Stona

Update 1.99.0.85 - BR & Economy Update

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BR changes

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Research, purchase, crew training costs and other related parameters for vehicles have been changed (tablesheet with the main parameters).

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All economy indicators for vehicles will be changed according to rank.

 

Ground forces tech tree changes:

 

  • USA:
    • M15A1 CGMC — moved to rank II.
    • M19 — moved to rank III.
  • Germany:
    • Begleitpanzer 57 and TAM — moved to another research branch, after SPz BMP-1.
    • RakJPz 2 and RakJPz 2 (HOT) — moved to another research branch, after Jagdtiger.
  • Italy: 
    • 90/53 M41M - moved before 75/46 M43
    • 75/46 M43 - has been positioned out of the group. 
    • 105/25 M43 and 75/34 M43 have been grouped.
  • USSR:
    • Т-55A and T-62 — switched places.
    • Т-62 and T-62M-1 — have been grouped.
    • BMP-3 and Object 685 — moved to rank VI.
    • KV-2 (1939) — moved out of the group, now located before the KV-1S — moved to rank II.  
    • SU-76М - moved to rank I, ahead of the ZiS-30
    • SU-152 - location moved after the SU-85 and before the SU-85M.
    • ISU-152 - moved to rank III and grouped with the SU-152
  • China
    • SU-76М (China) - moved to rank I, ahead of the LVT(ZiS-2)
  • Japan:  
    • Ho-Ro - moved to rank I.

 

Aviation tech trees changes:

 

  • USA:
    • SB2U-2 and SB2U-3 — have been grouped.
    • A-26B-10 and A-26B-50 — have been grouped.
  • Germany:
    • Ta 152 H-1 and Ta 152 C-3 — have been grouped.
    • Me 410 A-1/U4 and Me 410 B-2/U4 — have been grouped.
    • He 111 H-16 — have been moved to rank II.
    • Do 217 K-1 and Do 217 M-1 — have been grouped.
  • USSR:
    • IL-10 and IL-10 (1946) — have been grouped.
    • Yak-9UT and Yak-3U — switched places.
  • France:
    • D.500 and D.501 — have been grouped.

 

Navy tech tree changes:

 

  • Germany:
    • MZ1 and Jaguar-Klasse (140) — switched places.
  • Italy:
    • VAS 201 and MS-15 — switched places.
    • MV-611 and MS-472 — switched places.

 

Ground forces SB setup changes:

 

  • Setup 1_5
    • Removed: T18E2, Т-126
    • Added: 75/18 M41, 75/32 M41
  • Setup 2_5
    • Removed: Mk.VIA AA, T18E2, Panzerjäger I, M14/41, 47/32 L40, 75/18 M41, 75/32 M41
    • Added: 15 cm Pz.W.42, T 34 747 (r), 75/34 M43, 105/25 M43, M43 "G.C.Leoncello", M4 Hybrid
  • Setup 3_5
    • Removed: ZSD63, M4A2 (USSR), Т-50, 75/34 M42
      • Added: T18E2, 75/46 M43
  • Setup 8_5
    • Respawn point costs for heavy tanks have been increased to 450 RP.
  • Setup 8_2_5
    • Removed: Object 906, Т-10
  • Setup 10_5
    • Removed: Centurion Action X, Begleitpanzer 57, Swingfire, M247, M60A3 TTS

The current provided changelog reflects the major changes within the game as part of this Update. Some updates, additions and fixes may not be listed in the provided notes. War Thunder is constantly improving and specific fixes may be implemented without the client being updated.

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Isn't this the wrong chart you linked? It says April 2020.

Edited by Merlin1809

Stona (Posted )

Yup, some sabotage :) Working to solve it, catch spy and provide you proper one :)
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Replays will be locked till we will be able to post some proper and valid tables :)

Sorry for the confusion guys. 

 

Today's sponsor of the update is The Boomtown Rats with their "I Don't Like Mondays" song :)

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Tables updated.

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The Su-7b has been moved to 10.0,effectively making it useless because of these reasons:

  • Very bad energy retention
  • Huge plane and very fragile
  • Poor manoeuvrability, you will have problems dodging air-to-air missiles
  • Very unstable
  • Less than 5seconds of ammo
  • Below average roll rate
  • and the THING HAS NO MISSILES IN 10.0 so a plane which only weapons are speed and climb rate is now fighting with planes with better speed and climb rate AND missiles at the same BR.

 

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I have some somewhat strong opinions on some of the helicopter changes I'll mention here.

 

Firstly, why has the AH-64D and Apache AH.1 gone to 10.7, but the AH-64DJP remains 10.3? They're all identical bar the Starstreaks the Apache AH.1 gets.

Secondly, I want to discuss some of the other discrepancies. Helicopters like the AH-1Z (at the minute), the Tiger HAD and AH-64As all fit the same role. All have missiles, MAWS, flares etc., and only AGM-114B Hellfires. With these, the Tiger HAD has less Hellfires maximum than the US helicopters, that can all take 16. So why is the Tiger HAD 10.7, the same BR as the objectively superior AH-64D, and not at least the same BR as the AH-64A with only B Hellfires? Even if the HAD got K Hellfires (which it should do imo), it would still not be the level of the Ds as they have more flares, radar for both ground and air, the ability to use Longbow Hellfires in the future, a better gun and more Hellfires.

 

I propose the following revisions to helicopter BRs:

AH-64DJP: 10.3 -> 10.7

Reason: Identical to the US AH-64D. No reason to be lower,

AH-1Z: 10.0 -> 10.3

Reason: Better than the G-Lynx and Lynx AH.1 (more Hellfires, more unhistorical TOW-2s, more rockets, MAWS, CCIP, chin gun) and equivalent to the AH-64A.

Tiger HAD: 10.7 -> 10.3

Reason: Worse than the AH-64Ds in every way and arguably worse than the AH-64As, but at least should be the same BR.

Tiger HAP: 10.3 -> 10.0

Reason: No Hellfires at all, making it arguably worse than the Lynx. Still not equivalent to the AH-64A Peten, it was fine where it was. Other helis can change around it but it's firmly 10.0 whilstever it doesn't have long-ranged AGMs like Hellfires.

Edited by QuantumLeclerc
posted before finishing by accident. Whoops!
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Many mistakes in this update, and the feedback thread was completely ignored. 

 

No Panther has any place at 5.3. The Jumbo has no place at 5.3 or above. Helicopters get BR updates even though helicopter EC still ignores BRs. More overpriced repair costs for nerfed bombers. No reduction in bomber BRs for Tu-4 or Vautour. Leopard 2K has no place at 9.3. 

 

Overall one of the most negative recent BR and economy updates I can think of. 

Smin1080p (Posted )

The feedback thread was not ignored at all. In fact changes and suggestions from the thread were implemented where possible and some like the G.91 reversed.
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I don't get why the br repair costs for the Leopards have gone down yet the British Chieftain's go UP. Playing Britain at that Br is hell at the moment because all you face is Germany and Russia and we get rolled every time. Without premium I'm making losses on at least 70% of matches I play even if we win. 

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Hi everyone,

 

I can see some pretty good changes here, like: Panther D to 5.3, 10.7 max BR, Object 279 to 8.7, some repair cost changes and so on. Sad thing is, that 10.7 solves almost nothing, but it is definitely step in right direction.

Edited by _BSD_Sanciny
Reaction to changes in changelog.
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Why was the Lightning F.6 moved down? It's a mix of the F-104A/C and Su-7 but better. Not many people actually have the Lightning, but why move it down from 10.0? Seems really strange, was it an accident? The chart lists the Lightning as the Javelin for some reason so maybe that's it?

 

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The BR change spreadsheets says the Javelin moved from 10.0 to 9.7 in RB. If you mean it should have been moved from 8.7 to 8.3, it would be fine, since it performs horribly.

But i think you meant the Lightning is moved from 10.0 to 9.7

Stona (Posted )

It's Lighting F.6, error fixed. Thanks!
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Nice to see some changes to the Sim GF lineups. Thank you.

 

It'd be nice also to see some or all of the captured aircraft removed from these lineups. Most of them have no ground ordnance anyway and add nothing to the game except to cause grief and confusion.

And many of the captured and lend lease tanks need to be removed. Getting tired of seeing Italian M18's going around with US flags.

 

Really the Italian WW2 ground vehicle lineups are a mess. Full of time travelers and lend lease vehicles from the US. It's killing immersion and gameplay.

 

Gaijin please do the right thing. Please stop adding vehicles that make the game worse. Fine if they are in RB and AB but please not SB.

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The chart says  "javelin Fw mk.9" 10.0 move down to 9.7 in RB, it should refer to the BAC Lightning F.6

 

Also on the topic of this, the starfighter A and C and Su-7B were moved to 10.0 because it turned out they were overperfoming against subsonic planes and made for frustrating gameplay where the only way to take them down was more or less to wait and hope they make a mistake, correct ?

 

Now with this change the Lightning, a mach2 capable interceptor that shares many of the strenght and weaknesses of the starfighter, is moved to 9.7 and it has 16G pulling missiles, something the SU-7 and Starfighter did not have. The lightning also received a buff to low altitude performance last patch

 

How come this change was deemed wise, it literally replaces the starfighter and Su-7B problem with an even more powerful machine.

 

Now instead of just dodging an aircraft going about 500kph faster than your subsonic plane (at lower altitudes, where most combat happens, higher up the speed problem is even worse) at the last second, you can also worry about the even faster missile it carries 

 

It's a bad change, it just shows that like the other 10.0s the lightning can't compete with 10.3 and a serious BR decompression is needed, because this thing should not be able to face an A-5 sabre and be on the same BR as planes that can't even go half as fast and have worse missiles

Edited by AggressiveRecon
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5 hours ago, Remmerboy said:

Lightning is moved from 10.0 to 9.7

 

@Stona - is it just a monday bug or "as intended"??

 

Spoiler

1IU0UFj.jpg



BTW - do you really just ignored all our feedback regarding F-89D and unplayable Axis jets at 7.0-7.3:

1. Realistic battles: F-89D from 7.3 to 7.7

Reason: presents of her at 7.3 ruined ww2 jet matches to level noone wants to play early axis jets.

 

And this single post made by @BrassWolf  scored 60 upvotes!

 

Link to the post:

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/491143-planned-battle-rating-changes-june-2020/&do=findComment&comment=8571275

 

 

 

2. F89D: RB from 7.3 to 7.7 it's fast and has excellent engine power, only slacking a bit on rip speed and it has spammable proxy fused rockets that shouldn't work as they do, frankly as it is it should never have been added but since it was the least they could do is make it so it doesn't get to club as heavily, it's singlehandedly managed to make an entire jet bracket a chore to play. This plane exists soley as an absurdly expensive premium cashgrab and it's one of my least favourite things gaijin have added in recent years.

 

Link to the post:

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/491143-planned-battle-rating-changes-june-2020/&do=findComment&comment=8571370

 

 

 

3. The F-89D must go up to 7.7. It destroys 6.7-7.3 MM completely. The queue times (that you apparently care about the most) are over the roof because players refuse to play this broken BR range due to this singular monstrocity


Link to the post:

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/491143-planned-battle-rating-changes-june-2020/&do=findComment&comment=8571363

 

 

 

4. F-89D, BR 7.3 --> BR 7.7 or 8.0

 

Premium aircraft which as 7.3 for many months has been ruining the game experience between 6.7 and 7.3 BR. Controversial weapon implementation from the beginning and grossly inadequate BR:

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/468525-f-89d-is-absolutely-ridiculous-and-exemplifies-gaijins-greed/

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/486785-f89d-should-be-removed-out-of-the-game/

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/489628-f-89d-needs-an-uptier/

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/483207-f-89d-is-op/

 

The situation is so toxic that 6.7-7.3 BR bracket has become depopulated on Axis side - there are not many players who want to play the role of continuous victim inside the zone of broken fair play and spoiled historical immersion. Me-262A vs F-89D supported by other post-war jets? No, thx:

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/490966-f89d-long-wait-time-to-find-a-game/

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/489446-f89d-and-mixed-mm-at-around-70-73/

 

Link to the post:

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/491143-planned-battle-rating-changes-june-2020/&do=findComment&comment=8571459
 

 

 

5. F-89D have to go up.

It out performs, out guns and out damage model (yes it can takes insane amount hits and requires a lot of time on target time for enemies taking it down) everything. It single-handedly ruined match making on its br range and made other jets unplayable. Nobody want to play against or even same team with it. If it get raised to 7.7 it still will be the best 7.7 and better than most of the 8.0 in the game.

 

Link to the post:

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/491143-planned-battle-rating-changes-june-2020/&do=findComment&comment=8571545

 

 

 

6. [RB] The F-89D should go to 7.7, it absolutely annihilates every other plane at 7.3 and below, while it can hold its own really well in uptiers.

 

Link to the post:

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/491143-planned-battle-rating-changes-june-2020/&do=findComment&comment=8571514

 

 

 

7. F89D 7.3 -> 7.7 This plane really needs an uptier, its spam has made early axis jets a really toxic experience, with planes like 262a1 now having 42% winrate.

 

Link to the post:

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/491143-planned-battle-rating-changes-june-2020/&do=findComment&comment=8571658

 

 

 

8. F89D goes to 7.7 (F89D performs much better than other jets at 7.3)

 

Link to the post:

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/491143-planned-battle-rating-changes-june-2020/&do=findComment&comment=8571614

 

 

 

9. F-89D should definitely be 7.7 at least, since it has single-handedly killed the 6.7-7.3 bracket.

 

Link to the post:

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/491143-planned-battle-rating-changes-june-2020/&do=findComment&comment=8571705

 

 

 

10. F89D to 8.0. Try playing allied 7.3, good luck getting to game below 5/6 minutes. Play 10 games, waste hour in queue. That's because german starter jet players have left. There is nothing they can do against the Scorpion.

 

Link to the post:

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/491143-planned-battle-rating-changes-june-2020/&do=findComment&comment=8572161

 

 

 

11. As someone who plays the F-89D a lot and loves it, I'd be all for it being moved up. I've frankly found it to be better in air-to-air than the 7.7 F-89B, so there's absolutely no justification for it being lower in BR than it unless it gets corrected to how it historically was. The jet shouldn't actually have proximity fuse rockets, they're just easier to implement than what it actually had. IRL, its fire control system would guide it onto an intercept course so that it could fire from the front or behind and have a decent chance to physically hit the target. Rather than proximity fuse rockets (which weren't even in service until after the F-89s were retired, IIRC), it would be more realistic to give it a lead indicator for any target it selects, so long as it keeps it in the detection cone of its radar. This would make it more skill-based to use, since it wouldn't be able to spam proxy-fuse rockets like an airborne flak battery, but should still be usable. With that change, it could be a balanced 7.3, but in its current incredibly broken state an increase to 7.7 is the MINIMUM required. It could be 8.0 and probably still be usable, TBQH.

 

Link to the post:

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/491143-planned-battle-rating-changes-june-2020/&do=findComment&comment=8572098

 

 

 

12. The F-89D needs to be uptiered ASAP, and here is why.

 

There is no single way for a 262 pilot or any Axis pilot in that BR range to kill it, it outperforms and out guns everyone by a landslide, it has two afterburning engines at 7.3, which makes it pretty much untouchable, it's always ssignificantly above everyone so it doesn't require much skill to just keep the speed up and nobody will ever come close to you, now add to that it's proximity fuse rockets (which it never even had irl) that shoot dead accurate for multiple kilometers with them barely even dropping or even seperating from eachother, i've multiple times been killed by them after extending away and being like 3.5km away from it and all the sudden 2 rockets come perfectly aligned and take my wings off. Like this is not ok!
[...]

It's killing the mood for every one who flyes Axis 7.0, i started playing War Thunder because of the iconic Me 262, and i believe many others did too, just like so many started playing Tanks because of the legendary Tiger. Please give us the respect we deserve and do this for our sake. I still believe in you Gaijin. Peace.

 

Link to the post:

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/491143-planned-battle-rating-changes-june-2020/&do=findComment&comment=8572371

 

 

 

13. F-89D - take this rocket miracle away to 7.7, it outperforms all Axis planes in speed and climb on 7.3, while spamming them rockets with radio fuses. They ruined early jet matches, no one wants to play on the Me 262/Ar234 

 

Link to the post:

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/491143-planned-battle-rating-changes-june-2020/&do=findComment&comment=8572313

 


14. Recommendation: F-89B/F-89D should all move up atleast +0.3 BR slots

Reason:
Well to begin with the F89-D it basically outperforms every other Vehicle at its BR i mean 1000kph+ is just ridiculous compared to almost every other Vehicle at 7.3 and 7.7. The F89B is still gonna out speed every 8.0 German plane and the only real competition is gonna be Soviet or maybe French planes.

 

Link to the post:

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/491143-planned-battle-rating-changes-june-2020/&do=findComment&comment=8572491

 

 

 

15. F-89D to 7.7                           

Its op at 7.3 now, people dont want to play low tier axis jets anymore, this plane ruining this br.

 

Link to the post:
https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/491143-planned-battle-rating-changes-june-2020/&do=findComment&comment=8572546

 

 

16. F-89B and F-89D to 8.0  - I believe this is the first case of pay to win in air battles, this needs to end ASAP. F-89s have completely dominated 7.0-7.7 bracket, completely ruining early jet gameplay. Right now queue times for US at early Tier V are anywhere between 5 and 10 minutes simply because there are no enemies to be found - nobody wants to be cannon fodder for OP, blatantly pay to win plane.

 

Link to the post:

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/491143-planned-battle-rating-changes-june-2020/&do=findComment&comment=8572811

 

 

 

 

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Glad to see the changes an tech tree rearrangements good stuff guys :)

Two things tho on the spreadsheet theres a error with the javelin named instead of the Lightning for the Br changes of the Lighting see below.

 

Spoiler

381840632_Battleratingspreadsheeterror.t

 

Oh and the Japanese apache is 10.3 while the american and british one are 10.7 think that is a error as well because in the Table it moved from 10.3 to 10.7 See below.

Spoiler

339460671_JapaneseApachebattleratingerro

 

Bmp-2m moving from 9.3 to 9.0 though nahh I'm not on board with that one should have let it be a little more at 9.3 with the recent engine buff and saw how it would pan out now not fighting top tier mbts.

 

Other than that so far looks good I believe the AH-1Z should have moved from 10.0 to 10.3 like the Mi-35M* tho they are comparable.

Lightning F.6 moving to 9.7 tho ehhh nah with Mig-21F13 etc moving to 10.0 I think the lightning would be much more comfortable there I know the stats caused this but nah it'll be fine at 10.0.

 

Oh and as for the Su-7B being 10.0 atm its in a odd spot for sure but i think its more a limit of the current Battlerating spreads it'll have to tough it out a little but it shouldn't be to much of a problem.

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