Jump to content
29 minutes ago, Turra said:

50cals are fine. 

50cals with alot of ap is bad tho, 50cals are essentially flamethrowers with the incidiary rounds. Whats more baffelibg us how one can say 50cals needs a buff when 50cals have been over preforming for years and we still have cannons that suffer alot from underpreformence. 

we are talking SB here not RB. Things works a bit different here and RB experience not necessarily translates 1:1

  • Confused 2
  • Upvote 5
medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Kernow1346 said:

Yea, surprised belts hadn’t been mentioned before.  There’s a MASSIVE difference between the late belts and the early/mid versions.  I could believe the earlier ones might underperform a bit or they could be fine, but the late belts are magical lasers in comparison.

Even early 50 cals are perfectly fine. 


Yes, the early .50 cals (F4F, P-40, etc.) are not insane individually, but they more than make up for it with many of the aircraft that carry them having 6 Mgs.

The mid .50 cals (F6F, P-51C, F4U, P-39, P63) are better, and thus still fine if not even quite powerful (considering the low-ish burst mass they have)

 

The late .50 cals (P47, P51D/H, jets) are as absurd as ever, deleting anything that goes through the death ray. Even with only 4 on the G.91's, you can still easily take out big boys like F4 Phantoms


In the video used as "proof", I mostly see misses with a few glancing hits. Which apparently completely wreck one aileron and probably half the elevator. I find that to be pretty fair, if not even quite generous for this amount of hits using mostly AP rounds that go straight through the aircraft cover.

As for the KD of the mustang during the war, it is completely irrelevant in assessing the power of .50 cals, because it doesn't give any information as to the number of rounds fired per victory, the number of hits required to down an aircraft, or obviously take into account  the situation of the fighting in late WW2 with absolute allied  air supremacy over Europe. 

And obviously, it neglects how the US kill claims are many times higher than the actual losses of the Luftwaffe, since the US command was very generous in awarding kills, unlike the British, French or Germans.

  • Upvote 2
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok a little about me I’m a 13 yr veteran of SB that’s spent about 300 bucks on the game over the yrs who obviously loves the game because he keeps playing even though his k/d is atrocious  but he getting ready to walk away from a dieing game mode. Which is the topic just above this one. So you might want to consider what I’m saying. 

10 hours ago, przybysz86 said:

what you propose (insta-kill) would make tactics even less important. it will dumb the game down into a series of high deflection shots in order to score that one lucky hit.

 

Yea that’s called a dogfight and I disagree it make tactics more important. Do you know I have chased Greek and them around “whenever I caught them out alone” for 2 to 3 minutes without ever even being able to pull the trigger “now that’s tactics”.                         Now you

 

6 hours ago, Turra said:

50cals are fine. 

50cals with alot of ap is bad tho, 50cals are essentially flamethrowers with the incidiary rounds. Whats more baffelibg us how one can say 50cals needs a buff when 50cals have been over preforming for years and we still have cannons that suffer alot from underpreformence. 

And you 

 

8 hours ago, AdelWolf said:

Both German cannons and American guns are ok. They have different use and different strength and weakness. 

and the way they work is also fine.

 

The problem lies with with 109's. The damage doesn't seem to be effecting the aircraft. It keeps flying without loss of lift. 

It just keeps flying like a space shuttle leaving every damaged part behind. 

 

In the mustang you can get hit by German Mg to the left wing at yellow damage and you won't be able to fly straight and your performance will drop by %20 and you will have to trim the vehicle up to %30.

 

But you can waste whole ammunition on the 109 it can turn into Swiss cheese no gear, no flap even half wing and still goes at %90 performance.

In a 109 it is more like: The more part you lose, the more weight you will lose thus you get better T/W....

Are more or less agreeing with me a whole lot more planes come back unscathed then come back all riddled with bullets. Ok I heard before you didn’t want to drive Aces from SB. A Ace is always gonna get his but shot off that just the nature of being a Ace but what’s more likely to keep him playing he just happens to be in the right place at the right time finds himself behind an enemy that crosses in front of his guns he shoots and hits but the just flys away or he shoots and “sorry to do this to you adlewolf“ gets the kill and just happens to be an Adelewolf or any other top leaderboard players. Insta kill bombers brought people from RB to SB so do the same with the fighters. So I say again laser beams for everyone in SB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Every time someone posts this people from RB swarm in here and say the .50s are just fine. They are, in RB, where super-steady mouse aim makes the flatter trajectory of the .50s vs. cannons lethal at long ranges. There's no trouble keeping time-on-target there.

 

All I can say as someone who usually flies Allied (P-38 — with one cannon, no less!), is whenever I fly Axis I am blown away by how easy it is to bring someone down. You Axis flyers don't seem to appreciate how good you've got it. :D

 

Edited by IdahoBookworm
  • Thanks 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, IdahoBookworm said:

All I can say as someone who usually flies Allied (P-38 — with one cannon, no less!), is whenever I fly Axis I am blown away by how easy it is to bring someone down. You Axis flyers don't seem to appreciate how good you've got it.

That's because the MG 151 is pretty badly overperforming.  

 

Fly the F4U-4B, and you will get the same experience as flying Axis planes because the AN/M 20mm cannons are pretty gross now too.  

 

Speaking again from an Air RB perspective, so take what I say with a grain of salt.  

 

1 hour ago, IdahoBookworm said:

Every time someone posts this people from RB swarm in here and say the .50s are just fine. They are, in RB, where super-steady mouse aim makes the flatter trajectory of the .50s vs. cannons lethal at long ranges. There's no trouble keeping time-on-target there.

I can understand this sentiment, but just as Air SB players infiltrate the Air RB subforum to argue about suggestions made there, it's not unreasonable for us to argue about suggestions made here because changes made in each gamemode affect the other.  If .50s get buffed to unrealistic, levels as proposed here by some people, it will have hugely negative repercussions in Air RB.  I know I don't have much leg to stand on here by suggesting how to fly in Air SB as an Air RB player, but .50s should require some forethought and strategy to use.  You shouldn't be able to get instant kills from short micro-bursts.  You need to fly in a way that facilitates accurate and consistent bursts on the enemies' critical components.  

 

I think IL-2 does a pretty excellent job modeling .50 cal damage.  You don't see instant kills from snapshots.  In fact, those are almost always non-lethal.  Instead, kills come from considerable bursts that cause engine damage, fluid leaks, pilot snipes, and control surface damage over time.

 

Example:

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@xBromanx in IL2 it's easier to kill engines and set planes on fire than WT.
Il2 is in general very harsh when it comes to engine damage even when flying.

In IL2 there is also mechanic to weaken plane structure due to damage that will fail when you pull some Gs for example and pilot injuries have higher effect as well + pilot can bleed to death

  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, przybysz86 said:

@xBromanx in IL2 it's easier to kill engines and set planes on fire than WT.
Il2 is in general very harsh when it comes to engine damage even when flying.

In IL2 there is also mechanic to weaken plane structure due to damage that will fail when you pull some Gs for example and pilot injuries have higher effect as well + pilot can bleed to death

Sounds good to me.  I would love to see that in War Thunder.  I can see how it doesn't really represent reality (the engine damage part) because realistically you might have ~20 minutes flight time after getting a fluid leak or damaged engine before it seized, but realistically the pilot likely wouldn't have only a few 10kms to fly to get back to their airfield.  An accelerated death rate for damaged engine would simulate a more realistic experience given the constraints we have in War Thunder, and would make the kinetic damage-reliant rounds in .50s more viable.   

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, xBromanx said:

Sounds good to me.  I would love to see that in War Thunder.  I can see how it doesn't really represent reality (the engine damage part) because realistically you might have ~20 minutes flight time after getting a fluid leak or damaged engine before it seized, but realistically the pilot likely wouldn't have only a few 10kms to fly to get back to their airfield.  An accelerated death rate for damaged engine would simulate a more realistic experience given the constraints we have in War Thunder, and would make the kinetic damage-reliant rounds in .50s more viable.   

not sure if you play SB much (after all this is SB subforum) but engine damage and especially leaks are much more deadly here.
While in RB I've seen videos of people dogfighting for minutes with orange engine, in SB all sort of damage is much more punishing.

We also do not have instructor (at least fighters don't) that can negate damage. if your plan is shattered it will be visibly slower and it will behave worse overall.
It's something many people do not get IMO. you don't need to kill enemy for guns to be effective. Often just damaging him is good outcome. Just instead of ranting how he is alive, take time and exploit fact that he is no longer flying that well.

Sadly  many people just go "all in" for a kill shot and when they hit but don't kill - they are screwed because they over-extended.
I am guilty of that too sometimes.

  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, przybysz86 said:

not sure if you play SB much (after all this is SB subforum) but engine damage and especially leaks are much more deadly here.
While in RB I've seen videos of people dogfighting for minutes with orange engine, in SB all sort of damage is much more punishing.

Well, if that's true, then I'll take back what I said.  I don't have any SB experience, so I will defer to your statement here, but you are correct about Air RB.  Engine damage and fluid leaks are largely harmless.

 

3 minutes ago, przybysz86 said:

Sadly  many people just go "all in" for a kill shot and when they hit but don't kill - they are screwed because they over-extended.
I am guilty of that too sometimes.

I agree completely.  Even in Air RB this is a problem.  A player will hit an enemy and rip off an aileron and cause every fluid to leak, and severely reduce the performance of the enemy's plane, and then they will complain about how their guns do nothing but spark.....

 

:facepalm:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, xBromanx said:

Well, if that's true, then I'll take back what I said.  I don't have any SB experience, so I will defer to your statement here, but you are correct about Air RB.  Engine damage and fluid leaks are largely harmless.

 

I'd say SB is between IL2 and RB (I mostly know RB from YT so take with lot of salt please). You can fly a bit with engine damaged but your engine will start loosing power much quicker and lack of instructor means that suddenly your ability is reduced a lot (assuming say part of the wing blackened). In RB you might see plane rolling/turning/etc to one side better than the other when damaged. in SB you have to constantly fight the imbalance with stick/rudder input. This means that suddenly you not only miss part of your lift and have higher drab but there is one additional big factor to take into account when flying "on edge"

I often see my enemies crashing 20-30s after my attack even despite damage looking minor at best.
Same for engine. Maps are bigger and if he die because of engine failure you will get kill most of the time. Of course there is risk of someone stealing your kill but to be fair - it's often not worth the risk.
 

Edited by przybysz86
medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, IdahoBookworm said:

You Axis flyers don't seem to appreciate how good you've got it. :D

 

Nah they usually cry and whine and want to eliminate any kind of competition to get kill as easy as possible.

I have even seen Germans complaining about American 109 F4 for being OP rather than being traitor.

They don't like to fight against their own weapons.

They rather have P-47 trying to out turn a Bf 109 and if the P-47 isn't as dumb as they except and utilizes its strengths it is called OP just because it goes straight. 

medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, AdelWolf said:

Nah they usually cry and whine and want to eliminate any kind of competition to get kill as easy as possible.

I have even seen Germans complaining about American 109 F4 for being OP rather than being traitor.

They don't like to fight against their own weapons.

They rather have P-47 trying to out turn a Bf 109 and if the P-47 isn't as dumb as they except and utilizes its strengths it is called OP just because it goes straight. 

"BUT YOU USE DAH AIRFIELD ZOOMG TURN FIGHT ME!"

 

 

  • Haha 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 06/10/2020 at 03:36, Daffan said:

Why are people who never play SB posting here, especially a guy who has .5 k/d in 51' D5 in RB where you can start shooting from 1.5km away with .50 cal (Which is impossible in SB)... apparently its also "OP" regarding damage he says;

Yeah I used to take out my 51D into ground RB for some ground pounding and some intercepting with my 7.7 lineup which didnt always go too well. So yeah.

medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, something regarding buffing 50cals doesnt restrict itself to a specific game mode. So complaining about people commenting about how 50cals perform in game modes which arent SB is kinda dumb imo, but anyways, ive had my share of WT for the next year or so, im outta here.

medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 months later...

I think the 50 cal is absolutely fine. In rb you can sometimes start shooting at 2 km and in sim at 1 km.

 

You can't do that with any other weapon:)

medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Celestiale said:

50cals are completely fine, they shred through aircraft in a matter of seconds. I've had several kills with one burst the past few days. If anything, i'd say they are too strong. 

Also dont get a thread asking for .5 cals to be stronger...they are probably the best aircraft weapons in the game until midtiers...

 

You have a great rate of fire and above average destructive power...it is possible to fire VERY LONG BURSTS and a couple hits will cripple almost any aircraft...

As any weapon...you can find occurrences where something failed...but in general usage .5 cals are a formidable weapon...particularly for bad players as aiming and ammo saving are less important...

 

As someone said above...you can use them to SNIPE (which is odd with a MG) targets at 1km+...as you have lots of ammo and a good rof...you just aim the best you can and then wiggle it a bit...often you get hits...and if you do, damage will also be substantial...

I am bad at aiming...and could get such kills with .5 cals on occasion...way more than a few...

 

I am not an expert...so it MAY be possible that the DAMAGE models are correct and so on...but as discussed elsewhere...the game AIMING SYSTEM makes ALL weapons far more efficient than they were IRL...and the effect is more visible on weapons with big ROFs...like .5 cals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, chmooreck said:

@[email protected] are You aware we are in SIM subsection ?

Not really. SORRY. I answered to a "All Activity" post :facepalm:

In my defense...weapon models are the same on all modes... :lol2:...so any change will impact all modes.

(I think AB has additional modifiers...but model is the same)

 

 

But for the sake of argument...what changes in SIM? (really asking...curiosity)

I am ASSUMING the ROF and ammo count are still a great advantage...although 1km snipes will be tougher to do...no markers ;)

 

.5 cals are the best weapon in AB and RB...not in SIM?

(i admit i dont play SIM)

Edited by [email protected]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, [email protected] said:

Not really. SORRY. I answered to a "All Activity" post :facepalm:

In my defense...weapon models are the same on all modes... :lol2:...so any change will impact all modes.

(I think AB has additional modifiers...but model is the same)

 

 

But for the sake of argument...what changes in SIM? (really asking...curiosity)

I am ASSUMING the ROF and ammo count are still a great advantage...although 1km snipes will be tougher to do...no markers ;)

 

.5 cals are the best weapon in AB and RB...not in SIM?

(i admit i dont play SIM)

You dont have instructor so you have to deal with forces acting on your plane manually. Engine torque and damage as well. 

 

For example, in RB, when taking off you takeoff straight without much problem. In SB, the engine torque caused by your prop spinning to one side pulls you to that side, so you have to use opposite rudder to keep the plane straight. 

 

In RB, if your wingtip is clipped, you may still fly straight because instructor helps, you just point mouse and it does the rest. In SB, wingtip is clipped, you rudder opposite and trim if you can while trying to keep your plane straight with ailerons and elevator.

 

Also, typically we engage at shorter ranges, for example, ive set my convergance at 300m. 

 

Others prefer 200m. I never open up past 500m. Also cockpit view only. 

 

Id agree .50 cals are best in SB. The Swedish guns are tied as well. 

medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another muff asks to strengthen the machine guns already OP into the trash that will damage no worse than 30mm caliber in real life. In your own video, you ripped out the flap and messerschmitt with 12.7 rounds WITHOUT EXPLOSIVE, but definitely no damage. 12.7 Browning is now steeper in damage than some 20mm cannons, the damage to the aircraft skin is simply inadequate, the wings turn black after 3-4 hits, which is physically impossible without explosives, but of course there is no damage. 

 

Spoiler

It's even funnier that in this thread they started talking about the accuracy of shooting in Sim mode, completely forgetting about the damage here, I almost died laughing :lol2:.

DM in the game is one for all modes, as well as the damage of all weapons! So it is inappropriate to say that the RBs are wrong! in RB, due to more accurate shooting, this inadequate damage to aircraft is clearly visible when 1 short salvo is enough to crush the fighter to a non-combat state and finish off the engine fire

 

medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Browning M2s don't need a buff. They are among the best HMG available, with very efficient rounds (m23, m20) . It's certainly one of the best weapons up to EC4.

They just don't fit the "90º mach 0.8 14G deflection insta-kill" style as well as the mg151; they are unlikely to one-tap. Convergence is an issue as well.

  • Haha 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 5 weeks later...
On 12/01/2021 at 19:38, Pinguim01 said:

Browning M2s don't need a buff. They are among the best HMG available, with very efficient rounds (m23, m20) . It's certainly one of the best weapons up to EC4.

They just don't fit the "90º mach 0.8 14G deflection insta-kill" style as well as the mg151; they are unlikely to one-tap. Convergence is an issue as well.

LOL. Fact is, to put it simply, .50 cals bring no HE component to the table. And in this game, HE damage against aircraft is strong... A single hit of a german mk151 mineshell will get a big AOE yellow/orange'd out on a plane. As such, we can safely expect the required gun time on target to kill to be higher while using .50cals. Luckily for us, these bullets have an insanely high muzzle velocity with very minimal bullet drop, making for some of the best long range gun weaponry in the game.

 

All in all, I'm more than happy with the American's .50 cals myself. 

medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...