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New Player, Worried about long term game prospects


#1 Buying Upgrades and #2 Unlocking new options are what make games interesting when the initial novelty of  things like "simulation combat" runs out.

Using nearly the same Upgrades on every vehicle makes things boring. Youre not really Upgrading, you are resetting things on each vehicle.
New Options by definition are not new if they the same as before, such as the numerous 37mm cannons.
Copy and Pasted, over and over.

I really dont get the point of War Thunder even having vehicles upgrades if they are just copied over and over. If its not truly better youre just expending effort for nothing.
==========================================
Grinding is supposed to be about rewards allowing you to replace obsolete equipment. It done right "Grinding" can actually be fun, like when you use strong equipment against now-weak enemies you used to have trouble with.

Will I ever get to roleplay a Panzer 6 Tiger and kill M4 Shermans and/or T-34s en masse like the real Tank Aces?
=========================================
Ive taken notes about my average research points gained to determine how many battles it would take to get through each vehicle tier, and Its a LOT. It would take 100-150 battles for each nation to get to tier 3, now repeat 8 more times. I think thats when Reserve Vehicles would take a penalty to Research, so now its estimated to be 500-750 battles to get to tier 4, and so on.

Im still hoping that I will get find vehicles that CANNOT be killed so quickly so it may actually be fun to drive the. Each tier I would like to get more durable.

The real game goal is to get to the modern vehicles. Not many games allow you to drive things like the M551 Sheridan and fire off a Shillelagh missile. Most games with tanks dont even acknowledge that missiles exist.

How many years will that take to reach the modern equipment?

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5 hours ago, chaosticket said:

 

Grinding is supposed to be about rewards allowing you to replace obsolete equipment. It done right "Grinding" can actually be fun, like when you use strong equipment against now-weak enemies you used to have trouble with.

Will I ever get to roleplay a Panzer 6 Tiger and kill M4 Shermans and/or T-34s en masse like the real Tank Aces?
=========================================
Ive taken notes about my average research points gained to determine how many battles it would take to get through each vehicle tier, and Its a LOT. It would take 100-150 battles for each nation to get to tier 3, now repeat 8 more times. I think thats when Reserve Vehicles would take a penalty to Research, so now its estimated to be 500-750 battles to get to tier 4, and so on.

Im still hoping that I will get find vehicles that CANNOT be killed so quickly so it may actually be fun to drive the. Each tier I would like to get more durable.

The real game goal is to get to the modern vehicles. Not many games allow you to drive things like the M551 Sheridan and fire off a Shillelagh missile. Most games with tanks dont even acknowledge that missiles exist.

How many years will that take to reach the modern equipment?

 

The game is "balanced" they way it is because of Gaijin's business model of making money from players frustrated with grinding. If game modes were historically realistic (hundreds of players, continental maps, multi-day campaigns, sector-based tactical objectives, defined roles, command structure, coordination via live voicechat, teamwide resource management, logistics gameplay, support troops, etc) requiring players to use vehicles that were actually used for that specific battle in history would make sense.

 

But since the game is NOT built that way and instead sticks to 10-20 minute death matches with capture zones, the only way to prevent excessive clubbing is to match players with vehicles at a certain Battle Rating (BR) with other players at a similar Battle Rating. Unless you or an opponent brings a low-tier "technically inferior" vehicle into a match, vehicles of the same BR will not be clubbed easily if used correctly/effectively. 

 

This does make it harder to club enemy tanks, but not impossible. One-shotting people WILL get easier as you become more familiar and build-up a muscle memory of what weakspots are different vehicles have, which vehicles have thinner armor at a certain BR, what parts of each map is ideal for hiding or surprising opponents, and what kind of vehicle (in your case -- tank classes) and type of ammo to use in certain situations. In other words, taking into account strengths & weaknesses and using as many of the factors above to your advantage. This applies to aircraft and naval vessels as well.

 

For example, German medium & heavy tanks in Tiers 4 (Panthers and Tigers) are known for having great gun depression (lowest angle a gun can be pointed) and high armor thickness so hiding "hull down" behind a hill at a distance or pivoting your tank at a 30-40 degree angle when facing opponents head on will greatly increase your chance of survival and will likely grant you multiple chances to take shots at the enemy,

 

Other great examples are the BR 5.3 American M4A3E2 Sherman Jumbo (75mm version) and the BR 5.7 M18 Hellcat in Tier 3. The "Jumbo" is similar to Tier 4 German tanks in that it has great armor and good gun depression which makes it very hard for other tanks at that same battle rating to penetrate it when faced head-on ~ especially if you're partially angled behind a hill. The "Hellcat" on the other hand is small, super fast, and has a gun that can penetrate almost anything head-on at it's BR. The fact that it is practically a light tank with an overpowered gun is why you'll find teammates, opponents, and maybe even yourself using this often up to or even past BR 7.0

 

Specialized tanks like non-turreted tank destroyers, SPGs, and SPAAs in general have weaker armor and are best against what they're designed for -- respectively one-shotting any tank and shredding aircraft/light tanks/other SPAAs. The advantages they have are that they cost less spawn points in Realistic Battles (RB), are great to use if you like to camp or snipe, and use as a support vehicle to kill aircraft & lighter enemies while the rest of the team focuses on cap points and heavier threats.

 

Finally, I have never been able to own a Tier 6 or Tier 7 vehicle even after nearly 3,000 hours of gameplay over 5 years. I might have been able to grind out and own some top-tier tanks without paying a dime had I focused all that effort on a single national tree, but I got extremely disappointed when I realized it would take AT LEAST 200 MATCHES to unlock any vehicle at Tier 6 and Tier 7. I ended up toning down my expectations of owning every vehicle in the game and settled on grinding out everything up to Tier 5 in the US, USSR, and German trees. I finished right before Gaijin added choppers and ships. Fortunately the Japanese, French, Chinese, and Italian trees are relatively small so I might grind those nations out to Tier 5 as well.

 

Nowadays I only play a fraction as much as I used to, but my plan is to enjoy what I can afford (in time, money, AND energy) and not be dead-set on "beating" or "owning" the entire game.

 

Hopefully, a shift in the market at some point will force Gaijin to adapt War Thunder or release a new game altogether that replaces grinding-out content in exhaustively repetitive matches with gameplay that is more dynamic and diverse as well as consistently new and exciting.

 

Cuz they certainly don't seem keen on giving-up their Free-2-Play Grindfest and replacing or evolving it into what the playerbase really wants.

 

Hope that helps! :salute:

Edited by Results45
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On 27/10/2020 at 06:21, chaosticket said:

I hope there are more events for half-price sales for vehicles and bonus research points.

Still on the Long Term plan. Grind using Reserve Vehicles.

Suggestion: Gaijin. Give each faction a 3rd Reserve Vehicle.

Also, why would I ever like dying in a game?

 

Why are you grinding using only reserve vehicles? That's a huge penalty to your research efficiency. If you take a look at the bottom of vehicles/ stat cards, there's something called reward multipliers that are marked in percentages. For example, the German reserve tank Pz. III B has a RP multiplier of 100% and a SL multiplier of 10% in AB. By comparison, the rank 2 Pz.III J1 has a RP multiplier of 112% and a SL multiplier of 30 % in AB.

 

If you don't like dying in a game, why do you even play any sort of MMO combat game? Nobody likes dying, but if you don't die, so won't the enemy. The goal is to outplay the enemy and make them die more than you. As always, youtube tutorial videos are of great help.

 

On 27/10/2020 at 17:43, [email protected] said:

Bad news here...they do it twice a year...October and Christmas...they did it on summer ONCE...but then stopped...

 

Grind is more effective with medium ranks...3,7 to 5.7 or so...at reserves it is slower...much slower

 

Nobody likes dying...but if killing you is hard, then it will be hard for you to get kills...

WT requires experience...but (any game) should be fun...

 

This^^^^

 

On 28/10/2020 at 08:38, chaosticket said:

#1 Buying Upgrades and #2 Unlocking new options are what make games interesting when the initial novelty of  things like "simulation combat" runs out.

Using nearly the same Upgrades on every vehicle makes things boring. Youre not really Upgrading, you are resetting things on each vehicle.
New Options by definition are not new if they the same as before, such as the numerous 37mm cannons.
Copy and Pasted, over and over.

I really dont get the point of War Thunder even having vehicles upgrades if they are just copied over and over. If its not truly better youre just expending effort for nothing.
==========================================

 

The purpose of module research in War Thunder is not to unlock better modules(except in the case of weapons and ammunition), but to get your vehicle to its fullest capabilities, or "spaded" in War Thunder terms. So essentially, you are not "upgrading" a vehicle. Rather you are "restoring" a "downgraded" vehicle back to its "normal" configuration. This is why you have the same engine upgrades and gun upgrades on all vehicles. Since the vehicles are balanced based on their spaded state, they can feel a bit underwhelming before you spade them. This is a universally hated issue that is there purely to frustrate people into paying for modules. But this only becomes serious at rank 5 and up(which is one of the reasons why modern vehicles aren't exactly fun).

 

Having the same guns actually is a benefit in some ways. Once you learn the characteristics of a particular gun, you can apply that knowledge to multiple vehicles. As I've said multiple times, learning is a big aspect of War Thunder. Modules aren't unique, but the vehicles themselves are. Besides, module research and vehicle research are separated, so you're not wasting your efforts for nothing. Every action in battle gives you rewards for both module research and vehicle research separately.

 

On 28/10/2020 at 08:38, chaosticket said:

Grinding is supposed to be about rewards allowing you to replace obsolete equipment. It done right "Grinding" can actually be fun, like when you use strong equipment against now-weak enemies you used to have trouble with.

 

This is logically impossible in a balanced game. If you use stronger equipment, it's only fair that the enemy gets more or less the same level of equipment. Otherwise, it won't be a balanced game.

 

On 28/10/2020 at 08:38, chaosticket said:

Will I ever get to roleplay a Panzer 6 Tiger and kill M4 Shermans and/or T-34s en masse like the real Tank Aces?

 

This is a very common myth. You'll be very surprised to find that the Tiger is actually very vulnerable to the guns you'll meet at its battle rating such as 76mm Shermans and T-34-85s. This was also true in real life as the 76mm Shermans, the Sherman Firefly, and the T-34-85 were actually quite capable of penetrating the Tiger frontally from a respectable distance. But the Tiger has one trick up its sleeve and that is armor angling. The Tiger is very boxy and as such is very well suited to angling which can make your armor quite effective. But angling at the right moment takes a bit of skill. You should watch some youtube videos to learn how to effectively angle your tank.

 

Michael Wittmann himself was killed by a Sherman Firefly that blew up his ammo rack. He charged into an open field and exposed himself, while the Firefly was carefully positioned in cover. The Firefly then proceeded to destroy the other 2 Tigers beside Wittman's. He seems to have thought that the Tiger was invincible, just like you. He paid the price. The same thing will happen to you if you're not careful.

 

Being a tank ace isn't about having the best tank, but having the best skills(such as angling), both in real life and in War Thunder. 

 

On 28/10/2020 at 08:38, chaosticket said:

Im still hoping that I will get find vehicles that CANNOT be killed so quickly so it may actually be fun to drive the. Each tier I would like to get more durable.

 

Better and higher tier vehicles don't always mean better armor. For example, the M551 Sheridan that you mentioned can be easily destroyed by even reserve vehicles if you get outplayed. On youtube, you can find meme videos of people bringing tanks like the BT-7 and M22 to top tier battles and have a hell of a fun time running around and destroying things like Sheridans and BMPs.

 

Again, the game is supposed to be balanced, so if you have very thick armor, you'll have a bad gun and/or bad mobility. If you have good guns and good armor, you'll have a higher battle rating so you'll be facing tanks that can fight you on even terms. You can sealclub using skill, but it's impossible to sealclub using a substantially better vehicle.

 

That being said, you could try using the French B1 bis. It is notorious for having very thick armor and lots of crew for its BR and has a somewhat usable gun. It's also quite spacious making it difficult to take out in a single shot. But again, some vehicles can destroy you easily. Some tank destroyers will have powerful guns(at the cost of armor) that can destroy the B1 bis with a single shot. Some skilled players will shoot your weak spots such as the turret ring and hull gun mount and negate the large crew count by shooting your ammo racks.

 

On 28/10/2020 at 08:38, chaosticket said:

The real game goal is to get to the modern vehicles. Not many games allow you to drive things like the M551 Sheridan and fire off a Shillelagh missile. Most games with tanks dont even acknowledge that missiles exist.

How many years will that take to reach the modern equipment?

 

We've told you over and over that if your only goal is to get to modern vehicles quickly, this is not the game for you. Consider playing something like Armored Warfare, which has an WoT like upgrade system that you seem to love so much, and starts from tanks that are rank 5 in War Thunder(and yes you can drive a Sheridan and fire Shillelagh missiles in that game). 

Edited by kkang2828
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Getting silver lions is not the problem if you do it smart, NEVER EVER do auto repair!!! That is rule number one to hundert, then as you have 9 different nations and you are as you say a casual player you can choose 2 or 3 nations to be your main and the rest to support these. What do I mean by that, simple you play your 3 nations and if your having a crap day and the RNG is screwing you each and every way just hop on to the other nations, play them and let them repair themselves so all the SL you make from them goes into your pot for the big 2 or 3. My way is that if I win a game with a nation that covers the cost of the repairs and leaves a few 1000 over I play that nation till I would make a loss, then I switch to another nation, repeat and rinse, that way get over 20 games in a day would be no problem and for a casual player that is alot of games.

 

Also this way you get the know the pros and cons of the "enemy" tanks better. I made over 32 million SL iver the past 6 months without a premium account this way, and that is including buying all the upgrades for the tanks, and I must admit that I do not buy BR9 upwards unless we have an event where the prices for them go down. The 35 million also include that EACH and every tank that I have has been upgraded to expert.

So if you do it smart you will get there and have fun doing it, but there will be days where the crap hits the fan hard, on those days just leave and play something else, just my 2 cents,

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The benefits of Reserve Vehicles are what I want all my vehicles to have.

 

SUGGESTION: When all upgrades on a vehicle are Researched upgrade the vehicle to a Reserve Vehicle.

 

I didn't expect this event but I am trying to use it for all its worth.

 

Rank 1 Reserve Vehicles are great for this event. I got lucky with acquiring several Talismans on them so I actually through a Rank 2 ground tree.

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1 hour ago, chaosticket said:

The benefits of Reserve Vehicles are what I want all my vehicles to have.

 

SUGGESTION: When all upgrades on a vehicle are Researched upgrade the vehicle to a Reserve Vehicle.

 

I didn't expect this event but I am trying to use it for all its worth.

 

Rank 1 Reserve Vehicles are great for this event. I got lucky with acquiring several Talismans on them so I actually through a Rank 2 ground tree.

 

What benefits are you talking about? Do you even understand what a reserve vehicle is? Using reserve vehicles only, even with talismans, severely hampers your research efficiency, especially as you go up to rank 3+. And there is a dedicated section for suggestions here on the forums you know.

Edited by kkang2828
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Research looks like this: 

Except premiums, wich will research every vehicle below their rank at 100%, the one above at 100% and then the penalties in the table apply. If you have premium account you should be at rank 3 in one afternoon, when you get a -60 penaltie when you want to research them with your reserve vehicles. After a week of casual gameplay (like 4 hrs a day) you should be at this point with every nation. Then every reserve or any other rank 1 verhicle become useless for further researching. So if you want to blast through a tree, buy yourself a Rank 6 premium, a ton of backups and get premium account, then you will plow through your premium's nations tree in no time. It actually becomes fun.

 

From the Wiki: Researching high-ranked vehicles while using low-ranked vehicles in battles, and vice versa, will lead to a penalty which is applied to the RP obtained from those battles (see Rank difference research penalties table). High ranked premium vehicles are excluded in that they do not have any research penalty when used to research low-ranked vehicles.

Rank difference research penalties
Rank difference Research of high-ranked vehicles while using low-ranked vehicles Research of low-ranked vehicles while using high-ranked vehicles
0 N/A N/A
1 N/A -10%
2 -60% -70%
3 -70% -90%
4 -80% -95%
5 -80% -95%
6 -80% -95%
Edited by Speggn
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I really don't understand what you want.
Of course it's a grind game, it's free. Oddly enough the people at Gaijin have to keep the lights on and feed their kids. So you have to pay to speed up the grind, sure, but you also have the amazing ability to play for absolutely free with around a thousand vehicles? That's the best deal you can get and you don't have dumb hit sponges like In That Other Game™ where a four tonne scooter can have almost as many hit points as a heavy brawler. Yes, I've played it extensively.
Listen, don't listen to a lot of the whining you hear here. Sure, there's things that might be better but this whole thing can be played for ever absolutely free. All those people are doing that work for you and you don't have to give them anything. Let's get real, the free guys are here to give the premium guys someone to play with. It's still an awesome deal.
I'm wondering exactly what you want for free. An easy grind, free access to premiums and zooming up to top tiers? No, it's not going to happen and the game would be bankrupt in an hour if they tried it.

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11 hours ago, DeadlyTreadly said:

I'm wondering exactly what you want for free. An easy grind, free access to premiums and zooming up to top tiers?

 

Don't tell this to anybody, but actually: all this is free. Just don't subscribe to the console gods.

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On 29/10/2020 at 01:32, kkang2828 said:

 

Well That event hit at a great time. It kept me occupied. I played a lot of games, researched vehicles, unlocked new tiers. Im looking forward to hopefully a Thanksgiving/Christmas/New Years events too.

But it didnt really fix the problems. I have a lot of new vehicles GREAT, but I wont actually use them because they #1 the crew training tax, #2 the repair tax after 10 battles, #3 upgrade taxes.

You guys have told me any game goals are effectively impossible so long as this game has intentional flaws/features to make it a for-profit using player-exploitation.
I dont know what to really do without achievable goals. I need another event for direction. I guess just grind more and hope to get Talismans for Reserve Vehicles.

 

Edited by chaosticket

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On 03/11/2020 at 03:53, chaosticket said:

Well That event hit at a great time. It kept me occupied. I played a lot of games, researched vehicles, unlocked new tiers. Im looking forward to hopefully a Thanksgiving/Christmas/New Years events too.

But it didnt really fix the problems. I have a lot of new vehicles GREAT, but I wont actually use them because they #1 the crew training tax, #2 the repair tax after 10 battles, #3 upgrade taxes.

You guys have told me any game goals are effectively impossible so long as this game has intentional flaws/features to make it a for-profit using player-exploitation.
I dont know what to really do without achievable goals. I need another event for direction. I guess just grind more and hope to get Talismans for Reserve Vehicles.

 

 

There are no Thanksgiving events and Christmas and New Years events are tied together, unfortunately.

 

Could you tell us just how much SL you have right now? Could you show us some of your post battle battle results? There's absolutely zero reason for you to be having SL problems with rank 1 vehicles unless you're doing something very wrong. What exactly are you using so much SL for? I mean, reserves don't even have repair costs. Also could you show us how far down the tech trees you are right now? We could recommend some fun vehicles that will definitely be worth spending some SL on.

 

The only game goals you wanted were grinding unhistorical upgrades and getting to top tier ASAP. Of course we told you they were practically impossible. But they're not the only game goals for WT. You can have fun playing early and mid tier vehicles and improving your skills to become a better player. Or you could get some friends and have fun playing as a squad or playing some stress-free custom battles. Or go competitive by joining a competitive squadron or take part in some tournaments. The possibilities are nearly endless.

 

THE GAME IS FREE FOR F***'S SAKE! Of course it's designed "for-profit using player-exploitation". Otherwise, where would the devs get money from? BUT as we've told you multiple times already, you shouldn't be having any problems economy-wise that early. If you are having economy problems, then that is your fault, not the game's fault. Maybe it's because you're using reserve vehicles. They have very low reward multipliers. Also are you spending your daily login reward boosters?

 

And why do you want talismans for your reserve vehicles if you're not going to play any of the vehicles that you research with them? Talismans only boost your RP reward multiplier and nothing else.

 

If you still don't like the profit model of WT, you can always go play other paid games.

Edited by kkang2828
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On 03/11/2020 at 19:06, SILVERGEMTEAM said:

Bro just prepare to suffer.

I would rather not.

It would be hopeful that 8 years of development that War Thunder be more than a PVP Money-Pit. I dont want to be on cooldowns to repair my vehicles and not lose silver even taking them out of the hangar. Vehicles past the Reserves are all Trophies.

I barely even play the Planes mode because it seem almost entirely about the luck of shooting down enemies before you get killed.
No matter how many ground targets I shouot I get less than 100 research and silver. Its the worst Plane Combat game Ive ever played.

The bad Air battles are why Its taken me 5 years before finally finding the more interesting Ground mode to play to switch to.

Edited by chaosticket

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1 hour ago, chaosticket said:

I dont want to be on cooldowns to repair my vehicles and not lose silver even taking them out of the hangar. Vehicles past the Reserves are all Trophies.

I barely even play the Planes mode because it seem almost entirely about the luck of shooting down enemies before you get killed.
No matter how many ground targets I shouot I get less than 100 research and silver. Its the worst Plane Combat game Ive ever played.

The bad Air battles are why Its taken me 5 years before finally finding the more interesting Ground mode to play to switch to.

 

Seriously, you'll have to L2P. Planes are a very controllable environ where one can do wagers very reliably. I think this is a problem you have, not the game.

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7 hours ago, chaosticket said:

I would rather not.

It would be hopeful that 8 years of development that War Thunder be more than a PVP Money-Pit. I dont want to be on cooldowns to repair my vehicles and not lose silver even taking them out of the hangar. Vehicles past the Reserves are all Trophies.

 

WT is a F2P game that will never reach LoL or Warframe levels of popularity. There's no reason to hope that it would be more than a "PVP Money-Pit". Compared to the closest competitor WoT(which isn't really close), WT is substantially less of a "money pit" due to the lack of gold shells and consumables. As we've told you multiple times, you shouldn't be having any SL problems that early. If you are having SL problems, you are doing something very wrong and it's not Gaijin's fault. 

 

Did you even read my previous answer? Why haven't you answered my questions?

 

On 04/11/2020 at 09:31, kkang2828 said:

Could you tell us just how much SL you have right now? Could you show us some of your post battle battle results? There's absolutely zero reason for you to be having SL problems with rank 1 vehicles unless you're doing something very wrong. What exactly are you using so much SL for? I mean, reserves don't even have repair costs. Also could you show us how far down the tech trees you are right now? We could recommend some fun vehicles that will definitely be worth spending some SL on.

 

On 04/11/2020 at 09:31, kkang2828 said:

THE GAME IS FREE FOR F***'S SAKE! Of course it's designed "for-profit using player-exploitation". Otherwise, where would the devs get money from? BUT as we've told you multiple times already, you shouldn't be having any problems economy-wise that early. If you are having economy problems, then that is your fault, not the game's fault. Maybe it's because you're using reserve vehicles. They have very low reward multipliers. Also are you spending your daily login reward boosters?

 

And why do you want talismans for your reserve vehicles if you're not going to play any of the vehicles that you research with them? Talismans only boost your RP reward multiplier and nothing else.

 

 

13 hours ago, chaosticket said:

I barely even play the Planes mode because it seem almost entirely about the luck of shooting down enemies before you get killed.
No matter how many ground targets I shouot I get less than 100 research and silver. Its the worst Plane Combat game Ive ever played.

The bad Air battles are why Its taken me 5 years before finally finding the more interesting Ground mode to play to switch to.

 

And how many air combat games have you played exactly? Everyone has their tastes(I myself do not like aerial combat) and WT arcade mode's learning curve is above average, but WT is far from the worst air combat game out there, by any means. The aviation economy is heavily biased towards fighter combat which takes a lot of skill to master. Plane kills earn much more rewards, but are also relatively harder to get than AI ground target kills. On the other hand, playing CAS(Close Air Support) against player controlled vehicles in ground and naval battles is very fun and gives you lots of rewards though it still takes a reasonable amount of skill to get good at it.

 

War Thunder ground forces came out 5 years ago. Why didn't you try it before?

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14 hours ago, chaosticket said:

The bad Air battles are why Its taken me 5 years before finally finding the more interesting Ground mode to play to switch to.

Honestly...there are people trying to help you, but even the more patient have to be somewhat annoyed at things like this...

You played 36 battles on P26s...i am assuming you are strafing ground targets a lot...with light MGs...

I dont need you to be a master, but it is a bit too early to claim it is the "worst air combat game out there"...

And i actually stopped playing planes, so i get the idea...but at least i gave it a honest try.

 

BTW...you keep saying odd stuff as "reserves are the best way to progress" that makes no sense to players that have been at the game far longer...and refuse to change...

There is NO WAY you can go anywhere playing reserves only. Repairs may be free but the earnings are VERY LOW, so it is a dead end once you try to research higher level vehicles. You CAN PLAY ALL DAY for free if that is what you want...and actually have fun...but TO PROGRESS it is WAY SLOW.

 

I get it. War Thunder has flaws...YES IT DOES...i complain about lots of them. But i dont get WHY you (or anyone) would take so much time to play and criticize something...if Gaijin doesn't care about complaints from guys with THOUSANDS of battles, do you think they will listen to you? And if the idea is to make players join you on complaints...there are already lots of topics with better justified complaints...and more followers...

 

LAST ATTEMPT at a suggestion:

Try to play RESERVES on a nation and later vehicles on another. This way you can keep playing the reserves, but the nation with later vehicles will progress faster. Repairs are FAST in lower levels...sometimes you will come back from a match with Nation B and Nation A is already ready to go.

 

 

Edited by [email protected]
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A new week so a new post maybe. Youve given good advice.

Thinking about everything Multiplayer games  was a bad fit for me. I play games for the Player-vs-Environment gameplay elements, not Player-Vs-Player.

I checked out many of the games I havent enjoyed and notice the patterns. They would be great if the developers started making Scenarios for people to play, AI enemies, cut down Pay-To-Play elements and so on. I checked out League of Legends this week and remembered why I quit that games years ago. They cut out the little PVE to make an ESport.

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39 minutes ago, chaosticket said:

A new week so a new post maybe. Youve given good advice.

Thinking about everything Multiplayer games  was a bad fit for me. I play games for the Player-vs-Environment gameplay elements, not Player-Vs-Player.

I checked out many of the games I havent enjoyed and notice the patterns. They would be great if the developers started making Scenarios for people to play, AI enemies, cut down Pay-To-Play elements and so on. I checked out League of Legends this week and remembered why I quit that games years ago. They cut out the little PVE to make an ESport.

There actually are already scenarios vs AI in game :) 

You can find them here:

Spoiler

 

You can also download user made missions etc. on the live.warthunder.com website. Alternatively if you don't mind playing against AI with other players, you can play Air assault arcade or Ground assault arcade, though these are only available once per day. You can find those by clicking the button to switch game mode at the top of your screen.

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22 hours ago, chaosticket said:

They would be great if the developers started making Scenarios for people to play

Although i agree Single Missions would be nice to have in tanks...there is always a tool (Custom Battles) that allow you to play vs AI.

You can tweak several options and use any map...but you are limited to the vehicles you already own...

(Only problem is you earn no SL or RP...but you can play for fun and/or learn maps/tactics)

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Well I meant an enjoyable single player/coop-vs-ai mode, one that DOES give Silver and Research points.

I already stated "#1 Buying Upgrades and #2 Unlocking new options are what make games interesting", and "I am a casual player so serious grinding requirements worry me."
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Online games cant be fun in the long term because they are designed around making money first. How they make money is by taking the fun out and charging you for it. Making exciting things tedious, like unlock new vehicles and upgrades take take longer and longer to acquire, resulting in less fun, and more importantly less efficiency in time and money.

They are not looking for a dedicated playerbase, but rather Whales to fund the,.

A person who spend incredible amount of money in games and gambling.

Ive looked into many dead or dying online games to find what makes them successful. The easiest identifier is whether something is fun before money is taken into account.

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1 hour ago, chaosticket said:

Well I meant an enjoyable single player/coop-vs-ai mode, one that DOES give Silver and Research points.

I already stated "#1 Buying Upgrades and #2 Unlocking new options are what make games interesting", and "I am a casual player so serious grinding requirements worry me."
=====================================
Online games cant be fun in the long term because they are designed around making money first. How they make money is by taking the fun out and charging you for it. Making exciting things tedious, like unlock new vehicles and upgrades take take longer and longer to acquire, resulting in less fun, and more importantly less efficiency in time and money.

They are not looking for a dedicated playerbase, but rather Whales to fund the,.

A person who spend incredible amount of money in games and gambling.

Ive looked into many dead or dying online games to find what makes them successful. The easiest identifier is whether something is fun before money is taken into account.

It seems like regardless of what people say you're set in your mindset that this game isn't for you, which is completely fine. Just remember, these "whales" are the ones supporting the game so that other players can play for free.

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World War 2 in particular is very interesting to me because of how much advancement in tactics and technology came about.
Early war everything was outdated because of the treaties to ban weapon development and production. Then with war development you had Radar & sonar on ships changing the fighting to beyond visual sight. Planes went from something like ww1 biplanes then ending with jet engines. Tanks increased so much in firepower/armor/mobility/anti-air/radio that early tanks were better as scrap, and the next advancement could radically change things.

Ive played many games related to it. Navyfield, Blazing Angels, many FPS games, Tactical games, strategy games, and so on.

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Like I said I play PVP games for the wrong reasons you would normally expect. I am a "Periphery Demographic". You play because you enjoy the PVP and can PVP all you want with no monetary cost. Its Shangri-la to you.

To me its ashes in my mouth to work so hard and achieve so little. Im still doing it, but more like gardening.

It takes hundreds of thousands of experience points and millions of silver lions to go from a USA M2 to M3 lee, M4 sherman, m4-76, m26, etc. If you completely cut out Silver Lions and Research point and instead made it something like "win 5 battles" to move up the next part of the tech tree then things would be a great deal more fun across 20 or so tech segments
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But youre saying I am wrong about being wrong?

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/11/2020 at 17:28, chaosticket said:

 

Ive played many games related to it. Navyfield, Blazing Angels, many FPS games, Tactical games, strategy games, and so on.

 

==================

 

Like I said I play PVP games for the wrong reasons you would normally expect. I am a "Periphery Demographic". You play because you enjoy the PVP and can PVP all you want with no monetary cost. Its Shangri-la to you.

.

If you completely cut out Silver Lions and Research point and instead made it something like "win 5 battles" to move up the next part of the tech tree then things would be a great deal more fun across 20 or so tech segments

.

To me its ashes in my mouth to work so hard and achieve so little. Im still doing it, but more like gardening.

 

But youre saying I am wrong about being wrong ?

 

You are correct in that playing match after match of near-identical PvP gameplay in an effort to earn (aka grind) and unlock content feels like "ashes in my mouth." That is exactly why after completing  thousands of battles doing just that and thousands of hours feeling just like that I have virtually stopped playing WT except for the rare occasion when an patch/update arrives with new gameplay or a vehicle that triggers my fascination.

 

Let me ask you frankly: are you playing War Thunder because you want a military vehicle PvP game that offers a good balance of fun battle modes and unlocking content?

 

If so, then this game will very quickly fall short of that expectation. I learned that the painful way.

 

Gaijin may yet satisfy that expectation, but it will take a huge shift in company culture and development vision to realize a fun, free-2-play war machine PvP combat simulator that doesn't blatantly impress on players that winning = grinding.

 

Such a game ~ semi-tactical WWII vehicle combat, fun & dynamic objectives, and no grind currently exist as Hell Let Loose and Post Scriptum.

 

Both only offer ground combat right now (infantry & tanks) and cost $30 upfront on Steam ($20 during a sale), but are infinitely more gameplay oriented than War Thunder.

 

The only semi-casual WWII shooter I can recommend right now with plans to integrate infantry, tanks, ships, AND planes is a $10 game called Warfare 1944. It's still in early development so tank gameplay will probably arrive this coming year with either aircraft or naval vessels right after that.

 

If you're looking for a grindless alternative to War Thunder to try out right now, those three games will be your best bet.

 

As for War Thunder, I've found that it is only good for geeking out over specific tanks, planes, and ships and seeing how they compare to other vehicles in combat. Nothing else. Investing in the grind should only contribute to that interest.

Edited by Results45
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