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Sukhoi Su-15TM (Flagon-F): Weaponry, Technology, and Advocacy for its Addition


NuclearPuker
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The Su-15 and it's associated weaponry for use in the game  

33 members have voted

  1. 1. Add the Su-15TM to the game? (I suggest reading the proposal and data beforehand)

    • Yes
      30
    • No
      0
    • There are caveats or other considerations to be addressed before it's addition (ex. other aircraft or technology to help balance)
      3
  2. 2. BR 10.0, 10.3, 10.7, or 11+ (if we ever get that BR) ?

    • 10.0
      7
    • 10.3
      9
    • 10.7
      12
    • 11 +
      6
  3. 3. Allow it to carry it's original load of 2x R-98 or R-98M medium range AAMs with either IR or radar homing seekers (read technical data before hand)

    • Yes
      28
    • No
      0
    • There are caveats or other considerations to be addressed
      5


Greetings folks! I'd like to share some data on a relatively less well-known aircraft but one that encompassed a significant portion of the USSR's interceptor and air defense fleet, the Sukhoi Su-15. For this post I'll be focusing on mainly the Su-15TM, a later model that was the second most produced variant and most advanced of the mass-produced variants. The source used for this post comes from the neat book I had just finished, Sukhoi Interceptors: The Su-9, Su-11, and Su-15: Unsung Soviet Cold War Heroes by Yefim Gordon and Dmitriy Komissarov. I won't be going over much of the history or development of the aircraft as that information can be more readily found. However, I will present some of the lesser known pieces of technical data, specifications, and or details about it's armaments that would be more applicable for adding the Su-15TM or other variants to the game. If anything is wrong, there's different data in another source, or if the data has been misinterpreted in any area, make sure to let me know or correct me please! I apologize ahead of time if anything is wrong. I'd like to see all the data I can get so we have the most accurate aircraft possible, thanks! The book was pretty data heavy and on the technical side but did include combat history and interesting stories. Very informative and enjoyable read. Additional photos from the internet and book as well as data charts from the book can be found in this. 

Enjoy!

 

Sukhoi Su-15TM (NATO reporting name: Flagon-F)

Title Image from the front page of Sukhoi Interceptors: The Su-9, Su-11, and Su-15: Unsung Soviet Cold War Heroes by Yefim Gordon and Dmitriy Komissarov.

 

Su-15TM.thumb.png.54c82e665c188218534e55

 

 

General Overview of Su-15TM:

  • Soviet designed, 1970's cold war, single seat, 2 engined, jet powered interceptor with afterburners capable of pushing the aircraft up to slightly over mach 2. Originally designed to take out supersonic and subsonic strategic bombers. Can carry AAMs, gun pods, small bombs, and FFAR pods. Bombs and FFAR's were put on testbed Su-15's and generally had no issues but just weren't accepted into service. Able to carry 2 drop tanks. 

 

Performance:

  • Indicated airspeed at sea level, km/h (mph): 1,300 (807).
  • Max true airspeed at 11,000 m (36,090 ft.), km/h (mph): 2,230 (1,385).
  • Service ceiling, m (ft): 18,000 (59,000).
  • Endurance: 1 hr, 41 min.
  • Climb time to base altitude, minutes: n.a.
  • Operational g-limit +6.5
  • Thrust/weight ratio: 0.7 (max 0.82)
  • Max mach number 2.1

 

Data from the book:

IMAG3014.thumb.jpg.361e657f446f9f9b76f58

 

 

Radar data:

  • Taifoon-M (for Su-15TM)
  • Target detection range, km (miles): at high altitude 65 (40.3), at low altitude 10 (6.2)
  • Target tracking range, km (miles): at high altitude 45 (27.9), at low altitude 10 (6.2)
  • Scan limits: azimuth +/- 70 degrees, elevation +30 degrees/-10 degrees

 

Image from the book:

IMAG3022.thumb.jpg.361fcf7b2cc219368190b

 

 

Missile Armament Data:

 

1. R-98 Medium Range AAM (IR or Radar Capable):

-Available in both SARH (R-98R) and IR (R-98T)

-"R-98T had a new TGS-14T seeker head giving it all aspect engagement capability."

-Design g-load (launched and tracking a target): 14

-Operational on-wing g-load (max launch g-load): 3

-Launch range, km (miles): Head on mode: 8-18 (5-11), pursuit mode: 2-14 (1.24-8.7), low altitude: n.a. (likely didn't have such ability like the R-98M did)

-Target elevation, m (ft): Head-on mode: 3000-4000 (9,940-13,120), data for pursuit mode and at low altitude is n.a.

Launch rails (outboard x2): PU-2-8

-Can be fired singly or in a salvo with a 0.5-second interval.

 

2. R-98M Medium Range AAM (IR or Radar Capable):

-Available in both SARH (R-98MR) and IR (R-98MT)

-Design g-load (launched and tracking a target): 14

-Operational on-wing g-load (max launch g-load): 3

-Launch range, km (miles): Head on mode: 5-24 (3.1-14.9), pursuit mode: 2-15 (1.24-9.3), low altitude: 2-3.5 (1.24-2.17)

-Target elevation, m (ft): Head-on mode: 4000-5000 (13,120-16,400), data for pursuit mode and at low altitude is n.a.

Launch rails (outboard x2): PU-2-8

-Can be fired singly or in a salvo with a 0.5-second interval.

 

3. R-60 Short Range IR AAM: (I already hear the questions, opinions, and hot takes coming on this one!)

-Design g-load (launched and tracking a target): 42 

(Side note: a German MiG-21 pilot form the book G-Force: Flying the World's Greatest Aircraft: First hand accounts from the pilots who                                                                                                  flew them in action says the R-60's could "turn at 45g." Y'all need to find the original design documents (sekrit dokuments) for this lol.                                                                                                      Could be a different pylons and or launch rails which facilitate this.)

-Operational on-wing g-load (max launch g-load): 5           

(In the above mentioned book the same pilot says "we could launch [R-60's] at 7g.")

-Launch range, km (miles): Head on mode: n.a. (R-60 is not all-aspect and thus is left blank), pursuit mode: 0.2-16 (0.12-9.93), at low altitude: 0.3-1.5 (0.18-0.93), data for pursuit mode and at low altitude is n.a.

Launch rails (inboard x2): PD-62 pylon with APU-60-1 (aka P-62-1) for the Su-15 sans suffixe that received mid-life updates, same rails as on the Su-15TM.

("1974/75 R-60 trails passed on the Su-15TM with integration in situ from 1979 onward").

 

Standard loadout:

  • x2 R-98s (usually one IR and one SARH), x2 R-60s, and either x2 drop tanks or x2 UPK-23-250 gun pods.

 

Image from the book:

IMAG3011.thumb.jpg.cd098fa934db864b28fa7

 

Another image from the book:

IMAG3018.thumb.jpg.bff18a722988b6dd31531

 

Data from the book:

IMAG3008.thumb.jpg.39faebaff6adf9bc47eb1

 

Internet photo:

Sukhoi_SU-15TM_K-8_or_R-98.jpg.cdb889d20

 

 

Secondary Armaments- Bombs, 23mm Gun Pods, and FFAR Pods:

  • "PU-2-8 pylons could be replaced with BD3-57M bomb racks (beam-type rack for group 3 ordinance; that is, up to 250 kg / 551 lb. calibre, 1957 model, updated) for air-to-ground targets."
  • 2 fuselage "wet" hardpoints (BD3-57M) pylons for carrying UPK-23-250 gun pods, "each housing a Gryazev/Shipunov GSh-23 twin barreled 23mm cannon with 250 rounds, for use against ground or aerial targets." These hardpoints could carry 2 fuel drop tanks.
  • x2 OFAB-250-270 bombs on the fuselage hardpoints (part of the "strike mission suitability tests")
  • x2 UB-32A FFAR pods on the outer pylons (part of the "strike mission suitability tests")

 

Image from the book:

IMAG3013.thumb.jpg.be57ff924bff17f6f8a1d

 

 

Avionics and Equipment- IFF, ESM, and Countermeasures:

  • IFF Equipment: "SRO-1P Parol' IFF transponder with triangular aerials under the forward and rear fuselage and SOD-58M ATC/SIF transponder with flush aerial in the fin."
  • ESM Equpiment: "(Su-15TM) SPO-10 Sirena-3 radar warning receiver (RWR)."
  • ECM/IRCM countermeasures (only used on a testbed Su-15, not pushed into service): The Su-15 underwent trials to mount ECM/IRCM countermeasures, the device was a single "converted drop tank mounted on the starboard the fuselage pylon. The pod featured the APP-50, automatic passive jammer, and the pod could fire 50mm PPI-50 magnesium flares (infrared flares) to decoy IR-homing missiles or PPR-50 chaff bundles to jam radar and the radar seekers of AAMs. IR countermeasure fired at different angles (vertically, horizontally, or 45 degrees down). PPR-50s (chaff bundles) were used in a different type of pod."

 

Image from the book:

IMAG3020.thumb.jpg.a57ddf1d8a55506975ba8

 

 

Advocacy and Conclusions:

Internet photo:

ec-1k-xkae2znr.jpg.247517bbe509723e034c1

 

The Su-15TM would be an excellent addition to War Thunder. It's a really neat aircraft and it's technology helps to makes the game a little less stagnant in air battles. Utilizing the Su-15TM's medium range R-98s that excel at high altitude, and are able to do head-on attacks, would lead typical dogfighters to fight on the deck where the Su-15TM's radar and R-98s would be less effective. The Su-15 wasn't designed to dogfight and would act as more of a support fighter unable to fight on it's own, lacking the maneuverability and countermeasures (only used on a testbed) to defend itself as well as it's contemporaries. It does however have R-60s for self defense and can equip gun pods at the expense of more weight and loss of agility. We already have the Matra R530E AAMs with a range of 15 km and Red Tops with 12 km, why not keep pushing the envelope and trying longer range AAMs and countermeasures for them? An increase in universal map sizes and more dynamic (less flat) terrain would help to prevent across the maps snipes and easier evasion for those that might see these medium range AAMs as potential "instant kills." But I digress, for that is a topic for another suggestion.

 

Some of the technology that was mentioned as "not put into service" is there to provide some answers to potential questions and add food for thought on whether Gaijin should actually add these pieces of tech it didn't use in service.

 

Even though I think the aircraft itself is the coolest part of the whole package, talking about it being in-game means including the munitions it was primarily designed to utilize in the conversation. Therefore, this post is also about the medium range IR and SARH AAMs it carries as well as the potential of putting IR and SARH AAMs in the game.

 

Is the Su-15TM a good candidate to add in War Thunder? Should these medium range missiles be added? AIM-7 Sparrows and it's contemporaries for other nations as balance? I'd love to hear all of y'all's feedback! If there are any questions about the Su-15 and its technology I'll do my best to answer them, thanks!

 

 

Source:

 Sukhoi Interceptors: The Su-9, Su-11, and Su-15: Unsung Soviet Cold War Heroes by Yefim Gordon and Dmitriy Komissarov

 

71wHBjk4RvL.thumb.jpg.7cb0c0b109822f04a6


 

 

 

Another internet photo:

Su-15_Flagon.jpg

Edited by NuclearPuker
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  • 9 months later...

+1

Look at this posts:

https://live.warthunder.com/post/969510/en/

https://live.warthunder.com/post/969512/en/

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  • 5 months later...
On 13/09/2021 at 18:50, The_Baron3 said:

This would certainly be a cool addition to the game, though without any unarmed passenger planes being in the game it would be left without its primary target.

 

That was dark... 

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On 13/09/2021 at 22:50, The_Baron3 said:

Это, безусловно, было бы классным дополнением к игре, хотя без каких-либо невооруженных пассажирских самолетов в игре он остался бы без своей основной цели.

The same can be said about the F-4E....

On February 21, 1973, a Boeing 727-224 (registration number 5A-DAH) of the Libyan airline Libyan Arab Airlines, following flight LN114 from Tripoli to Bahrain with stops in Benghazi, Alexandria and Cairo, got into a dust storm and went off course. Over the Sinai Peninsula near the city of Ismailia, the plane was shot down by F-4 Phantom II interceptors of the Israeli Air Force, whose pilots believed that the airliner was hijacked by terrorists and was heading to the nuclear research center in Dimona. 108 people were killed, five survived.

 

On April 20, 1978, a Boeing 707-321B (registration number HL7429) of the South Korean airline Korean Air Lines was following flight 902 from Paris to Seoul via Anchorage. The pilots of the airliner lost their course due to a navigation error and invaded the airspace of the USSR in the region of Karelia. The plane was forced to land on the ice of the frozen lake Korpiyarvi by Soviet Air Force Su-15 interceptors, which fired missiles, one of which damaged the liner, causing the passenger compartment to depressurize. There were 97 passengers and 12 crew members on board, two passengers were killed by rocket fragments, 13 people were injured. Two days later, the passengers were taken by an American plane from Murmansk to Finland. The Korean pilots admitted their guilt in violating the airspace of the USSR, applied for clemency and were expelled from the Soviet Union.

Edited by PLESETZK
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