoth said:

Tanks should be balanced by real world performance, not arbitrary limits.

And theres a limit on how much real life performance should factor in before it breaks the game. 

 

Edit: oh you don have neither american or russian 9.x onward.... Guess you better get those first mate.

 

 

 

Edited by [email protected]
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6 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

And theres a limit on how much real life performance should factor in before it breaks the game. 

 

Edit: oh you don have neither american or russian 9.x onward.... Guess you better get those first mate.

 

 

 

Considering the game is stated as being realistic, vehicles should perform to historical standards and be balanced by that afterwards. I don't need to play top tier to tell you that. Not like I care what a whale who bought their way thru the game says. You and people like you are why Gaijin is some comfortable making bad decisions. You people will gobble it down regardless.

 

BTW, if I decided to buy premiums and stick to just two nations, I've be at 10.7 by now. And that's including having taken a two year break. So, you've got no room to tell me anything.

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1 hour ago, ADrunkMoth said:

Considering the game is stated as being realistic, vehicles should perform to historical standards and be balanced by that afterwards. I don't need to play top tier to tell you that. Not like I care what a whale who bought their way thru the game says. You and people like you are why Gaijin is some comfortable making bad decisions. You people will gobble it down regardless.

 

BTW, if I decided to buy premiums and stick to just two nations, I've be at 10.7 by now. And that's including having taken a two year break. So, you've got no room to tell me anything.

Its realistic but its still a game. A proper balance game is needed, Abrams are one of the most mobile mbt at that br, giving it some crazy pen round is not needed considering its overal performance in other field, 1500hp gas turbine at 50tons

 

You can call me anything you want, i hardly care about it.

 

But at 9.x onward i have more battles and experience than you. That is an undisputed fact.

 

Gameplay at that high br have notables difference than the br you are at so you cant just say " i don need to play top tier" bs

Edited by [email protected]
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On 03/01/2021 at 18:47, [email protected] said:

Its realistic but its still a game. A proper balance game is needed, Abrams are one of the most mobile mbt at that br, giving it some crazy pen round is not needed considering its overal performance in other field, 1500hp gas turbine at 50tons

 

You can call me anything you want, i hardly care about it.

 

But at 9.x onward i have more battles and experience than you. That is an undisputed fact.

 

Gameplay at that high br have notables difference than the br you are at so you cant just say " i don need to play top tier" bs

Balance is fine, build it around historical performance as the game is supposed to have done. If you want fantasy, go play WOT. Whales do better over there anyway. Your experience is irrelevant. And I don't need to play top tier to tell you that.

 

Edited by ADrunkMoth
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12 minutes ago, ADrunkMoth said:

Balance is fine, build it around historical performance as the game is supposed to have done. If you want fantasy, go play WOT. Whales do better over there anyway. You're experience is irrelevant. And I don't need to play top tier to tell you that.

 

How bout go play top tier first before you speak, as far as i know you don know top tier at all to actually be relevant in top tier post.

 

Things are very different from your 7.0 br,

 

unless you are at least at 8.7, your opinion really does not matter here.

 

Also there is no fantasy involved, it just that the M1 did not have a round that op want in game. And it really should not considering it performance on other aspect

 

The round it have still historical accurate.

 

Guess that shows how little you know

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On 29/12/2020 at 17:54, Oxide61 said:

To add, on the topic of shells, the M60A3 and the M1 are also missing the updated M900 ammunition.

The M60A3 cannot fire M900. The recoil is to great necessitating a reinforced breach. This is known as the M68A1 gun. Only the M1/M1IP and M1128 can fire M900 due to being equipped with the aforementioned M68A1 gun. FWIW the proposed M60 Super also had the M68A1 and would be capable of firing M900. 

14 hours ago, ADrunkMoth said:

Considering the game is stated as being realistic, vehicles should perform to historical standards and be balanced by that afterwards. I don't need to play top tier to tell you that. Not like I care what a whale who bought their way thru the game says. You and people like you are why Gaijin is some comfortable making bad decisions. You people will gobble it down regardless.

 

BTW, if I decided to buy premiums and stick to just two nations, I've be at 10.7 by now. And that's including having taken a two year break. So, you've got no room to tell me anything.

The game is only selectively realistic whenever it's convenient. The same community that loves to hold up WT on some pedestal cause "muh realism" and chastise "that other game" will just as quickly handwave "realism" when it gets in the way of balance. I'll keep saying this 

 

"you can have either a balanced game or a realistic game. You cannot have both because real life is not designed to be fair." 

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On 29/12/2020 at 15:13, Oxide61 said:

M833 delivers 490mm of penetration

 

It does not.

 

24mm x 427mm penetrator design physically cannot penetrate 490mm of RHA @ 0°.

At 70° (from vertical) it does however achieve 504mm of penetration, you're confusing the angle of attack.

 

On 29/12/2020 at 23:24, Oxide61 said:

Ok fine, but the M1 Abrams is still missing the M833 shell.

 

It is not.

 

M1 Abrams entered service with M774, which it has in-game as well.

M833 is a more modern shell than the M1 Abrams, which is why the IPM1 (DOI: 1984) is given this shell type.

 

Quote

You are correct in saying that Wikipedia is not a source, I am sorry.

 

You can still scroll down and just chech the reference material used on any Wikipedia article.

 

On 30/12/2020 at 01:54, Oxide61 said:

the M60A3 and the M1 are also missing the updated M900 ammunition.

 

M60's don't fire M900.

M833 wasn't in service yet by the time the M1 Abrams came about, let alone M900.

 

On 30/12/2020 at 17:43, Oxide61 said:

The M1, IPM1,and M60A3 cannot penetrate the T-72B , T-80U, T-90A, or the T-72B3 reliably with outdated ammunition

 

Which is why you aim for weakspots.

It's as simple as that.

 

Quote

while on the other hand most Russian tanks at 10.0, 9.7, and above have 400+ penetration ammunition and they can easily penetrate them,

 

Because that's what's balanced.

Soviet/Russian designs get superior penetration and frontal armour, but the trade-off is inferior mobility, reload rate, thermals, survivability and gun handling characteristics.

 

 

Edited by Necrons31467
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You got me on the M68 cannon, the M60 cannot fire M900. But if Gaijin promotes realism, they should give the M1 and IPM1 M900. The M833 can penetrate 490mm RHAe (KE), that’s realism, in game it’s 395mm, and at this BR every nation has a APFSDS round that can pen 400mm plus. I’m saying if Gaijin was realistic they wouldn’t tamper with ammo, or armor, and add the correct values, maybe increase BR a little. But at top tier you die quick anyway due to high penetrating shells. So this issue with penetration shouldn’t matter. It’s about the tank, armor, and performance thereof.

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2 hours ago, Oxide61 said:

You got me on the M68 cannon, the M60 cannot fire M900. But if Gaijin promotes realism, they should give the M1 and IPM1 M900. The M833 can penetrate 490mm RHAe (KE), that’s realism, in game it’s 395mm, and at this BR every nation has a APFSDS round that can pen 400mm plus. I’m saying if Gaijin was realistic they wouldn’t tamper with ammo, or armor, and add the correct values, maybe increase BR a little. But at top tier you die quick anyway due to high penetrating shells. So this issue with penetration shouldn’t matter. It’s about the tank, armor, and performance thereof.

as others said ammo is a thing that they use to balance the gameplay . M3bradley has Itows  . and ah1(f) can use tow 2 missiles 

Spoiler

 

or viper has an addon radar . M1A1 can fire those airburst heat shells too. 

which are mostly correct because they are doing fine. but some are better to be added like tow2B which is AMERICAN not chinese.

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On 07/01/2021 at 17:56, Oxide61 said:

The M833 can penetrate 490mm RHAe (KE), that’s realism, in game it’s 395mm, and at this BR every nation has a APFSDS round that can pen 400mm plus.

The DM53 can "penetrate" 1000mm RHAe (KE), that's realism, in game it's 652mm, and at this BR every nation has a APFSDS round that can pen 500mm plus.

 

 

 

/s

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Last thing I’ll say and I’ll stop, IPM1 and M1 are using outdated ammunition, if Gaijin won’t give them M900 for whatever reason, just give the M1 M833 as it had in real life, and buff M833 to 490mm of pen to be realistic, so they can be on par with Soviet and German tanks, and other nations tanks as well, so the tanks have a 400+ pen shell like they do. 

Edited by Oxide61
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11 minutes ago, Oxide61 said:

Last thing I’ll say and I’ll stop, IPM1 and M1 are using outdated ammunition, if Gaijin won’t give them M900 for whatever reason, just give the M1 M833 as it had in real life, and buff M833 to 490mm of pen to be realistic, so they can be on par with Soviet and German tanks, and other nations tanks as well, so the tanks have a 400+ pen shell like they do. 

they arent using outdated ammo, they are just using the ammo that they have when enter in servicen, the m900 is an 1989 ammo, while the 833 is an 1983 round, which match the date of the ipm1 and the m833 actually penetrate around 490 mm in the game, but los at 60º not at 0º since the penetrator isnt long enough, and btw the olders breachs from the m1s cant fire safely the m900

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19 hours ago, SrNowel59917 said:

they arent using outdated ammo, they are just using the ammo that they have when enter in servicen, the m900 is an 1989 ammo, while the 833 is an 1983 round, which match the date of the ipm1 and the m833 actually penetrate around 490 mm in the game, but los at 60º not at 0º since the penetrator isnt long enough, and btw the olders breachs from the m1s cant fire safely the m900

Thank you for telling me, I was pondering to myself about this issue, thank you for telling me this. 

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