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Arcade player Stigma


AB does need some skills that are needed in RB too and some that are unique to AB (like some is unique to RB).

In the end neither AB nore RB is "better". They are just different.

 

But some people need something to feel better then others.

The fun part is, mostly they are neither good in AB nore in RB. Some of them will even get their **** handed over in AB...

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43 minutes ago, anyuser said:

AB does need some skills that are needed in RB too and some that are unique to AB (like some is unique to RB).

In the end neither AB nore RB is "better". They are just different.

 

But some people need something to feel better then others.

The fun part is, mostly they are neither good in AB nore in RB. Some of them will even get their **** handed over in AB...

*cough* ppl who bought their way up to top tier and because they have a spaded jet think they're good at the game *cough*

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52 minutes ago, ____Lexing____ said:

*cough* ppl who bought their way up to top tier and because they have a spaded jet think they're good at the game *cough*

Thats a group of its own, that can be found in AB too.

I do think more about the people, who are neither good at AB nore at RB, but think they are something better, because they finaly decided to be not good only at RB.

Edited by anyuser
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i see no real problem with playing rb i came from WoT and AB was the gammode i could relate to so i went for it and when and oily when i had gotten the m10 TD did i start playing RB because i felt good enough to im by no means a pro nor do i consider myself great at the game but i seem to have more fun playing RB its just a preference really but i see why AB is there its a way for the new players to get into WT 

 

i only really play ab when i have a SL or GE wager for winning cuz i win lost more there 

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I really enjoy it in AB when a player puts in the chat to everyone something like, "wait, this is ab? I thought I selected rb."

 

It's like they're virtue signaling that they are one of the skilled, cool people who play RB, and they just have to tell everyone. How insecure and pathetic.

That's my interpretation at least.

Edited by Tanman49
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1 hour ago, Tanman49 said:

I really enjoy it in AB when a player puts in the chat to everyone something like, "wait, this is ab? I thought I selected rb."

 

It's like they're virtue signaling that they are one of the skilled, cool people who play RB, and they just have to tell everyone. How insecure and pathetic.

That's my interpretation at least.

I've done that a few times, mostly because I wanted to play RB to spade a vehicle (for obvious reasons) but I didnt realize I had ab selected

It really is embarrassing when it happens though lol

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16 minutes ago, ____Lexing____ said:

I've done that a few times, mostly because I wanted to play RB to spade a vehicle (for obvious reasons) but I didnt realize I had ab selected

It really is embarrassing when it happens though lol

Why is it embarrassing? No one will notice or care.

 

To be clear, of course of I have no issue with some accidentally choosing AB instead of RB.

 

I just can't imagine any other reason to tell everyone about it other than to signify to everyone how cool oneself is for playing RB.

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1 hour ago, Tanman49 said:

I really enjoy it in AB when a player puts in the chat to everyone something like, "wait, this is ab? I thought I selected rb."

 

It's like they're virtue signaling that they are one of the skilled, cool people who play RB, and they just have to tell everyone. How insecure and pathetic.

That's my interpretation at least.

 

Well for a time there was a bug that if you were playing in the events tab and selected "to battle" in the result screen you would get thrown in the regular queue rather than the event queue you selected. Happened to me quite often. 

AFAIK that bug got fixed and it shouldn't have happened to RB players regularly because there usually aren't RB games in the event section only AB and SB (rarely you see RB EC on there). 

 

I can only talk about the air part of War thunder. While I do play tanks i don't enjoy it enough to put any effort into it. 

 

All in all it is a weird concept of thinking that one mode is more difficult than the other as winning and losing isn't depending on how complex the mode is. It is determined by the question if your team is better in this environment than your opponents team... In a sense the complexity of the mode really doesn't matter. I can't say a lot about RBas it is my least played mode, but I would guess that SB is in a sense easier than AB as soon as you got the basics of the mode. The reason for that is that you have a lot more people still trying to get the hang of the mode in your games while in a regular AB match pretty much all players already know the basics... So the average skill in the environment is higher in AB Wich directly leads to the fact that getting a good result in AB for someone who only knows the basics is a lot harder in AB then in SB. On the other hand if you ask what mode is more complex hardly anyone would choose AB over SB (can't say anything about RB as to me the mode is mostly redundant and I only play it while watching YT). 

 

I guess that most people confuse complexity with difficulty even though they aren't the same thing especially not in pvp games as the difficulty to win is determined by your opponent not the mode. 

 

Let's be honest someone who puts in 10,000 hours to master AB will smoke most RB players in AB. As well as anyone putting in 10,000 hours in RB will smoke most AB players in RB...

 

Maybe it is just the competetive nature of the subject matter (aerial combat) compared to in group Mentality that results in these posts. 

 

Maybe it is Gaijin's fault using RB as the basis for their thunder league esports stuff... Even though RB in my eyes is the least esports ready mode.

 

-you can't balance the vehicles by performance because the performance should be historical in RB... So you can throw out the balance that is needed for dote/arena shooter style esports. 

 

-for the realistic esports approach like Iracing you would need to come as close to the real thing as possible and for that approach sim is far better as it is the closest to real flying. 

 

Maybe gaijin tried to have both and chose the mode that is neither close to real flying nor balancable... Wich explains why it failed. 

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2 hours ago, DerGrafVonZahl said:

All in all it is a weird concept of thinking that one mode is more difficult than the other as winning and losing isn't depending on how complex the mode is. It is determined by the question if your team is better in this environment than your opponents team... In a sense the complexity of the mode really doesn't matter.

On that same vein of thought, both mode can be considered equally difficult. Its just that one has to do more in AB because it is in theory easier to shoot someone down in AB compared to RB as there are more flight assists and there is a lead indicator. For example, in my experience, in RB, a good match is one where the player gets the equivalent of three kills or so while a good match in AB is the equivalent of about seven kills depending on extraneous circumstances.

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No idea why there is a stigma for some, since every game mode is vastly different so it all boils down to personal preference in the end. I almost exclusively play AB since it has been the only mode I've enjoyed thus far, though I do admit I've never really tried simulator battle since RB already seems to slow for my liking.

 

To each their own, though. Just play what you enjoy and don't worry about what anyone else has to say. ^_-

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5 hours ago, Tanman49 said:

On that same vein of thought, both mode can be considered equally difficult. Its just that one has to do more in AB because it is in theory easier to shoot someone down in AB compared to RB as there are more flight assists and there is a lead indicator.

 

I would even disagree here. Because with the boosted flight model in AB the instructor is way better to keep a damaged and therefore unstable aircraft in the air than in RB. So the planes in AB will appear to be more durable and therefore harder to shoot down at least when it comes to "hits needed for a kill". 

 

Also for a kill you need to position yourself in a way that you can hit your opponent while he is trying to prevent it or even trying to shoot you. This opponent has the same assists. So it boils down to the opponent again. 

 

The only thing I would say is true for ab is that there are usually bigger furballls so the players need to keep track of more planes in their area. The result is that it is easier to catch someone off guard who isn't looking for you or target fixated on someone else. 

 

5 hours ago, Tanman49 said:

 

For example, in my experience, in RB, a good match is one where the player gets the equivalent of three kills or so while a good match in AB is the equivalent of about seven kills depending on extraneous circumstances.

 

But that is due to mission parameters. RB air has no respawns, while AB Air has. So you have more tries and more targets. 

 

You can get far more kills than 3 in RB EC battles but the Difficult of normal RB and RB EC is the same. All that has changed are some mission parameters 

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13 hours ago, DerGrafVonZahl said:

 

I would even disagree here. Because with the boosted flight model in AB the instructor is way better to keep a damaged and therefore unstable aircraft in the air than in RB. So the planes in AB will appear to be more durable and therefore harder to shoot down at least when it comes to "hits needed for a kill". 

 

Also for a kill you need to position yourself in a way that you can hit your opponent while he is trying to prevent it or even trying to shoot you. This opponent has the same assists. So it boils down to the opponent again. 

 

The only thing I would say is true for ab is that there are usually bigger furballls so the players need to keep track of more planes in their area. The result is that it is easier to catch someone off guard who isn't looking for you or target fixated on someone else. 

 

 

But that is due to mission parameters. RB air has no respawns, while AB Air has. So you have more tries and more targets. 

 

You can get far more kills than 3 in RB EC battles but the Difficult of normal RB and RB EC is the same. All that has changed are some mission parameters 

All I was saying was that the "bar for excellence" in terms of number of kills, assists, etc. is different between the game modes based on the difficulty modifiers (things like flight assist and leading indicator for AB and one spawn and less enemies for RB). 

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4 minutes ago, Tanman49 said:

All I was saying was that the "bar for excellence" in terms of number of kills, assists, etc. is different between the game modes based on the difficulty modifiers (things like flight assist and leading indicator for AB and one spawn and less enemies for RB). 

 

but it isn't have the RB assists with the AB mission design (respawns and small maps) and you will see the same number of kills as a "bar of excellence"

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4 hours ago, DerGrafVonZahl said:

 

but it isn't have the RB assists with the AB mission design (respawns and small maps) and you will see the same number of kills as a "bar of excellence"

It is undeniable that AB and RB are different environments, and thus, performance outcomes insofar as they can be measured will be different. If I might revise my argument, the primary reason why the performance metrics will be different between AB and RB is because the number of planes each team has access to is different and not because of the assists or lack there of in each game mode. For example, in AB, I've seen people get 20-30 kills. This is literally impossible in RB because there aren't 20-30 enemies to kill. In AB, one is given many opportunities to kill while in RB that opportunity may only exist 2-4 times a game. Although, a secondary reason for the performance disparity might be that there are less navigation and combat assists in RB, and thus, it takes longer on average (I would assume) to get a kill.

 

I only offer kills and kill assists as a measure of excellence because they are quantifiable metrics.

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I say play whatever you find fun, I enjoy arcade because it is fun and is not as slow and static as realistic. Some people like realistic, and that is fine, but it is no reason to put down other people for simply enjoying another mode, especially when one finds that mode and its players 'inferior' somehow.

 

On 24/07/2020 at 16:04, Tanman49 said:

I really enjoy it in AB when a player puts in the chat to everyone something like, "wait, this is ab? I thought I selected rb."

 

It's like they're virtue signaling that they are one of the skilled, cool people who play RB, and they just have to tell everyone. How insecure and pathetic.

That's my interpretation at least.

I never understood it either. That one person said it is embarrassing, but if it is so embarrassing, why announce it to everyone? 

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3 hours ago, Tanman49 said:

It is undeniable that AB and RB are different environments, and thus, performance outcomes insofar as they can be measured will be different.

 

Why? The measurement "kills" is the same, the assists are the same for every player. So getting a k/D of 3 for example is as good in AB then it is in RB. Getting x number of kills per match is determined by mission design not the game mode. the number of kills per game in RB EC is vastly different to a regular RB game but both are RB  with the same assist. That was your claim, that 5 kills in a game is different level of skill in AB then in RB, even when the same mission design is applied (as you say it is due to the assists not the mission) 

 

You forget that all players get these assists so performance of the player is reliant on the players proficiency in the environment compared to the opponents. 

 

3 hours ago, Tanman49 said:

 

If I might revise my argument, the primary reason why the performance metrics will be different between AB and RB is because the number of planes each team has access to is different and not because of the assists or lack there of in each game mode. For example, in AB, I've seen people get 20-30 kills. This is literally impossible in RB because there aren't 20-30 enemies to kill. In AB, one is given many opportunities to kill while in RB that opportunity may only exist 2-4 times a game. Although, a secondary reason for the performance disparity might be that there are less navigation and combat assists in RB, and thus, it takes longer on average (I would assume) to get a kill.

 

Stop right here. 

 

The number of planes per match is a mission design characteristic NOT a gamemode characteristic. 

 

Because there is RB EC that uses a mission design with infinite respawns and that is still RB. So mission design and gamemode are independent. 

 

Yes regular AB matches happen to use a different mission design than regular RB in random battles. This does not meant the mission design belongs to the gamemode. They are modular. This can be seen often as SB and RB used to share the same mission design 1 to 1. Now sometimes you get RB EC which uses the Mission design that is regularly used by SB called enduring confrontation. This is why I get confused if people call EC a gamemode... It isn't it's a mission design RB is the gamemode. 

 

So if you use the same mission design for AB and RB the "bar of excellence" would be identical. But on the mission design. So it is not dependent on whether you play AB or RB. 

 

3 hours ago, Tanman49 said:

I only offer kills and kill assists as a measure of excellence because they are quantifiable metrics.

 

They are also kinda tricky because their distribution is skewed. Wich is why K/D is a bad measure of skill. 

 

But as is said the amount of possible max kills is dependent on the setup of the mission (respawns allowed, duration, map size) and not the gamemode AB or RB. You can go to custom battles and see how modular they are you can mix and mash mission design with gamemode as you please. 

 

So for your "bar of excellence" you aren't comparing AB and RB but for example Air Dom with Operations (Operations is the classification of the mission design usually used by RB). 

 

Hell I would say that number of kills as a bar of excellence is even vastly different between air Dom and ground strike. 

 

It is dependent on the mission setup and not the gamemodes and their assists. 

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  • 3 weeks later...
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I rarely play RB as it is honestly too slow and too much work. But for the poster who said it’s impossible to get higher kill counts I disagree. My highest is 26 in RB ground and it’s not uncommon to be in double digits. I’ve also had some crappy games in RB so don’t take this as me saying it’s super easy.
 

For those who stigmatize AB just realize it’s their silly opinion and play what you want. 
 

On 25/07/2020 at 17:37, Tanman49 said:

It is undeniable that AB and RB are different environments, and thus, performance outcomes insofar as they can be measured will be different. If I might revise my argument, the primary reason why the performance metrics will be different between AB and RB is because the number of planes each team has access to is different and not because of the assists or lack there of in each game mode. For example, in AB, I've seen people get 20-30 kills. This is literally impossible in RB because there aren't 20-30 enemies to kill. In AB, one is given many opportunities to kill while in RB that opportunity may only exist 2-4 times a game. Although, a secondary reason for the performance disparity might be that there are less navigation and combat assists in RB, and thus, it takes longer on average (I would assume) to get a kill.

 

I only offer kills and kill assists as a measure of excellence because they are quantifiable metrics.

 

Edited by MagicMarker
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@MagicMarker

This was written about AIRFORCE

In RB Air every player only got one vehicle, one life, like in Counterstrike or World of Tanks.

You die, you are gone. No respawn.

 

And on both sides only 16 players will spawn.

Now do the math.

Edited by anyuser
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I've been around since the BoS days and played almost exclusively Sim over there.  It was much harder back then than SB even is now...you don't even need to worry about trim nowdays.  When I got my PS4 WT was about the only thing worth playing for it back then and most of my friends just stuck to Arcade.  RB hadn't become the mode for the majority yet or at least the majority with the loudest voices.  

 

That said let's have an honest conversation about AB/RB/SB.  Mainly RB because they're the ones causing all the trouble for the other modes.  First if you check the stats for vehicles (Thunderskill) you'll find AB stats more closely follow SB stats.  I find that odd because you'd expect RB to be closer but they're really their own mode in their own very odd niche.  

 

RB mode excluding Naval is budget mode let's be honest.

 

They're a miserable whiiny player base ruining ironically the one thing they claim to like...realism.  Let's just go down some complaints and you follow it back to the player who said it and it's almost always  RB player. 

 

Here's a few:

 

  1. Premium vehicles are pay to win and hurting us poor "hard working" in the sense of the game RB players 
  2. Premium vehicles are the worst players on the team because some new guy bought a XM-1 or F-86.  I don't know how they are winning all the time and dragging the team down but I'm not a RB player
  3. Bomber/ground attack are no skill but when one gets by and wins the match....nerf nerf nerf nerf.  Bombers are no skill they deserve no crew that can fight back reasonably, no realistic damage model, no points, the person who picked them should be shot, their dog poisoned, etc etc.  As we all know the most realistic thing ever is that fighters won WW2 and fighters are offensive vehicles not defending against ground attack and bombers.  Once the Spitfires and Mustangs were over Germany the Wehrmacht just surrendered because I mean they're fast plane and turn really well. B-17? IL-2? What are those?
  4. BnZ planes are fine just never actually fly them BnZ because then they need to be nerfed.  Turn fight only...vertical or horizontal is the only skill.  P-47 is OP.  Poor honest hardworking BF109 is always at a disadvantage it's actually the hardest vehicle to play next to the Tiger or KV tank.   
  5. Camping the airbase as a fighter and someone J'ed out....unfair Gaijin unfair I used so much skill flying around this airbase which somehow lacks anyone able to shoot my low flying fighter down. 
  6. Spend money on a crew? Why? Gaijin only ever wants money and I've been playing this game 6 years RB only and never spent a dime! I support Gaijin by mooching and bitching all day. 
  7. OMG i was bombed in my tank! OP! OP! NERF! and NERF ROCKETS TOO! NERF CHOPPERS!  I mean who expects to ever see an anti tank chopper in a tank? Those are myths made up by Gaijin to sell vehicles to wallet warriors. 

 

I tend to respect the pure RB player less because they seem to never actually support the game financially, hate any sort of mixed play, actually believe premium vehicles are dominating matches all while also dragging their team down, love name tags in the Air because it makes it easier along with the unrealistic gun ranges, love no name tags in RB so they can camp and hide easier, hate the kill cam, but never ever want to go to Sim (unless it's a bomber but shhhhh don't tell their other RB friends).  I mean honestly they get paid more points because their wings can rip off in a dive, they can black out, red out, and don't have lead indicators.  Also the red/black out can be mostly negated with an ace crew. That's somehow harder when most of those are things you rarely face unless you're trying to break your plane.  On ground the lack of name tags and spotting just makes them camp more and they move so little that they'll kill you then cry when you go bomb them because that's the only player you for sure know where they are.  They're a unpleasable lot and why I push heavily for the developers to lean more towards giving the paying players what they want over some BF109 3 mins head on RB guy or the king of skill the corner camping tanker.  I actually want them to have the way airpower works in AB on ground in RB and AB should get RBs once you'r ein the plane you're there until you die system. 

 

Bring your most skilled RB flyers or tankers over and they'll be crushed in SB or AB.  I think they need to just rename it budget mode and give them less points because it's not like they're really playing the mode of realism it's because it's 7 minutes and they make more for doing waaaaay less. 

 

 

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