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so sad my short range missiles are useless chasing a mach jet, im now at a br where these missiles aren't even good anymore. You're gonna put the gr.1 at par with the jaguar a which has r550 magic missiles and keep the yak-38 which actually has the best missiles in the game by your guys own admission down at 9.3. What has happened here is now the yak-38 is gonna destroy all 8.3 aircraft. Good luck breaking a 30 g missile in an f9f8

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2 hours ago, Gawr_Gura said:

A7-D moving to 9.7 was a dumb change, it was fine at 9.3, basically this update condemned all those jets to be at 10.7.

We should have a better system of moving BRs on vehicles rather than looking at 'stats'.

 

Played the A7-D long enough to notice it does terrible in 10.7 games, had friends up-tier me on purpose in 10.7 games for a while to see how it performs, it does horrible, it's like sticking a B29 in a Super Sonic Jet match, fine 9.7 is okay for ground battles, but in air? 9.3 was perfect. It's just like the F89B, it's only moved up a Br because of the guns for ground RB, it doesn't do well in air RB.

 

Instead of moving stuff, there should be more feeedback and actual looking into things rather than, "this has high k/d lets move it" we all know how it goes, and it was said many times stuff gets moved based on stats. It's the F11 all over again, fun jet, well placed, allot of people play it so it get's br changed and nerfed into the ground to where people just stop paying it. A7-D wasnt even out for long and aleady moved BR. 

 

If you are gonna move the A7-D and Harrier (I hate that thing but still) , move the already 10.7 jets to 11.0 then, you're compressing the air battles too much, this is very frustrating.

Things to move since you compressed top jets, move all these to 11.0, OR bring back the 9.7 cap, we all know it was there, countless videos and experiments proved it.

	USA
F-4C 			10.7 -> 11.0
F-4E 			10.7 -> 11.0

	Germany
MiG-21MF 		10.7 -> 11.0

	USSR
MiG-21SMT 		10.7 -> 11.0
MiG-21bis 		10.7 -> 11.0

	Great Britain
Phantom FGR.2 		10.7 -> 11.0
Phantom FGR.1 		10.7 -> 11.0
Jaguar GR.1 		10.0 -> 11.0

	Japan
F-4EJ Phantom II 	10.7 -> 11.0
F-1 			10.3 -> 11.0

	China
F-104G 			10.7 -> 11.0

	France
Mirage IIIC 		10.7 -> 11.0
Jaguar A 		10.0 -> 11.0

	Sweden
J35D 			10.7 -> 11.0

 

and i would say the harrier was fine where it was in a nice sweet spot but why let it stay in a sweet spot

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After today's update it seems like the MiG-21F-13 NR-30 cannon is broken or at least default belts are. I don't have the Offensive 30mm mod yet. I noticed in 4 matches that enemies were flying through tracers rounds for bursts that seemed like they should have hit. The first two matches I assumed it was lag but after the last two rounds that I noticed it I checked the server replays and was able to verify the enemy flying through my tracers with no hits (there should be two rounds between tracers). The 4th replay actually showed puffs of smoke in two separate bursts that I didn't see in the live match but there was no indication of damage to the enemy plane. Once I saw these two replays I went into a test flight attempted to test my theory. It's hard to have a controlled test but it really does seem like the tracer round itself is the only round that is registering damage. The game seems to act like the other two rounds are not there on targets but shooting at the ground does register the non-tracers rounds as puffs of dirt. I will try to unlock the ammo mod to see if that makes a difference.

Edited by Bloodlet
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9 hours ago, Smin1080p said:

 

Because of the weapon platform it has that is unique to that and only that variant that makes it far more potent than any other. SRAAM.

But these weapons right now are bad. This is not the old SRAAM, the new barely track if your around 600km/h and most of the time they explode in front of you.  Also with how slow the GR1 and how much of a whale s that thing. it has not chance to kill a thing in 10+.

This is a terrible decision. I don't know why gaijin didn't do the same as they did with the FG9. Making it have a lock MM were it cant face under 9.0 or adobe 10. The hunter F6 is being death since it was move to 10 and the harrier that is worst in every aspect that isn't acceleration will be the same. 


Edit; Maybe this is a good thing. Maybe it will balance the SMT/Bis.  that currently win rate has skyrocket since New power. And Gaijin still hasn't done a thing to fix it.  

 

Edited by Temeraire
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In my opinion, mooving GR.1 to 10.0 is Ok (even in case when I bought it one hour before this change) becasue game on 8.7-9.7 was a horror. Problem is BR compresion, now GR.1 suffer pernament uptier. I spend hole day yesterady in my GR.1 and all 15 rund I played after br change was uptier wtih top jets. This is some kind off bulls..t. GR.1 is flying brick without flars... We need Br decopresion and top jet separation, 10.7 (or 11.0 as it should be) should play only with 10.7 (or 11.0). GR.1 on 10.0 is Ok when it's 10.0 not ALWAYS 10.7.   10.0/10.3 is just theoretic BR in my case...
Gaijin please help. 

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17 hours ago, Smin1080p said:

 

Because of the weapon platform it has that is unique to that and only that variant that makes it far more potent than any other. SRAAM.

 

A Weapon System that it was never actually given in its history as an OPERATIONAL weapons platform, it was replaced by the AIM-9L (could be wrong on the variant).

 

Additionally when it was given this weapons package upgrade it was made into the Harrier GR.3, as it required a systems overhaul which changed massive swathes of the plane.  As much as it was an aircraft that was strong in 8.7 tiered games, it was not dominant, as it required people to be at incredibly short ranges for the weapons to be effective - ranges where if you allow an aircraft to get there, you deserve to die as he already has you bore sighted and could switch to guns to kill you or force you into a manuovering fight which you will lose due to the aforementioned being bore sighted.

 

Uptiering an aircraft this vicariously is unfornately asinine.  Yes, there will be out lying players who will perform strongly with an aircraft and it will in effect increase the ratios shown in the performance of the aircraft, this happens with every vehicle in the game - as people get better, their stats increase and thus it effects global ratios.

 

Rather than uptiering an aircraft and effectively and unceremoniously turning it into chum for the waters where the high performance aircraft dwell, you could have changed the armament to reflect its historical layout, remove SRAAM entirely... it never had it equipped in its history during front line, second line or third line operations - it TESTED THEM and then found them to be under performing for what the Royal Air Force required the airframe to do.  It was equipped with AIM-9s of varying types, much like the GR3 as you see in game.  You have unfortunately made the Harrier GR.1 into shark bait in its current iteration and stature, which is a shame.  I know people are going to throw 'git gud' etc at me and quote stats where they soloed 9, 10, 12 etc players in a single match, but grading an aircrafts performance on the actions of a select few very capable pilots and personas is asinine and irresponsible.

 

I am sorry for the rant and sorry for the offense that I no doubt will have caused someone in this forum, however, this has left a rather horrendous taste in my mouth and is making me re-think my decisions within this game for purchases in the future.

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Well just as predicted, the Harrier is getting constantly sucked into 10.7 games now, where it is useless, as it is a bad airframe with missiles which are useless against the kinds of enemies it faces at that BR. 

 

I don't think the 10.0 BR itself is bad, the problem is that it almost never seems to fight at that BR anymore. 

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14 hours ago, Gawr_Gura said:

A7-D moving to 9.7 was a dumb change, it was fine at 9.3, basically this update condemned all those jets to be at 10.7.

 

We all well know that A-7D getting BR change so fast because it is a USA aircraft.

USA tech tree (not premium) are not allowed to have fun, not to mention that it's CAS potential is good so people use it in Ground RB a lot

by putting it to 9.7  A-7D is force to play against SAM like FlarakPZ and have chance to get kick up to 10.7 to face 2S6 so its can't go strafing run with their gunpod at all

(you know about how Leopard getting tear apart by its gun pod since the update)

 

we all know that USA tech tree aircraft is getting fastest nerf respond of all nation and nerf with little statistic or little information.

while germany plane almost never get nerf all all you can look at those Me262A1U4 at 6.7 , Seahawks Mk100 which have AAM at lowest BR (often said that AIM9B is bad but the fact it's a plane with AAM at 8.0 still real. other nation starting to have at 8.3), G91R3 with 4x ASnord that still have maneuverability of pure fighter even better than some 9.0 jets , the same for G91R4 with 4x AAM or 4x AAnord sitting at 8.7

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18 hours ago, Gawr_Gura said:

A7-D moving to 9.7 was a dumb change, it was fine at 9.3, basically this update condemned all those jets to be at 10.7.

We should have a better system of moving BRs on vehicles rather than looking at 'stats'.

 

Played the A7-D long enough to notice it does terrible in 10.7 games, had friends up-tier me on purpose in 10.7 games for a while to see how it performs, it does horrible, it's like sticking a B29 in a Super Sonic Jet match, fine 9.7 is okay for ground battles, but in air? 9.3 was perfect. It's just like the F89B, it's only moved up a Br because of the guns for ground RB, it doesn't do well in air RB.

 

Instead of moving stuff, there should be more feeedback and actual looking into things rather than, "this has high k/d lets move it" we all know how it goes, and it was said many times stuff gets moved based on stats. It's the F11 all over again, fun jet, well placed, allot of people play it so it get's br changed and nerfed into the ground to where people just stop paying it. A7-D wasnt even out for long and aleady moved BR. 

 

If you are gonna move the A7-D and Harrier (I hate that thing but still) , move the already 10.7 jets to 11.0 then, you're compressing the air battles too much, this is very frustrating.

Things to move since you compressed top jets, move all these to 11.0, OR bring back the 9.7 cap, we all know it was there, countless videos and experiments proved it.

	USA
F-4C 			10.7 -> 11.0
F-4E 			10.7 -> 11.0

	Germany
MiG-21MF 		10.7 -> 11.0

	USSR
MiG-21SMT 		10.7 -> 11.0
MiG-21bis 		10.7 -> 11.0

	Great Britain
Phantom FGR.2 		10.7 -> 11.0
Phantom FGR.1 		10.7 -> 11.0
Jaguar GR.1 		10.0 -> 11.0

	Japan
F-4EJ Phantom II 	10.7 -> 11.0
F-1 			10.3 -> 11.0

	China
F-104G 			10.7 -> 11.0

	France
Mirage IIIC 		10.7 -> 11.0
Jaguar A 		10.0 -> 11.0

	Sweden
J35D 			10.7 -> 11.0

 

I think the Jaguar GR.1 should go to 10.3

and the A should go to 10.7

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On 29/12/2020 at 23:54, Gawr_Gura said:

If you are gonna move the A7-D and Harrier (I hate that thing but still) , move the already 10.7 jets to 11.0 then, you're compressing the air battles too much, this is very frustrating.

Things to move since you compressed top jets, move all these to 11.0, OR bring back the 9.7 cap, we all know it was there, countless videos and experiments proved it.

	USA
F-4C 			10.7 -> 11.0
F-4E 			10.7 -> 11.0

	Germany
MiG-21MF 		10.7 -> 11.0

	USSR
MiG-21SMT 		10.7 -> 11.0
MiG-21bis 		10.7 -> 11.0

	Great Britain
Phantom FGR.2 		10.7 -> 11.0
Phantom FGR.1 		10.7 -> 11.0
Jaguar GR.1 		10.0 -> 11.0

	Japan
F-4EJ Phantom II 	10.7 -> 11.0
F-1 			10.3 -> 11.0

	China
F-104G 			10.7 -> 11.0

	France
Mirage IIIC 		10.7 -> 11.0
Jaguar A 		10.0 -> 11.0

	Sweden
J35D 			10.7 -> 11.0

 

 

There is some goodwill but also some massive lack of understanding of some vehicules performances from you, some of those such as say the F4C, the mig21MF and both jaguars at the very least (i'd argue even F1) have no buisness being at the same br as the top dogs, you are just putting the issue on other player's shoulders which i believe is quite irresponsible and to some extent quite hypocritical.

By that i mean that your logic is that the AIM9J (being a top dog missile) does not justify it fighting too high (granted you complain about 10.7 whilst it's 9.7 and can still verse SABRES and such that get smashed by the 9J) yet suggest the same happens to the jaguars that may have good missiles (only really true for the french one) but extremelly poor performances and challenging guns.

Concerning the F1 it doesn't have nearly as bad of an issue but it certainly still is no way near on par with the top tier and as i said you would just slide the compression bothering you onto other's shoulders which could benefit from keeping  a lower br by getting some occasional downtiers, making the stock grind less impossible for those sub-par competitors.

Concerning the mig21MF (on the fence about the smt but er) the lack of flares and the fact it faces a lot of flares render it both extremelly weak to missiles (accentuated by the weaker engine than other migs thus dropping more speed when managing to dodge if even possible) and simply generally weak against the opposition (then again accentuated by the weak engine, the MF can really struggle to catch up to it's opposition and it's "dogfight missiles" will simply be of no use). People hate on R60 forgetting it has a massive weakness over it's main competitor the AIM9J as well, it's much wider FOV which makes it extremelly weak to flare deception where sometime even a single flare can do the trick depending on the angle of launch, making it close much harder to use properly on enemy F4E's than using 9Js is for said enemy, granted the 9J face few targets that even have flares to begin with. I could talk for days about all those kind of things but i hope you get the point, all those jets should not be at the same br for a reason, their capabilities differ too much and some of them already get outright clubbed.

 

Now to come back onto the A7 topic before making this unreadable, it was by no way fine at 9.3, at the very least not when spaded and allowed to carry AIM9Js and flares. Those flares guaranteed total immunity from any missiles fired at it (AIM9B/E/G all being weak to flares as well as R60s and even SRAAM being extremelly weak to even a single flare launch) and those missiles guranteed kills on even targets had flares (which are rather rare to begin with at that br), as the AIM9J and R550 share the same small FOV making them very likelly to outright discard such countermeasures. On top of it all it has an airspawn giving it a massive edge over anything as fast or slower. Whilst te individual performace of the plane is not the fanciest the quality of it's equipement give it such a massive edge that i could not with a straight face say that it is in any way worse than an F100 than sits at 9.7, heck even than a G91YS or J32 which sit both at 10.0 with barelly better performances but insanelly sub-par equipement and NO AIR SPAWN.

You get my point i believe it should stand at 10.0 if it doesn't get nerfed in some way before that, with the air spawn, a proper use of flare, and a proper use of your own AIM9Js even at 10.7 you would actually still stand better chance at getting kills than a jaguar GR1 which sits at the same br, with no flares, poor performances, and poor missiles that always get fooled by flares (unlike yours). . .

Now keeping in mind the plane is supposed to be an ATTACKER in the first place you have better AA capabilities (both defence and offence) than a 10.0 jet fighter, i won't even start on the topic of the insanelly good guns or good ordinance at this point i'm getting tired.

If wasn't clear anywhere don't hesitate to ask me i'll try to answer in resonnable time.

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On 29/12/2020 at 12:02, Kuky_HR said:

Finally  GR1 not making ham out of 8,7, but will will see. Could be it needs to go in 10.3 maybe, how on earth is G91 in 10.0 and is weaker in every way?

 

Also other harriers could go 9.7 now. At least premium AV8

GR.1 was perfectly  FINE were it was, it has low NO missile warning system, NO flares, slow top speed compared to others, not very maneuverable, suffers at high altitudes, SRAAMS are good UDNER 2km only! IF you get even close ebfore sparrows and other things eats you, and people like you want it to go even higher in BR...does not compute at all use your brain.

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On 30/12/2020 at 10:02, TGLBlackbeard said:

 

A Weapon System that it was never actually given in its history as an OPERATIONAL weapons platform, it was replaced by the AIM-9L (could be wrong on the variant).

 

If we only had "operational" status weapons platforms, we would have to remove 50% of all aircraft, tanks, shells and weaponry from the game.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Smin1080p said:

 

If we only had "operational" status weapons platforms, we would have to remove 50% of all aircraft, tanks, shells and weaponry from the game.

 

 

That would be beautiful.

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On 30/12/2020 at 03:00, Hanz_Huberman said:

Assuming you haven't used both those missiles or at least not aim 9 Gs coming from a person who has used both I hate aim 9 Gs in my opinion they are absolute garbage with no pull that even a gr1-3 with a 40 second turn time can evade the missile last second. i see myself getting more gun kills than with missiles. the only kills i get with those things are against people who aren't paying attention. and when i use aim 9 Bs i usually get kills with all of em, they can pull some crazy **** when you fire them. if you wanna see for yourself test fly the harrier with the Gs and then test fly the sabre or g91 with Bs and look at the difference in that circle. also flares are a major aspect when it comes to a vehicles br your basically missile proof if you do it right that's why the gr1 gr3 and av8c excel and the av8a isn't 9.7, also if you ever been in a fight or used the harrier you would know that it performs like a bus much like the A7 and gets absolutely eaten up by swifts, hunters, shenyangs, and packs of mig 17s. not to mention how hard it is to dodge an sramm especially when you in one of those.. in conclusion a letter that's later in the abc's doesn't means its better and flares are amazing in the hands of people who aren't spitfire to instantly gr1 players

 

 

I fought against harriers. If you turn, you die. Just look at your back and run away after you spam the sraams.

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Seing what was said i need to add something... Being an harrier GR.3 player i can attest that harriers are by no mean whales in the sky... At least not in the hands of somebody that knows how to use the tools provided to them...

Simply speaking, using thrust vectoring you can reverse anyone by using airbrakes, take off flaps and full thrust downwards (which will give you more turn than anybody granted you don't pull it off too early/late), then yeet an AIM9G up their slow moving bum ( mind you unlike the SRAAM the AIM9G can be fired from even a full VTOL hover and work properly), from this point onward you can choose to manoeuvre with the thrust vectoring, to disengage and get speed again, or hell even go full VTOL and force frontals when facing more than one enemies (i already pulled it off several times, as you are stationnary you can take one enemy in frontal and quickly align for the next one, granted your unatural movement patern whilst drifting in VTOL you can fairly easily win those too)

Learning how to use said thrust vectoring, and the insane acceleration at your disposal will make you borderline immortal in any 1V1 situation, so i'll say yet again, anybody claiming the harrier can't turn quite clearly don't understand that it isn't a conventional fighter and has additionnal tools that are meant to be used, for the very simple reason that most if not all GR1 players had close to no jet battle experience to begin with, and didn't even try to use the main tool of their plane in battle...

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When will the Ju 288c spam be addressed? It makes 5.7-6.3 nearly unplayable because even the Bearcat and other super props can't get to altitude to do anything about them and they wind up ending the game in less than 10 minutes. 

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