The general state of suicide bombing spam and airfields. I think a big update is needed for top tier airfields.

[Ahaha_UwU 0]

I recently graduated into 8.0-10.7 matches with my friend. I was super excited. Then he said, "Welcome to A2D spam and missle-thunder." And I continued to suffer lmao.
 

I quickly learned how cheese and incredibly stupid high tier (usually American) bombing spamming can be. Airfield strafing all game and getting missled from a mile away is whatever, that's part of the territory, but the bombing spam is absurd. This spreads across the BRs but bombing simply takes too many tickets and no cost to the player for suicide. The last, idk, I'd say 7 top tier games my friend and I played we faced practically a full team of enemy bombers. That for 1-2 hours fly in a straight line to an airfield, drop their bombs, and either J out or immediately crash into the ground intentionally.
 

This wouldn't be in issue if the player was punished for this, either by significant SL loss, or the bombing simply not taking an absurd amount of tickets. However that's not the case. It is literally cheaper to bomb and J out or crash, and repeat all game. They run a profit doing this. This happens at lower BRs as well but really gets terrible in top tier (and 6.0+) This was an issue in the past that Gaijin said they "fixed" but it is absolutely not fixed. It's hard to believe it was even worse before. The part that really doesn't make sense to me is that the players can get away with this approaching the air field in a straight line, many times in a under BRed A2D at only 600km/h and they don't even get shot at.
 

I think Gaijin needs to make major changes to airfields in top tier. If they don't want to address suicide bombing and the amount of tickets bombing can do in a match then that's fine. People who don't suicide bomb I have some respect for. But suicide bombing for an hour and a half, while my team wins nearly every objective and we still can barely keep up with the ticket count is disgusting.

I believe Gaijin needs buff the AAA at airfields in top tier. We are flying Vietnam and Korean era jets yet we have dinky old WW2 era AAA. We should be getting something more similar to a CWIS, or at the very least if Gaijin doesn't want to make new models and what not, buff the current AAA to shoot from farther away, engage faster, and actually make Jet bombers have to do high speed jet bombing. An A2D suicide airfield bombing should not be viable 8.0-10.7. If they are approaching in a straight line with no amount of considerable speed, in the era of F4C phantoms, that old prop plane should be lit up and dropped out of the sky by AAA that reflect the tier of the BR.
 

Suicide bombing is a major issue. Honestly strafing should be much harder than it is as well against a realistic airfield, but if you are going over mach then it is at least reasonable to live through it to an extent, however scummy it is. Just curious of anyone agrees with me. I know these changes won't happen. Gaijin has made it abundantly clear they do not care about sim due to how small the player base is. But it's just sad to see.

[Kernow1346 1,344]

2 hours ago, Ahaha_UwU said:

...Airfield strafing all game and getting missled from a mile away is whatever, that's part of the territory

Well, it shouldn’t be, or at least, it shouldn’t be as stupidly easy and risk free.  Airfields certainly were attacked IRL, but IRL they’re also always heavily defended, besides which relentless spawn-killing makes for really awful gameplay in what is supposed to be a game.  Sadly Gaijin always appear reluctant to take any measures against spawn-camping - I think they regard their average player as a total idiot who can’t get kills any other way...

2 hours ago, Ahaha_UwU said:

...but the bombing spam is absurd.

Yea, like I said, a total idiot who can’t manage anything but the simplest of space-bar smashing.

2 hours ago, Ahaha_UwU said:

...That for 1-2 hours fly in a straight line to an airfield, drop their bombs, and either J out or immediately crash into the ground intentionally.  This wouldn't be in issue if the player was punished for this, either by significant SL loss, or the bombing simply not taking an absurd amount of tickets...

And they are rewarded for that... I could say something about “total idiots” and Gaijin’s favoured ones.

2 hours ago, Ahaha_UwU said:

....This was an issue in the past that Gaijin said they "fixed" but it is absolutely not fixed. It's hard to believe it was even worse before.

And yet it was!  Double-tonnage meant double the intended points and rewards for every ton of TNT dropped on an airfield.  Since that was removed it has become possible to beat the zombers by completing the objectives, given roughly equal numbers on both sides.

2 hours ago, Ahaha_UwU said:

... Just curious of anyone agrees with me. I know these changes won't happen.

Yes, pretty much everyone here will agree, both on the issues and the likely lack of action.

 

[DavidDeFrog 5]

"Treat it like a feature rather than a bug."

 

Firstly, congrats on joining EC6!

 

You are correct, zomber spam is still a problem. Some are dedicated, some suicide for spawn points, and I don't really blame them. Since 3 A2D death is still cheaper than 10k SL deposit on a B57B. If US teams are mostly A2D zombers like you said, they will have less fighters in the air, why not get air superiority and camp them to death? IMO, weak  AAA allows AF camping, which is a good way to counter bomber spam. I had a game last Friday where my team of mostly  suicide bombers get camped by a couple F104s from the German team. It was all over in about 30 minutes.

 

Since it is part of the game, live with it, then cherish it. Zombers are easily predictable, they always fly between closest two AF, at low attitude, in mostly defensiveness planes. So why not make them rage quit while racking up high scores? 

 

Your friend is right, top tier EC is basically missile thunder and heavily biased to US now with introduction of AIM 7s. Had a game this Tuesday where my radar picked up a dot, 7 KM away, about 3KM in the air over enemy airspace. Fired AIM 7, 20 sec later, a player in his Mig 21 MF (German) rage quit the match. Once you unlock top tier, AF strafing feels like an dangerous proposition, you can get damaged by AAA or worse crash into the ground. On the other hand, missile lock an aircraft who just took off is guaranteed kill even for AIM 9b.

 

 

 

[Mora__ 14]

I'd treat it like feature too. Now that the base spawn points were taken away I do it a lot for spawn point farming. Even though I usually use the F-89D, I sometimes use the A2D just for fun. But I always do intend to return. The A2D is somewhat vulnerable to AAA and it's not necessarily easy to get home. That's why use a lob bombing technique, in which I approach the runway and pull up sharply and release the bombs at 45 deg angle, actually very easy and fun method to hit the runway. If the terrain surrounding the airfield is lower, it could be done even if the AAA were to be beefed up considerably, as you'd be exposed just a few seconds while completing the Immelmann. Just telling this if someone else would like to try and enjoy it.

[_Thrash_ 788]

On 10/11/2020 at 17:57, Ahaha_UwU said:

recently graduated....

All I can say is: When Gaijin wakes up a little, all these people will be gone like A2D-1 abusers. I actually pity these people because they are missing out the fun part of the game and actually hurting themselves by not improving a single bit. Today I put maybe 250 rounds on a Sunderland to take it down and that player finished off my 109 with a single hit with mouse aim to my engine. Then on cool down timer until his next bomber spawn, that player had to spawn with fighters, I peppered every fighter he had before the CD timer went off and I had no loss neither a single hit on my aircraft. Am I that good? of course not, that person was just relying on the broken mechanics and not improving at all.

People can abuse and grind as much as they want, in the end they will end up with all the money and the aircraft with a pilot that cannot put any of these into a good use.

 

On 10/11/2020 at 21:16, Kernow1346 said:

Airfields certainly were attacked IRL

All these attacks were surprise attacks and they were single strafes/bombings etc. There was a video somewhere that WW2 pilot was talking about their P-47 airfield attack in Germany, he said one pilot turned around for a second go and he never saw home again or take operation focus as example: they are all sneak up, hit and run tactics. Unfortunately in WT it is nothing like this. People just go airfield to airfield, but the sad part is, most of them immediately run away at the moment an opposition shows up. I had to chase an F-4E in Me 163 until I ran out of fuel even then it wouldn't face me. I'm so sorry to say but these tactics are chosen by generally bad players. As I said above these issues will be fixed some day, then they won't have that much fun anymore. Strafing, spawn comping, space bar bashing, mouse aiming....none of these can give the satisfaction of surviving a good fur ball.

 

4 hours ago, Mora__ said:

Even though I usually use the F-89D, I sometimes use the A2D just for fun

Don't forget Ju-288 C

Edited November 13, 2020 by _Thrash_

[FouManchou 1,832]

Easy solution : have one "column" count as off-limits for each team, and put a single large airfield there. Add two smaller airfields in the contested area. Remove airfields as bombing targets.

Tada, EC improved. 

Bonus : everyone can now take off on the runway.

Edited November 13, 2020 by FouManchou

[Twisted 2,931]

I like the 3 airfield solution, but 1 big one with loads of impregnable defenses, and 2 front  line ones with decent defenses. More bomb targets which are more Intresting with varying reward and difficulty, like harbors and railways and factories etc.

 

This would open up much more of the map for game play, instead of  4 entire rows for air fields, it will stop the spawn camping, and the game would become more fun.

 

It should be easy to implement.

[Mora__ 14]

10 hours ago, _Thrash_ said:

All I can say is: When Gaijin wakes up a little, all these people will be gone like A2D-1 abusers. I actually pity these people because they are missing out the fun part of the game and actually hurting themselves by not improving a single bit. Today I put maybe 250 rounds on a Sunderland to take it down and that player finished off my 109 with a single hit with mouse aim to my engine. Then on cool down timer until his next bomber spawn, that player had to spawn with fighters, I peppered every fighter he had before the CD timer went off and I had no loss neither a single hit on my aircraft. Am I that good? of course not, that person was just relying on the broken mechanics and not improving at all.

People can abuse and grind as much as they want, in the end they will end up with all the money and the aircraft with a pilot that cannot put any of these into a good use.

 

All these attacks were surprise attacks and they were single strafes/bombings etc. There was a video somewhere that WW2 pilot was talking about their P-47 airfield attack in Germany, he said one pilot turned around for a second go and he never saw home again or take operation focus as example: they are all sneak up, hit and run tactics. Unfortunately in WT it is nothing like this. People just go airfield to airfield, but the sad part is, most of them immediately run away at the moment an opposition shows up. I had to chase an F-4E in Me 163 until I ran out of fuel even then it wouldn't face me. I'm so sorry to say but these tactics are chosen by generally bad players. As I said above these issues will be fixed some day, then they won't have that much fun anymore. Strafing, spawn comping, space bar bashing, mouse aiming....none of these can give the satisfaction of surviving a good fur ball.

 

Don't forget Ju-288 C

I build cockpits I'm the real deal. Seen so many times. Anyway I wouldn't rely on anything being "fixed" or them "waking up". Actually better not to ask anything as we've seen lately.

Edited November 14, 2020 by Mora__

[_Thrash_ 788]

5 hours ago, Mora__ said:

I build cockpits I'm the real deal.

wth does that mean?

[[email protected] 616]

On 12/11/2020 at 12:51, DavidDeFrog said:

"Treat it like a feature rather than a bug."

 

Firstly, congrats on joining EC6!

 

You are correct, zomber spam is still a problem. Some are dedicated, some suicide for spawn points, and I don't really blame them. Since 3 A2D death is still cheaper than 10k SL deposit on a B57B. If US teams are mostly A2D zombers like you said, they will have less fighters in the air, why not get air superiority and camp them to death? IMO, weak  AAA allows AF camping, which is a good way to counter bomber spam. I had a game last Friday where my team of mostly  suicide bombers get camped by a couple F104s from the German team. It was all over in about 30 minutes.

 

Since it is part of the game, live with it, then cherish it. Zombers are easily predictable, they always fly between closest two AF, at low attitude, in mostly defensiveness planes. So why not make them rage quit while racking up high scores? 

 

Your friend is right, top tier EC is basically missile thunder and heavily biased to US now with introduction of AIM 7s. Had a game this Tuesday where my radar picked up a dot, 7 KM away, about 3KM in the air over enemy airspace. Fired AIM 7, 20 sec later, a player in his Mig 21 MF (German) rage quit the match. Once you unlock top tier, AF strafing feels like an dangerous proposition, you can get damaged by AAA or worse crash into the ground. On the other hand, missile lock an aircraft who just took off is guaranteed kill even for AIM 9b.

 

 

 

Well, here is the thing, you dont really have air superiority unless its at the very beginning. 

 

A2ds will suicide into nearest aircraft, then they will get into a F4 phantom and proceed to **** everyone. I mean, they get 8 missiles. So they strafe everyone, or they put on rockets and do that instead. "Air superiority" belongs to whoever gets missles first, after that, youre better of quiting the match. 

 

The problem with the A2d players, they are abusing EC because rewards are too low in RB, which is a direct consequence of the games core mechanic which is the grind. 

 

Its Gaijins fault in the end, because they are to busy introducing new stuff rather than fixing their game and making it playable for everyone. 

[przybysz86 8,401]

On 13/11/2020 at 19:05, Mora__ said:

I'd treat it like feature too. Now that the base spawn points were taken away I do it a lot for spawn point farming.

and once you get your SP then what?
Once yoyu grind all you want, farm all the SL and get all the SP in the world then what? you are still stuck with full teams of zombers.
You farm them to get your Phantom/Draken/Mig-21 to be most competitive against enemy Mig-21/Draken/Phantom, only to realise that there are none or that the game ends 15mins after you get enough SP becuase zombers just steam-roll their way through the 150k point task.

It's not just EC6 - it was (and to some extent still is) the same on earlier tiers. EC4 is full of 264 zombering, EC3 have B-25s, Yer-2s, Fw-200s, etc, EC5 have B17Gs.


I've heard "yes but it's good for farming" argument a lot in the past. Problem is that it's an illusionary feature. You deliberately are happy that game is totally destroyed because you gain very much temporary boost.

Edited November 14, 2020 by przybysz86

[nazradu2 2,980]

I'm so mad! Just had a game where I completed nearly every task, two guys where killing like 40 ground targets, but one Me264 guy was collecting victory points like crazy. WTF? No chance to keep up with this sucker by playing objectives. I would not care If I would not have to grind.

[Kernow1346 1,344]

Update today - “New Tracks” - I expect this update addresses the airfield defence issue.  Hooray!  Almost got it downloaded; can’t wait...

[nazradu2 2,980]

1 hour ago, Kernow1346 said:

Update today - “New Tracks” - I expect this update addresses the airfield defence issue.  Hooray!  Almost got it downloaded; can’t wait...

You mean at top tier? I have not seen this in the patch notes.

Edited December 18, 2020 by nazradu2

[Kernow1346 1,344]

Imagine how surprised I am to see no change... stunned.