Jump to content

They showed today on the stream the T-72B3 that had all kinds of wrong with it, the most thing that triggers me aside from stock HEAT-FS and HE is the fact that they put the wrong gun on it 2A46M-1 when in fact it uses 2A46M-5 and it can fire the Svinets APFSDS shells that have 600+ penetration. it takes 1 second to search on the internet to see that T-72B3 doesn't use 2A46M-1. I know it was only a dev server stream, I just hope they fix this.

Edited by Leplivo
  • Like 1
  • Haha 3
  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dev server models are not final, same with this specific vehicle. 

Devs are aware of that.

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

More information on this. The T-72B3 2011 Could fire upto Svinets-1 (3BM59) with 2A46M-4 cannon. The 2016 t-72 modernization upgrade (2016 T-72B3M) Upgraded the Cannon to 2A46M-5 and the autoloader to be able to fire the larger Svinets-2 (3BM60) and Svir ATGM

 

The T-72B3 historically fired Svinets-1 untill the B3M upgrade. The t-72B3(M) never fired the 3BM22 or 3BM42, these rounds were well into retirement by the time this tank was in service.

 

https://forum.warthunder.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=524409

https://svpressa.ru/war21/article/219941/

 

The 2016 B3M upgrades are also covered here: http://redstar.ru/po-zavetam-pervogvardejtsev/

 

Gaijin please fix

Edited by CorsairJazzCat
  • Thanks 1
  • Confused 1
medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, CorsairJazzCat said:

The T-72B3 2011 Could fire upto Svinets-1 (3BM59)

Could being the key word here

1 hour ago, CorsairJazzCat said:

2A46M-4 cannon

Wrong autoloader for that gun

1 hour ago, CorsairJazzCat said:

The t-72B3(M) never fired the 3BM22 or 3BM42, these rounds were well into retirement by the time this tank was in service.

Prove it

  • Haha 3
  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 1
medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, CorsairJazzCat said:

these rounds were well into retirement by the time this tank was in service.

 

Doesn't matter in WT. It wouldn't be the first tank to be using rounds that were long out of service. Just look at the Challenger 2F.

 

Ammunition is chosen to match the balance. Whether one agrees with that approach or not is subjective, but that is what Gaikin's choice is.

  • Upvote 1
medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, BlazeFlame24 said:

What about no? USSR doesnt deserve better ammo, their win rate is already massive because of good players and being in team with most OP nation (Germany).

why not, only GER,US,and Italy deserve it ? are they the only one's to have such shell that can lol pen anything ? 

recently most matches are NATO vs USSR only, so they're not with GER all the time and still i see NATO loses cause of bad players, not that they have bad tanks or bad shells... srsly i never thought NATO vs USSR will end up with NATO losing :D

also GER is not OP at all US is OP with all that premium Apache spam and Abrams back up one by one... 

Russia deserve's a new better shell and im sure they will get it, cause T-72B3 mod 2016 can fire up to Svinets-1.

UK deserve's a new/better AP shells... the rest are fine for now...

Edited by Solid_Fire
  • Thanks 2
medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No need for Svinets, how about Vant to replace 3BM22? So instead of 3BM22+3BM42, it would be 3BM32+3BM42

medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Solid_Fire said:

why not, only GER,US,and Italy deserve it ? are they the only one's to have such shell that can lol pen anything ? 

FTFY.

1 hour ago, Solid_Fire said:

Russia deserve's a new better shell and im sure they will get it

Yeah they surely deserve something... Not new shells tho.

  • Thanks 1
  • Confused 3
  • Upvote 1
medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand what makes you believe that Russia NEEDS Svinets-1...

There is not a single round, not even the CL3143, that can lolpen any tank everywhere. Every 10.7 tank turret is safe from even CL3143 unless you go for typical weakspots (I am talking about from the front at 500 meters). Those very same weakspots can be penetrated by even DM13s (Tier 1 Mod of the Leopard 2A4)

 

The majority of folks I have seen the past several days since the announcement of the T-72B3 Obr. 2016 who were demanding Svinets-1 were mostly players that only played Russia and had either a very bad win/loss ratio or actually a quite reasonable and close to average W/L ratio of that vehicle in Ground RB.

 

But what they all had in common was, the complaining about the Leopard 2A5 and M1A2 being OP. But never even have played the damn tanks or perform ****-poor in them.

 

Ranking of the strongest rounds from top to bottom that are being used by the 10.7 tanks

 

CL3143 - 625mm @ 10m 0°

OFL 120 F1 - 575mm @ 10m 0°

M829 - 491mm @ 10m 0°

DM33 - 481mm @ 10m 0°

3BM42 - 479mm @ 10m 0°

 

So because of 2mm less penetration statswise you complain that the DM33 from the Strv 122 and 2A5 are OP? Not sure what is wrong with you tbh.

 

Russia's new lineup of MBTs

 

BR 9.7

T-72B, T-72B Obr 1989 (Kontakt-5 at this BR - LOL), T-64B(V) - all with access to 3BM42

BR 10.0

T-80B - all with access to 3BM42

BR 10.7

T-80U, T-72B3 Obr. 2011/2016 - all with access to 3BM42

 

So if you want, you can have 6 tanks in your top tier lineup all with a 3BM42; there is no other nation that can have such an extremely strong lineup ammunition wise at top tier starting from 9.7; that is in my humble opinion exactly what defines POWERCREEP. Additionally, people complaining "but USA CAS is so strong and their Premium Apache spam" ... all I have to say is this --> KA-50, KA-52, Mi-28N, MiG-21SMT, MiG-21F-13, Su-7B... all three jets have extremely powerful S24s, both Kamovs have Vikhrs - the most broken, OP and historically incorrect ATGMs in the game and the Mi-28N with Atakas that are extremely strong as well. Yes, USA has a good CAS lineup, but one of the strongest CAS airplanes they have is hiding behind a 300GJN price tag in the market place, because it was an eventvehicle (the FJ-4B VMF)

 

USA

BR 9.7

M60 AMBT (eventvehicle with KE-W round - 583mm @ 10m 0° - but laughable armor)

BR 10.0

M1 Abrams (M774 - 357mm @ 10m 0°), M1IP (M833 - 395mm @ 10m 0°)

BR 10.3

M1A1 (M829)

BR 10.7

M1A2 (M829)

 

Germany

BR 9.7

Leopard 2K - (DM13 - 393mm @ 10m 0°)

BR 10.0

Leopard 2A4 - (DM23 - 410mm @ 10m 0°)

BR 10.7

Leopard 2A5 - (DM33)

 

 

Italy

BR 9.7

Ariete (P) - (DM33)

BR 10.3

Ariete, Centauro MGS - all with access to CL3143 and DM33

BR 10.7

Ariete PSO (CL3143 + DM33)

Edited by Yedidya
  • Like 1
  • Confused 5
  • Upvote 7
medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, CorsairJazzCat said:

This document explains the upgrades to the t-72B which turned into the t-90 and then advancements from the t-90 going into the t-72B3M Upgrade package.

T-90 STANDARD TANK.pdf 12.69 MB · 0 downloads

Might be, but you wrote it yourself --> T-72B3M and not T-72B3 Obr. 2016  (which is the tank we are getting)

medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Yedidya said:

Might be, but you wrote it yourself --> T-72B3M and not T-72B3 Obr. 2016  (which is the tank we are getting)

T-72B3 Obr. 2016 is the Modernization upgrade for thje T-72B3

 

T-72B3M(odernized)

 

Edited by CorsairJazzCat
medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, CorsairJazzCat said:

T-72B3 Obr. 2016 is the Modernization upgrade for thje T-72B3

 

T-72B3M(odernized)

 

That is incorrect...

 

The T-72B3M has a individual commanders sight with a thermal channel; the T-72B3 Obr. 2016 does NOT have this feature. One of the easiest ways to differentiate the T-72B3 Obr. 2016 from the T-72B3 Obr. 2014 and T-72B3M

medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Yedidya said:

That is incorrect...

 

The T-72B3M has a individual commanders sight with a thermal channel; the T-72B3 Obr. 2016 does NOT have this feature. One of the easiest ways to differentiate the T-72B3 Obr. 2016 from the T-72B3 Obr. 2014 and T-72B3M

 

Not according this https://forum.warthunder.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=525286

medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, CorsairJazzCat said:

More information on this. The T-72B3 2011 Could fire upto Svinets-1 (3BM59) with 2A46M-4 cannon. The 2016 t-72 modernization upgrade (2016 T-72B3M) Upgraded the Cannon to 2A46M-5 and the autoloader to be able to fire the larger Svinets-2 (3BM60) and Svir ATGM

 

The T-72B3 historically fired Svinets-1 untill the B3M upgrade. The t-72B3(M) never fired the 3BM22 or 3BM42, these rounds were well into retirement by the time this tank was in service.

 

https://forum.warthunder.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=524409 480.7 kB · 22 downloads

https://svpressa.ru/war21/article/219941/

 

The 2016 B3M upgrades are also covered here: http://redstar.ru/po-zavetam-pervogvardejtsev/

 

Gaijin please fix

T-72B3 mod. 2016 can fire Svinets 1 and Svinets 2, The B3M upgrade package is just for the tank biathlon which adds an additional commander optic.

On 21/08/2020 at 18:41, Stona said:

Dev server models are not final, same with this specific vehicle. 

Devs are aware of that.

So on the dev server they did fix the gun, it shows 2A46M-5 so why not give the shells that the 2A46M-5 really fires? Why give it shells that it never used?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 22/08/2020 at 06:13, BlazeFlame24 said:

What about no? USSR doesnt deserve better ammo, their win rate is already massive because of good players and being in team with most OP nation (Germany).

So Russia doesn't deserve better shells because of good players........... W T F*** you on?

Edited by Leplivo
  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Leplivo said:

So on the dev server they did fix the gun, it shows 2A46M-5 so why not give the shells that the 2A46M-5 really fires? Why give it shells that it never used?

The 2A46M-5 is compatible with all of the 125 ammo, so there is no issue with them. If B3 is lacking then maybe a new round or BR should be looked into.

AFAIK most of the rounds used by the Russian Army is old Soviet stock. Stuff like 3BM59 and 3BM60 are likely reserved for elite units and T-14s/T-90Ms

  • Confused 1
medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, WulfPack said:

The 2A46M-5 is compatible with all of the 125 ammo, so there is no issue with them. If B3 is lacking then maybe a new round or BR should be looked into.

AFAIK most of the rounds used by the Russian Army is old Soviet stock. Stuff like 3BM59 and 3BM60 are likely reserved for elite units and T-14s/T-90Ms

 

Nope, The  T-14 used the 2A82 cannon and fired Vaccum rounds.

This cannon could only fire the 3bm69 and 3bm70 shells

12 hours ago, Leplivo said:

T-72B3 mod. 2016 can fire Svinets 1 and Svinets 2, The B3M upgrade package is just for the tank biathlon which adds an additional commander optic.

So on the dev server they did fix the gun, it shows 2A46M-5 so why not give the shells that the 2A46M-5 really fires? Why give it shells that it never used?

 

13 hours ago, CorsairJazzCat said:

 

Edited by CorsairJazzCat
medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, WulfPack said:

The 2A46M-5 is compatible with all of the 125 ammo, so there is no issue with them. If B3 is lacking then maybe a new round or BR should be looked into.

AFAIK most of the rounds used by the Russian Army is old Soviet stock. Stuff like 3BM59 and 3BM60 are likely reserved for elite units and T-14s/T-90Ms

T-14 Armata uses the 2A82-1M gun and fires vacuum rounds, T-90M uses the same gun. 2A46M-5 uses Svinets-1 and Svinets-2 in real life, it doesn't make sense for Russia to use old Soviet rounds when they made new ones because those old Soviet rounds are obsolete. They can just give the T-72B3 the Svinets-2 (3BM60) round and set the penetration to 642mm or 650mm. The 3BM60 has already been used in the game by T-90A in the April fools event and it had 642mm of pen and Leopard 2A5 was still the superior tank.

 

41 minutes ago, CorsairJazzCat said:

 

Nope, The  T-14 used the 2A82 cannon and fired Vaccum rounds.

This cannon could only fire the 3bm69 and 3bm70 shells

 

 

that .pdf file doesn't prove anything, anywhere you search on the internet it says that the 3BM upgrade package is for the tank biathlons and it just add an additional commander optic. Having just one source or file is nothing.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay so, Armata can fire every 125mm rounds until 3BM70 (new gun, new autoloader, much more flexibility). T-90M and T-72B3 uses 2A46M-5 and can fire up to 3BM60 (cause of the 740mm hard limit on round length that's permissible by the AZ autoloader).

At this point let's not get too much offtopic I guess and my opinion is that it's up to the devs on how to balance the tank. If you watch closely on some Russian videos then you know that they still use 3BM42 until this day, this doesn't mean that they don't field newer BM59 and BM60, they're just emptying the BM42 stockpile.

While on the devserver I didn't have enough time to finish the T-72B3 grind so I just see the other players use it. Yes it is a bit more tanky than T-80U but the mobility is kinda lacking, and the devs can make these newer rounds their strongpoint, then again, I think it's fine with the BM42 as of the first devserver.

 

Some source: https://thesovietarmourblog.blogspot.com/2015/05/t-72-soviet-progeny.html#2a46m-5 (general view on the T-72B and its mods)

https://zakupki.gov.ru/223/purchase/public/purchase/info/documents.html?lotId=4498123&purchaseId=3264240&purchaseMethodType=EP (source for the procurement of the modernization of AZ-184 autoloader for T-72B3 Obr. 2016)

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, PvtNewb said:

Okay so, Armata can fire every 125mm rounds until 3BM70 (new gun, new autoloader, much more flexibility). T-90M and T-72B3 uses 2A46M-5 and can fire up to 3BM60 (cause of the 740mm hard limit on round length that's permissible by the AZ autoloader).

At this point let's not get too much offtopic I guess and my opinion is that it's up to the devs on how to balance the tank. If you watch closely on some Russian videos then you know that they still use 3BM42 until this day, this doesn't mean that they don't field newer BM59 and BM60, they're just emptying the BM42 stockpile.

While on the devserver I didn't have enough time to finish the T-72B3 grind so I just see the other players use it. Yes it is a bit more tanky than T-80U but the mobility is kinda lacking, and the devs can make these newer rounds their strongpoint, then again, I think it's fine with the BM42 as of the first devserver.

 

Some source: https://thesovietarmourblog.blogspot.com/2015/05/t-72-soviet-progeny.html#2a46m-5 (general view on the T-72B and its mods)

https://zakupki.gov.ru/223/purchase/public/purchase/info/documents.html?lotId=4498123&purchaseId=3264240&purchaseMethodType=EP (source for the procurement of the modernization of AZ-184 autoloader for T-72B3 Obr. 2016)

T-90M has the same gun as T-14 Armata and that is 2A82-1M, T-90A uses 2A46M-5.

Edited by Leplivo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

also the reload times for tanks need to be fixed, 6 seconds for the Abrams is absurd, 7.1 for the T-72s and T-80B is very unrealistic and 6.5 for the T-80U. You can find videos online of the tanks loading and you can even open up a timer if you are too lazy to research it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Leplivo said:

T-90M has the same gun as T-14 Armata and that is 2A82-1M, T-90A uses 2A46M-5.

So far the interior photos and videos of T-90M and MS showed that it is in fact the breech assembly and autoloader assembly of 2A46M-5 (also look up the T-90MS suggestion thread in forums), it's much more complex than swapping out a new longer gun into an old chassis, but whatever dude, let's get back to discussing T-72B3.

 

14 minutes ago, Leplivo said:

also the reload times for tanks need to be fixed, 6 seconds for the Abrams is absurd, 7.1 for the T-72s and T-80B is very unrealistic and 6.5 for the T-80U. You can find videos online of the tanks loading and you can even open up a timer if you are too lazy to research it.

AFAIK, the autoloader reload rate is almost similar to the MZ of the T-64 and T-80 series, but the problem with T-72's AZ style is that it has to ram two times during the cycle instead of once like in the MZ. Gaijin now basically take averages in reload rate, and yes it is kind of unrealistic, for example, loading an ATGM should add around 1-2 seconds to the cycle, but in-game it stays 7.1 or 6.5 seconds flat.

Spoiler

1773786581_translatedautoloadercyclogram

This is a translated autoloader cyclogram in English. Should give you a nice idea.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...