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Use SL multipliers instead of repair-costs


10 hours ago, DRAGON_SK said:

I can see that this topic is pretty popular out here and I am surprised that people still have trouble earning SLs....
 


And the string of dumb arguments as we can see still continues.
Bro. You have invested 7 yrs of your life in the game. You have played 20 k matches. Do you think your experience has anything in common with an average WT player? When you stop spading and buying vehicles, of course you have no SL issues. 
Arium plays in squad of good players and has 90%+ of win rate. You two are like Marie Antoinette when she said if the angry hungry crowd has no bread to eat, "why wouldn't they just ate cakes instead?"
"Just enjoy the game, do not die" - what a brilliant plan, even the Baldrick from Blackadder would have been proud to think of it! You've heard him boys, all we must do is constantly win and not die and all of our problems will be solved! 

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1 hour ago, Thorien_Kell said:


And the string of dumb arguments as we can see still continues.
Bro. You have invested 7 yrs of your life in the game. You have played 20 k matches. Do you think your experience has anything in common with an average WT player? When you stop spading and buying vehicles, of course you have no SL issues. 
Arium plays in squad of good players and has 90%+ of win rate. You two are like Marie Antoinette when she said if the angry hungry crowd has no bread to eat, "why wouldn't they just ate cakes instead?"
"Just enjoy the game, do not die" - what a brilliant plan, even the Baldrick from Blackadder would have been proud to think of it! You've heard him boys, all we must do is constantly win and not die and all of our problems will be solved! 

We either win or we learn... hopefully.

Edited by Arium
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12 hours ago, Thorien_Kell said:

Arium plays in squad of good players and has 90%+ of win rate. You two are like Marie Antoinette when she said if the angry hungry crowd has no bread to eat, "why wouldn't they just ate cakes instead?"

Perhaps they should add a huge SL nerf to squads with high win rates and boost the income of players who join random games. From their posts it sounds like there's no reason to buy premium time or premium vehicles and you're better off just stomping people with squads to get SL.

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13 hours ago, Thorien_Kell said:


And the string of dumb arguments as we can see still continues.
Bro. You have invested 7 yrs of your life in the game. You have played 20 k matches. Do you think your experience has anything in common with an average WT player? When you stop spading and buying vehicles, of course you have no SL issues. 
Arium plays in squad of good players and has 90%+ of win rate. You two are like Marie Antoinette when she said if the angry hungry crowd has no bread to eat, "why wouldn't they just ate cakes instead?"
"Just enjoy the game, do not die" - what a brilliant plan, even the Baldrick from Blackadder would have been proud to think of it! You've heard him boys, all we must do is constantly win and not die and all of our problems will be solved! 



I mean I have never had troubles with SL what so ever, i had 30mills in reserve at lever 27 on my account some years ago... :)
True I am playing this game for a while - it sounds scary - 7 years - I had like 4-5 K battles just for past quarantine months :D

But really I am not a top tier player, I play mostly ww2 tanks and early cold war tanks/ planes and i enjoy them - that way you do not worry about income or losing SL - british 7.7 lineup when you die 5 times can cost you up to 60K for rep a match...
I do not mind, you can fight Gaijin for lowering the rep cots but after that some millionares will become billionares :crazy:
Have a nice day ! See you on the battlefield.

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52 minutes ago, lizardmech said:

Perhaps they should add a huge SL nerf to squads with high win rates and boost the income of players who join random games. From their posts it sounds like there's no reason to buy premium time or premium vehicles and you're better off just stomping people with squads to get SL.

Why would you suggest such nonsense? I don't understand the idea of rewarding those putting less effort in and cutting off those actually trying. You understand a squad is also players that join random battles, right? So is the idea to just cut rewards for those that actually team up with each other? It's a team vs team game, we're supposed to play with each other. This is not a singleplayer game, it's a multiplayer game. Of course squads is the way to go. Plus, it's more fun playing with friends than alone. Everything is more fun with a friend. So more players should really interact more and group up. It'll benefit everyone since there are also multiple awards that can be achieved by playing with each other, and people can also help by repairing, covering, flanking, etc.

 

I'd recommend buying premium, as it speed up your progress. Premium alone pretty much double your RP and raise up the SL. It'll be increased further with a Premium Vehicle which together with a Booster amplify SL rewards much more. If you want to make the most out of it, play in a squad with 3 other good people that also want to win, since winning also increase your rewards. Thing is, they can't be too good or they'll get a bigger share of the potential awards and leave you with less kills, assists, caps, etc. Good players understand this, so don't be sour because of it.

 

If we go a bit deeper into it, to increase the potential rewards you want to be playing solo, in a team that is really bad and passive, against an enemy team that is about as bad and passive but attacking 1 by 1 so it's easier to deal with them. If you're the only one actually doing things, you'll get loads of kills and loads of rewards, but it actually require some effort and luck to get 2 teams full of these kinds of players. 

Edited by Arium
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45 minutes ago, Arium said:

Why would you suggest such nonsense? I don't understand the idea of rewarding those putting less effort in and cutting off those actually trying. You understand a squad is also players that join random battles, right? So is the idea to just cut rewards for those that actually team up with each other? It's a team vs team game, we're supposed to play with each other. This is not a singleplayer game, it's a multiplayer game. Of course squads is the way to go.

Why should players be punished if they don't have any friends that play WT? If you have players in squads getting 90% win rates and hoarding 50m+ SL it means matchmaker is unable to find suitable opponents and they are stomping unbalanced teams. In games with larger populations players would be matched against players with a similar skill level and win rate will not deviate much beyond 50% win rate regardless of skill. You have the situation where players that have spent hundreds on premium vehicles and premium time but struggle to even afford repair costs, while someone who has never contributed a cent towards the game but  has reliable squadmates gets practically unlimited SL.

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4 hours ago, lizardmech said:

Why should players be punished if they don't have any friends that play WT? If you have players in squads getting 90% win rates and hoarding 50m+ SL it means matchmaker is unable to find suitable opponents and they are stomping unbalanced teams. In games with larger populations players would be matched against players with a similar skill level and win rate will not deviate much beyond 50% win rate regardless of skill. You have the situation where players that have spent hundreds on premium vehicles and premium time but struggle to even afford repair costs, while someone who has never contributed a cent towards the game but  has reliable squadmates gets practically unlimited SL.

I don't consider it being punishing to not have friends that play, but I consider it benefitial to have them. If you dont have friends, then you can get friends ingame. If you run across someone that does something you like or have an interesting playstyle, let them know. Send a friend request. Suggest to play together with anyone on your team or enemy team. Keep it up over time and you'll always have someone to play with. At this point I need to remove someone to accept new friend requests as the limit is set to 100. It'll make War Thunder much more enjoyable.

That said, I can also let you know that playing in squads is not a series of "auto-wins", as you're also matched against other squads. This is a reason why it can be hard to find matches at times because there are lack of squads in the queue. It can be faster to queue solo, but more fun and efficient in a squad.

 

50m+ a solo player can achieve as well. I know many that also tend to play solo that have gone past 200m+ mark as well. It comes down to choices. They often play something they like, get comfortable and good with, also use boosters and wagers alongside with premium account and premium vehicles.

 

50% winrate sounds a bit boring, and in a way there's little point to bother then if you'd end up with 50% regardless skill. Maybe that's why so many are so keen on giving up nowadays, as they sometimes win or lose anyway. With such an attitude I see little room for complaints if the degree of effort put in is to a minimum.

 

Of course it doens't matter if you pay or not. The fact is that good players will have an easier time to brake even at higher tiers due to their skill level. We can't all be winners all the time. If a player choose to pay for things or not, doesn't control the repair cost. We all have to face those when we lose our vehicles. Paying doesn't remove those, nor can you buy knowledge, skill, awareness, etc. Reliable squad mates can also play the game for free or choose to pay for increased rewards. It depends on what we're after and if there's a need for those extra rewards or not.

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  • 7 months later...
On 11/06/2020 at 19:56, Stuhlfleisch said:

I really think the entire repair-cost system should be removed, it's hard enough to make SL and a much better way of balancing individual vehicle's SL earning, is through the SL %-based multiplier.

 

If a vehicle is too profitable, simply crank down the percentage-multiplier and you make less SL, however, you can still play your favourite vehicle as often as you like, at least you won't be forced to not use it at some point, because you are starting to run out of SL.

 

Furthermore, so many things already cost SL (ammunition, crew-training, researched modules, vehicles), that removing the repair-cost would barely change the economy. It would allow people to play what they like, which should be the standard in a game about so many different vehicles.

 

This is my thought on the matter. Something has to be done about the entire repair-cost system and in my mind, removing it completely and replacing it with a multiplier-based balance is the best choice.

 

What do you guys think?

every vehicle should have 1000-2000 sl repair cost, to encourage players to save vehicles instead of constant suicide attacks

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5 minutes ago, jandaro said:

every vehicle should have 1000-2000 sl repair cost, to encourage players to save vehicles instead of constant suicide attacks

 

Your suggestion does the opposite from your stated intentions. Most vehicles get very cheap that way. Lost a zero?

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2 hours ago, jandaro said:

if you lose one vehicle, of course, it doesnt impact much, but about frequently doing it, it could stack up

 

Most higher vehicles already cost more. So by changing to these prices, you make them cheaper.

Edited by Dodo_Dud
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2 hours ago, jandaro said:

yeah, but they dont earn more

 

What? :dntknw:

 

27 minutes ago, Unnamed_MUTED_ said:

Okay, I think Arium is just trolling with his posts.

I don't think he is.

 

Quote

If not, well... it's a sad story..

True, someone not even able to quote a reference as a base. Sad story indeed.

Edited by Dodo_Dud
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10 hours ago, Unnamed_MUTED_ said:

Okay, I think Arium is just trolling with his posts. If not, well... it's a sad story..

I'm certainly not trolling. I don't do that on the forum. What's the issue you're having with my posts?

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it's funny that Good player still suggest average player to git gud so they will stop losing SL every time they play.

A friend of mine who stop playing WT at BR 8.0 where he playing Centauro having a good match with 3 kills but still losing SL anyway. (he gain around 5000-6000SL from 3kills and lose 8000 from repaircost+ammo cost)

 

without Premium account you did need 4-5 kills in Centauro alone to just cover its repair cost ( in case that you losing a battle and did not get winning bonus)

and 8.0 Italy average line up Centauro+OF-40+Sidam 8007+7484+13100 that's 28591 SL to repair which is around 13-16 kills to cover up a repair cost of just 3 tanks.

even extremely skilled player rarely achieve 10+kills per match (average highest kills I see is around 5-7 kills in random match, sometime there are player with 10kills+ but its rarely) 

but yet they still did say average player to gitgud enough to cover the insane repair cost.

 

 

 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Watakaze said:

it's funny that Good player still suggest average player to git gud so they will stop losing SL every time they play.

Why is that funny? Much of these issues for many people revolve around making poor choices. Getting a better understanding of the game help making better choices. 

 

It's fully possible for more people to get around making millions of SL, which does not translate as breaking even while playing expensive lineups. Understanding that there will be a loss of profits in some areas, there will be a more reasonable area elsewhere to break even, then a more comfortable area to make profits. Depending on skill level, these areas will increase or decrese in numbers. Low and mid tier is much more forgiving, which is why it is recommended to play these for time to time to build up a SL buffer.

 

I suppose one difference between good and average players is also the understanding and putting it in practice, how to maintain a decent SL buffer. This is essentially a "git gud" problem, which we can word however we want to make it sound more pleasing. I don't mean any harm with saying that something is a "learn to play issue", or "git gud", because the main thing is we're talking about the same thing and the point come through.

Edited by Arium
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If Gaijin use repair cost to limit earning and like this people don't get rich by farming the same stuff, why not put a max limit per vehicle OR per Tier/BR of available max earning?

 

It would no longer be possible to have negative games (wich totally disgusts me for all the game, personnally), but the max limit of winning money (and/or xp) would be limited.

 

This reduce the easy farm, and even if you have a bad game, whatever, you don't loose money.

 

 

Edited by Hyrikul
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27 minutes ago, Hyrikul said:

If Gaijin use repair cost to limit earning and like this people don't get rich by farming the same stuff, why not put a max limit per vehicle OR per Tier/BR of available max earning?

 

It would no longer be possible to have negative games (wich totally disgusts me for all the game, personnally), but the max limit of winning money (and/or xp) would be limited.

 

This reduce the easy farm, and even if you have a bad game, whatever, you don't loose money.

 

 

 

Repair costs do not only balance SL-reward, they also intend to limit play options, limit the vehicles use and enforce a more conservative play. This function works quite well imho.

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Anyone paying for premium time shouldn't be forced out of playing a particular line-up to "save up" silver lions period.

 

Even then, some of the stupidly high repair costs wouldn't be so bad if free repair time wasn't even more absurd.

 

Days to free repair?  That's ludicrous.  Should be an hour tops on all vehicles across the board...or even better, a set amount of games...say 3 - 5 you cant use it again unless you pay to fix it.

Stupidly high free repair times does nothing to prevent OP vehicle spam by lifers drowning in silver.  Lowering the free repair time might go some way to prevent vehicle spam if a player only had to wait a couple of games to play it again for free.

 

Why not some kind of currency threshold?  Say if you have less than a certain amount of lions in the bank your free repair time is drastically lowered to a set amount of games, then when you pass it you move back to the sledgehammer for a nail system they have now.

 

Current system royally sucks unless you're like old mate above who "knows how to make lions git gud".

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10 minutes ago, Fulth said:

Anyone paying for premium time shouldn't be forced out of playing a particular line-up to "save up" silver lions period.

 

I don't agree with you here period.

 

10 minutes ago, Fulth said:

Lowering the free repair time might go some way to prevent vehicle spam if a player only had to wait a couple of games to play it again for free.

Might work. Put up a suggestion.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Hyrikul said:

If Gaijin use repair cost to limit earning and like this people don't get rich by farming the same stuff, why not put a max limit per vehicle OR per Tier/BR of available max earning?

It would no longer be possible to have negative games (wich totally disgusts me for all the game, personnally), but the max limit of winning money (and/or xp) would be limited.

This reduce the easy farm, and even if you have a bad game, whatever, you don't loose money.

A max limit also cut of the potential, which is part of the "risk vs reward". As it is now, a player can gain more from a good match, with the risk of losing from a bad match. This encourage players to play better. This is a good system.

A max limit was also something that people complained a lot about regarding the "RP cap", that was removed a good while ago now. I highly doubt most would want that or something similar back. That was slowing down personal progress.

 

There are issues with no longer having negative games. Match quality can go down severely if everyone no longer will lose any SL. We could see more quitters, more reckless players, since they really do not need to care what happens. There's nothing to lose.
We would also likely see higher cost for things over time, if everyone would gain billions or billions of SL.

 

14 minutes ago, Fulth said:

Anyone paying for premium time shouldn't be forced out of playing a particular line-up to "save up" silver lions period.

 

Even then, some of the stupidly high repair costs wouldn't be so bad if free repair time wasn't even more absurd.

 

Days to free repair?  That's ludicrous.  Should be an hour tops on all vehicles across the board...or even better, a set amount of games...say 3 - 5 you cant use it again unless you pay to fix it.

Stupidly high free repair times does nothing to prevent OP vehicle spam by lifers drowning in silver.  Lowering the free repair time might go some way to prevent vehicle spam if a player only had to wait a couple of games to play it again for free.

 

Why not some kind of currency threshold?  Say if you have less than a certain amount of lions in the bank your free repair time is drastically lowered to a set amount of games, then when you pass it you move back to the sledgehammer for a nail system they have now.

 

Current system royally sucks unless you're like old mate above who "knows how to make lions git gud".

Premium just increase your income, doesn't remove your expenses. I think that is fine.

 

Costs are a way to slow down player progress, which has to exist in these types of long-term games. Otherwise there would be severe issues with player retention. I don't think the game would've lasted as long as it has now if everything was easily given or accessable with no cost.

 

I don't mind reducing the free repair system a little bit, but reducing it too much cut into the SL reduction system, making it much easier to save and gain SL. So if a much more user friendly Free Repair system would be implemented I wouldn't be surprised if vehicle SL multipliers would drop noticably to counter hoarding SL.

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1 hour ago, Arium said:

It's fully possible for more people to get around making millions of SL, which does not translate as breaking even while playing expensive lineups. Understanding that there will be a loss of profits in some areas, there will be a more reasonable area elsewhere to break even, then a more comfortable area to make profits. Depending on skill level, these areas will increase or decrese in numbers. Low and mid tier is much more forgiving, which is why it is recommended to play these for time to time to build up a SL buffer.

 

How can you making million SL at weekend without premium account with that Italy line up I suggest? (OF-40, Centauro , SIDAM , 28591 SL) 

when we hop into game we expect to play what we like to play or something that we can have fun with.

in my friend case he like Centauro, OF-40 and Sidam so he want to play those tank but he can't play because repair cost destroying his SL balance.

he may be not a great skilled player but he is above average for sure, if he spawn both Centauro and OF-40 he can get up to 6kills easily.

but that 6 kills is just barely enough to cover Centauro repair cost.

 

Every match is just barely gain profit and if you get bad luck like CAS right at spawn , spawn camp or whatever that kill you right before you can do anything Boom your SL minus 8000++

people may suggest to play at low-mid BR so you can sum up enough SL to burn at 8.0 italy but my friend don't like low BR he think its boring and not really fun for him.

 

Repair cost should be change. it's understandable if they want people to grind SL for new vehicle but It shouldn't make people can't play what they like to play.

 

my best suggest change for tank repair cost is, Make repair cost a percent of your total income (not included ammo cost),

and each tank have difference percentage but it's should not be higher than 30% so we can feel free to spawn at least 3 tanks and still gain around 10% SL like if you can make 10,000 SL this match , you die in Centauro it will cost you 30% you die in OF-40 too? that another 25% then you gotta get 4500SL  after ammo cost you might still get some profit each match, if you are playing really bad by wasting too much ammo without getting a kill you might getting minus SL.

this percentage repair system should also fix one death leaver problem( which is mainly cause by die in first tank without doing anything and don't wanna spawn second tank for even more repair cost) and can make you play that you really like to play without worry about SL too much

 

but plane repair cost should not be change to percentage system. this will make player value more about their plane when they spawn a plane in ground RB

imagine about playing 3 tanks 30%+30%+30%+ammo cost then + 12000SL for plane repair. but well if you have about 75million SL and don't have anymore vehicle to purchase you might don't care that little cost

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4 hours ago, Watakaze said:

 

How can you making million SL at weekend without premium account with that Italy line up I suggest? (OF-40, Centauro , SIDAM , 28591 SL) 

when we hop into game we expect to play what we like to play or something that we can have fun with.

in my friend case he like Centauro, OF-40 and Sidam so he want to play those tank but he can't play because repair cost destroying his SL balance.

he may be not a great skilled player but he is above average for sure, if he spawn both Centauro and OF-40 he can get up to 6kills easily.

but that 6 kills is just barely enough to cover Centauro repair cost.

 

Every match is just barely gain profit and if you get bad luck like CAS right at spawn , spawn camp or whatever that kill you right before you can do anything Boom your SL minus 8000++

people may suggest to play at low-mid BR so you can sum up enough SL to burn at 8.0 italy but my friend don't like low BR he think its boring and not really fun for him.

 

Repair cost should be change. it's understandable if they want people to grind SL for new vehicle but It shouldn't make people can't play what they like to play.

 

my best suggest change for tank repair cost is, Make repair cost a percent of your total income (not included ammo cost),

and each tank have difference percentage but it's should not be higher than 30% so we can feel free to spawn at least 3 tanks and still gain around 10% SL like if you can make 10,000 SL this match , you die in Centauro it will cost you 30% you die in OF-40 too? that another 25% then you gotta get 4500SL  after ammo cost you might still get some profit each match, if you are playing really bad by wasting too much ammo without getting a kill you might getting minus SL.

this percentage repair system should also fix one death leaver problem( which is mainly cause by die in first tank without doing anything and don't wanna spawn second tank for even more repair cost) and can make you play that you really like to play without worry about SL too much

 

but plane repair cost should not be change to percentage system. this will make player value more about their plane when they spawn a plane in ground RB

imagine about playing 3 tanks 30%+30%+30%+ammo cost then + 12000SL for plane repair. but well if you have about 75million SL and don't have anymore vehicle to purchase you might don't care that little cost

Expectation can be a bit of a problem. You can't play whatever you want for several reasons. It might be because you have not researched the vehicle, or not bought it, or can't afford repairing it, or there might not be enough players on to form a match, depending on game mode, nation and if in a squad.

 

We all know that the expenses go up as we get up the tiers. This is normal. If player performance doesn't allow it, expecting to make a profit with high tier vehicles will be a problem. Not saying the person is bad, but what I'm saying is that costs stack up higher up. Losing multiple vehicles will be costly.

This is why it's highly suggested to play something more optimal for the sake of SL profit, and play anything else for the sake of just fun. This is fine.

 

There are reasons why there are SL costs. I've mentioned this a lot of times in the past. Without costs, there would not be much need to gain SL, no incentive to buy premium vehicles, especially low/mid tier premiums. That's the main selling point, asking me, apart from fun and interesting. Check out this example below:

 

Premium account, premium vehicle, 500% booster and a win. 512k SL.

500k_premium_500booster_CobraKing_AB.thu

Would you not play a few matches with a mid tier vehicle if such a sum is within reach, or any sum even half of it? Thing is, many refuse to pay for premium account, or get a decent premium vehicle, or use boosters, or put in effort enough build a SL buffer doing all of it. That mean that they are choosing to put potential high gain out of reach. Some investment can generate a lot of return. 

 

Many do not want to be uptiered, or just want to play top tier. If too many players focus too much on top tier there will be issues further down with low population. Having higher costs up there make matches to gain SL around mid tier more lucrative, which repopulate these ares. It's vital to have these areas more populated for new people progressing.

 

I'm not convinced about repairs being income dependant up to 30% or something. It will reduce the effect it has regarding quantity, which has been stated is a reason certain vehicles get higher costs. They want to see less of those vehicles, so a higher cost is applied, a higher risk vs reward. You can still play them, but with a bigger bill if losing it. As mentioned previously, these vehicles tend to be highly efficient vehicles with high gain potential.

1-death quitters is not going to be fixed even with free repairs. There are so many other factors in play regarding that issue, due to all the reasons people use to give up. What they do have in common is player attitude. A quitter will leave regardless, others do not.

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