is Gaijin doing with these abusive spawncampers? - its really very ABUSIVE to kill whole team which is trying to fulfill their objectives, doing tasks, using boosters, etc, to be just "food" for few loosers which spawncamp IN A SQUAD, with totally OP Swedish planes, so its not even possible to get rid of them?

Do something with this, seriously, - this game is almost unplayable also without these guys.

20200718191953_1.jpg

Edited by SID0N

magazine2 (Posted )

Moved to correct section.
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While I can agree it's an issue and generally 'not nice' behaviour. There is one thing you can do that helps most if not all the time. That is diving, immediately after spawning start diving. Those campers normally are just above the spawn area and want to retain their altitude. Thus if you dive, more often than not they will not follow you. Now this is something I did a lot, which not everyone on the team understood more often than not. Thus they still gain a lot of kills, but atleast you don't die by them over and over again.

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erm, thanks, but I wasnt asking what to do.
I WAS ASKING WHAT GAIJIN IS DOING WITH THIS.
I reported them for abuse, you think that they will get banned at least? nope
Gaijin just leave those toxic guys doing this in every battle, which makes the game unplayable to most newcomers (and regular players too)
like that, HOW WE CAN EVEN GET MORE PEOPLE IN THE PLAYERBASE?


 

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23 hours ago, SID0N said:

is Gaijin doing with these abusive spawncampers? - its really very ABUSIVE to kill whole team which is trying to fulfill their objectives, doing tasks, using boosters, etc, to be just "food" for few loosers which spawncamp IN A SQUAD, with totally OP Swedish planes, so its not even possible to get rid of them?

Do something with this, seriously, - this game is almost unplayable also without these guys.

20200718191953_1.jpg

erm, isnt this the air RB section?

Besides, it seems like your mentality was just "I wasn't ready so it wasn't fair". Seriously, get out of that mindset. All it does is hinder you and make you a worse player. Besides it's been brought up plenty of times to the mods, who have said it isn't a violation of the rules.

Looking at your lineup you seem like one of the people who say having 4 Su-2s at 2.0 is balanced.

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spawncamping is more than just "not being ready", it's killing someone before even the PERFECT TASBOT player could evade, because they know exactly where you will spawn, and you are spawned in as vulnerable to damage before you are given control, or the window of safety is so small that you simply cannot escape.

 

There is no way to simply "Git Gud" at countering spawncamping, because it is a strategy specifically meant to kill players at a point when the game itself provides no window of survival.

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1 minute ago, Spindash64 said:

spawncamping is more than just "not being ready", it's killing someone before even the PERFECT TASBOT player could evade, because they know exactly where you will spawn, and you are spawned in as vulnerable to damage before you are given control, or the window of safety is so small that you simply cannot escape.

 

There is no way to simply "Git Gud" at countering spawncamping, because it is a strategy specifically meant to kill players at a point when the game itself provides no window of survival.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in my experience you have well over 10 seconds of spawn protection if you do not shoot. If you shoot it degrades to 2 seconds. Again, a player spawns in with 80% of their max speed in a straight line, so they have more than enough energy to start maneuvering the instant they spawn. If they can immediately nose up for me the second they spawn, they should be able to immediately nose down the second they spawn. 

 

Of course, there is no git gud way to get rid of spawncamping, but one way to do it is maybe not diving after the first Do 217 you see and disregard the full squad of P-47s climbing right in front of you. Especially when you're flying something like a 109 or a J21.

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Willcliff you are the guy who was spawncamping, Lexing, you are the one who killed my bomber at the spawn many times too, you both are are just looser scum.
and Lexing, Su-2s? what you talking about? I dont even have them spaded.

- surely I reported, but Gaijin is doing nothing about that.

btw. how to move to AB discussion?

Edited by SID0N
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7 hours ago, SID0N said:

Willcliff you are the guy who was spawncamping, Lexing, you are the one who killed my bomber at the spawn many times too, you both are are just looser scum.
and Lexing, Su-2s? what you talking about? I dont even have them spaded.

- surely I reported, but Gaijin is doing nothing about that.

btw. how to move to AB discussion?

I'm sorry, did I hurt your feelings while attacking your bomber? Well that's what's supposed to happen. A fighter is supposed to eliminate anything it can shoot at. Calling people losers for playing the altitude game in props? Doesn't matter. I'm gonna continue doing that because this has been presented many times to the mods, who have repeatedly said it is not against the rules. I'm not obliged to make sure that everyone in the match enjoys themselves, we're supposed to shoot at each other, and not to remain passive. I tell you, if you saw my fighter coming out of spawn not paying attention, you would shoot. And then you'd say I wasn't paying attention. Yeah, draw a mirror to yourself. Maybe consider what happened as a way to stop you from ending the game. Please and thank you. 

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altitude? you just camping few meters behind your just spawned targets, killing them and than you saying that we must pay attention, you are pure scum which cant even fight fair play, because you need your OP plane and altitude advantage, even the enemies which doesnt expecting sucher PoS like you, will be shooting them after they even spawn, and to make things worse, you need company of whole squad of same loosers to cover your a** to not being hit. all of this on low and even "average BR" to avoid better players than newcomers.
congrats!


people in "games" where you guys "playing" doesnt have much chance to being active, just few selfish loosers like you remaining active shooting regular players from behind.
how dare you even name your squadron PRO100, you should name it MiniLolipop -2000.

yeah, Gaijin must do something with that.

Edited by SID0N
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On 20/07/2020 at 14:21, SID0N said:

altitude? you just camping few meters behind your just spawned targets, killing them and than you saying that we must pay attention, you are pure scum which cant even fight fair play, because you need your OP plane and altitude advantage, even the enemies which doesnt expecting sucher PoS like you, will be shooting them after they even spawn, and to make things worse, you need company of whole squad of same loosers to cover your a** to not being hit. all of this on low and even "average BR" to avoid better players than newcomers.
congrats!


people in "games" where you guys "playing" doesnt have much chance to being active, just few selfish loosers like you remaining active shooting regular players from behind.
how dare you even name your squadron PRO100, you should name it MiniLolipop -2000.

yeah, Gaijin must do something with that.

Alright, since you're so enamored with this, lets dig into the server replay shall we.


First off, after spawning in a Stirling, you dove straight for a cluster of bases. Notice how only a few of your team climbed. This will be important later.

Spoiler


2020_07.20-13_45.thumb.png.3ae8df9fed3dd

 

Later on, because there were only a few high fighters on your team, and a swarm of 5 on the other, you lost altitude supremacy. As you can see here, no one is left to challenge the reds and they are free to attack anyone as they wish.

2020_07.20-13.52_02.thumb.png.555b2becf32020_07.20-13.52_01.thumb.png.f4f5fb3fde

 

After dying in your stirling, you respawn in a Firefly FR Mk. V. And then you decide to do... this. This bleeds all your airspeed and makes you easy prey for his teammates, who swoop in quickly to take the kill.

2020_07.20-13_56.thumb.png.23b1838f60f53

 

And then, you decide to do the same in a Typhoon, with the same consequence.

2020_07.20-13_57.thumb.png.7d95802ef7aa0

 

You finally decide to dive away instead of blindly climbing, but now you do not have any chance to get above them. They have complete altitude supremacy and with that total air superiority. You are forced low and quickly die to reds in the valley.

2020_07.20-13_59.thumb.png.ec2aa0137278f

 

Then you spawn in a Firebrand TF Mk IV. However you didn't dive as steeply as you could've which led to your demise (again). This isn't RB sir, you can dive away at 90 degrees and not rip your wings.2020_07.20-14_03.thumb.png.33d27c1fe3298

 

 

Eventually, they catch up to you in the valley and kill you, and at the same time the game ends.

 

Every one of your deaths were caused by tunnel vision and lack of energy. More than once you were just trying to dive away towards the objectives, but not diving to stay alive. As a result you died every time you attempted to attack them, and every time you went for grounds you died because you were jumped. That makes up 5 of your 8 deaths, which really doesn't make you look good.

2020.07.20-13.45.png

 

 

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If Air AB spawncamping is a problem to you, you haven't yet learned how to deal with it. If you want to learn how to deal with it, try doing it yourself. You will quickly see the limits and how to use these limits to get around it.

I don't consider it a problem, unless your team (or you in this case) starts to feed these guys.

Edited by Dodo_Dud
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Wait, he zoomclimed against an J21 (a plane that is build for headons and not much else) with bombs STRAPPED ON?!?

 

Good choice...

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yeah, I shot some hits to some of them and then I dived for Pillboxes.

I am not talking about what I did wrong, I am talking about problem of squad spqwncamping.
Lexing is a spawncamper, so he is trying to manipulate all this thats my (and our team) fault
nobody in the team except those loosers going straight ahead with his squad to enemy spawn, its just cowards, thats all.
thats what I am trying to point out here.
that those few guys killing whole enemy team when they spawn from behind.
people may be newcomers, ppl may need to do some tasks, using boosters, as regular play. but they cant when they are just cowardly killed from behind after spawn.
 

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Being spawncamped, when both teams start at the same alt is always a fault of the team.

Even more if they give away the high alt for free.

 

And the 2. fault of the team is to feed them. It is not much of a problem to avoid a spawncamper. With some bombers maybe more, when you know about them (you can even see their red dots on the small map), choosing a bomber is your own decission.

But with fighters (and fighter bombers) as well as attackers, it is no problem to get away and either climb offside to challenge them or to eat through the groundunits for winning the match.

The problem is, that many players try to challenge them over and over again from their starting position with worse and worse planes. Against someone with better energy state.

 

They won't come down to deep, because they could be in the line of fire of a high spawning "bomber" with good frontal arment or in the area of fire of the airfield flak, that does a decent job slowly wearing down your plane, if you are to low.

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20 hours ago, ____Lexing____ said:

 I tell you, if you saw my fighter coming out of spawn not paying attention, you would shoot.

 

Me, no. If I find myself above the red spawn as a result of combat or bomber escourting, I will not dive down on spawing planes unless they climb to attack me.

 

The other day I counted 5 red planes, all fighters, above the blue spawn. I spawned in a P47 and dived away with the intension of side climbing and coming back to spawn. However, one of the reds must have had good speed or was diving and followed me down, tried to evade but died after a total of 32 seconds. Lifespan 32 seconds, there is no fun in that. And if the games not fun then we stop playing.

 

I agree that interdiction is a valid strategy but it must take place between spawn and the objectives, not above spawn.

 

Simply increase the distance between spawns and increase the protection time. That way by the time protection expires a plane could fly to the original spawn point and on the way make the call to climb, dive etc without been jumped. I would also put a countdown on a plane, if you get to close to the red spawn and stay there, boom.

 

The above is not a perfect solution but it gives time and protection to players spawing in and prevents camping. The larger map will give all plenty of space to engage in arial combat.

 

Cheers

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17 minutes ago, anyuser said:

Being spawncamped, when both teams start at the same alt is always a fault of the team.

I cannot agree with you here, at least in the case that was stated by the OP. When a pre-formed squad wants to take over the high ground to go spawncamping, there is pretty much nothing random players can do to prevent that. The squad will be covering each other can use voice chat to quickly coordinate. A random team has to first identify threats, group up and coordinate all by typing (and we all know how easy it is to even read chat while flying). There's no contest.

Only when that squad are the only ones on their team that climb versus a sizeable part of their enemies are they likely to be defeated before they get to the spawn.

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Spawn camping is probably 50% of why I haven't played air battles in a long time. Spawn camping just destroys the fun for everybody except the spawn campers. (The other 50% is BnZ isn't fun to me even if it's not at spawn. Turnfighting is really the only part of air battles I find interesting and fun.)

 

Perhaps spawning everybody at max or near max altitude could address the problem (except Gaijin doesn't think it's a problem)? That way you don't have one team gaining altitude advantage over the other's spawn, but they could maintain advantage over the rest of the map if they keep at spawn altitude and the other team dives. Then it truly is their fault. Also this might help bombers keep fighter escorts and get more fighters to attack enemy bombers, because they'd all start at basically the same altitude instead of having to climb up to reach the bombers (for both escorting and attacking purposes). I realize different planes have different ceilings, so this would spawn many fighters above their effective ceiling, but this seems a reasonable approach in arcade. Those fighters would eventually have to reduce altitude but at least they've have a fighting chance against attempted spawn campers.

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4 hours ago, *Maj_Fox said:

 

Me, no. If I find myself above the red spawn as a result of combat or bomber escourting, I will not dive down on spawing planes unless they climb to attack me.

 

The other day I counted 5 red planes, all fighters, above the blue spawn. I spawned in a P47 and dived away with the intension of side climbing and coming back to spawn. However, one of the reds must have had good speed or was diving and followed me down, tried to evade but died after a total of 32 seconds. Lifespan 32 seconds, there is no fun in that. And if the games not fun then we stop playing.

 

I agree that interdiction is a valid strategy but it must take place between spawn and the objectives, not above spawn.

 

Simply increase the distance between spawns and increase the protection time. That way by the time protection expires a plane could fly to the original spawn point and on the way make the call to climb, dive etc without been jumped. I would also put a countdown on a plane, if you get to close to the red spawn and stay there, boom.

 

The above is not a perfect solution but it gives time and protection to players spawing in and prevents camping. The larger map will give all plenty of space to engage in arial combat.

 

Cheers

In my experience the locations of the spawn never really needs to change, as the current ~10 seconds of spawn protection is more than enough for players to immediately dolphin dive.

 

However, I suspect the reason why it still is a problem is because spawncampers rarely fly directly over spawn, they tend to actually hang right in front of it. This disguises their altitude advantage and entices players to climb for them, and then the campers loop over and take the kills. This is a hundred percent on the player, as 90% of those engagements happen outside of spawn rather than in it, with players sometimes living up to 2 minutes or more. Another reason is that 90% of players will just fly in a straight line from spawn and not pay any attention whatsoever, which in that case the campers can simply wait right outside of the spawn and pick up the unsuspecting buffoonheads, who then cry spawn camping while in reality they were already halfway to the main furball. 

 

Regarding bomber escorting, I can tell you from experience that freshly spawned planes will always climb to attack you because they think you are an easy kill. When I have 20+ kill games maybe about 3 of the kills were unsuspecting fighters, 4 were unsuspecting bombers, and the rest are people who respawned and voluntarily prophanged themselves trying to catch me, and because I can't leave them alone (otherwise my friendly bombers are toast) I have to deal with them. I personally only dive on people to enrage them and make them want to kill me, then prey off their desire to get more kills.

Edited by ____Lexing____
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On 20/07/2020 at 14:21, SID0N said:

how dare you even name your squadron PRO100, you should name it MiniLolipop -2000.

that has a nice ring to it

 

you really can’t  complain if you died to j21s by going head on and prophanging. These are basically the only advantages that plane has. Also, if you have a 3 man squad dominating you spawn, you might want to consider leaving

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4 hours ago, ____Lexing____ said:

However, I suspect the reason why it still is a problem is because spawncampers rarely fly directly over spawn, they tend to actually hang right in front of it. This disguises their altitude advantage and entices players to climb for them, and then the campers loop over and take the kills. This is a hundred percent on the player, as 90% of those engagements happen outside of spawn rather than in it, with players sometimes living up to 2 minutes or more. Another reason is that 90% of players will just fly in a straight line from spawn and not pay any attention whatsoever, which in that case the campers can simply wait right outside of the spawn and pick up the unsuspecting buffoonheads, who then cry spawn camping while in reality they were already halfway to the main furball. 

 

Regarding bomber escorting, I can tell you from experience that freshly spawned planes will always climb to attack you because they think you are an easy kill. When I have 20+ kill games maybe about 3 of the kills were unsuspecting fighters, 4 were unsuspecting bombers, and the rest are people who respawned and voluntarily prophanged themselves trying to catch me, and because I can't leave them alone (otherwise my friendly bombers are toast) I have to deal with them. I personally only dive on people to enrage them and make them want to kill me, then prey off their desire to get more kills.

These are my observations too.

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Spawn camping . Totally balanced and fair. Two players decide the outcome of the match, I didn't have a better match, I really enjoyed it.

Very nice game, when one or two players can destroy it for the other 30 players.
Is it possible that this is allowed. Whoever decides this is okay, obviously neither plays the game nor is interested in the game. .

 

 

People this is too much, fix this.

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Usually 4 to 8 players (combined in both teams) do decide the match, while the others are just background actors who do something usefull sometimes.

This can be a well played groundpounder squad too, that is able to end a battle in less then 5min. I don't see anything else here...

 

And sorry, people feeding themself to eRekt all the time. Its more like roasted pidgeons flying aiming for their mouthes like anything else...

You can't get 27 kills in another way then just by players going for low quality bait over and over again.

 

Some say people learn by pain. I have seen players wasting 5+ spawns to such guys, everytime climbing against them again and again, with worse and worse planes.

Doing the same thing over and over again, hopeing for another outcome is simply madness.

Edited by anyuser
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