Jump to content

Use SL multipliers instead of repair-costs


I really think the entire repair-cost system should be removed, it's hard enough to make SL and a much better way of balancing individual vehicle's SL earning, is through the SL %-based multiplier.

 

If a vehicle is too profitable, simply crank down the percentage-multiplier and you make less SL, however, you can still play your favourite vehicle as often as you like, at least you won't be forced to not use it at some point, because you are starting to run out of SL.

 

Furthermore, so many things already cost SL (ammunition, crew-training, researched modules, vehicles), that removing the repair-cost would barely change the economy. It would allow people to play what they like, which should be the standard in a game about so many different vehicles.

 

This is my thought on the matter. Something has to be done about the entire repair-cost system and in my mind, removing it completely and replacing it with a multiplier-based balance is the best choice.

 

What do you guys think?

  • Upvote 16
medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not that hard to make SL as there are many options to increase it. The main problem here is that people either do not know about the options or simple refuse to use them. The latter is a user issue for sure.

 

The current theory is a self-regulating system increasing the repair of high-performing vehicles, based on player performance. So with a lot of players earning a lot on certain vehicles, these will go up in repairs. Inspecting these vehicles it's also shown that they are performing very well, it's good vehicles with high potential.

If changing the repair costs the way you describe by lowering the multipler, you'd likely end up with earning barely anything, so unlocking everything else would still require a lot grinding. Gaijin would likely not just give everything away for free just because repairs would be gone.

 

There are 2 different costs we're talking about. One time costs and recurring costs. Ammunition and repairs are the only 2 recurring costs while crew training, unlocking modules, vehicle etc are all one time use only. If we would remove the biggest recurring cost we'd end up with everyone being millionares, so of course the economy would change. So SL would lose it's purpose.

 

So what is the purpose of SL? It function as another step similar to RP, being a currency needed to progres, prolonging the stay of players wanting to progress further. RP you never can go negative with, but you can with SL due to the repair costs, so balancing these for optimal progress is needed.

 

Lowering some of the high priced vehicles is what I would prefer, but removing repairs I do not see as a realistic option. SL has a purpose, regardless if you understand it, want it or not.

  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 1
  • Confused 12
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Arium said:

Lowering some of the high priced vehicles is what I would prefer, but removing repairs I do not see as a realistic option. SL has a purpose, regardless if you understand it, want it or not.


Only purpose SL economy has for gaijin is providing a paywall to lock most of the game from non premium users, which could be achieved in other more reasonable ways,
and increasing their sale revenue from people that are actually forced to buy SL thru GE, which is insane. Do you want to bet that ...let's say 3-7% of their monthly income or more comes through this incredibly greedy, short sighted mechanics?

One thing that it does not achieve is in balancing the game. Insane cost are just proof of that by themselves. Small portion of players is still earning money, even with expenses are crazily high. Problem is that for the majority of the player base significant part of content stays forever locked behind the SL grindwall. It's not just that we "refuse to earn SL in other ways" - it's that we find whole the arrangement unacceptable. Even people that have enough SL often refuse to touch those vehicles because it simple doesn't feel right or fun. 

Punishing SL mechanics really hurts this game in the long run, regardless if you understand it or not.
 

Edited by Thorien_Kell
  • Upvote 5
medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not supposed to balance the game as many believe, it's supposed to cut off the SL income so people do not speed through content too fast. Just look at any other game having any kind of similar economy. Many MMORPG's even have weekly or daily caps, forcing the player to spend a minimum amount of time before reaching the target of interest.

 

Why do you think players have to spend time to aquire certain things? Because spending time means more matches, and more matches mean a more populated game, more people around trying to reach certain stages mean higher chance for people to invest money. This is not rocket science.

 

The SL mechanics is only punishing if you refuse to take advantage of the options availble. That's a user issue. A "learn to play" problem.

  • Confused 4
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Arium said:

The SL mechanics is only punishing if you refuse to take advantage of the options availble. That's a user issue. A "learn to play" problem.

 

That's utter BS. xxxx ridiculous statement but whatever. You have proven many times that any debate or reason on you is wasted. If you were able to comprehend how wrong you are, you would get it 20 pages ago. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Because I don't jump on the "hate Gaijin"-train? Or because I'm actually trying to understand things, using logic? Math?

Many problems people complain about are things we can do something about ourselves, but many choose not to, which make it into problems. SL is one of them. Top tier is generally more expensive, good vehicles are generally more expensive. With that knowledge we can also understand that we can make much more SL elsewhere, which is acceptable.

Edited by Arium
  • Haha 1
  • Confused 6
  • Upvote 4
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Arium said:

It's not that hard to make SL as there are many options to increase it. The main problem here is that people either do not know about the options or simple refuse to use them. The latter is a user issue for sure.

Here is a recent match where I come 1st place using premium time with a $59 premium vehicle, and lose over 40,000 SL for the match. 

20200609050328_1.jpg

20200609050341_1.jpg

  • Sad 1
  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, lizardmech said:

Here is a recent match where I come 1st place using premium time with a $59 premium vehicle, and lose over 40,000 SL for the match.

We can also see that it was a loss, which also mean you missed out on the win bonuses. So at this point it doesn't matter a lot which position you were in, first place in the losing team can be easy to reach by just trying a bit more than the rest of the team.

Since it was a loss it also mean it likely was more of a struggle and losing the vehicles or having them damaged is what is costing you 56,576 SL, just using them cost you 4,460 in ammo refills. You didn't gain much by your actions, but someone else have to judge if it actually was a passive loss or action packed game. From what I recall it tend to be more than 3 kills and 3 assists going on in these games so I would expect more than 18k

  • Haha 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Arium said:

We can also see that it was a loss, which also mean you missed out on the win bonuses.

And with a win I would still be down 30k and would require perhaps an addition 10 kills to just break even. That's 13 kills, a win, premium time and a premium vehicle, to just break even.

medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, lizardmech said:

And with a win I would still be down 30k and would require perhaps an addition 10 kills to just break even. That's 13 kills, a win, premium time and a premium vehicle, to just break even.

Don't bother trying to make him understand. I'm even surprised he hasn't sent you to play tanks 4.3 to make some SL because, you know, high tier isn't supposed to be profitable. :016:

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 4
  • Upvote 4
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, _retro__gamer_ said:

Don't bother trying to make him understand. I'm even surprised he hasn't sent you to play tanks 4.3 to make some SL because, you know, high tier isn't supposed to be profitable. :016:

Understand what? That average players will have a harder time to break even? Can clearly tell it's not really intentional to be easy to break even at top tier. It's not my opinion, it just is. I didn't make the rules around here.

  • Confused 2
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your argument is fundamentally flawed. If top tier were supposed to be hard to make a living, why do most MBT's not even cost 10k to repair? Why is the Ferdinand the most expensive tech tree vehicle to repair STOCK in the entire game? What of the Lorr 40t being absurdly expensive? Gaijin use SL repair costs as a "balancing" factor, because they have no idea how to manage the BR system effectively. This is evident by the insane compression we see at 8.7-9.7 and 10.0 to 10.3. My F-4EJ Phantom costs less than a Spitfire LF Mk.IX to repair.

  • Upvote 3
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My argument is not fundamentally flawed because you misunderstand it.

The Ferdinand is expensive because it is a really good vehicle. I used to rush in and hunt IS-6's when they were considered OP. Really good vehicles have had better player performance statistics, hence higher repair cost. The Lorraine 40t is the best vehicle available within its BR range, can even be used higher up successfully.

You're mixing up the BR balancing with repair cost. Look at repairs as controlling the flow of SL, cutting off the high performance vehicles from earning too much. Since their potential is higher, so is also their repairs. Identical vehicles in different nations can be compared and you'll see that the more expensive version have better statistics by players using them.

  • Haha 1
  • Confused 2
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my favourite example, Armoured Warfare, they did remove repair-costs for all vehicles, simply because the community was sick of them and they realised it does no good for the game.

Did people start to rush through tech-trees? Of course not, because vehicles and modules still had to be researched and bought at increasing rates, the higher you got in the tech-tree.

It simply removed a frustration-factor from the game and I think gaijin should consider doing the same, since from what I heard and saw, from a lot of people that actively play War Thunder, removing the repair-cost would only be a huge positive.

 

The balance of a vehicle would also not be impaired, since first, the BR system is flawed anyway, with or without repair-costs, that's a topic for other threads, however secondly, by adjusting the SL modifier for individual vehicles, more effective ones would still be able to give you less profit, than a less effective vehicle with a higher modifier, if you earn next to nothing with a vehicle with low SL-modifier, this is in my opinion still superior to having an absurd repair-cost for certain vehicles.

Edited by Stuhlfleisch
  • Upvote 3
medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Arium said:

Understand what? That average players will have a harder time to break even? Can clearly tell it's not really intentional to be easy to break even at top tier. It's not my opinion, it just is. I didn't make the rules around here.

Mid tier 4.3 naval battle, I get uptiered an entire BR, I still manage 5 kills and come second and we win. -18000 SL

20200613051402_1.jpg

20200613051432_1.jpg

  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Stuhlfleisch said:

I don't think removing repair-costs would damage the game at all and by no means would people start to speed through content too fast. In my favourite example, Armoured Warfare, they did remove repair-costs for all vehicles, simply because the community was sick of them and they realised it does no good for the game.

Did people start to rush through tech-trees? Of course not, because vehicles and modules still had to be researched and bought at increasing rates, the higher you got in the tech-tree.

It simply removed a frustration-factor from the game and I think gaijin should consider doing the same, since from what I heard and saw, from a lot of people that actively play War Thunder, removing the repair-cost would only be a huge positive.

 

The balance of a vehicle would also not be impaired, since first, the BR system is flawed anyway, with or without repair-costs, that's a topic for other threads, however secondly, by adjusting the SL modifier for individual vehicles, more effective ones would still be able to give you less profit, than a less effective vehicle with a higher modifier.

The positive thing going for Armored Warfare was the PvE, at least back when I was playing it. I heard it turned out worse with developer changes. Being a World of Tanks clone it also brought much of the same issues that made the game clunky. It also suffer from a lower population so it's understandable that drastic changes to keep people could be on the table during dev meetings.

So by removing repair costs in that game but keeping other one time costs, eventually people would sit with so much useless currency.

 

The main thing for premium vehicles is the increased RP and SL. Using boosters together with a premium vehicle make it scale really well. Without costs the incentive to get these would be little to none, especially when a lot of things have been researched already or low/mid tier premiums. What is the reason to get and play these premium vehicle when all you need is to buy a cheaper talisman and put it on your favorite vehicle instead, getting pretty much the same effect since SL would be less of factor?

 

These things are rarely considered by players arguing against SL costs, since their biggest argument is emotional, mainly frustration. Which they could solve themselves by either appreciating more parts of the game and utilizing more options available.

 

The BR system work pretty well. Not sure if you know what would happen if it didnt' exist. If for example we'd have vehicles only by year instead which have been commonly suggested, we'd see more issues where some nations wouldn't stand a chance, and people complain already about uptiers.

But again, don't mix the BR system with repair costs, it's a common misconception. They do not balance the same things. The vehicle modifier are near or similar on similar vehicles so the initial potential is the same, like it should be. Repair cost is adjusted as an after-effect based on player performance, which BR is not unless the vehicle is either under- or overperforming. Repair cost touch the SL a player can generate with the vehicle, to reduce the higher numbers.

 

It is good for the game to have costs since people will stay for longer, having to play additional games to reach their goals. Having people playing the game do mean we have people to queue with, which is vital.

 

 

39 minutes ago, lizardmech said:

Mid tier 4.3 naval battle, I get uptiered an entire BR, I still manage 5 kills and come second and we win. -18000 SL

You still lost 2 vehicles, and that's why you pay the repairs. 4.3 Naval is basically high tier since it only goes to 5.7. If you go up an additional 0.3 you'd be uptiered to top tier naval. Top tier is more expensive than low tier still.

Naval alone also is considered to be the least rewarding game mode to play, so there are still much better options to generate SL.

  • Haha 1
  • Confused 2
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Arium said:

The current theory is a self-regulating system increasing the repair of high-performing vehicles, based on player performance. So with a lot of players earning a lot on certain vehicles, these will go up in repairs. Inspecting these vehicles it's also shown that they are performing very well, it's good vehicles with high potential.

Wuut...? 

Except the theory is so biased that it's a joke. Seriously, even GJ knows it...

And it has been discussed so many times on so many subforums... I don't know how some people can still throw such nonsense and think they are right... amazing. 

medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Arium said:

The positive thing going for Armored Warfare was the PvE, at least back when I was playing it. I heard it turned out worse with developer changes. Being a World of Tanks clone it also brought much of the same issues that made the game clunky. It also suffer from a lower population so it's understandable that drastic changes to keep people could be on the table during dev meetings.

So by removing repair costs in that game but keeping other one time costs, eventually people would sit with so much useless currency.

 

The PvE in AW has actually improved further, by adding infantry for IVF’s, but this is besides the point, fact is, that the removal of repair-costs was universally liked by the community, just because the game has less population than War Thunder, does not mean the developers’ actions are less valid, more people came back to the game after repair-costs were removed and I am fairly certain, that the same would happen to War Thunder and since you can’t have “too many” players playing your game, it would be a win-win situation.

 

About having too much currency, you can easily tone down the overall SL-gains by adjusting the percentage-modifiers, plus ammo-cost, plus the RP-gain is unaffected, which is another wall you have to grind through anyway.

 

48 minutes ago, Arium said:

The main thing for premium vehicles is the increased RP and SL. Using boosters together with a premium vehicle make it scale really well. Without costs the incentive to get these would be little to none, especially when a lot of things have been researched already or low/mid tier premiums. What is the reason to get and play these premium vehicle when all you need is to buy a cheaper talisman and put it on your favorite vehicle instead, getting pretty much the same effect since SL would be less of factor?

 

The main incentive for getting a premium vehicle is not the repair-price, it’s the high amount of RP and SL modifiers and the ability, to grind out any rank above it plus one below it, with a talisman you can’t suddenly research a vehicle from rank 3 with 100% efficiency by using a rank 5 vehicle, you only get doubled RP amounts. Many people buy a rank 5 or 6 premium, in order to grind the entire tree with it, from rank I to VI-VII.

 

49 minutes ago, Arium said:

These things are rarely considered by players arguing against SL costs, since their biggest argument is emotional, mainly frustration. Which they could solve themselves by either appreciating more parts of the game and utilizing more options available.

 

Exactly my point, repair-costs naturally cause frustration in the player, something that should not happen for the sake of the games’ lifetime. A lot of people are only interested in certain vehicles or aspects of the game, but repair-costs force them to play vehicles they do not enjoy, therefore making it more likely for them to leave the game.

 

50 minutes ago, Arium said:

The BR system work pretty well. Not sure if you know what would happen if it didnt' exist. If for example we'd have vehicles only by year instead which have been commonly suggested, we'd see more issues where some nations wouldn't stand a chance, and people complain already about uptiers.

But again, don't mix the BR system with repair costs, it's a common misconception. They do not balance the same things. The vehicle modifier are near or similar on similar vehicles so the initial potential is the same, like it should be. Repair cost is adjusted as an after-effect based on player performance, which BR is not unless the vehicle is either under- or overperforming. Repair cost touch the SL a player can generate with the vehicle, to reduce the higher numbers.

 

Yeah, the BR system works so well, that Gaijin had to remove a perfectly historical vehicle from the game, although I wasn’t even trying to talk about the BR system, since I specifically said “that's a topic for other threads”.

 

Repair-cost does not balance a more capable vehicle, since as we can see with the Lorraine 40t and E-100 as some of the most extreme cases, even if you play an amazing game, turning a profit if you died once is harder, than turning a profit in a vehicle of the same BR, but with a significantly lower repair-cost.

 

50 minutes ago, Arium said:

It is good for the game to have costs since people will stay for longer, having to play additional games to reach their goals. Having people playing the game do mean we have people to queue with, which is vital.

 

Removing repair-costs would have the same effect, while people would be happier. They would stick around longer, to play their favourite vehicles and old players would come back to the game aswell.

medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Thorien_Kell said:


Only purpose SL economy has for gaijin is providing a paywall to lock most of the game from non premium users, 

Little hint for you.

XP Bonus for prem account is 200%, SL boost is 150%.

Same way for most prem vehicles. The XP boost is much higher then the SL boost. Some even got the same SL bonus (or sometimes even worse) then compareable (or even the same) vehicles in the tree.

In fact with prem it is much easyer to run out of lions then without, because you will unlock and upgrades faster without being able to make the same amount of SL for each XP.

 

Repaircosts are just a part of the formula.

medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, sebsav said:

Wuut...? 

Except the theory is so biased that it's a joke. Seriously, even GJ knows it...

And it has been discussed so many times on so many subforums... I don't know how some people can still throw such nonsense and think they are right... amazing. 

It's the most stable theory we have. What's the alternative? Please, share..

 

15 minutes ago, Stuhlfleisch said:

The PvE in AW has actually improved further, by adding infantry for IVF’s, but this is besides the point, fact is, that the removal of repair-costs was universally liked by the community, just because the game has less population than War Thunder, does not mean the developers’ actions are less valid, more people came back to the game after repair-costs were removed and I am fairly certain, that the same would happen to War Thunder and since you can’t have “too many” players playing your game, it would be a win-win situation.

 

About having too much currency, you can easily tone down the overall SL-gains by adjusting the percentage-modifiers, plus ammo-cost, plus the RP-gain is unaffected, which is another wall you have to grind through anyway.

Of course they would like it. People like getting stuff for free. I'm certain the War Thunder community would love it as well, but it's logically not in the interest from a company perspective to remove a factor that keep people playing for various reason already mentioned and perhaps even more.

 

As far as I know it's been going downwards since Obsidian was dropped and My.com took over the development.

 

By toning down the overall SL gains you also increase the time it would take to get the amount to pay for everything else (vehicle cost, modification cost, crew costs, etc), unless those one time costs also change.

 

15 minutes ago, Stuhlfleisch said:

The main incentive for getting a premium vehicle is not the repair-price, it’s the high amount of RP and SL modifiers and the ability, to grind out any rank above it plus one below it, with a talisman you can’t suddenly research a vehicle from rank 3 with 100% efficiency by using a rank 5 vehicle, you only get doubled RP amounts. Many people buy a rank 5 or 6 premium, in order to grind the entire tree with it, from rank I to VI-VII.

The repair cost is a part of all the costs, but it's the main recurring cost that exist. It'll still be there even after you have bought every vehicle, every modification, etc. Ammo cost is a minor one in comparison. But regardless what reason a person use, if you're in need of SL, then a premium vehicle is a good idea. If you want to make more SL with less costs it's prefered to do it in the mid tier areas.

The rank 5 premiums are not the only premiums worth getting. With the increased RP there's still need of extra SL since research tend to go faster than you can earn SL, which again point to the fact that a player need to balance these, and keep playing to also afford all that has been researched.

 

15 minutes ago, Stuhlfleisch said:

Exactly my point, repair-costs naturally cause frustration in the player, something that should not happen for the sake of the games’ lifetime. A lot of people are only interested in certain vehicles or aspects of the game, but repair-costs force them to play vehicles they do not enjoy, therefore making it more likely for them to leave the game.

The whole free-to-play model is nudging players into spendign money, frustration is part of it. It's slow as a free-to-play player, which is kind of the idea. It's open to anyone to start playing, fast progress early on and then it slows down to get people into buying premium for increased progress again. It doesn't instantly unlock everything for players, and it's taking more and more time the higher we go. 

If top tier is the only thing that matter to people, then we can again talk about an increase of population at top tier, which leave other areas with less people. Since people are needed all over the ranks it's then for the good of the game and playerbase that people move around to keep all ranks populated. So having people go get down to low/mid/high tier to make more SL is logical and healthy for the game.

 

15 minutes ago, Stuhlfleisch said:

Yeah, the BR system works so well, that Gaijin had to remove a perfectly historical vehicle from the game, although I wasn’t even trying to talk about the BR system, since I specifically said “that's a topic for other threads”.

 

Repair-cost does not balance a more capable vehicle, since as we can see with the Lorraine 40t and E-100 as some of the most extreme cases, even if you play an amazing game, turning a profit if you died once is harder, than turning a profit in a vehicle of the same BR, but with a significantly lower repair-cost.

1 vehicle doens't break the whole BR system. Come on now, that's a bit childish.

 

It's not supposed to balance the vehicle, I've said that multiple times now. Try see it as reducing the number of meta-vehicles then. Since the costly vehicles are really good we don't want to see them all the time anyway, and again, it reduce the income for the player using them IF they lose it. This also allow for other vehicles to share the space, causing more variety. 

 

15 minutes ago, Stuhlfleisch said:

Removing repair-costs would have the same effect, while people would be happier. They would stick around longer, to play their favourite vehicles and old players would come back to the game aswell.

That's more of wishful thinking. Compared to a more "enforced" way which is applied today which keep players playing. Playing a certain vehicle today will take you X amount of matches with Y mount of average rewards and Z costs. Nothing is really stopping players from playing the vehicles they want, as long as they are unlocked. If they want to play the more expensive vehicles, go for it, but be prepared to pay the cost if the vehicle is lost. With any other expensive hobby, or luxury lifestyle, it'll cost. A bit similar with War Thunder and the higher tiers. If people expect things to be free because it's a free-to-play game and the market is flooded by them with generous options, then they'll likely be disappointed.

  • Confused 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, anyuser said:

Little hint for you.

XP Bonus for prem account is 200%, SL boost is 150%.

Same way for most prem vehicles. The XP boost is much higher then the SL boost. Some even got the same SL bonus (or sometimes even worse) then compareable (or even the same) vehicles in the tree.

In fact with prem it is much easyer to run out of lions then without, because you will unlock and upgrades faster without being able to make the same amount of SL for each XP.

 

Repaircosts are just a part of the formula.

This is true, yes. There is likely reasons behind this. I wouldn't be surprised if the first stage people take is premium account and due to that increased research the nudge toward premium vehcles to grind SL come as a second stage. I touched this a bit in a different post a while ago.

 

 

 

So for those curious

They are used differently in the vehicle modifier and that affect additional modifiers differently later on when scaled.

 

Vehicle RP formula:

1 * (100% +100% + 100% + 300)   

Base * (Base + Premium Account + Premium Vehicle + 300% Booster)

 

Vehicle SL formula:

1 * 2 *(100% + 50% + 300%)

Base * Premium Vehicle * (Base * Premium Account + 300% Booster)

 

 

Especially noticable when using Boosters. A similar sized booster is more effective for SL than for RP. So using a 300% as an example.

 

Let's say both SL and RP is 1, using Premium, Premium Vehicle.

Let's begin with RP.

Base formula: 1 * (1 + 1 + 1) = 3

300% booster: 1 * (1 + 1 + 1 + 3) = 6

6/3 = 2x

 

SL modifier is 

Base formula: 1 * 2 * (1 + 0.5) = 3

300% booster: 1 * 2 * (1 + 0.5 + 3) = 9

9/3 = 3x

 

You get a 2x increase to RP by using a 300% booster and a 3x increase to SL. It would be even higher with a bigger booster, let's try 500%.

 

1 * (1 + 1 + 1) = 3

500% booster: 1 * (1 + 1 + 1 + 5) = 8

8/3 = 2.66x

 

SL modifier is 

1 * 2 * (1 + 0.5) = 3

500% booster: 1 * 2 * (1 + 0.5 + 5) = 13

13/3 = 4.33x

 

Since we also always need SL due to the expenses, it makes sense to Gaijin to have it at a rate where we don't get too much of it to prolong the player stay. Sooner or later we have researched everything of interest, but we still have expenses for the prolonged stay.

 

 

  • Haha 1
  • Confused 2
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Arium said:

Since we also always need SL due to the expenses, it makes sense to Gaijin to have it at a rate where we don't get too much of it to prolong the player stay. Sooner or later we have researched everything of interest, but we still have expenses for the prolonged stay.


This is the dumbest theory I've ever heard. Gaijin already has dedicated progression control tool it's called RP. (duh!)
Other games have no "lock content behind grindwall /paywall" mechanics - and people still play them.

How about "prolonging the player stay" by making the good game and not annoy the crap out a people instead? 


Recently we had a high tier event where people played 10.3 gamed FOR FREE with no RP/SL modifiers attached - surely it must have been a massive failure, giving undeserving plebs all they want on silver platter right champ? But oh noooo! It was massive success with all people participating agreeing it was "refreshing" and far better then to have expenses sword constantly hang over your head.
Did you ever wander why low tiers are so much more fun then high tiers? Because people take risks, they don't cower behind wall and refusing to cap a point cause they will lose their precious expensive tank. 

 

If people are paying for your product - let them play it freely - else your'e failing as developer. Everybody understands this simple concept except few disconnected elitist spergs who play hard meta and cannot possibly comprehend how "casuals" with real life job family and obligations have problems at all. 

  • Thanks 2
  • Upvote 2
medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Repair costs and SL is a way for yourself to judge your effectivness too.

You have to be very good to stay on HT all the time. Thats the same for most F2Ps like WT. Else you have to earn money elsewhere.


You can call it a way to show your real place to you.

We already got many many players in this game who just rushed the trees and learned nothing on the way.

RP does not hold them back but SL does.

medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Thorien_Kell said:


This is the dumbest theory I've ever heard. Gaijin already has dedicated progression control tool it's called RP. (duh!)
Other games have no "lock content behind grindwall /paywall" mechanics - and people still play them.

How about "prolonging the player stay" by making the good game and not annoy the crap out a people instead? 


Recently we had a high tier event where people played 10.3 gamed FOR FREE with no RP/SL modifiers attached - surely it must have been a massive failure, giving undeserving plebs all they want on silver platter right champ? But oh noooo! It was massive success with all people participating agreeing it was "refreshing" and far better then to have expenses sword constantly hang over your head.
Did you ever wander why low tiers are so much more fun then high tiers? Because people take risks, they don't cower behind wall and refusing to cap a point cause they will lose their precious expensive tank. 

 

If people are paying for your product - let them play it freely - else your'e failing as developer. Everybody understands this simple concept except few disconnected elitist spergs who play hard meta and cannot possibly comprehend how "casuals" with real life job family and obligations have problems at all. 

You think RP is the only thing holding us back? Think again. I've mentioned balancing SL as well. As you can earn RP at a faster rate, depending on how and what you play, you fall behind with SL and therefore need to find a balance so you don't end up with stuff researched but not unlocked. Progression control is both RP and SL.

 

There are multiple games with grind-/paywall mechanics. Most free-to-play games offer easy access but payable options to speed up progression. It's part of the business model to offer these options. See "free-to-play" as advertisement instead of developers giving away a free game.

 

There are a lot of reasons I can see why people would enjoy low/mid tier more than high tier, and repair costs is not very high up on that list.

 

If the game would've had a fixed price and no subscription (premium), we'd likely see many more vehicle packs as buyable DLC's, nations and/or maps as expansions, because there has to be some income for the company. We can look at other games like Payday 2, Train Simulator, Rocksmith, etc, which all have disgustingly amounts of DLC's people can buy. There would likely still be a progression system which is common in many games, so people would still not get free access to everything and play it freely anyway. So I wonder if it's not the consumer who's failing to understand the product.

 

A difference I also want to point out is if we compare a more "seasonal" game like Call of Duty that comes out pretty much every year, there's just 1 game of War Thunder that keep running. It doesn't get replaced. We can buy a new CoD every year and get a somewhat new experience. With 1 game it's more investement, so over time all these additional content packs will add up and be a lot of money too. Similar games to that which the developer invest time and money in are commonly MMORPG's that have lived for years, with expansions and DLC's added through the year. Even subscription based games like World of Warcraft keep you grinding for weeks, months, years if you want to collect everything, which in War Thunder context would be to unlock all vehicles, spade them, for all nations, maybe even getting decals and whatever. 

Anyone aiming to get hold of everything can realistically not expect to do that within a year or two, unless a lot o time investment.

 

I can as a father of 2 small children of 4 and 1 with also other obligations say that you have to balance time, value your time and be efficient when playing. That mean actually get good at what you do if you want good rewards, good progression, within a realistic time frame. Whining on the forum and demanding things for free is not the way to go and is more considered a waste of time.

  • Confused 3
  • Sad 1
  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can see that this topic is pretty popular out here and I am surprised that people still have trouble earning SLs....
After 7 years of playing this game I have nowhere to spend my SLs...and still I am close to 70millions SL reserve and I have never spent real money on the game - everything is from F2P gameplay and thanks to warbond premium vehicles.
As mentioned by Arium it is about your efficiency - just play the vehicles you enjoy the most and do not care about some income - I can play my G55 or my 7.7 GF brit lineup and still be positive... why ? Just enjoy the game, do not die and you will be swimming in SLs.
If we would not have repair cost, fine it could help some people but I would be a billionaire in that case whilst not using premium account and playing just regular tree vehicles...
So just find your vehicles, that you enjoy and do great in, master them and be efficient with it... sadly I do not have a lot of time to play last months due to uni... but when I do play few matches during weekend I tend to gain 1-2 millions easily :)

I think that repair costs should maybe go even higher... When I watch people do dumb stuff in Air RB or suicide in GF RB with their tanks or planes a higher repair cost could probably make them rethink their actions... and we could end up with healthier gameplay :)

  • Haha 1
  • Confused 3
medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...