IAmLordeYaYa

Gaijin remove helicopters from Ground RB please.

They just are so annoying, nothing makes me more mad and ready to punch the **** out of my monitor than being spammed rockets down on my face while 3 helis are just runnnig circles over everyone, or maybe there is a heli multiple kilometers away just doing nothing but pressing buttons sending missiles from out of nowhere to kill you, planes are something people can put up with, but these helicopters just dont fit in to Ground RB!!!

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Spawn at least one SPAA at the start of the match and you're safe. Additionally some ground vehicles have anti-heli capacities as well to repel any early helicopter strike. Lategame you can spawn jet fighters and use SAMs. 

 

If your team just don't want to play the vital anti air role, you have to suffer. 

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Just now, Thodin said:

Spawn at least one SPAA at the start of the match and you're safe. Additionally some ground vehicles have anti-heli capacities as well to repel any early helicopter strike. Lategame you can spawn jet fighters and use SAMs. 

 

If your team just don't want to play the vital anti air role, you have to suffer. 

It's just that playing Anti Air makes me want to fall asleep in this game because sometimes it feels like forever waiting for targets to pop up. I strongly think that keeping helicopters to their own game mode would be much healthyer for the game, nobody likes them in ground RB besides those who play them.

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9 hours ago, IAmLordeYaYa said:

It's just that playing Anti Air makes me want to fall asleep in this game because sometimes it feels like forever waiting for targets to pop up. I strongly think that keeping helicopters to their own game mode would be much healthyer for the game, nobody likes them in ground RB besides those who play them.

 

We'll its too bad that the helicopter gamemode IS the single most unbalanced pile of garbage to rear its ugly head in warthunder. 

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18 hours ago, IAmLordeYaYa said:

It's just that playing Anti Air makes me want to fall asleep in this game because sometimes it feels like forever waiting for targets to pop up. I strongly think that keeping helicopters to their own game mode would be much healthyer for the game, nobody likes them in ground RB besides those who play them.

 

wow

who'd have thought tankers don't like dedicated tank hunters in a combined arms game

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yeah I second that, or just give us the option to play a ground only mode. Players have been asking for that since day 1, and I fail to see how it's too much to ask to get it in some form or other, but I digress. 

 

Helicopters ruin matches, be it some guy rushing into your spawn with rockets in the first minute or getting instantly killed by a heli you could in no way see or defend yourself against half way through the match. 

 

I'm no fan of the implementation of planes either, but at least those you can sometimes see coming, and they have to be within 5 km to do anything to you. Hell, at least most planes take a little bit of skill in the form of some aiming on the part of the pilot, meanwhile helis get fire and forget missiles that can ohk you from 10 km.

 

If gaijin were to axe every single heli from the game tomorrow I wouldn't miss them, and I'm sure the only people who would are 12 year old wallet warriors who want the easy kills. 

 

23 hours ago, Thodin said:

Spawn at least one SPAA at the start of the match and you're safe.

So you've got to waste your first spawn, ensuring you'll be out of position when (if) you actually get to bring your tank in. Chances are the heli will just crash after he's spammed rockets at a few of your teammates (or you if you're unlucky) anyway, so you may as well just chance it in a tank. 

Yeah it's doable to spawn spaa to counter the first spawn rocket helis, but it's absolutely stupid we have to resort to that so gaijin can placate the window licking players who want to spam rockets at your spawn. How about they just forbid helis first spawn? Like they did with planes. Problem solved.

But you know, as usual tank players have to bend over backwards to deal with CAS (helicopters) in their own game mode. They can't even get the first spawn free of CAS like it used to be. 

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Additionally some ground vehicles have anti-heli capacities as well to repel any early helicopter strike. Lategame you can spawn jet fighters and use SAMs. 

which SAMs would they be?
Last I checked half of them are broken and/or worthless. 
And the Ka-50 (and equivalents) missiles **** all over most planes. 

 

You know seeing as helis get fire and forget missiles, how about we give the SAMs the same to counter them? Wouldn't that be fair? Especially seeing as most SAMs we currently have had that capability irl, but gaijin nerfed them for the game (obviously not helis though lol, they have to come in fully powered) 

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If your team just don't want to play the vital anti air role, you have to suffer. 

Lol this old line again. Ignoring the fact that helis dump on most (if not all) anti air, and most air as well.

Edited by Dantheman66
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Helicopters with unguided missiles . I don't have much problem with them . Since you can hear them coming from mile away. And they usually die after 1 or 2 attack run. (They are main food for my IFV :D)

While Helicopters with advance ATGM . I'm agree they start to be a problem. 

They could be well balance if Gaijin didn't rush to more modern and advance helicopters in the first place. And stuck to things like Mi-24D , AH-1F , etc (which have ATGM with range of only 3km+-) So most MANPADS (like Stinger , SA-7) and ground ATGM can reach them. That way we also wouldn't have problem with things like ADATS or Tunguska too.

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14 hours ago, CodeNameColdWar said:

Helicopters with unguided missiles . I don't have much problem with them . Since you can hear them coming from mile away. And they usually die after 1 or 2 attack run. (They are main food for my IFV :D)

Just saw one get 4-5 kills in the first minute. We had SPAA as well (roland at least) but as I said before they're useless, and he was one of the first to die

I just don't see why it's even necessary to have helis spawn first to begin with. It never was with planes. Why do we have to put up with this **** for helicopters? 

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3 hours ago, Dantheman66 said:

Just saw one get 4-5 kills in the first minute. We had SPAA as well (roland at least) but as I said before they're useless, and he was one of the first to die

I just don't see why it's even necessary to have helis spawn first to begin with. It never was with planes. Why do we have to put up with this **** for helicopters? 

not the roland was useless it was the roland player ...

or do you believe the roland shoot alone? Most jerks not even able to operate a SPAA forward ... , donkeys .

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4 hours ago, Haxburch said:

not the roland was useless it was the roland player ...

or do you believe the roland shoot alone? Most jerks not even able to operate a SPAA forward ... , donkeys .

whatever the case, some heli rolled in spamming rockets and got 5 kills before half the team had left spawn.

SPAA can counter rocket helis sure, but why should we have to resort to that on the first spawn to begin with? What kind of game immediately spawns you in the sights of a rocket armed helicopter? It's awful game design, laughable really  

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I've spawned in SPAA as my first spawn plenty of times.  Often in matches where aircraft play a minimal role and I just sit in my spawn twiddling my thumbs, wondering at what point am I supposed to be enjoying the game.

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Just now, Matt_82 said:

I've spawned in SPAA as my first spawn plenty of times.  Often in matches where aircraft play a minimal role and I just sit in my spawn twiddling my thumbs, wondering at what point am I supposed to be enjoying the game.

This

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17 hours ago, Dantheman66 said:

Just saw one get 4-5 kills in the first minute. We had SPAA as well (roland at least) but as I said before they're useless, and he was one of the first to die

 

I just don't see why it's even necessary to have helis spawn first to begin with. It never was with planes. Why do we have to put up with this **** for helicopters? 

Well if SPAA player aren't paying attention to his duty that would happen. You didn't need proper SPAA to deal with these heli. Roof MG , IFV auto cannon are usually enough to keep them down. (As i'm playing USSR and US Their top-tier MBTs mostly have .50 mouted on top)

 

It is better than before that helicopters can spawn with ATGM on start of match which is clearly handholding for them. Still i wouldn't have any problem if helicopter (with unguided rocket) SP got increase. As i use them as support unit on late game (Especially hunting last few enemy who hinding in map , or capture point if i have to)

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2 hours ago, CodeNameColdWar said:

Roof MG , IFV auto cannon are usually enough to keep them down. (As i'm playing USSR and US Their top-tier MBTs mostly have .50 mouted on top)

Yeah haha, imagine only having 7.62mm MGs, wouldn't that be silly?

Edited by Stelpher

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5 hours ago, CodeNameColdWar said:

Well if SPAA player aren't paying attention to his duty that would happen.

Well see what I said before. I don't see why we should need to rely on our team mates bringing SPAA (or spawn it ourselves) immediately on the first spawn. It just shouldn't be an issue to begin with, planes never were allowed first spawn for good reason, and I see no reason why helis should be allowed first spawn either.

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You didn't need proper SPAA to deal with these heli. Roof MG , IFV auto cannon are usually enough to keep them down. (As i'm playing USSR and US Their top-tier MBTs mostly have .50 mouted on top)

It's a shame I only have 7.62 then.

Of course I can get lucky and hit them with 120 mm APFSDS but, oh no, looks like helis are more survivable than mbts when it comes to eating APFSDS. It's almost always a crit at most as your reward for hitting a heli with your main gun, and they'll keep flying, spamming rockets or atgms. Fully enclosed light tanks get hull break, but do helis? Nope. It's absurd

Quote

It is better than before that helicopters can spawn with ATGM on start of match which is clearly handholding for them. Still i wouldn't have any problem if helicopter (with unguided rocket) SP got increase. As i use them as support unit on late game (Especially hunting last few enemy who hinding in map , or capture point if i have to)

Sure it's better than facing ATGM helis first spawn. Not really saying much though, is it? First spawn ATGMS were so broken it was a complete joke, and I quit top tier entirely at that point as it wasn't even worth spawning in.

Now what we have is less broken to the point where it's somewhat playable, but it's still garbage. 

 

 

Edited by Dantheman66
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5 hours ago, Stelpher said:

Yeah haha, imagine only having 7.62mm MGs, wouldn't that be silly?

 

2 hours ago, Dantheman66 said:

It's a shame I only have 7.62 then.

 

Nothing we can do about that. German didn't mounted .50 on most of their MBTs like US , USSR , Japan does. UK are also same boat as Germany though.  

 

Well at least you have some weapons to fire at them better than nothing. 

 

2 hours ago, Dantheman66 said:

Of course I can get lucky and hit them with 120 mm APFSDS but, oh no, looks like helis are more survivable than mbts when it comes to eating APFSDS. It's almost always a crit at most as your reward for hitting a heli with your main gun, and they'll keep flying, spamming rockets or atgms. Fully enclosed light tanks get hull break, but do helis? Nope. It's absurd

 

That would come down to damage model that Gaijin design. As we didn't have impact camera like Ground vehicles does. So we don't know where our shell hit on air target. And if AP shell only hit emply zone it shouldn't kill helicopters. (like light armor vehicles currently does)

 

But hitting control system ,  fuel is another things though. ( Even rocket pod , ATGM rack. If they getting direct hit there are change that they will explode irl) To put it simply Gaijn didn't model them accurate enough. 

 

2 hours ago, Dantheman66 said:

Well see what I said before. I don't see why we should need to rely on our team mates bringing SPAA (or spawn it ourselves) immediately on the first spawn. It just shouldn't be an issue to begin with, planes never were allowed first spawn for good reason, and I see no reason why helis should be allowed first spawn either.

 

For first spawn helicopters i guess it is some kind of hand-holding for them.

Balance in Helicopters only mod are really broken . Ground assault give too little RP. That left us with Ground RB.

So a lot helicopter players stick to 

Ground RB mod.

And i'm fine if they got SP increse in ground RB So they can't spawn early on like planes. Since i'm use them on late game.

 

2 hours ago, Dantheman66 said:

Sure it's better than facing ATGM helis first spawn. Not really saying much though, is it? First spawn ATGMS were so broken it was a complete joke, and I quit top tier entirely at that point as it wasn't even worth spawning in.

Now what we have is less broken to the point where it's somewhat playable,

 

Yeah early spawn with ATGM was too much. It like they force you to grind AA missiles vehicles in top-tier to survive against helicopter players.

Now it more playable which is a good things in my case. 

 

2 hours ago, Dantheman66 said:

, but it's still garbage. 

 

There will alway be somethings broken , suck about them. For me it mainly Map design and BR compression. 

 

War Thunder gameplay was never prefect in my eye. It just playable and meh at the same time. So they really need to be improve . But Gaijin seem only stick to old plan. Which is adding "shiny new vehicles" 

 

 

Edited by CodeNameColdWar
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1 hour ago, CodeNameColdWar said:

 

 

Nothing we can do about that. German didn't mounted .50 on most of their MBTs like US , USSR , Japan does. UK are also same boat as Germany though.  

Happens that I have UK and Germany at top tier so I'm double screwed

Although CR2 (2f) should be able to receive a .50 cal afaik as it has the RCWS which can take a 7.62 mm, .50 cal or 40 mm grenade launcher. Unfortunately gaijin decided not to throw UK a bone there, as usual. 

1 hour ago, CodeNameColdWar said:

Well at least you have some weapons to fire at them better than nothing. 

Not really. It just draws their attention. Better off hoping they focus on someone else. 

1 hour ago, CodeNameColdWar said:

 

That would come down to damage model that Gaijin design. As we didn't have impact camera like Ground vehicles does. So we don't know where our shell hit on air target. And if AP shell only hit emply zone it shouldn't kill helicopters. (like light armor vehicles currently does)

Yet hitting light armoured tanks in "empty" spots results in hull break. It's much less believable for a light tank to die in such a manner than it is for a helicopter to, yet it's the light tanks only that get hull break.
Hitting a helicopter anywhere with high velocity APFSDS should be a kill, for gameplay purposes if nothing else. It's not too far fetched to believe that a hit will disrupt the air frame enough to stop it flying. 

1 hour ago, CodeNameColdWar said:

But hitting control system ,  fuel is another things though. ( Even rocket pod , ATGM rack. If they getting direct hit there are change that they will explode irl) To put it simply Gaijn didn't model them accurate enough. 

I've hit them clean through the front (in one end and out the other) and it does nothing. 

1 hour ago, CodeNameColdWar said:

 

For first spawn helicopters i guess it is some kind of hand-holding for them.

Balance in Helicopters only mod are really broken . Ground assault give too little RP. That left us with Ground RB.

Well then sort out the helicopter mode. Why do tank players need to get shafted because too many players rushed to by OP premium helis that ruined the helicopter mode? If the heli mode is broken then either fix it or let it die, instead of dragging the ground mode down as well. 

 

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2 hours ago, Dantheman66 said:

I've hit them clean through the front (in one end and out the other) and it does nothing. 

I've pilot-sniped a heli with APFSDS before. It's one of the most satisfying things in War Thunder when it actually lands and takes them out.

Edited by Stelpher

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1 hour ago, Dantheman66 said:

Not really. It just draws their attention. Better off hoping they focus on someone else. 

 

I was being sarcasm. :D  It is better to yell in chat that there are enemy helicopters . And hoping your team will put enough bullet in them. Plus firing tracer at them usually make my teammate do the same things. (when they are close enough) That is really the best you can do with just 7.62mm MG

 

1 hour ago, Dantheman66 said:

Yet hitting light armoured tanks in "empty" spots results in hull break. It's much less believable for a light tank to die in such a manner than it is for a helicopter to, yet it's the light tanks only that get hull break.

 

Yes current Hullbreak for light armor vehicles are broken. Hitting empty spots shouldn't count as a kill same with helicopters or planes.

 

1 hour ago, Dantheman66 said:

Hitting a helicopter anywhere with high velocity APFSDS should be a kill, for gameplay purposes if nothing else. It's not too far fetched to believe that a hit will disrupt the air frame enough to stop it flying. 

 

If we follow irl things. Hitting empty space like cargo , etc with subcaliber. shouldn't count as kill if the shell didn't damage airframe enough to down aircrafts. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Dantheman66 said:

I've hit them clean through the front (in one end and out the other) and it does nothing. 

 

That what i'm talking about. There a lot of equipment on helicopters not all of them are emply space like we have ingame. Gaijin only create them as model but not as module that effect gameplay .  Also i don't know if spall damage are apply to aircralfs or not. (I think not)

+ without impact camera. We wouldn't know where our shell land on targets to see what damage they done to targets each hit. They could hit the edge of helicopters for all we know.

 

1 hour ago, Dantheman66 said:

Well then sort out the helicopter mode. Why do tank players need to get shafted because too many players rushed to by OP premium helis that ruined the helicopter mode? If the heli mode is broken then either fix it or let it die, instead of dragging the ground mode down as well. 

 

You know "Gaijin" :(. There are a lot of Topic about balance in Helicopter only mod on helicopter discussion . Most of helicopters players were asking them to fix it.   

Look at it again . It is another problems on top of each others.

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22 minutes ago, Stelpher said:

I've pilot-sniped a heli with APFSDS before. It's one of the most satisfying things in War Thunder when it actually lands and takes them out.

 

I've pilot-sniped a  earth crawler tank with a Bullpup AGM12 before. It's one of the most satisfying things in War Thunder when it actually lands and takes them out.

Watching the elevator explosion is great .

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No. This is War Thunder not Tank Thunder. If you cannot be bothered to spawn an AA or jet fighter that is your own fault. Helicopters are easily dealt with when you have the right tools. 

Edited by Nebuias
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1 hour ago, Nebuias said:

No. This is War Thunder not Tank Thunder. If you cannot be bothered to spawn an AA or jet fighter that is your own fault. Helicopters are easily dealt with when you have the right tools. 

 

It is not "Aircraft Thunder" also, but yet we still have an Air Only mode. This is an old excuse. Mixed modes can not justify how good helicopters are now.

 

Maybe you haven't played much SPAAs latelly, but SAM missiles are totally broken after they got nerfed (and helicopters got armor buffed) a few patches ago.

 

I don't think we need to remove helicopters from the game. But the way they are now (mostly top tier helicopters), its just lame. I have shot helicopters 2 or 3 times with APFSDS and APCBC, even on cockpit, only to damage the tail (WTF?). Not to mention, SAM missiles doing "HIT" and then I get killed by the chopper missile.

 

We need balance. That's all.

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What would heavily help this is the option of "Swap to SPAA" switching you to your currently lined up SPAA but then allowing you to resume in your previous tank with no penalty or repair cost.

 

A "free" J out so long as you switch to an SPAA would allow reactive switching. All you lose then is where you were on the map. So helos show up, people realise, and switch to SPAA, either handle it, miss them, or die, then go back to spawn in their previous vehicle for no penalty.

 

All you lose is your position. People are then encouraged to switch to SPAA to handle helos.

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2 hours ago, TheFuzzieOne said:

What would heavily help this is the option of "Swap to SPAA" switching you to your currently lined up SPAA but then allowing you to resume in your previous tank with no penalty or repair cost.

 

A "free" J out so long as you switch to an SPAA would allow reactive switching. All you lose then is where you were on the map. So helos show up, people realise, and switch to SPAA, either handle it, miss them, or die, then go back to spawn in their previous vehicle for no penalty.

 

All you lose is your position. People are then encouraged to switch to SPAA to handle helos.

But then you'll have free ADATS spamming MIM146 and OTOMAGICs do their magic blowing up things at 120 APFSDS per minute.

They only good thing to do if they refuse to fix helis DM, nerf to hell vikhr and give all nations reliable SPAAs is to lower SP for planes without AAM and ATGM.

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