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Vickers VFM Mk.5


1 minute ago, Taeblamees said:

Then again, it does have additional high hardness steel plates at the front.

High hardness makes hull break worse in reality. You want malleable steel that bends preventing the metal from shattering on impact with a shell. Aluminum doesn't shatter, but usually bends with a high KE impulse. It would be like shooting a bullet through paper. With harder metal, it would just shatter.

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5 minutes ago, omnipotank said:

It would be fine if APFSDS didn't magically hullbreak things by hitting nothing. I would love a chemical round only hull break in game unless it has high hardness steel. Also, I am mainly concerned about the turret. If it is like the centauro, then you can get hit in your coax machine gun or radio and just die from APFSDS. This makes using a light vehicle hull-down the most annoying thing ever when just one crew member dies yet your entire vehicle is dead due to magical buggy coding. 

 

I'd like that

I wouldn't mind APFSDS Hull Breaks too much if it hit critical components

4 minutes ago, Taeblamees said:

Then again, it does have additional high hardness steel plates at the front.

 

and this is what 300mm of composite armour does for the Type 16:

qQDglwU.png

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3 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

and this is what 300mm of composite armour does for the Type 16:

qQDglwU.png

They did remove hullbreak from Radkampfwagen's turret because of it's armour, tho, but I agree, hullbreak is a fickle thing and we shouldn't speculate before actually seeing it in action.

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I would love to get excited about a new high tier LT, but my recent experience playing anything above 8.3 has been rather depressing.

 

Off-Topic

IMO, considering that I only play Britain nowadays, I can't think of a single played BR bracket in Ground RB where the British players have an effective line-up.

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24 minutes ago, Taeblamees said:

They did remove hullbreak from Radkampfwagen's turret because of it's armour, tho, but I agree, hullbreak is a fickle thing and we shouldn't speculate before actually seeing it in action.

 

true

though I personally don't ever remember hull breaking that thing

10 minutes ago, KryoK said:

I would love to get excited about a new high tier LT, but my recent experience playing anything above 8.3 has been rather depressing.

 

Off-Topic

IMO, considering that I only play Britain nowadays, I can't think of a single played BR bracket in Ground RB where the British players have an effective line-up.

 

1.0-3.7, 4.7, 5.3-5.7, 6.7, 8.3, 9.7, 10.7 would be alright but the SAM is poop

depending on where the VFM goes it will buff whats around it

Edited by [email protected]
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48 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

 

I'd like that

I wouldn't mind APFSDS Hull Breaks too much if it hit critical components

 

and this is what 300mm of composite armour does for the Type 16:

qQDglwU.png

And this is why hull break needs removed until they fix it. The coding as degraded and become more RNG based than actually logical.

Here is my personal favorite:

1822794114_Screenshot(36).thumb.png.8307

Edited by omnipotank
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1 minute ago, [email protected] said:

1.0-3.7, 4.7, 5.3-5.7, 6.7, 8.3, 9.7

 

1.0-2.3

Fun yes but can't be used to complete tasks or be played during events

2.7 and 3.0

Slow with heavy armor, unfortunately not meta. Swedes brought apds to low tier (despite Britain being denied it repeatedly) and Pz.IV F2. 

3.0-4.0

Playable but nearly always fights at 4.0. Constant spam of R3's and KV-1B's

4.7-5.7

Nearly always fights at 5.3-5.7 due to axis line-ups. Forced to run only apds as 17 pounder gun starting to underperform. Very poor SPAA and at the start of Axis dominance of the sky.

5.7-6.7

The last good BR despite the overwhelming axis air power (262's etc) and NO effective SPAA counter. Then their is also the RU 251 spam.

Won't mater anyway, 6.7 will be gone after BR update.

7.0-7.7

Overpriced and below average. A lot of camping in one spot hoping some will drive past. Since volumetric shells introduced I don't trust the guns against Russian armor. Silver lining is the Falcon.

7.7.8.3

Slow, ineffective armor and no thermals for MBT's. Playing in a BR full of thermals and ATGM's. Russian troll armor and the G.91.

8.7-9.0

Not a line-up unless you own the Rooikat 105. (VFM5 here?)

9.7-10.7

Fights almost constantly at 10.7. Slow, ineffective armor, lack of commander thermals and helis (Ka-50's etc) out-range the only missile armed SPAA. Has destroyed my win rate (not that I care after all these years), again since the introduction of volumetric shells.

 

As I said I may be bias due to only playing Britain, but that's how I see it. 

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I don't play high tiers so won't end up playing this but it seems like a neat vehicle. Something mobile for Britain.

It looks very small, like, Warrior levels of small. The 105 looks huge on it.

What does worry me though is.... hull break, hopefully it doesn't have it. Otherwise it's pretty much DOA.

6 hours ago, KryoK said:

 

1.0-2.3

Fun yes but can't be used to complete tasks or be played during events

2.7 and 3.0

Slow with heavy armor, unfortunately not meta. Swedes brought apds to low tier (despite Britain being denied it repeatedly) and Pz.IV F2. 

3.0-4.0

Playable but nearly always fights at 4.0. Constant spam of R3's and KV-1B's

4.7-5.7

Nearly always fights at 5.3-5.7 due to axis line-ups. Forced to run only apds as 17 pounder gun starting to underperform. Very poor SPAA and at the start of Axis dominance of the sky.

5.7-6.7

The last good BR despite the overwhelming axis air power (262's etc) and NO effective SPAA counter. Then their is also the RU 251 spam.

Won't mater anyway, 6.7 will be gone after BR update.

7.0-7.7

Overpriced and below average. A lot of camping in one spot hoping some will drive past. Since volumetric shells introduced I don't trust the guns against Russian armor. Silver lining is the Falcon.

7.7.8.3

Slow, ineffective armor and no thermals for MBT's. Playing in a BR full of thermals and ATGM's. Russian troll armor and the G.91.

8.7-9.0

Not a line-up unless you own the Rooikat 105. (VFM5 here?)

9.7-10.7

Fights almost constantly at 10.7. Slow, ineffective armor, lack of commander thermals and helis (Ka-50's etc) out-range the only missile armed SPAA. Has destroyed my win rate (not that I care after all these years), again since the introduction of volumetric shells.

 

As I said I may be bias due to only playing Britain, but that's how I see it. 


Britain doesn't really have any really good BR's.

Lower tiers you end up with slow tanks and not much firepower.
Mid tier can be alright except from the Tiger and Panther spam at 5.3 that just stomps almost every match.
6.7 is probably your best bet (soon not to be) with the caernarvon, cent 3, fv4202. But as you've said, axis air power still gets the advantage there.
7.7 used to be alright but the Cent 10 and Vickers MBT are pretty crap with the nerfed L7 and constant up-tiers.
Andthing higher than that is just a mess, Chieftain, challenger all slow and lacking the same armour that enemies get.

I think after the upcoming BR changes the best line-up for Britain is going to be 6.7 with the Fv4202 and Attacker FB.1. That's it.
Can't take the Griffon spitfires into GFRB because they're too expensive, no more useful 6.7 vehicles.
Tortoise is slow and easy to kill.
Fv4005 now has hullbreak.

I'm not going to bother with the Caernarvon and Cent.3 at 7.0. They're just going to get stomped every match. They might be worth it if they got actual penetration figures for the 20 pdr but as it stands they're going to be slow with ineffective guns and high repair costs.

What Gaijin doesn't seem to understand is that the Caern and Cent.3 were the only things really keeping 6.7 Germany in check.
Wait and see, 6.7 German winrates are going to skyrocket when Britains main counter goes to 7.0.

Edited by Oscar_Muffin
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8 hours ago, KryoK said:

2.7 and 3.0

Slow with heavy armor, unfortunately not meta. Swedes brought apds to low tier (despite Britain being denied it repeatedly) and Pz.IV F2. 

I find the Churchill Mk.1 pretty enjoyable, load the 76mm gun with smoke and use it to escape those big guns. 2pdr is enough to kill most from the sides. It is also actually faster than other British tanks.

 

8 hours ago, KryoK said:

3.0-4.0

Playable but nearly always fights at 4.0. Constant spam of R3's and KV-1B's

I find this the best BR for now (except 6.7 but I can't afford repair).

The Cromwells are extremely fast with punchy guns, and you have Sherman for more defensive roles.

CAS is great with the premium Hellcat and naval fighter-strikers. Even just strafing can kill a number of vehicles here.

 

8 hours ago, KryoK said:

4.7-5.7

Nearly always fights at 5.3-5.7 due to axis line-ups. Forced to run only apds as 17 pounder gun starting to underperform. Very poor SPAA and at the start of Axis dominance of the sky.

The 5.3 isn't bad at all, Comet and AC IV are very effective if used properly. You just need to stop engaging Panthers frontally and memorize the ammo racks. CAS planes like Wyvern and Sea Fury are excellent, little can catch you.

 

8 hours ago, KryoK said:

5.7-6.7

The last good BR despite the overwhelming axis air power (262's etc) and NO effective SPAA counter. Then their is also the RU 251 spam.

Won't mater anyway, 6.7 will be gone after BR update.

Due to Gaijin's modeling, the Caer has far more armor than the Cent 3 despite having same turret.

It can bounce long 88 quite reliably so snipe with it. The Ru 251 is one-click even with APDS. The Swedish HEAT shooter is more of a trouble.

 

8 hours ago, KryoK said:

7.0-7.7

Overpriced and below average. A lot of camping in one spot hoping some will drive past. Since volumetric shells introduced I don't trust the guns against Russian armor. Silver lining is the Falcon.

I think only Falcon, Conway (hidden gem) and Centurion AVRE (if a urban map) are useful there. I don't run 7.7.

Just get enough to spawn Vampire and clean up the sky. It out-turns everything.

 

8 hours ago, KryoK said:

7.7.8.3

Slow, ineffective armor and no thermals for MBT's. Playing in a BR full of thermals and ATGM's. Russian troll armor and the G.91.

8.7-9.0

Not a line-up unless you own the Rooikat 105. (VFM5 here?)

Tried to like them but gave up. Pretty much unplayable when your Chieftain APDS is nerfed to bounce from slightly angled T-55AM. They can just spam missile to destroy your gun and then kill you.

 

Rooikat 105 always get uptier and is only fast on good, flat road. The Rad 90 is so much faster for some reason.

 

8 hours ago, KryoK said:

9.7-10.7

Fights almost constantly at 10.7. Slow, ineffective armor, lack of commander thermals and helis (Ka-50's etc) out-range the only missile armed SPAA. Has destroyed my win rate (not that I care after all these years), again since the introduction of volumetric shells.

Only full 10.7 is worth a play.

Chally 2F can bounce some if you hulldown, but then many 1200mm pen missiles and well-aimed APFSDS can still kill you through mantlet (largest in top tier).

 

The only point to play are Apache and Phantom.

I enjoy CCIP bombing tanks and with flares series on enemy will have hard time hitting you. The OTO is the only one unaffected.

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7 minutes ago, TerikG2014 said:

.....

So just come across this it lists L64A4 and A unknown HG/62 shells for UK 105mm APFSDS ammo.

 

There was a H6/62 - Tungsten, 1490m/s - eg https://www.militariacollectors.network/forums/topic/1116-105mm-apfsds-h662/

 

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Edited by Josephs_Piano
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13 hours ago, omnipotank said:

High hardness makes hull break worse in reality. You want malleable steel that bends preventing the metal from shattering on impact with a shell. Aluminum doesn't shatter, but usually bends with a high KE impulse. It would be like shooting a bullet through paper. With harder metal, it would just shatter.

 

Depends - high hardness on front and malleable behind has some great properties that have been well known for a century or more - hence "face hardened" and "cemented" armours.

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8 hours ago, Josephs_Piano said:

 

Depends - high hardness on front and malleable behind has some great properties that have been well known for a century or more - hence "face hardened" and "cemented" armours.

Ah, you do have a point there. A lot of light vehicles in game currently use high hardness without any plate behind it.

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8 hours ago, omnipotank said:

You should ask the guy for measurements of the shell to determine penetration ussing the equation for a potential future bug report.

I've run some numbers based on pixel counting in order to fill in the missing values and if got some serious wacky values  i think I've forgotten to do somethingdsBuffer_bmp.png.8b99a86981f33d04eda8ad3

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2 minutes ago, TerikG2014 said:

I've run some numbers based on pixel counting in order to fill in the missing values and if got some serious wacky values  i think I've forgotten to do somethingdsBuffer_bmp.png.8b99a86981f33d04eda8ad3

Its because your shell is impacting at 1490km/s. Remember to get your units right :lol2:

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2 minutes ago, UKoctane said:

Its because your shell is impacting at 1490km/s. Remember to get your units right :lol2:

That'd do it!

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4 minutes ago, TerikG2014 said:

dsBuffer_bmp.png.8b99a86981f33d04eda8ad3

 Total length of penetrator. Are you sure it is 900mm, is that not the total length of the shell + dart.

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1 minute ago, KryoK said:

 Total length of penetrator. Are you sure it is 900mm, is that not the total length of the shell + dart.

aah no its not that'd also do it thanks guys

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So now I'm not brain farting this is what I have for H6/62 which is far more reasonable,

 

www.longrods.ch_perfcalc.php - Google Chrome 22_10_2020 14_50_21.png

Edited by TerikG2014

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18 minutes ago, TerikG2014 said:

So now I'm not brain farting this is what I have for H6/62 which is far more reasonable,

 

www.longrods.ch_perfcalc.php - Google Chrome 22_10_2020 14_50_21.png

You want to use a brinell hardness of 260 as that's the nato standard. I would also use a frustrum value of 0 for length and diameter of 25mm for frustrum. We don't know if it has one and having one negatively impacts performance. Your density is also to low should be between 17600 and 18100

Edited by [email protected]
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