Pope_Shizzle

Where is the Skill in Clubbing Seals?

Seriously.  Why do so many people play 3-4 planes for 10,000 battles just clubbing everything because the plane is beyond broken?  I'm talking to all you BF-109 F4 and F4/trop players.  And why are those broken **** planes still at 4.0?  I've ran into at least 2 dozen people with 20:1 KDR's in those planes.  I get it.  You like shooting people down.  But where is the challenge? 

 

Whatever.  Yes, I'm salty.  Sue me.  :D

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9 hours ago, Pope_Shizzle said:

Seriously.  Why do so many people play 3-4 planes for 10,000 battles just clubbing everything because the plane is beyond broken?  I'm talking to all you BF-109 F4 and F4/trop players.  And why are those broken **** planes still at 4.0?  I've ran into at least 2 dozen people with 20:1 KDR's in those planes.  I get it.  You like shooting people down.  But where is the challenge? 

 

Whatever.  Yes, I'm salty.  Sue me.  :D

It's not just cause that plane is really good but mostly cause most other planes got ruined by Gaijin through the years, a few years ago I would rather fly any Spitfire over any 109 until they ruined them, or some soviet planes over anything else until they also got ruined, or some other japanes planes until again Gaijin decided to nerf their guns to useless levels, now I basically only use some of those planes when I'm forced in some events. About their BR, if you're gonna keep raising it's BR cause of how good they perform then we all will end facing cold war jets on them, and I don't think that would be good for the game since I don't want to play WW2 planes against cold war jets and I'm sure many think the same way, the solution is to make the other planes as good as they once were and stop manipulating the game as Gaijin has been doing through the years.

I also hate 109 F-4s when I'm playing something else cause it reminds me of how good other planes that I also love were and how they are right now, if you play 5.0-6.0 you'll see many players just using 109 F-4s as first plane although it's at least 1.0 BR lower.

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There is no challenge to be found in Air Arcade. You'll rarely run into decent dog fighters and nobody seems to care about the objective (for good reasons). I don't see why anyone shouldn't treat Air Arcade like the sandbox that it de-facto is and don't think there is anything wrong with players.toying around with the best fighters in game. Unfortunately Gaijin decided to nerf almost all other good fighters so much they simply aren't competitive anymore. When it comes to dog-fights it has been the Bf 109 flavor of the month for many years now.

 

Buff the Russian flight models a tad over all and I will play them again. Make the British planes sturdier and perhaps give the Hispano cannons a little buff and I will fly them again.Perhaps allow stiffer planes like the Fw 190s and many US-fighters to retain energy a bit better so they can be used more efficiently in a BnZ role to make up for their lacking energy fighting capabilities. There are a lot of things that could be done to make other planes viable, but for whatever reason Gaijin seems to have put Air Arcade related problems on the back burner about 3-5 years ago and kept it there ever since.

 

 

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5 hours ago, [email protected] said:

It's not just cause that plane is really good but mostly cause most other planes got ruined by Gaijin through the years, a few years ago I would rather fly any Spitfire over any 109 until they ruined them, or some soviet planes over anything else until they also got ruined, or some other japanes planes until again Gaijin decided to nerf their guns to useless levels, now I basically only use some of those planes when I'm forced in some events. About their BR, if you're gonna keep raising it's BR cause of how good they perform then we all will end facing cold war jets on them, and I don't think that would be good for the game since I don't want to play WW2 planes against cold war jets and I'm sure many think the same way, the solution is to make the other planes as good as they once were and stop manipulating the game as Gaijin has been doing through the years.

I also hate 109 F-4s when I'm playing something else cause it reminds me of how good other planes that I also love were and how they are right now, if you play 5.0-6.0 you'll see many players just using 109 F-4s as first plane although it's at least 1.0 BR lower.

And that is the thing I never understood about your clan (and the others that do more or less the same).

Many of you are good pilots but you nearly only take out the FOTMs, racking up kills. 

Even while you say it feels hollow and boring.

 

I always got my fun from getting everything to work in WT while upgrading it or by flying underdogs.

Show me your 10:1 on an 109F4 and I will just say meh. Just can't take it serious. Leads often enough to not taking you guys serious in the fight, because your behavior in game is very predictable and exploitable.

Show a good killcount on something like an He 112B, F4F, Yak 9UT, Boomerang, Whirlwind and similar planes to me and I will acknowledge your skill.

Other things are more like saying "I am good" to yourself for me. :dntknw:

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15 hours ago, Pope_Shizzle said:

Seriously.  Why do so many people play 3-4 planes for 10,000 battles just clubbing everything because the plane is beyond broken?  I'm talking to all you BF-109 F4 and F4/trop players.  And why are those broken **** planes still at 4.0?  I've ran into at least 2 dozen people with 20:1 KDR's in those planes.  I get it.  You like shooting people down.  But where is the challenge? 

 

Whatever.  Yes, I'm salty.  Sue me.  :D

There are quite a few planes in game that have too low BR's that need adjustment they ruin certain tiers for new players we should create a topic specifically with a poll for BR adjustment of certain aircraft deemed OP but BR compression needs to also be resolved

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1 hour ago, anyuser said:

And that is the thing I never understood about your clan (and the others that do more or less the same).

Many of you are good pilots but you nearly only take out the FOTMs, racking up kills. 

Even while you say it feels hollow and boring.

J-21/A-21s are probably the biggest seal clubber's FOTM in the game for months now and mine are stock, how many seal clubbers use it? :dntknw:
It's still not as boring as climbing to space and spend the match chasing those FOTM planes but too afraid to dive on them.

 

2 hours ago, anyuser said:

I always got my fun from getting everything to work in WT while upgrading it or by flying underdogs.

Show me your 10:1 on an 109F4 and I will just say meh. Just can't take it serious. Leads often enough to not taking you guys serious in the fight, because your behavior in game is very predictable and exploitable.

Show a good killcount on something like an He 112B, F4F, Yak 9UT, Boomerang, Whirlwind and similar planes to me and I will acknowledge your skill.

Other things are more like saying "I am good" to yourself for me. :dntknw:

I always got my fun by trying to get the biggest amount of kills without dying, and I try to do the same on any plane, why would you think players that like to use 109s can't do good in other planes?

Good luck with "stats","tags","icons",etc... they surely can tell much about skill. ;) 

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6 hours ago, anyuser said:

And that is the thing I never understood about your clan (and the others that do more or less the same).

Many of you are good pilots but you nearly only take out the FOTMs, racking up kills. 

Even while you say it feels hollow and boring.

The problem is, there just isn't enough good planes anymore in this game for air arcade (especially past 4.7) to be very fun except at low tier. I'll list some of the good ole planes I was yearning to play before they got nerfed to hell.

 

La-9: Energy retention is nonexistent now, plus the fact it got its engine nerfed so it can't compete with 109 Gs anymore like it used to

La-7: Shvaks suck, plus iirc it got its turn rate nerfed so it no longer can compete against the 109 F-4.

Yak-9T: Rudder bleeds a ton of speed, but otherwise it is usable until you realize that your elevator won't save you from anyone that has an inkling of a brain. 190s can just extend away due to being faster, and better turning fighters can easily kill you quickly.

Yak-9P: Same problem, except on a heavier airframe which means it takes longer to recover from maneuvers.

Fw 190 D-9: The rudder used to be insane on that thing. Well now its a complete brick. Yes you still roll like a cheese wheel but that's not enough to be competitive.

J2M3: Guns suck. That's all Im gonna say.

F8F-1B: No turn, no energy retention, no rudder stability. Only thing left is the guns and they are somewhat unreliable now as well.

Cannonstang: Hispanos suck, plus your top speed is now kinda trash. This thing used to be the low altitude king at 4.0 and now it's just cannon fodder, which is just sad.

All spitfires and seafires: No energy retention whatsoever, plus from the Mk IX on they lose a ton of turning at low speeds which further wrecks their usability in the meta.

Ki-43-III: Ho-5s are even worse than shvaks, by like a lot.

MiG-3: Terrible energy retention and is a complete brick. At least the guns are nice. Not you though 3-34, you got shvaks.

 

I could go on and on, but the problem lies in there's not enough good planes anymore to really have a balanced game. I'd play the hell out of the russians if I could, I'd play the bearcats, I'd play the spits, I'd play the late Japanese, etc etc etc, but now the only way to really have fun for me personally is to fly the few balanced planes left in this game (Ki-61 hei, G.55) or meta planes (P-47D, J2M2, Bf 109s)

 

However there is a third option

 

Low tier air arcade (1.0-2.7)

 

There, most fighters are insanely broken, but that actually is a good thing because it creates a balanced matchmaker. VG33 vs re2001cn. The VG has unrealistic energy retention, but the CN has better initial turn, better flaps, and better guns. Spitfire Mk 1a vs CW21. Both have somewhat bad energy retention, but the CW is better at turning while the spit is faster in a straight line. That is honestly where I have the most fun in this game right now, just because it is a balanced matchmaker where every nation has something fun to play.

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16 hours ago, ____B00K3NDS____ said:

That's the fun :) 

 

^^ This is the correct attitude. 

 

Pick your favorite sports hero. I'm betting every single one has honor for the game and, at least during the combat or competition, respect for the opponent - just as a hunter does for the deer or prey he kills. I'm guessing many of our sports heroes, those we pay to watch or relax on couches and praise, have a killer instinct. Really spend some time and think about what it must take to be a person in such shoes - not the top 1%, not the top 1% of the top 1%, but the best on planet - 1 in billions.

 

(With exception of course, no cheaters e.g. Lance Armstrong, Bonds/McGwire/Sosa/Clemens/A-Rod/Pete Rose, Ben Johnson in Track & Field or much of the Russian Olympic team over the last 10 years, etc., basically all cheaters).

 

Show no pity for the weak. Have no mercy. Be a cyborg.

Your task, whether a science or an art form, is to slaughter the animals and be the best you can be. Or not.... and be a victim of your own psychology.

 

 

 

 

Edited by xxKUNG_FUxx
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Allow me to present a list:

 

- P-51

-F8F-1

-F8F-1b

-La-5FN

-La-7

La-7B-20

La-9

Yak-9T

Yak-9P

FW-190A-4

Spitfire 2b

Spitfire LF.IX

Griffon spits etc.

C.202EC

G.56

Re.2005

Ki-84 Otsu

Ki-84 Ko

Ki-84 Hei

Ki-43-III

A7M2

N1K

etc...

 

What do all these have in common? They used to be competitive against 109s, not just as in "Maybe I can kill them if I get lucky", but as in compete on an equal footing. What happened to these? Either their flight model, guns or BR got changed so that they are no fully competitive. The Bearcat used to have excellent speed, turning, climb, energy retention and guns. It was - as it is in real life -  the ultimate prop fighter. After Gaijin worked their magic, all it has now is climb and guns. One wrong move, and you're dead. The Ki-84 Hei used to have great flight characteristics and some the best prop guns in the game. Now, it sits at 6.7 (same BR at the F-84 lol) and gets stomped by jets. The La series still have good performance, but they simply can't kill anything, thanks to their borderline-useless guns.

 

Can good pilots still get good scores in these aircraft? Sure, some of the ones on this list have had many 20 or even 30+ scores after they were nerfed. The problem is, even a below-average pilot in an 109 or J2M, who has no idea about the basics of dueling, or even rudder-turning, can kill you with (minimal) effort once they get a simple energy advantage.

 

So, why don't the top pilots fly these once-great planes all the time? After all, it should be a fun challenge, right? Well first of all, the best pilots can still fly these and get good scores. However, this is more the exception than the reality. Getting swarmed by 3 players under level 15 and losing, because you cant hold energy, wobble around like a frisbee, or simply cant kill your enemies, is extremely frustrating. And in a game with crazy rng, huge grinds and stressful crafting events (another one coming up, i'm glad gaijin listens to community feedback), another bad experience is the last thing we need. And getting killed by a swarm of inexperienced players, through no fault of your own, but simply because your plane failed you, is not something any of us care to repeat many times.

 

Lets look at the planes that can still compete with 109s (not just situationally good planes or low tier seal clubbers, but actually on an even footing).

 

-Ki-61 Hei

-J2M2

-J2M3

-J2M5

-Yak-3 (usually)

And of course, lets not forget other 109s:

Bf 109F-4

Bf 109F-4/trop 

Bf 109F-4 (American)

Bf 109G-2

Bf 109G-2/trop

Bf 109G-2 (Romanian)

Bf 109G-2 (Hungarian)

Bf 109G-6

Bf 109G-10

Bf 109G-14

Bf 109G-14/AS

Bf 109K-4

 

Do we wish that there was more variety? Of course. But to put it simply, the reason those from my clan, from erekt, from smea and other top clans mainly fly 109s and J2Ms isn't to mindlessly club seals (and spamming out F4s and G2s does get boring, trust me), but because they are the only planes left that can be flown out against random players with a decent chance of using your years of skill and experience to reliably score high-kill games. This stale and boring meta is causing veteran players, with many tournament wins and thousands of hours to quit the game. And unfortunately, until there is a greater variety of competitive planes, I can't see this changing anytime soon.

 

Edited by willcliff
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19 hours ago, [email protected] said:

J-21/A-21s are probably the biggest seal clubber's FOTM in the game for months now and mine are stock, how many seal clubbers use it? :dntknw:
It's still not as boring as climbing to space and spend the match chasing those FOTM planes but too afraid to dive on them.

 

I always got my fun by trying to get the biggest amount of kills without dying, and I try to do the same on any plane, why would you think players that like to use 109s can't do good in other planes?

Good luck with "stats","tags","icons",etc... they surely can tell much about skill. ;) 

The 21s only got good guns but beside that it is a bad plane.

You can't name that one FOTM, when you targets have to behave like clay pidgions (sadly that is what most players do though).

 

And for sure you didn't tried it on "any" plane.

Just looking on how many planes you have fully upgraded and looking of what planes you have flown how often...

For me it is much more fun racking up kills with less good planes (not realy bad ones like the Do 217J or something like that).

 

 

15 hours ago, ____Lexing____ said:

The problem is, there just isn't enough good planes anymore in this game for air arcade (especially past 4.7) to be very fun except at low tier. I'll list some of the good ole planes I was yearning to play before they got nerfed to hell.

 

La-9: Energy retention is nonexistent now, plus the fact it got its engine nerfed so it can't compete with 109 Gs anymore like it used to

La-7: Shvaks suck, plus iirc it got its turn rate nerfed so it no longer can compete against the 109 F-4.

Yak-9T: Rudder bleeds a ton of speed, but otherwise it is usable until you realize that your elevator won't save you from anyone that has an inkling of a brain. 190s can just extend away due to being faster, and better turning fighters can easily kill you quickly.

Yak-9P: Same problem, except on a heavier airframe which means it takes longer to recover from maneuvers.

Fw 190 D-9: The rudder used to be insane on that thing. Well now its a complete brick. Yes you still roll like a cheese wheel but that's not enough to be competitive.

J2M3: Guns suck. That's all Im gonna say.

F8F-1B: No turn, no energy retention, no rudder stability. Only thing left is the guns and they are somewhat unreliable now as well.

Cannonstang: Hispanos suck, plus your top speed is now kinda trash. This thing used to be the low altitude king at 4.0 and now it's just cannon fodder, which is just sad.

All spitfires and seafires: No energy retention whatsoever, plus from the Mk IX on they lose a ton of turning at low speeds which further wrecks their usability in the meta.

Ki-43-III: Ho-5s are even worse than shvaks, by like a lot.

MiG-3: Terrible energy retention and is a complete brick. At least the guns are nice. Not you though 3-34, you got shvaks.

 

I could go on and on, but the problem lies in there's not enough good planes anymore to really have a balanced game. I'd play the hell out of the russians if I could, I'd play the bearcats, I'd play the spits, I'd play the late Japanese, etc etc etc, but now the only way to really have fun for me personally is to fly the few balanced planes left in this game (Ki-61 hei, G.55) or meta planes (P-47D, J2M2, Bf 109s)

 

However there is a third option

 

Low tier air arcade (1.0-2.7)

 

There, most fighters are insanely broken, but that actually is a good thing because it creates a balanced matchmaker. VG33 vs re2001cn. The VG has unrealistic energy retention, but the CN has better initial turn, better flaps, and better guns. Spitfire Mk 1a vs CW21. Both have somewhat bad energy retention, but the CW is better at turning while the spit is faster in a straight line. That is honestly where I have the most fun in this game right now, just because it is a balanced matchmaker where every nation has something fun to play.

 

I know that those planes have been better in the past, but who cares?

It sounds more like you simply just want to fly the "best" plane and thats it. It might sound a bit harsh, but it does not read like the self esteem many people think your clan got because of their skills.

It more sounds like the opposite.

The only thing you try is to justify why you can only fly the 109 by telling, it is the best and you only can do it with the best.

 

But Mig-3? Come on, the HMG Mig-3s are THE sealclubers at their BR. When I was flying the 15 out with more experience I was like 20:1 when it comes to K/D (just looking at that time), often enough with close to 20 kills (end then the match ended to Su-2s or F-222 or something similar...).

Wasn't enough to outdo my stupidy of the past though.

 

That thing is a beast and is able to eat He 100, 109E and P-36/H-75 alive, when flown to its strengh (and I don't mean altitude).

 

3 hours ago, willcliff said:

So, why don't the top pilots fly these once-great planes all the time? After all, it should be a fun challenge, right? Well first of all, the best pilots can still fly these and get good scores. However, this is more the exception than the reality. Getting swarmed by 3 players under level 15 and losing, because you cant hold energy, wobble around like a frisbee, or simply cant kill your enemies, is extremely frustrating. And in a game with crazy rng, huge grinds and stressful crafting events (another one coming up, i'm glad gaijin listens to community feedback), another bad experience is the last thing we need. And getting killed by a swarm of inexperienced players, through no fault of your own, but simply because your plane failed you, is not something any of us care to repeat many times.

I can understand takeing the easy route for events.

Back in the days Gaijin got a killevent with T2 as border. It was the time the Hurricane MKIV was very low level. Those dual 40mm oneshoots of biplanes were fun - for me.

But events are events and not the usualy game all the time.


But the other part.

I think you have finished grinding the part of the tree you can grind with your FOTM prop planes without a huge XP malus.

I have killed to many of those half decent pilots in their FOTMs to take the rest serious.

I don't know if you need to get your self esteem from the K/D of your planes, leaving the match when you can't push it even further (I know there are such people), I do not.

It is AB after all. A mode with a deck of up to 11 planes with 2 spawns for every player in the match. I will willingly sacrifice a plane any moment, when I think it would benefit myself.

 

But for me it is the most fun to shoot down a "good" plane with a "bad" plane.

If I get killed later on - I couldn't care less. In AB you can be jumped anytime.

 

3 hours ago, willcliff said:

 

Lets look at the planes that can still compete with 109s (not just situationally good planes or low tier seal clubbers, but actually on an even footing).

 

 

-Ki-61 Hei

-J2M2

-J2M3

-J2M5

-Yak-3 (usually)

And of course, lets not forget other 109s:

Bf 109F-4

Bf 109F-4/trop 

Bf 109F-4 (American)

Bf 109G-2

Bf 109G-2/trop

Bf 109G-2 (Romanian)

Bf 109G-2 (Hungarian)

Bf 109G-6

Bf 109G-10

Bf 109G-14

Bf 109G-14/AS

Bf 109K-4

Against same BR 109

 

P-47D-28 (at last that one)

P-47M

P-51D-30

P-51H (when I was upgrading that one, none 109 ever was able to get me...)

Mig-3-15

He 100

F4U1A (well one of the most undertired planes of the game...) and the USMC one.

F4U1D

Ki-44 (I know the guns are bad, but no 109 E or early F will ever be able to get you off of her tail)

CW-21 (that thing is a joke...)

H-75

VG-33

Mörkö-Morane

Pyörremyrsky

 

And those are just planes, that can deal with a same BR 109 compareable quick.


I know that some can be seen as low tier sealclubers, as the 109E1.

But the 109F4 can be seen the same way at its current state.

 

Btw,

It is interesting, that you only named energy fighting planes that are used like an 109.

 

4 hours ago, willcliff said:

Of course. But to put it simply, the reason those from my clan, from erekt, from smea and other top clans mainly fly 109s and J2Ms isn't to mindlessly club seals (and spamming out F4s and G2s does get boring, trust me), but because they are the only planes left that can be flown out against random players with a decent chance of using your years of skill and experience to reliably score high-kill games.

It is your own choice to do something out of the box.

And to be honest, your high kill count games are very flat, when only done by the best of the best planes. Even more because you not realy rely on good dogfighting and skills but more often on baiting idiots at the spawn, often enough as a team.

I don't know where the importance for you comes from, but outside of your clans, don't expect to much streetcred for pulling those things off with the planes you named as "good". 

 

It is more like the opposide and I saw people joking about you, when again some Pro100 showed up in their 109, trying to raid the spawn.

And if there are no jokes, it is at best a "*sigh* those guys again..."

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4 hours ago, anyuser said:

Mig-3-15

He 100

F4U1A (well one of the most undertired planes of the game...) and the USMC one.

F4U1D

Ki-44 (I know the guns are bad, but no 109 E or early F will ever be able to get you off of her tail)

CW-21 (that thing is a joke...)

H-75

VG-33

Mörkö-Morane

these are all 2.7 or lower sealclubbers. fun, but no match against a good 109 pilot

 

4 hours ago, anyuser said:

P-47D-28 (at last that one)

P-47M

P-51D-30

P-51H (when I was upgrading that one, none 109 ever was able to get me...)

D28 is 4.0 now. gets clapped by f4s

47M is good like the 190D-9, situationally

d30 has terrible energy retention and can’t rudder turn 

51h is good, still not gonna do much vs a good f4 pilot focusing you

 

and no, i don’t care about KD. Just looks at my stat card. Neither kpf, i will respawn multiple times in one match ( it’s a game after all, supposed to have fun)

 

do you understand the basics of rudder turning? it is what makes the 109s stand out from the pack so much

Edited by willcliff
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On 17/09/2020 at 05:03, Pope_Shizzle said:

Why do so many people play 3-4 planes for 10,000 battles just clubbing everything because the plane is beyond broken?

 

If you ask me WarThunder cultivated these type of players over the years with all their decisions and design philosophy. Let ULQ as an advantage slide, let sound mods as an advantage slide, make spawn camping the norm for your gameplay, ignore a cheater problem as long as you can, keep j-out baiting shenanigans, sell strictly better-than-tech-tree premiums, introduce clearly overpowered aircrafts (or tanks) one by one without reasonable competitors for a while. And a few other things.....

 

Lets just say you attract and keep a certain type of player in your playerbase with such an attitude towards your game and you drive away another kind of playertype. 

Edited by AcceptYourDeath
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39 minutes ago, willcliff said:

these are all 2.7 or lower sealclubbers. fun, but no match against a good 109 pilot

They are a very hard match for any 109 at the same or similar BR the moment you don't try to fly them like an 109 but to their strengh.

Doesn't help much if you refuse to fly them though...

 

Always like how "pros" judge planes they never have flown on their own.

 

41 minutes ago, willcliff said:

D28 is 4.0 now. gets clapped by f4s

47M is good like the 190D-9, situationally

d30 has terrible energy retention and can’t rudder turn 

51h is good, still not gonna do much vs a good f4 pilot focusing you

You are better with the D28 then with the F4.

And the D28 was meeting the F4 for a long time now. It was 3.7 before and F4 was a sure match.

When the 28 was at 3.3, the F4 was at 3.7. 90% of your matches you were meeting an F4. Not much has changed.

Hell, the 109F4 even gets problems with the P-51C at med altitude high speed fighting, because in any prolonged slight dive it will redline much earlyer loosing energy.

You pretend everybody is flying on your terms like the 109 does like it. But why should I do so.

Enough might feed themself to you. Bud judging planes on that...

 

You havn't flown the 47M at all...

It climbs just slightly worse then the F4 while being much faster then even the K4. And it got a way better high speed control then any 109. You don't do the stuff with it you do with the 109, but you can do other nice things.

 

And you are not good at all with the P-51.
To be honest, even a K4 can't catch up to a P-51H. When it gained it speed it is untouchable and can boom and zoom the **** out of any 109. Simply because it is a freaking jet with a prop. At last thats the way to use it. But it even can climb away from any 109.

It is the currently strongest prop in game and you can't use it after 150 flyouts. You might have "mastered" the style of fighting of the 109 and this way the planes that fly like the 109.

But that seems to be all...

 

1 hour ago, willcliff said:

and no, i don’t care about KD. Just looks at my stat card. Neither kpf, i will respawn multiple times in one match ( it’s a game after all, supposed to have fun)

 

do you understand the basics of rudder turning? it is what makes the 109s stand out from the pack so much

I use ruder turn on my own...

I use spiral climbs on my own.

I use rope a dopes on my own.

I use yo-yos on my own.

When I have to do so.

 

And I know the planes I can use that way and the planes I have to use in another way and how to react if somebody tries that with me.

Just saying, an A6M2 can follow a spiral climbing 109 keeping the same distance and forbidding any kind of attack for a long time...

 

Why should I fly on your terms, so your rudder turning can be used to full effect, if I can negate it with flying my plane to its strengh.

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34 minutes ago, anyuser said:

Just saying, an A6M2 can follow a spiral climbing 109 keeping the same distance and forbidding any kind of attack for a long time...

This would require the 109 to play like a fool even then the zero's cannons will fail it and you'll most likely crit the 109 with machine gun fire stealth belts being the best choice kinda ridiculous that you have to rely on the machine guns to finish off a target

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On 16/09/2020 at 22:03, Pope_Shizzle said:

Seriously.  Why do so many people play 3-4 planes for 10,000 battles just clubbing everything because the plane is beyond broken?  I'm talking to all you BF-109 F4 and F4/trop players.  And why are those broken **** planes still at 4.0?  I've ran into at least 2 dozen people with 20:1 KDR's in those planes.  I get it.  You like shooting people down.  But where is the challenge? 

 

Whatever.  Yes, I'm salty.  Sue me.  :D

Maybe they're grinding wagers.

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1 hour ago, anyuser said:

Always like how "pros" judge planes they never have flown on their own.

I have flown every lowtier plane on that list. I have no problem killing early f and e 109s, f4 and up are the problem.

 

2 hours ago, anyuser said:

You are better with the D28 then with the F4.

Yes, I have bad stats in the f4 because of years of being a bad pilot. I consistently got better games in the f4 than in the 3.7 d28. I also have a kd of 30 on my second account. stats are meaningless

 

2 hours ago, anyuser said:

Hell, the 109F4 even gets problems with the P-51C at med altitude high speed fighting

please tell me this is a joke

2 hours ago, anyuser said:

And you are not good at all with the P-51.
To be honest, even a K4 can't catch up to a P-51H. When it gained it speed it is untouchable and can boom and zoom the **** out of any 109. Simply because it is a freaking jet with a prop. At last thats the way to use it. But it even can climb away from any 109.

Haven't really flown it in over a year. If i did, i don't doubt i could pull 11+ kill without too much effort. Again, stats are meaningless. Best prop in rb? Sure. Arcade? Nope, it doesnt fit the meta well enough. E-retention and guns arent on par with 109s

2 hours ago, anyuser said:

Just saying, an A6M2 can follow a spiral climbing 109 keeping the same distance and forbidding any kind of attack for a long time...

dont try this vs a good pilot, you will die

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3 hours ago, anyuser said:

To be honest, even a K4 can't catch up to a P-51H. When it gained it speed it is untouchable and can boom and zoom the **** out of any 109. Simply because it is a freaking jet with a prop. At last thats the way to use it. But it even can climb away from any 109.

 

The problem is, the K-4 got buffed last patch

 

The engine power was upped so now it generally is faster than the P-51H. Yes the mustang will get away in the long run but if you do any maneuver at all the K-4 can easily catch you due to the absurd acceleration. Currently the only threat the K-4 faces are other 109s, especially the 109 G-2, and Kikkas/F-84s. Nothing else is able to challenge it on anywhere close to an even footing.

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1 hour ago, Pope_Shizzle said:

I just want to say that I made this thread tongue in cheek when I was a little salty, but am pleasantly surprised at how interesting a discussion is happening here.  Faith in WT forums is somewhat restored.

 

Pretty sure I could lend a hand in reducing that faith if you'd like.

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