Mirage F1 Main Thread

[Trotrodor 2,670]

The Mirage F1C

 

Now that War thunder is Officially introducing Fox 1 Missiles,and now that some aircraft like the F4 have access to RWR and Flares, it is time to ask for the True competitor to the F 4 Phantom :

The Mirage F1

 

History

Spoiler

The Mirage F1 emerged from a series of design studies performed by French aircraft manufacturer Dassault Aviation. Having originally sought to develop a larger swept wing derivative of the Mirage III, which became the Mirage F2, to serve as a vertical take-off and landing (VTOL) propulsion testbed akin to the Dassault Mirage IIIV, however, it was soon recognised that the emerging design could function as the basis for a competent fighter as well. Both the Mirage F2 and a smaller derivative, referred to the Mirage F3, received substantial attention from both Dassault and the French Air Force, the latter being interested in its adoption as a long-range fighter bomber as a stopgap measure prior to the adoption of the envisioned Anglo-French Variable Geometry (AFVG) strike aircraft.

Parallel with the Mirage F3 study, which was intended to serve as an interceptor aircraft, Dassault decided to study a single-seat derivative which featured the all-French SNECMA Atar 9K-50 turbojet engine. As a result of the cancellation of two major projects, the company's design team found themselves with a decreased workload. Accordingly, in mid-1964, Dassault decided to commence design work on the smaller aircraft, subsequently designated as the Mirage F1, with the intention of producing a successor to its Mirage III and Mirage 5 fighters; This work was performed under a government contract in anticipation of a potential French Air Force specification for an all-weather interceptor to succeed its fleet of Mirage IIIC aircraft.

The Mirage F1 was of similar size to the delta-winged Mirage III and Mirage 5, and was powered by the same SNECMA Atar engine as had been used on the larger Dassault Mirage IV; however, unlike its predecessors, it shared the layout of a swept wing mounted high on the fuselage and a conventional tail surface as used by the F2. Although it has a smaller wingspan than the Mirage III, the Mirage F1 nevertheless proved to be superior to its predecessor, carrying more fuel while possessing a shorter take-off run and superior maneuverability.

On 23 December 1966, the first prototype conducted its maiden flight. The first flight had been delayed due to a funding shortage affecting the overall programme. During its fourth flight, the prototype was recorded as having attained a top speed in excess of Mach 2. On 18 May 1967, the first prototype was lost in an accident at DGA Essais en vol, Istres; the crash had resulted from a loss of control after encountering flutter, killing its pilot. Despite this misfortune, during late 1966, the Mirage F1 programme was officially adopted by the French Air Force. Following a redesign period, on 20 March 1967, the second prototype performed its first flight.

On 26 May 1967, an order for three Mirage F1 prototypes was placed, while the larger and more expensive Mirage F2 was formally abandoned. These three pre-service aircraft, along with a static structural test airframe, soon joined the test programme. By late 1971, the construction of an initial batch of 85 production standard Mirage F1 had been authorised.

In order to comply with the French Air Force's requirement for an all-weather interceptor, the first production Mirage F1C was equipped with a Thomson-CSF Cyrano IV radar system. The later Cyrano IV-1 version added a limited look-down capability. However, Mirage F1 pilots reported that the radar was prone to overheating, which reduced its efficiency.[citation needed] During May 1973, the first deliveries to the French Air Force took place; the type entered squadron service with EC 2/30 Normandie-Niemen in December of that year.

By October 1971, the Mirage F1 was under production at both Dassault's Bordeaux facility and at SABCA's own plant in Belgium, work at the latter having been performed under an industrial arrangement associated to Belgium's order for 106 Mirage 5 aircraft. The 79 aircraft of the next production run were delivered during the period March 1977 to December 1983. These were of the Mirage F1C-200 version, which featured a fixed refuelling probe, which required an extension of the fuselage by 7 cm.

 

Specification

Spoiler

General characteristics

    Crew: 1
    Length: 15.3 m (50 ft 2 in)
    Wingspan: 8.4 m (27 ft 7 in)
    Height: 4.5 m (14 ft 9 in)
    Wing area: 25 m2 (270 sq ft)
    Empty weight: 7,400 kg (16,314 lb)
    Gross weight: 10,900 kg (24,030 lb) (clean take-off weight)
    Max takeoff weight: 16,200 kg (35,715 lb)
    Powerplant: 1 × SNECMA Atar 9K-50 afterburning turbojet engine, 49.2 kN thrust dry, 70.6 kN with afterburner

 

    Maximum speed: 700 kts up to 20000 feets, above 750
    Maximum speed: Mach 2.1
    Combat range: 425 km (264 mi, 229 nmi) hi-lo-hi at Mach 0.75/0.88 with 14 × 250 kg (551 lb) bombs
    Ferry range: 3,300 km (2,100 mi, 1,800 nmi) with maximum external fuel[119]
    Endurance: 2 hr 15 min (combat air patrol, with 2 × Super 530 missiles and centreline drop tank)
    Service ceiling: 20,000 m (66,000 ft)
    Rate of climb: 243 m/s (47,800 ft/min)
    Thrust/weight: 0.66

 

Radar

Spoiler

Cyrano IV

 

South African Manual

 

RWR

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Called BF radar detector

 

Cockpit (With radar top right and RWR behind the stick, see page 2 for more info)

Spoiler

 

Chaff and flares :

Spoiler

Phymat pod :

No built-in countermeasures systems were included at the outset, but a Phimat chaff-flare dispenser could be carried under one wing, with an active jammer pod carried under the other wing.

Source : http://www.airvectors.net/avmirf1.html http://www.checksix-fr.com/downloads/falcon4/Topolo/zip/Falcon4MirageF1.pdf

Can be placed on 5 and 1

 

Improved chaff-flare dispensers were introduced, most significantly the Matra Corail dispenser, in the form of a gondola that could be fitted conformally under the wing next to the fuselage.

Source : http://www.airvectors.net/avmirf1.html http://www.checksix-fr.com/downloads/falcon4/Topolo/zip/Falcon4MirageF1.pdf

It could be placed on 9 and 8 of the previously cited position

 

Weapons/loadout/Chaff-flares

Spoiler

The Mirage F1 also used and tested the Super R530

Source : Dassault Mirage F1 by René Francillon

 

Pictures

Spoiler

 

 

On thing is sure, france willneed the Mirage F1 as fast as possible when the Aim 7 is going to be added, lets hope we won't wait as long as for the Mirage III

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by Trotrodor

[Cedjoe 5,480]

It would certainly be nice to have 3 R530+2 magic and maybe some Super 530F in the current meta 

The Super 530F was the main missile of the Mirage F1 and is usually associated with it. The R.530 was temporarily used on the F1 as the 530F wasn't ready afaik. And later the Super 530D came with the Mirage 2000.

 

Here's a nie picture with the chaff dispenser :

Spoiler

 

Edited August 27, 2020 by Cedjoe

[Trotrodor 2,670]

2 hours ago, Cedjoe said:

It would certainly be nice to have 3 R530+2 magic and maybe some Super 530F in the current meta 

The Super 530F was the main missile of the Mirage F1 and is usually associated with it. The R.530 was temporarily used on the F1 as the 530F wasn't ready afaik. And later the Super 530D came with the Mirage 2000.

 

Here's a nie picture with the chaff dispenser :

  Reveal hidden contents

 

With Aim 7E in the game, we could easly get Super R530F

Edited August 27, 2020 by Trotrodor

[Trotrodor 2,670]

Infos on the Super 530F :

 

The super R530 and the R530 in general was made for intercepting fast moving high altitude plane like the Mig 25, that was there purpose, lots of info here :

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=156875&page=46

 

Spoiler

 

Edited August 27, 2020 by Trotrodor

[nxdefiant001 1,388]

F1-C only ? no EH ? EQ? ARSTAC ?

The F1-C is the air only variant it has no bomb computer, the F1-CT has one but it suffers from the 1gun mig syndrome. and we need a aircraft capable of doing everything for it to be competitive in the future.

The EQ might be the solution so why not jump directly to it ? or just scramble every variant into one plane since the SUE/SEM will later fly alongside it. (and maybe the mirage milan please give me my sexy moustache plane)

[Trotrodor 2,670]

7 hours ago, nxdefiant001 said:

F1-C only ? no EH ? EQ? ARSTAC ?

The F1-C is the air only variant it has no bomb computer, the F1-CT has one but it suffers from the 1gun mig syndrome. and we need a aircraft capable of doing everything for it to be competitive in the future.

The EQ might be the solution so why not jump directly to it ? or just scramble every variant into one plane since the SUE/SEM will later fly alongside it. (and maybe the mirage milan please give me my sexy moustache plane)

EH and EQ are export variant

 

Maybe we could go to the F1-CT 200 yeah, it would be easier to justify some weaponery for sure

[Trotrodor 2,670]

With the 21bis added, the F1 is really really needed now ...

stop ignoring france ffs, we are always 10 years behind other nation, while having one of the best possible lineup in the world

 

[Arakneo 854]

well seing how gajin is treating the leclerc S2, it wouldn t surprise me that when the F1 is introduce, it will only have 530 IR 

[Bringer_Of_War 889]

On 19/11/2020 at 10:58, Trotrodor said:

With the 21bis added, the F1 is really really needed now ...

stop ignoring france ffs, we are always 10 years behind other nation, while having one of the best possible lineup in the world

 

 

Yeah we need more engine power , more armament , flares and RWR 

 

[Trotrodor 2,670]

In my opinion, the F1 could be added right now, it wouldn't break the game !

 

It would only be comparable to F4E and Mig 21bis.

 

The F1 should be added next patch or the one after, probably with the Mig 23...

 

For the F14 however, france will need the Mirage 2000, as the F1 is no match for the F14, or at least not a balance one !

[Cedjoe 5,480]

50 minutes ago, Trotrodor said:

In my opinion, the F1 could be added right now, it wouldn't break the game !

 

It would only be comparable to F4E and Mig 21bis.

 

The F1 should be added next patch or the one after, probably with the Mig 23...

 

For the F14 however, france will need the Mirage 2000, as the F1 is no match for the F14, or at least not a balance one !

Tbh we’ll never get any equivalent in terms of missiles, but something like the Mirage F1-M53 would already be equivalent in terms of performance.

Edited November 22, 2020 by Cedjoe

[Trotrodor 2,670]

25 minutes ago, Cedjoe said:

Tbh we’ll never get any equivalent in terms of missiles, but something like the Mirage F1-M53 would already be equivalent in terms of performance.

To the F14 ? i'd much rather have a used aircraft than a prototype...

 

And the look down shoot down capacity of the 2000 would be much more usefull and much more in line with what the f14 could do

 

In many ways, the 2000 is the clear french counter to the F14

Edited November 22, 2020 by Trotrodor

[Cedjoe 5,480]

3 minutes ago, Trotrodor said:

To the F14 ? i'd much rather have a used aircraft than a prototype...

 

And the look down shoot down capacity of the 2000 would be much more usefull and much more in line with what the f14 could do

 

In many ways, the 2000 is the clear french counter to the F14

The Mirage 2000 is more of a counter to the F-15 and later variants are equivalent to the F-16, and we’ll certainly never get it at the same time as the F-14.

Btw Moroccan F1 were re-engined recently with the M53, and the M53 upgrade was proposed for service but wasn’t accepted in France, so it’s not really a prototype, more of a failed export variant.

Edited November 22, 2020 by Cedjoe

[Trotrodor 2,670]

2 minutes ago, Cedjoe said:

The Mirage 2000 is more of a counter to the F-15 and later variants are equivalent to the F-16, and we’ll certainly never get it at the same time as the F-14.

Btw Moroccan F1 were re-engined recently with the M53, and the M53 upgrade was proposed for service but wasn’t accepted in France, so it’s not really a prototype, more of a failed export variant.

You clearly don't know how advance and devastating the F14 is .... it's way way more than what the F1 can handle...

Its agile, can look down shoot down, has a LOT of missile ... Way better than any other 70s aircraft...

The M2000 would be very balance, with only 4 missile, it would have a better maneouvrability than the F14, but much less firepower ...

 

Remember that the only Russian counter to the F14 will be the Mig 29... so M2000 is clearly what france should get against the F14

 

F15 is an all other level, even better, with an even better firepower ... More in line to the Mirage 4000

[Cedjoe 5,480]

20 minutes ago, Trotrodor said:

You clearly don't know how advance and devastating the F14 is .... it's way way more than what the F1 can handle...

Its agile, can look down shoot down, has a LOT of missile ... Way better than any other 70s aircraft...

The M2000 would be very balance, with only 4 missile, it would have a better maneouvrability than the F14, but much less firepower ...

 

Remember that the only Russian counter to the F14 will be the Mig 29... so M2000 is clearly what france should get against the F14

 

F15 is an all other level, even better, with an even better firepower ... More in line to the Mirage 4000

Read my first comment, we’ll never get an equivalent in terms of missiles to the F-14. It makes no sense to ask for a plane 10 years younger which wouldn’t even compensate the problems the Mirage F1 has, and you can be sure the devs won’t add it at the same time anyway. The Mirage 2000 is very well known to be the French equivalent to the F-15/F-16 in general.

It will always be the same story as what we currently have right now, the Mirage IIIC is very good with good missiles and maneuverability, but it doesn’t have nearly as many missiles as its counterparts. We’re not gonna start asking for younger planes just because they have similar firepower. 
 

Edit : the Mirage F1-M53 should have exceptional performance, with close to 300m/s climb rate 

Edited November 22, 2020 by Cedjoe

[Trotrodor 2,670]

7 minutes ago, Cedjoe said:

Read my first comment, we’ll never get an equivalent in terms of missiles to the F-14. It makes no sense to ask for a plane 10 years younger which wouldn’t even compensate the problems the Mirage F1 has, and you can be sure the devs won’t add it at the same time anyway. The Mirage 2000 is very well known to be the French equivalent to the F-15 /F-16 in general.

It will always be the same story as what we currently have right now, the Mirage IIIC is very good with good missiles and maneuverability, but it doesn’t have nearly as many missiles as its counterparts. We’re not gonna start asking for younger planes just because they have similar firepower. 

The game is not base on time period anymore, if it was we wouldn't had the T2 and F1

 

Its based on capacity !

 

And the 2000 is much closer to the F14 than the F1

AS much as the mig29 is much closer to the F14 than the Mig 23

 

And if russian want a balance experience, they will ask for the 29, which is equivalenbt in capacity to the 2000 (and from the same time period if you like)

 

The M2000 is certauinly close to the F16, but it's no way near as good as the F15 ... (thats for the M4000)...

 

Just look at DCS, Mirage 2000 are not competitive AT ALL, they get dumped by the other aircraft

[Cedjoe 5,480]

1 minute ago, Trotrodor said:

The game is not base on time period anymore, if it was we wouldn't had the T2 and F1

 

Its based on capacity !

 

And the 2000 is much closer to the F14 than the F1

AS much as the mig29 is much closer to the F14 than the Mig 23

 

And if russian want a balance experience, they will ask for the 29, which is equivalenbt in capacity to the 2000 (and from the same time period if you like)

 

The M2000 is certauinly close to the F16, but it's no way near as good as the F15 ... (thats for the M4000)...

 

Just look at DCS, Mirage 2000 are not competitive AT ALL, they get dumped by the other aircraft

Whatever, I think the F1 is already very good against and equivalent to the F-14 except for the missiles, and that cannot be compensated by adding a much more modern plane in every other aspect. We’ll just have to deal with the fact we have to use our missiles carefully while US players can spam them. This will be the case no matter the gen we’re in.

[Trotrodor 2,670]

6 minutes ago, Cedjoe said:

Whatever, I think the F1 is already very good against and equivalent to the F-14 except for the missiles, and that cannot be compensated by adding a much more modern plane in every other aspect. We’ll just have to deal with the fact we have to use our missiles carefully while US players can spam them. This will be the case no matter the gen we’re in.

Except, the F14 is also faster, more maneouvrable, can shoot you at any altitude way further than you can  ...

 

So yeah, not really balance in any way shape or form...

 

And you can be sure russian will get the 29, also an 80s aircraft like the 2000

[Cedjoe 5,480]

1 hour ago, Trotrodor said:

Except, the F14 is also faster, more maneouvrable, can shoot you at any altitude way further than you can  ...

 

So yeah, not really balance in any way shape or form...

You’re underestimating a lot the Mirage F1 here, apart from armament, it is very close to the F-14 except in engine power, which is compensated if we talk about the M53 version, hence my previous proposal.

1 hour ago, Trotrodor said:

And you can be sure russian will get the 29, also an 80s aircraft like the 2000

I doubt that, seeing how they got their jet from the same gen as the F-4E only now.

[Nicolaser 2,024]

Dont comparé à mirage 2000 to an f15/ f14 boyh are way bigger than the mirage 2000/F1 

 

Su 27 is the russian counterpart to both f15 and f14. European has nothing comparable to those 3 except tornado from size comparison but not the same role. True counterpart would have been mirage 4 b (which was cancelled) and super mirage 4000. In fact like the phantom the tomcat was really in advance for it's time

 

If you want to compare the produced mirage family to some us and Russian plane : f-5, f-16, f-18(hornet not super hornet) and mig 29.

 

Btw mig 29 was developed in the urgency cause the su-27 were delayed. It has nothing to compare with those big plane

Edited November 22, 2020 by Nicolaser

[Trotrodor 2,670]

2 hours ago, Cedjoe said:

You’re underestimating a lot the Mirage F1 here, apart from armament, it is very close to the F-14 except in engine power, which is compensated if we talk about the M53 version, hence my previous proposal.

i'm not underestimating the F1, I just know that the F14 is just a beast ...If france had finish its Super Mirage ACF program than we would have had a comparable aircraft in the 70s, but it wasn't the case, instead we decided to stick to light aircraft

[Cedjoe 5,480]

1 minute ago, Trotrodor said:

i'm not underestimating the F1, I just know that the F14 is just a beast ...If france had finish its Super Mirage ACF program than we would have had a comparable aircraft in the 70s, but it wasn't the case, instead we decided to stick to light aircraft

True, but tbh the F-14 is mostly a beast because of its missiles and radar. Its engines are very powerful but the aircraft itself is very heavy, even heavier than an F-4 if I'm not mistaken, and it is maneuverable compared to an F-4, but not really compared to a Mirage III or even F1.

[UrbiOrbi 159]

10 hours ago, Trotrodor said:

Except, the F14 is also faster, more maneouvrable, can shoot you at any altitude way further than you can  ...

 

So yeah, not really balance in any way shape or form...

 

And you can be sure russian will get the 29, also an 80s aircraft like the 2000

Faster ? by what 100 km/h at max speed, irrelevant since 99% of the game is spent at less than mach 1

More manoeuvrable, you must kiding us, an empty F-14 weight more than a fully loader F-1.

the F-14 was designed to be a fleet interceptor to destroye incoming wave of russian bomber flying almost straight not to enter into a close encounter with dedicated fighters.

I think your badly overestimating US aircraft capacities.

[Trotrodor 2,670]

15 hours ago, Cedjoe said:

True, but tbh the F-14 is mostly a beast because of its missiles and radar. Its engines are very powerful but the aircraft itself is very heavy, even heavier than an F-4 if I'm not mistaken, and it is maneuverable compared to an F-4, but not really compared to a Mirage III or even F1.

 

8 hours ago, UrbiOrbi said:

Faster ? by what 100 km/h at max speed, irrelevant since 99% of the game is spent at less than mach 1

More manoeuvrable, you must kiding us, an empty F-14 weight more than a fully loader F-1.

the F-14 was designed to be a fleet interceptor to destroye incoming wave of russian bomber flying almost straight not to enter into a close encounter with dedicated fighters.

I think your badly overestimating US aircraft capacities.

You clearly have no clue on what you are talking about ...

 

Even tho it is an heavy plane, its a variable geometry plane, and a good one, which means that it is very agile (was not the case for the mig 23)...

 

Basically the F14 is the analogic version of a fly by wire aircraft, even tho it is heavy, it is very agile and very powerfull with an insane thrust to weight (for the D)

 

Weight isn't everything...

Spoiler

 

 

I don't know if its your pride in french aircraft are what, but the F14 is way better than the F1

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Cedjoe 5,480]

19 minutes ago, Trotrodor said:

 

You clearly have no clue on what you are talking about ...

 

Even tho it is an heavy plane, its a variable geometry plane, and a good one, which means that it is very agile (was not the case for the mig 23)...

 

Basically the F14 is the analogic version of a fly by wire aircraft, even tho it is heavy, it is very agile and very powerfull with an insane thrust to weight (for the D)

 

Weight isn't everything...

Reveal hidden contents

 

 

I don't know if its your pride in french aircraft are what, but the F14 is way better than the F1

 

Reveal hidden contents

 

 

The T/W ratio of the M53-equipped F1 is higher than the F-14A, which is why I was mentioning it.

Yes, the variable-sweep wing makes it more maneuverable than aircraft its size and weight, but it’s still not as maneuverable as a mirage.

Again, yes the F-14 is better than the F1, but mostly because of its avionics and armament.