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New Player, Worried about long term game prospects


10 hours ago, chaosticket said:

Its never going to get easier is it?

Depends on your skill. To me it never got easier after RANK III or so. Most my opponents are as good as i am or better...so i keep a steady 1:1 K/D ratio...for over a year now...

(I do play on PS4, not sure if it really is keeping me "down")

 

I do get a bit better results when i play lower BRs now...Rank I or II i find more "newbies"...but i dont play there much...

 

10 hours ago, chaosticket said:

Its doubtful I will ever have the confidence of putting money into this game.

You dont HAVE TO. I didn't...as i actually never found anything worth buying...but i keep playing for free. Game is INHERENTLY FAIR...i lose because i miss and do stupid things...not because the opponent has more cash than i do. That and having fun is enough for me to keep coming back...

(i do admit i am playing less as i rise in rank...vehicles are repairing a lot more time...and i dont feel like playing some nations like China, Sweden...Even France or Italy are a bit too much copy paste to me)

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Theres basically nothing I can do to make things better. I cannot go into Casual Mode where ammunition explosions dont exist. I cannot modify the vehicles in any way to alleviate their flaws. Adding a 50caliber Machinegun mount to the commander hatch would be great.
Its up to the Gods of Luck whether they is any chance of success.

I wish there was a dedicated Co-Operative Player-Vs-Environment mode with better difficulty balance..

Whats the point of playing if there is always a chance of getting one-shot-killed, even in the top tiers?

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5 hours ago, chaosticket said:

I cannot go into Casual Mode where ammunition explosions dont exist.

 

Take less ammo!

 

5 hours ago, chaosticket said:

Adding a 50caliber Machinegun mount to the commander hatch would be great.

Play tanks with it.

 

5 hours ago, chaosticket said:

I wish there was a dedicated Co-Operative Player-Vs-Environment mode

Try assault.

 

5 hours ago, chaosticket said:

Whats the point of playing if there is always a chance of getting one-shot-killed, even in the top tiers?

Play Sims 4.

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I cannot go into Casual Mode where ammunition explosions dont exist

 

Ammunition explosions exist IRL

 

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I cannot modify the vehicles in any way to alleviate their flaws

 

You're playing something based on a real vehicle from history. Gaijin already plays fast and loose let's not go into fantasy.

 

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Adding a 50caliber Machinegun mount to the commander hatch would be great.

 

If the tank had it IRL it will be there. If not it won't. And commanders who stuck themselves out of the hatch in combat got shot.

 

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Its up to the Gods of Luck whether they is any chance of success.

 

I find the more I practice things the luckier I get.

 

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Whats the point of playing if there is always a chance of getting one-shot-killed, even in the top tiers?

 

Tanks get one shot killed IRL.

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11 hours ago, chaosticket said:

Whats the point of playing if there is always a chance of getting one-shot-killed, even in the top tiers?

This goes both ways...if you couldn't be one-shot killed...you would also have to hit every target multiple times...every time.

 

Game is based on trying to get that perfect shot that kills your enemy. For most of us, this is a GREAT feature...and "realistic". If you hit a tank on a vulnerable part, it will be destroyed...it is the best feelings in the game, when you do it by skill and to a tough target...

 

Say...killing an enemy jumbo that is protecting a cap right on the MG weakspot, using an inferior tank...priceless. Still remember some of these...

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"Realistic" does not always equal "interesting." You cannot argue realism why still running over realism whenever you feel like. That just makes you inconsistent.

Why are are Swedish vehicles prominently in World War 2? Why does China have a tech tree consisting of captured vehicles? Why are so many ammunition types carried on nations that didnt produce them? Why are so many prototypes and blueprint-only vehicles filling up the tech trees? Why do vehicles respawn?

In principle you must make breaks from reality to make things Fun for the audience, but not everyone is the Target. Who is the target audience? From what you say its the people who know the game exploits to kill Aces. Pretty much the same as any Player-Vs-Player game.
" The "Ivory Tower," or "system mastery" for those that don't hate it, involves deliberately sowing weak "newb traps" into your game."

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Or maybe you just downloaded the wrong game for your taste?

 

There are no deliberate newb traps in this game. But there are newbs who get trapped in their unwillingless to learn. They confuse their desire to improve with a willingless to learn. Familiar problem in school too, where tests and exams are full of traps (to some).

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14 hours ago, chaosticket said:

"Realistic" does not always equal "interesting." You cannot argue realism why still running over realism whenever you feel like. That just makes you inconsistent.

Realism is never 100% in games...Simulator is the least played mode in War Thunder, albeit the more realistic one...and i also dont play it...too much realism ;)

Like all games, War Thunder tries to get the balance right (hence the three realism levels)...and in MY CASE i like it as it is. I actually prefer Realistic Mode, but due to PS4 limitations i play more Arcade mode. Even so...it is much better than world of tanks...TO ME. Others may prefer the health bar system...nobody can please everybody.

SO...to ME, War Thunder is interesting...could be improved (a lot), but i see no better option to play ww2 tanks...

 

15 hours ago, chaosticket said:

Why are are Swedish vehicles prominently in World War 2? Why does China have a tech tree consisting of captured vehicles? Why are so many ammunition types carried on nations that didnt produce them? Why are so many prototypes and blueprint-only vehicles filling up the tech trees?

These questions actually make you the "target audience" of warthunder...so i wonder what the problem is...the ammo question is actually a "buff" question...not many players even aware of this issue..

I personally don't play Sweden, don't like the Chinese tree mess (particularly it mixing two opposing armies) and am not a big fan of several prototypes...but i can have LOTS OF FUN with War Thunder. Most of my games are with NORMAL vehicles like Panther, Tiger, M4s, T34s, etc...and most opposition also fields them...

That doesn't stop me from complaining in several topics...we can always try to improve the game...you will find out some of your "improvements" are seen as "bad ideas" by others ;)

15 hours ago, chaosticket said:

deliberately sowing weak "newb traps" into your game."

I have no idea what you mean here. ALL tanks are described IN DETAIL, you have an ammo penetration tool to check the effect of ANY WEAPON on (almost) ANY VEHICLE. And playing in arcade you have a cross that changes color depending on the odds of penetrating a vehicle...

Yes you have a "learning curve"...and game is "harsh"...but i dont see a "newb trap" anywhere...feel free to clarify...

 

 

 

3 hours ago, [email protected] said:

slot everything at no risk to yourself

This is obviously not possible on a PVP game...if you kill someone, then a player somewhere in the world will be annoyed by it...

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On 11/10/2020 at 16:40, Valcour said:

If you are new to the game I can not recommend Tier One in France.   In brief avoid.

 

Well, if you want to get the much better world class French tanks, no choice.

 

Anyway, Rank 1 is really easy.  Even worst ones can be spaded quickly.

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On 12/10/2020 at 06:27, chaosticket said:

I played World of Tanks from 2011-2015. Instead of trying to go back there I came to War Thunder to get the Tanks working. I am a casual player so serious grinding requirements worry me.

The real concern I have is about the game being padded. I see there are apparently 7 "ranks" of vehicles. I dont know if Ranks affect the matchmaker or is that is what Battle Rating is for?

#1 Tech Trees, there are 9 different nations so completing them all will take a lot of time. People have to unlock new ranks by researching and purchasing (6/6/6/6/5/4) 33 Total new vehicles to get to the final tier? Why so many? That seems like a massive grind to play something like a Leopard 2 or T-80. Unless the Gun is a significant improved over the last vehicle the purchase doesnt even seem to have a point but to make the tech trees larger.

#2 Costs: Repair work seems Free to begin with, but then vehicles stop having Free repairs.
Why do I have to retrain crew over and over for every vehicle , even when its a small difference like the M2/M3/M5 Stuart? I know that is real life but its padding to increase costs of research and purchasing.

#3 Are high tier vehicles glorified trophies? I Ran into this situation if World of Tanks where the higher tier vehicles were basically impossible to make a profit from battles so even getting them was a waste of time and money.
Do higher rank vehicles have multiplied rewards to handle the costs in repairs, crew retraining, upgrades, and ammunition? They should make back all the costs to unlock and purchase them.

The game is pretty fun at rank 1 but as soon as I start getting to Rank 2 I think all the fun will go away as the game becomes Pay-To-Play. Id like to know sooner rather than later if any Cash$ will be required to get to those Top Tier Rank 7 vehicles.

 

#1 I strongly recommend that you do not focus on getting to the tops of tech trees. You will get burned out very quickly. (Nearly) Every vehicle has a role in War Thunder and can be fun to play. Many people go back to play the lower BR vehicles after they've reached rank 7, stating that it is just more fun and rewarding at the lower BRs. Gun firepower isn't the only thing that's important in War Thunder tank battles. And even if you get a more powerful vehicle, your BR will go up so you'll see tougher enemies anyway. The most important thing is making tactical decisions quickly and trying to outplay the enemy and shoot them in their weak spots. Also remember that you can respawn in War Thunder so you need a lot of different vehicles in your lineup to maximize your combat efficiency. That's why there are a lot of vehicles. Unless your sole objective is to get top tier tanks, it's not much of a problem.

 

#2 It isn't much of a problem, at least in the low to mid ranks. You earn enough SL to compensate for that.

 

#3 If you want my personal opinion, they are glorified trophies. Not only are they unprofitable, but not very fun to play. But others do have fun with them. The rewards do get higher(each vehicle has its own reward multiplier for both RP and SL) but aren't exactly 1:1 with the increase in costs. But in the lower tiers the rewards are higher than the costs in most cases and people sometimes use low tier battles to gather SL and use it to pay the repair and ammo costs of their high tier vehicles. 

 

The game never at any point becomes Pay-to-Play. At worst it becomes Pay-to-Win and at best Pay-to-be-less-Frustrated. No cash is "required" to get top tier vehicles and play them. The game stays fun all the way if you overlook some frustrating things.(if you want to know what those are, just look around here on the forums).

 

Again, I strongly recommend that you do not focus on getting to the tops of tech trees. If you want to play modern vehicles, I suggest you play something else.

 

On 20/10/2020 at 09:53, chaosticket said:

Theres basically nothing I can do to make things better. I cannot go into Casual Mode where ammunition explosions dont exist. I cannot modify the vehicles in any way to alleviate their flaws. Adding a 50caliber Machinegun mount to the commander hatch would be great.
Its up to the Gods of Luck whether they is any chance of success.

I wish there was a dedicated Co-Operative Player-Vs-Environment mode with better difficulty balance..

Whats the point of playing if there is always a chance of getting one-shot-killed, even in the top tiers?

 

Looks like this game or even WoT isn't for you. Why don't you go play some Fortnite then?

Edited by kkang2828
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On 13/10/2020 at 04:30, chaosticket said:

This game is way too variable to put money down on it. In gambling games like poker game you can at least WIN Cash, so there is some chance of reward.
Ive gotten some games where Ive gotten 9 kills, 4 captures, and #1 spot on the team, and other games my tanks (maybe even all 3) are One-Shot-Killed and I earn almost nothing.
Does any game balance exist?

 

In the extremely early games, you are matched with mostly bots. Killing bots don't give you as large reward as killing actual players which is what the reward multipliers are calibrated for.

 

On 13/10/2020 at 18:00, Twisted said:

War Thunder is about the journey, not the destination.

 

This.

 

On 13/10/2020 at 20:17, Twisted said:

War Thunder will let you do it the way you want, you can do it like the gentle man above and have it forever hold your hand, or you can up your game and continue to grow through out your War Thunder journey. If you focus on KD Ratios and economy and repair costs, you will live in a world of never ending torture and never enjoy yourself. You want to forget about those things and focus on vehicles you like and want to master.

 

The tech tree is like a puzzle, that you will unlock, picking vehicles that match your style and learning them and getting good with them. By the time you are finished mastering it and starting to enjoy it, you will find that the next is already unlocked and you have the SL to get it.

 

If you approach it as a race, that is to be finished in the shortest time, you will be sorely disappointed and the task will seem impossible.

 

Remember, there is no end game in War thunder. Take your time, it is not a race, it is a journey to be savored.

 

And this.

 

On 13/10/2020 at 23:55, chaosticket said:

I hate to praise World of Tanks in another game, but WoT is the better Casual Arcade Game. I take for granted things like the "tank radar", lock-on targeting, Hit Points, fast vehicle/turrets speeds, non-respawning enemies, and easy profit(until the high tiers). Fair and Fun.

The things I hated there are Features in a serious Simulator Game like War Thunder. 30second life spans, One-shot kills, Achilles Heels/weak points, Internal Damage, "invisible" enemies, poor mobility, Meat-Grinder maps.

 

Then why are you even playing War Thunder?

 

On 19/10/2020 at 08:00, chaosticket said:

Its doubtful I will ever have the confidence of putting money into this game. Some days I just get one-shot over and over. Originally I was worried about High tiers. After only a  few days I became far more concerned the inherent unbalanced difficulty.

Its never going to get easier is it?

 

It does get easier. Every player was once a Ace. It happened to me. At first I was always fumbling and getting into the worst positions where the enemy could easily one-shot me. After watching a ton of Youtube videos and playing about a 1000 battles, it suddenly clicked, or so to say. My k/d ratio soared up and suddenly I was killing as much as I was dying, sometimes more, sometimes less. In War Thunder, you don't upgrade your vehicles inasmuch as you upgrade your skills. And money can't buy skills.

 

If you watch youtube videos, you'll realize that even the most skilled players often get one-shotted by other players that they didn't spot or couldn't get their guns on in time. It is what it is. You just respawn and try again.

 

One thing that really helped me was memorizing the gunner and driver positions of various tanks, starting with the most common ones(you can do this with the x-ray view). If you knock out the gunner(or the gun barrel), the enemy won't be able to shoot back and kill you, so you can reload and knock out the other crew. If you knock out the driver, the enemy won't be able to drive into cover, becoming easy prey. Even if it shoots back and kills you, chances are that a nearby teammate will be able to finish it off.

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I meant Easier as in "No More Instant Deaths".

Can you not just admit War Thunder is not n-o-o-b friendly?

So Far Ive unlocked 64 Rank 1 vehicles, and 10 Rank 2 vehicles. Are any of them fun?

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1 minute ago, chaosticket said:

I meant Easier as in "No More Instant Deaths".

 

Instant deaths? Direct your crew skill points to health and buy them "expert" status. Then it will happen much less.

 

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54 minutes ago, chaosticket said:

I meant Easier as in "No More Instant Deaths".

Can you not just admit War Thunder is n-o-o-b friendly?

So Far Ive unlocked 63 Rank 1 vehicles, and 10 Rank 2 vehicles. Are any of them fun?

Again...yes it is fun. You get instant deaths but also instant kills ;)

It makes no sense to me to have to shoot a target 4 or 5 times to see its health bar going down (this is even dumber in infantry FPS, but not the case here).

War Thunder is in fact MORE friendly than reality as most tanks would NOT survive some of the hits they do survive in this game. For instance, crew can repair damage and put out fires in seconds...in real world they would probably bail out... ;)

 

If you are NOT having fun, you are playing the wrong game...if you are in forum still complaining AFTER all was explained in some detail...you obviously dont agree with the game concept...and i am pretty sure devs won't change it, just because you dont like it.

I had LOTS of fun in the early levels, that's why i am still here...TO ME it is a lot of fun to aim at a somewhat distant target and see the effect of my round in XRay (which is also a n-o-o-b helping tool) and eventually adjust the next shot so i can get the kill. First shot kills are particularly rewarding...HENCE FUN.

OF COURSE it is more fun to kill the enemy, than die...but this is true on any game.

 

Since you asked...list of Rank I and II vehicles i recall having lots of fun with:

Stuarts, Grant, M13/16, M10, PzII, PzIV, Marder, Puma, Stugs, 88mm truck, Bt-5/7, T34 (all), T50, KV1, Zis30, Cromwells, Valentines and Churchills...

 

I actually played World of Tanks FIRST. Didn't like the "aracadish" environment...played a few levels and uninstalled...never went to a forum...no point, as the game was not what i wanted...irony is now i play mostly ARCADE here...but the things you complaint about are what interests me...and were in fact N-O-O-B friendly to me.

 

I tried to help, but right now i am also starting to wonder what you really want...

If you prefer world of tanks...i believe you can go back ;)

 

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Reading this topic I can't help it, but I have a feeling that OP does not want to play WoT,yet wants to play WoT... :dntknw:

 

On 13/10/2020 at 22:19, Galen503 said:

Is it just me or are the more players with super low games coming on to the forums that make many posts that ultimately lead to WoT is better so play that instead.

That would not be for the first time, when WG sent trolls to WT forums... :)

 

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2 hours ago, chaosticket said:

I meant Easier as in "No More Instant Deaths".

Can you not just admit War Thunder is not n-o-o-b friendly?

So Far Ive unlocked 64 Rank 1 vehicles, and 10 Rank 2 vehicles. Are any of them fun?

 

Insta-deaths will never disappear. That is a major trait of War Thunder since tanks were and are one-shotted IRL. Also killing the enemy in one shot is very satisfying. If you aren't one-shotted, so will the enemy. If tanks don't die in one shot, combat will just boil down to whoever has the fastest reload, which won't be fun.

 

Yes. War Thunder is not n-o-o-b friendly. You have to constantly learn and improve yourself. It's not a low-quality game that holds your hand like WoT, CoD, Battlefield, and Fortnite.

 

The only rank 1 and 2 vehicles that I didn't have fun with were the Italian M11/39, the Soviet T-26-4 and GAZ-AAA (DShK), and the French AMC.34 YR and H.35 and FCM.36. Mainly because of the combination of poor mobility and weak guns. All the others are fun once you learn how the game works. Also some tanks such as the Soviet T-28 and the German Pz.II are not very good at first, but become very good tanks once you unlock better shells. Many tanks are substantially better when fully upgraded so you shouldn't really judge a vehicle by its stock state.

 

P.S. I strongly recommend you to not play China. Nearly all the vehicles are copy-pasted from other nations and as such it is a waste of time.

 

58 minutes ago, ManOfHarlech said:

Reading this topic I can't help it, but I have a feeling that OP does not want to play WoT,yet wants to play WoT... :dntknw:

 

An excellent summary.

Edited by kkang2828
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"With different parts of the player base seeking different levels of realism, it's not easy to agree on what are considered Acceptable Breaks from Reality."

"Each time Gaijin has added more advanced vehicles and weapons (such as guided missiles, modern tanks with composite and/or reactive armor, SPAA with radar, helicopters, and most recently supersonic jets and air-to-air missiles) this has been highly divisive. For some players, this is what they always wanted War Thunder to become and they'd prefer to see even more modern vehicles"
=========================================
Review

The Good: On paper War Thunder is amazing, combining Land, Air, and Sea forces in one game. It addresses things other games rarely tackle such as many different ammunition, usable machine guns, multiple functional guns/turrets, looking through the commander hatch/cupola. There are different levels of realism/difficulty that can be chosen. Vehicles range between 1930s to modern vehicles. There are over 200 vehicles to try just in ground vehicles category.

The Bad:. War Thunder has an Arcade mode, but its ruined by adhering to reality in the worst way, and then paradoxically following videogame logic at other times. Everything no matter how armored feels soft when driven but enemies feel like brick walls, because you have to shoot weakspots using manual aiming. Vehicles have "radar" through minimaps, but its nearly useless for defense. There are no non-vehicular enemies like infantry or pillboxes. Enemies respawn, because why not? The only objectives are "kill all enemies, and/or capture zones to win". Advanced technology like improved optical scopes or are only later vehicles, and the early vehicles are a wall to get to the modern vehicles when they should probably have their own separate vehicle trees.

The Ugly: If the Arcade/Easy mode was more balanced than the game would be near perfect as the basis for a grand idea. Instead its a Niche product aiming for Simulation gamers.

Edited by chaosticket
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12 hours ago, chaosticket said:

"With different parts of the player base seeking different levels of realism, it's not easy to agree on what are considered Acceptable Breaks from Reality."

"Each time Gaijin has added more advanced vehicles and weapons (such as guided missiles, modern tanks with composite and/or reactive armor, SPAA with radar, helicopters, and most recently supersonic jets and air-to-air missiles) this has been highly divisive. For some players, this is what they always wanted War Thunder to become and they'd prefer to see even more modern vehicles"
=========================================
Review

The Good: On paper War Thunder is amazing, combining Land, Air, and Sea forces in one game. It addresses things other games rarely tackle such as many different ammunition, usable machine guns, multiple functional guns/turrets, looking through the commander hatch/cupola. There are different levels of realism/difficulty that can be chosen. Vehicles range between 1930s to modern vehicles. There are over 200 vehicles to try just in ground vehicles category.

The Bad:. War Thunder has an Arcade mode, but its ruined by adhering to reality in the worst way, and then paradoxically following videogame logic at other times. Everything no matter how armored feels soft when driven but enemies feel like brick walls, because you have to shoot weakspots using manual aiming. Vehicles have "radar" through minimaps, but its nearly useless for defense. There are no non-vehicular enemies like infantry or pillboxes. Enemies respawn, because why not? The only objectives are "kill all enemies, and/or capture zones to win". Advanced technology like improved optical scopes or are only later vehicles, and the early vehicles are a wall to get to the modern vehicles when they should probably have their own separate vehicle trees.

The Ugly: If the Arcade/Easy mode was more balanced than the game would be near perfect as the basis for a grand idea. Instead its a Niche product aiming for Simulation gamers.

 

Where did you get that quote from? The quote is true, but for the majority of the playerbase, including me, Gaijin has managed to balance it out between realism and arcade and between WW2 and modern stuff. Modern stuff is divisive. I myself am opposed to anything past the 1950s. WW2 is where the fun is at for me. But for others, modern stuff is what they want and have fun with. I totally appreciate them and as long as Gaijin balances the focus across all aspects of the game, I'm okay with it.

 

This is not a review. Not with only 402 battles under your belt. It's more of a "first impressions". 

 

What exactly ruins Arcade here? 

 

12 hours ago, chaosticket said:

Everything no matter how armored feels soft when driven but enemies feel like brick walls, because you have to shoot weakspots using manual aiming.

 

As I said, that is just a feeling that you get because you don't have enough experience/skill yet. Also there's probably some negativity bias in there as well, meaning that you're only remembering the worst moments of your experience. In the end your enemies are also mostly new players driving more or less the same tanks. As for shooting weakspots using manual aiming, Arcade has the magic crosshair which shows (almost) exactly where your shells will land and whether you can pen that spot or not. It's literally the same thing that's also in WoT. What more do you want? An aimbot that automatically aims your gun at the enemy weakspot?

 

12 hours ago, chaosticket said:

Vehicles have "radar" through minimaps, but its nearly useless for defense.

 

You and your teammates' eyes are your radar. In arcade, if you or a nearby ally has line of sight to an enemy, the enemy appears on the map. So you have to constantly look around. When anyone can get one-shot, not being seen and seeing the enemy first becomes the best defence. The fog of war works both ways. You can't always see your enemies and the enemy can't always see you. It's completely fair. 

 

12 hours ago, chaosticket said:

Enemies respawn, because why not?

 

It's not realistic, but the way I see it, it's a counter to one-shots. You can get one-shot, but you can respawn in another tank. Also it makes battles longer and more tactically engaging.

 

12 hours ago, chaosticket said:

There are no non-vehicular enemies like infantry or pillboxes. The only objectives are "kill all enemies, and/or capture zones to win". Advanced technology like improved optical scopes or are only later vehicles, and the early vehicles are a wall to get to the modern vehicles when they should probably have their own separate vehicle trees.

 

Those are all viable criticisms and I totally agree that modern stuff should be a seperate game mode with seperate tech trees. But it is what it is and nothing is inherently unbalanced about it because the enemy gets what you get, whether it's good or bad. The majority of the playerbase generally agrees that it's a nice mix of realism and fun. As I said, the early vehicles aren't necessarily a grindwall. If your objective is to get to top tier ASAP, than it is a wall. But if you just want to have fun, it's just a fun part of the game. 

 

12 hours ago, chaosticket said:

The Ugly: If the Arcade/Easy mode was more balanced than the game would be near perfect as the basis for a grand idea. Instead its a Niche product aiming for Simulation gamers.

 

Once again, nothing is inherently unbalanced about it because the enemy gets what you get, whether it's good or bad.

 

War Thunder is far from a niche product aimed at sim gamers. It's even one of the 30 games that will be available on the new Xbox Series X/S from day one. It has been one of the top games on Steam(based on gross revenue and online player count) since 2016 and it isn't even a Steam exclusive unlike many other games on that list(Steam players constitute a small group within War Thunder's PC playerbase and there are quite a lot of players who play on console as well). In April this year, there were a staggering 121,784 players online at the same time. By contrast, the real niche hardcore simulations like DCS and IL-2 only had a couple thousand and about 500 players online respectively around that time. 

 

Sources:

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/10/15/30-optimized-games-on-xbox-series-x-and-s-on-launch-day/

https://store.steampowered.com/sale/2016_top_sellers/

https://store.steampowered.com/sale/2017_top_played/

https://store.steampowered.com/sale/2018_top_played/

https://store.steampowered.com/sale/2019_top_sellers/

https://warthunder.com/en/news/6675-special-award-for-record-breakers-en

https://stormbirds.blog/2020/03/09/il-2-had-one-of-its-most-popular-multiplayer-days-this-past-sunday/

https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/aax23n/anybody_knows_how_many_active_players_dcs_has/

 

If you really want modern vehicles above all other features, why don't you try Armored Warfare? It's much more arcadey and very similar to WoT, but you start out with tanks that are rank 5 in WT and the tech trees end with things like the T-14 Armata and the XM1A3. 

Edited by kkang2828
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On 22/10/2020 at 17:39, chaosticket said:

I meant Easier as in "No More Instant Deaths".

Can you not just admit War Thunder is not n-o-o-b friendly?

So Far Ive unlocked 64 Rank 1 vehicles, and 10 Rank 2 vehicles. Are any of them fun?

 

I admit, War Thunder is not n-o-o-b friendly. Any half-seasoned player should (and probably would) admit that. But since you come from WoT, let me ask you, do you honestly believe that it is a newbie friendly game?


A little while ago, I got really frustrated with WT, and I thought "hey, lets try that other game". And when I did, I ironically had many of the same issues you have been complaining about, only in reverse. I was so used to how things worked in WT that everything in WoT seemed really weird and strange and nonsensical. Anyway I played a few hundred games but eventually drifted away from it. For me personally, it was too arcady.

 

On 22/10/2020 at 21:42, chaosticket said:

"With different parts of the player base seeking different levels of realism, it's not easy to agree on what are considered Acceptable Breaks from Reality."

"Each time Gaijin has added more advanced vehicles and weapons (such as guided missiles, modern tanks with composite and/or reactive armor, SPAA with radar, helicopters, and most recently supersonic jets and air-to-air missiles) this has been highly divisive. For some players, this is what they always wanted War Thunder to become and they'd prefer to see even more modern vehicles"
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Review

The Good: On paper War Thunder is amazing, combining Land, Air, and Sea forces in one game. It addresses things other games rarely tackle such as many different ammunition, usable machine guns, multiple functional guns/turrets, looking through the commander hatch/cupola. There are different levels of realism/difficulty that can be chosen. Vehicles range between 1930s to modern vehicles. There are over 200 vehicles to try just in ground vehicles category.

The Bad:. War Thunder has an Arcade mode, but its ruined by adhering to reality in the worst way, and then paradoxically following videogame logic at other times. Everything no matter how armored feels soft when driven but enemies feel like brick walls, because you have to shoot weakspots using manual aiming. Vehicles have "radar" through minimaps, but its nearly useless for defense. There are no non-vehicular enemies like infantry or pillboxes. Enemies respawn, because why not? The only objectives are "kill all enemies, and/or capture zones to win". Advanced technology like improved optical scopes or are only later vehicles, and the early vehicles are a wall to get to the modern vehicles when they should probably have their own separate vehicle trees.

The Ugly: If the Arcade/Easy mode was more balanced than the game would be near perfect as the basis for a grand idea. Instead its a Niche product aiming for Simulation gamers.

 

I want to ask, have you only been playing arcade mode? Because honestly, imo, arcade is in some ways actually less forgiving for beginners, because it makes some adjustments to how tank combat works that can actually make it harder if you don't know the game well. I'd suggest you actually try realistic battles using reserve tier vehicles to see how it is. This may also be worthwhile because the game economy is primarily focused around realistic battles, imo it is much easier to make money there.

 

On the note of economy: tier 1 vehicles earn almost nothing. They cost almost nothing, but the also earn almost nothing. The ranks that are good for earning money are 2-4 imo.

 

A note on ammo, since you mentioned it a few times: unlike in WoT, a shell with more maximum penetration isn't necessarily better. For most guns, there is one shell that tends to be the best for most scenarios, just look up which one it is and use that one. And unlike in WoT - DO NOT BRING MAXIMUM AMMO. Bringing more ammo raises the chance of ammo explosion - only bring as much ammo as you will actually need, which for most tanks is 20-30 maximum.

 

Finally, this is just a fact, but: you can't expect to start playing the game and immediately be an excellent player. This is no different to any other online game, including WoT - new players always need some time to learn what they're doing. Surely you are aware of that.

 

I would highly suggest that you give the game a chance, maybe try some realistic battles, and maybe watch a video or two explaining matchmaking, ammo, basic tactics. Having played both WoT and WT I can say that both definitely have their benefits and drawbacks, but overall, once you get the hang of WT, it is definitely the better game in the vast majority of metrics. Especially once you figure out which vehicles are actually fun for you.

 

By the way also think about which nation you are using - what are you maining right now? I'd suggest to go for US or RU - buy n large they have the most newbie-friendly tanks, and they have large tech trees with a fair bit of variety which is nice.

 

Edited by sw_3
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On 11/10/2020 at 17:27, chaosticket said:

I played World of Tanks from 2011-2015. Instead of trying to go back there I came to War Thunder to get the Tanks working. I am a casual player so serious grinding requirements worry me.

#1 Tech Trees, there are 9 different nations so completing them all will take a lot of time.

 

People have to unlock new ranks by researching and purchasing (6/6/6/6/5/4) 33 Total new vehicles to get to the final tier? Why so many?

 

That seems like a massive grind to play something like a Leopard 2 or T-80. Unless the Gun is a significant improved over the last vehicle the purchase doesnt even seem to have a point but to make the tech trees larger.
 

 

That's the point of the business model Gaijin has engineered. Their goal when they started out in 2012/2013 was to offer a more realistic (actual physics-based damage mechanics and no HP bars) and integrated alternative to World of Warplanes, World of Tanks, and World of Ships, but it seems they (or maybe just Creative Director Anton Yudintsev and a few leads) never committed to molding the game past anything but a saturated Free-to-Play grindfest. I mean, they've dabbled in eSports (Thunder League), alternative battle modes like battle royale, multi-hour Enduring Confrontation matches (some of the most rewarding and highest RP/SL payout battles I've ever played), and World War Mode but so far the game as a whole is still built around grinding out vehicle trees in team death matches with cap-points.

 

For context, Gaijin started monetizing the game heavily around late 2014. They added the login roulette & lootbox "crates", as well as Convertible Research Points aka CRaP (before ALL research points earned in battle went to unlocking vehicles & modules), made Premium Account less effective as well as making previously Premium-only perks like talismans & backups available to anyone willing to pay up GE, saturated the research trees with copy-and-paste vehicle variants, raised the research ceiling to 380,000RP+, and increased the cost in Silver Lions needed to purchase repairs-rearmament-upgrades-vehicles (I think early on it increased more linearly at each successive Tier/Rank, but now it's exponentially more).

 

If you have the extra budget, I recommend buying some premium vehicles, store packs, or Golden Eagles when they go on-sale at the end of this month and December. That's really the only way I've found to bypass grinding Tier 1 and Tier 2 vehicles as late Tier 2 and Tier 3 is where both gameplay and vehicles start getting more interesting and fun. But if you must, Tier 1 and 2 doesn't take that long to unlock :wink:

 

If you do ever get your hands on a chunk of Golden Eagles, here's what I would use it on (ranked first-to-last by usefulness):

  1. More crew slots
  2. shrubbery/foliage decorations (if you tend to camp in forests and bushes a lot or somehow disguise as a plant very well)
  3. Premium vehicles that compliment or contribute to your play style(s)
  4. Getting to play Tier 3 vehicles right away by buying-out most or all Tier 1 & 2 vehicles.
  5. Buying more points to level-up crews.
  6. Avoiding that last 10% of RP grind and/or refilling your coffers with Silver Lions
  7. Buying Premium Account and power-ups/consumables (talismans, backups, upgrades, etc.)

 

As for upper Tiers 6 & 7 I can tell you straight up: IT's NOT WORTH IT. I've spent thousands of hours and $200+ over the years into WT and I still do not own a single Tier 6/7 vehicle. My best advice is to speed up the grind where you can by learning tips, tricks, and metagame "hacks" as you play and buying premium vehicles/using GE when you can afford it.

 

The most important thing I've learned since I started in 2013 is to enjoy the game for what it is and to play other games or engage in other areas of life when WT stops being fun.

 

 

On 11/10/2020 at 17:27, chaosticket said:


#2 Costs: Repair work seems Free to begin with, but then vehicles stop having Free repairs.


Why do I have to retrain crew over and over for every vehicle , even when its a small difference like the M2/M3/M5 Stuart? I know that is real life but its padding to increase costs of research and purchasing.
 

 

I remember seeing each vehicle getting one free repair each day (or is it every couple hours?). Also the repair costs of Tier 1 vehicles is negligible compared to higher tiers which is why you start noticing it more the further you go. Again, each and every annoying little cost is part of Gaijin's business F2P business model. It forces you to live with the grind or get frustrated enough to invest real dollars into the game. 

 

At some point I was able to go from several thousand SL to a million in the span of a few weeks now it can take a few months.

 

 

On 11/10/2020 at 17:27, chaosticket said:


#3 Are high tier vehicles glorified trophies? I Ran into this situation if World of Tanks where the higher tier vehicles were basically impossible to make a profit from battles so even getting them was a waste of time and money.


Do higher rank vehicles have multiplied rewards to handle the costs in repairs, crew retraining, upgrades, and ammunition? They should make back all the costs to unlock and purchase them.

 

 

Yes. Tier 1 is a free-for-all frenzy and Tier 6/7 is a slugfest for victors ~ those who have grinded the longest or have coughed-up the most money.

 

Gaijin's grind model makes the cost of attain vehicles at each successive tier exponentially harder as opposed to increasing costs at a linear rate which would reduce costs at the highest tiers by 25-35%.

 

 

On 11/10/2020 at 17:27, chaosticket said:

I see there are apparently 7 "ranks" of vehicles. I dont know if Ranks affect the matchmaker or is that is what Battle Rating is for?

The game is pretty fun at rank 1 but as soon as I start getting to Rank 2 I think all the fun will go away as the game becomes Pay-To-Play. Id like to know sooner rather than later if any Cash$ will be required to get to those Top Tier Rank 7 vehicles.

 

Tiers or "Ranks" serve as segmentation in research trees (also referred to as "tech trees"). Some events will require vehicles from a certain Tier/Rank while other events only allow vehicles from a certain range of battle ratings (BRs). I believe both Tiers/Ranks and battle ratings are taken into account by the matchmaker (MM) when placing you into a battle. Battle Ratings is what prevents the MM from pitting you against opponents more than 1.0 BR above or below the highest-rated vehicle in the lineup you take into a match (or "MMBR Spread" or just "BR Spread") ~ players often refer to this effect as "uptier" or "downtier".

 

Since 2016, there have been massive attempts in the past ( like this one ) by the community to get Gaijin to reduce the BR Spread to +/- 0.7 with thousands of players voting in support of it, but the devs have since shelved the idea in 2018.

 

Yes, after Tier 1 things get the gameplay gets fairly more challenging (and sometimes frustrating). Some of it might have to do with people having better vehicles (either purchased or unlocked/upgraded), but it's actually the steeper learning curve as players solidify they playstyle(s), become masters at using their preferred vehicles, tactics & map layouts become second nature, key bindings become muscle memory, and just upping their game in general.

 

Having unlocked Tiers 2, 3, and 4, I realize that it took both sticking to the grind and encountering players with skill levels that are leagues above me to get better myself. It's just a part of the journey. It also helps to join a clan and play with friends on Discord.

 

Sure, there may be some "pay-to-win" going on with people shelling out $$$ and GE for premium content and fully upgraded/"aced" vehicles, but that's usually a short-term advantage as they eventually begin getting beaten by more experienced players.

 

Again, Tier 6 and Tier 7 is not worth your time and money unless you are committed to playing the game often over the next 10 years. I estimate it would take at least hundreds if not up to a couple thousand bucks to completely unlock all T6/T7 vehicles as well as buy all premium vehicles with GE and rare vehicles with GaijinCoin on the Gaijin Market.

 

If you are considering to money spend some money on the game, I would use it to ease the grind in the mid-tiers if it you think that will make the game more enjoyable (aka the list of things I would spend Golden Eagles on near the beginning). Otherwise, go spend that money on other games or other things you find important in life.

 

I recommend semi-tactical shooters like Hell Let Loose and Squad. They give you a sense of camaraderie that's super lacking in War Thunder while keeping the gameplay super epic.

 

On 11/10/2020 at 17:27, chaosticket said:

The real concern I have is about the game being padded.

 

Members of this community has been trying to turn the game around since it released as an open-beta back in 2013 or at least offer Gaijin ideas to make the grind a lot more bearable by reworking the gameplay to be a lot more meaningful and dynamic. Gaijin fixed a lot of the game's worst issues when the playerbase was most vocal from 2015-2017, but they have not expressed any intention to change the core gameplay or their business model since.

 

Play this game to geek out on military vehicles and the complimentary gameplay, not if you think it's going to be the funnest game ever.

 

There's actually game-modding community started by a YouTuber Bludrake42 (Connor Hill) who got sick with dealing with game developers' BS so he ended up shaping the community into a game development studio where anybody with the slightest bit of relevant experience can join the development efforts.

 

It's super cool: https://drakelings.bluedrake42.com/index.php?/forums/

Edited by Results45
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I hope there are more events for half-price sales for vehicles and bonus research points.

Still on the Long Term plan. Grind using Reserve Vehicles.

Suggestion: Gaijin. Give each faction a 3rd Reserve Vehicle.

Also, why would I ever like dying in a game?

Edited by chaosticket

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11 hours ago, chaosticket said:

I hope there are more events for half-price sales for vehicles and bonus research points.

Still on the Long Term plan. Grind using Reserve Vehicles.

Suggestion: Gaijin. Give each faction a 3rd Reserve Vehicle.

Also, why would I ever like dying in a game?

Bad news here...they do it twice a year...October and Christmas...they did it on summer ONCE...but then stopped...

 

Grind is more effective with medium ranks...3,7 to 5.7 or so...at reserves it is slower...much slower

 

Nobody likes dying...but if killing you is hard, then it will be hard for you to get kills...

WT requires experience...but (any game) should be fun...

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On 20/10/2020 at 02:53, chaosticket said:

Whats the point of playing if there is always a chance of getting one-shot-killed, even in the top tiers?

the point is that you can one shot them too.

higher risk higher reward

 

I played HnG before i got into WT. That had a HP based system for long and i hated it that skill and shot placement wasnt rewarded. Thats why i like WT. Because every shot counts. It makes weaker tanks more balanced against more powerfull once.

 

take less ammo( i take about 20, or less), take a look at the tank inX-ray so you know where your ammo is and than keep it in mind when you are fighting. Also many times, like with Japanese tanks the transmission is big enough to sufficiently cover your ammo from frontal penetrations if you take about 20 rounds..

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38 minutes ago, Jacky95 said:

Thats why i like WT. Because every shot counts. It makes weaker tanks more balanced against more powerfull once.

This^^

 

On "health bar" games the stronger tank will have the advantage...almost always...

On WT, a good shot by a very inferior vehicle can get the kill...it is great when you do it...can be frustrating when done to you...but THE CONCEPT IS GOOD to me.

 

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