How #&^%$* are you against an Iowa/NC/SoDak class battleship with radar/computer guided guns.

[Cotoye 0]

I'm sure that EVERYONE can agree that HE shells from an Iowa are overkill, but it never did stop there, oh no!!!!  we outfitted it WITH NUCLEAR ORDINANCE! *Evil Laugh*

[gaw5024 112]

The "Katie" nuclear shell did exist, but there is no evidence I'm aware of that the shells were ever stored aboard ship.

[Viktor_E 2,121]

A modern day battleship ? Even with all the new technology I cannot see how it would be anygood against any other modern ship, and what advantages it would have in the modern battlefield. As a mobile sea artillery ? Aircraft carriers with jets can do the job just fine with even greater range and efficiency, the Iowa would have to get so close to land it would be within range of cruise missiles. As antiship ship ? Every single modern frigate, cruiser and destroyer is outfitted with anti ship missiles, with greater range, speed and firepower than what the Iowa cannons can deliver, sure the Iowa has missles of its own.  But what is the point of having the cannons then (extra cost for maintence I suppose)? And missiles have much greater accuracy compared to cannons.

As a anti aircraft system ? With all the radar guided guns/missiles, maybe. But then again, other ships can mount the same defences at a lower cost. And battlefield experiances shows that in all cases, the best air defence is your own figher jets. Again supplied by the aircraft carriers.

Add the fact that the battleship is bigger (a more juicy target), much slower than a contemporary naval ship and has no advantages in a modern navy battle. I think the best that can be said for the Iowa is that at least it can function as a overly large destroyer/frigate.

EDIT : Since the topic concerns itself with WW2, then remove the computer part from the title. It is very misleading. In those scenarios, I think that whosover fires the fist salvo and hit will be the winner. Yamato can fire faster with better search rader. But the Iowa has better fire control I think. So the situation is 50-50

Edited September 11, 2014 by Viktor_E

[Silavite 1,218]

I REALLY hate to drag this up, but Sultan may be right about the FCS after all.

http://www.fischer-tropsch.org/primary_documents/gvt_reports/USNAVY/USNTMJ%20Reports/USNTMJ_toc.htm

Specifically,

http://www.fischer-tropsch.org/primary_documents/gvt_reports/USNAVY/USNTMJ%20Reports/USNTMJ-200F-0023-0085%20Report%20O-31.pdf

Look at the bottom of page 39 of that PDF.

 

His statements about the E-27 also seem to be accurate, although they could only find bearing indeed.

http://www.fischer-tropsch.org/primary_documents/gvt_reports/USNAVY/USNTMJ%20Reports/USNTMJ-200B-0291-0310%20Report%20E-07.pdf

Edited October 30, 2014 by Silavite

[Madwolf 10,218]

Not really seeing what you're talking about. Can you quote it?

[Gahlok12 457]

It will be cool to see a Yamato vs Iowa duel, no doubt the Iowa will land the first hits, the challenge is if the Yamato can survive enough salvos to get close for an effective salvo of her own with those huge 18 inch guns against a faster and more accurate enemy.

Yes

 

The thing was in RL the Americans would have had a numerical advantage too - they could pool multiple Iowas as well as the very good North Carolina and South Dakota class fast BB's into a fast BB task force.  In addition, this force would have been under Adm Willis "Ching" Lee, who was not only a talented and aggressive admiral, but an expert on gunnery and especially radar as well. 

Really that good with radar as well

 

Where did they say they were against radar with their fire control. That makes about the top half of most of the trees without the radar they had IRL...

Yep

 

the Iowa has inferior surface search radars. the japanese type 98 series rangefinder fitted in the 33m long tower can track 40 knots-fast targets at a whooping 50km away and 35 knot evasive targets and took into account the earth values such as curvature,temp and such. 

 

 

as for landing the first hits. Yamato's maximum firing range was 26 miles and its FC radars were resilient. FC type 98's were fitted in the tower and main turrets. since the Iowa only has tower FC radars even one of her own salvos will kill her radars. meaning that after her first salvo her fighting capabilities would drop to extremely inferior while yamato would maintain its full combat capabilitiy even after taking up to 7 main calibre hits. the USS south dakota's FCs were entirely crippld and disabled after she took only two hits from the much older IJN Kirisihma. one hit did'n even penetrate, the other was an HE charge. so I question the statement "Iowa will land the first hits"

 

 

back to combat range, Iowa's max. fire range was 24 miles, yamato's was 26 miles. and supplementing this is the fact that Iowa's radars and FCs are again - Sensitive. if she takes a hit her combat abilities would be crippled. even her own salvos will do that.

 

 

 

its the opposite. Yamato has a 2-mile Immunity zone. Iowa has to survive that. and furthermore as demonstrated Bismarck test Iowa's only decent gunnary skills begin at 15 miles. while the Yamato was able to hit an enemy vessel with her first salvo ever fired at an enemy ship, this hit was the longest range hit against an enemy vessel in history, she hit the USS white plains bay at samar, within the first 4mins of the battle she lands a deadly straddle which temporarily knocks out the equipment and crippled the keels on the White plains 31.5km away or 19.6miles.

 

 

and since I brought up samar, its worth mentioning that in the battle, admiral kurita noted in a post war interview that at 30-35km he saw the puny starboard island of the USN carriers and even saw aircraft taking off the flight deck at poor weather (rain squalls and clouds) and yet the optics managed to achieve this at 30-35KM.

 

 

its stupid how people think battleships are some sort of mortal kombat floral where the 120Ibs bruce lee must take on the 500ibs King kong and must use agility to bring him down.

Um please provide the sources because it sounds like a fish tail to me

 

Sorry to say, but can you provide a source on that?

 

Because the Sharnhourst holds the record at 26,450 yards, followed by HMS Warspite on the Gulio Cesara at 26,000 yards. Nor can i find any info on the Yamato landing hits on anything but the USS Gambier bay, and at no where near the ranges you are talking about.

Yes I think he should provide the source as well

[Gahlok12 457]

Hey guys just be glad we aren't even getting the Gulf War 1990-1991 mod of the Iowa class Battle Ships because they have tomahawk missiles 

[Starsaint 19]

Haha yeahhh...  We should probably let the Iowa vs. Yamato thing die...  Although I love the story of Samar how the pilots were raking the decks with MGs and when out of ammo firing a .38 caliber hand gun out of the plane.

 

In a mostly objective observation, I must say; I'm not sure how fun it will be if the maps are so big we are firing outside of visual range, it would resemble Battleship the board game and fights could take an hour or more.  Maybe if there's a simulator mode, but honestly as an Arcade pilot, that'd be a bit too hardcore for me...  While I don't expect Bonhomme Richard style broadsides, I'm hoping it ends up being more ambush style game play where sights will come into play instead of legit radar controlled FCS.  Can not wait until ships come to alpha though, I want my Fletcher Class!

 

Also were there ship to ship missiles in the 1950s?  Can't find any sources of naval action in the Korean/early Cold War that didn't involve submarines, but I think that'd be fun for T5.

[General_Sultan 1,228]

Although I love the story of Samar how the pilots were raking the decks with MGs and when out of ammo firing a .38 caliber hand gun out of the plane

 

 

Maybe in some nice cartoon about samar that would happen.

[Fuyukaze 22]

So, given that the revised form of YAMATO's performance at Samar (touched upon by that massive argument which really could have been better phrased) is now published in Lundgren's book, The World Wonder'd: What Really Happened Off Samar, as well as what will most likely be the definitive account of the Surigao Strait action in The Battle of Surigao Strait by Tully, I'm just curious what Madwolf thinks about these arguments if he has read it

 

 

 

Not trying to reignite the 1 year + old debate since I have better things to do than spend pages arguing, but I would just like to see if your views have been influenced any by the arguments in that book.....If anything, it does show YAMATO to be much more combat effective than previously thought and of course would impact any future gameplay

 

What seems most impressive isn't really her range (which IMO, has been given far too much attention since the damage to WHITE PLAINS really wasn't done in optimal combat range....unlikely that a BB duel would begin at kind of range since ship COs would usually try to go for maximal damage)  but her accuracy during a melee where she was essentially quickly firing and reacquiring targets....if anything, it should settle that long range gunnery duels between YAMATO and IOWA wouldn't be as one sided in IOWA's favor as commonly assumed since her salvos can be taken with greater confidence then is commonly ascribed to straddle or hit IOWA at range (and generally depending on where you hit, radar destroyed, engines knocked out etc, it can go any way as fates of war would have it...Also note how even straddles can inflict critical damage on vital components of a ship)

Edited February 2, 2015 by Fuyukaze