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Were F104s in US service equipped with the AIM-9J?


Some sources mention the 9J was rushed into service during the Vietnam War in time for Operation Linebacker in 1972, however other sources mention they were first delivered to the USAF in 1977. The F104 was relegated to service in the Puerto Rican national guard by that point and was replaced in 1975- would these planes in national guard service have been equipped with the AIM-9J given they were not a front line combat unit?

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I made some historical research; On the Wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rico_Air_National_Guard it said it had F104 stationed but no information about AIM-9J equipped F104.

 

On this French Wikipedia page: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_F-104_Starfighter#Hobson2001, it says that the F104J version was equipped with Sidewinder AA missiles, but no information on the AIM-9 types...Most probably an earlyv ersion, but not sure if AIM-9J was part of this for this F104J.

 

The F-104J was basically an interceptor version of the F-104G (which was the most produced variant of the F-104 in total).

 

However on this French Wikipedia page  https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_F-104_Starfighter#Guerre_du_Viêt_Nam   it says "Le F-104 resta néanmoins dans les rangs de la Garde nationale de Porto Rico jusqu'en 1975" (The F-104 nethetheless satyed in the ranks of the Puerto Rican Air National Guard until 1975), so that corroborates what you said about the end of service in 1975

 

Almso an information "In 1967, these TAC aircraft were transferred to the Air National Guard." source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_F-104_Starfighter#Vietnam_War

 

Here a preserved F-104B still on Puerto Rico!

 

https://www.i-f-s.nl/preserved-f-104s/preserved-in-puerto-rico/

 

1315921189_F-104BPuertoRico.thumb.PNG.18

Apparently Puerto Rico had mostly early version of F-104's, so I would say not equipped with AIM-9J or maybe with primitive earlier versions of the SIdewinder (which would be almost useless..)

 

Note that some F-104 were fitted with AIM-7 Sparrow AA missiles which are also good missiles!

 

 

F104 C landing in Puerto Rico (date unknown)

 

http://www.916-starfighter.de/Large/Special/PRANG_05.htm

 

647291944_F-104C_0-60898_PuertoRicoAirNa

 

Description: 



 

Note: no Sidewinders as you can see!

 

 

 

TOTAL FORCE CONCEPT

 

 

A very interesting paragraph about the ANG (Air National Guard) of the USA during the 1970's which was also stationed in Puerto Rico

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_National_Guard#Post_Cold_War_era

 

 

 

Quote "As part of the re-thinking of military concepts after the Vietnam War, beginning in the early 1970s with the establishment of the All-Volunteer Armed Forces, both the Air National Guard and Air Force Reserve force planning and policymaking were influenced by the "Total Force" Concept and have remained so to this day. The concept sought to strengthen and rebuild public confidence in the reserve forces while saving money by reducing the size of the active duty force. In practical terms, the Total Force policy sought to ensure that all policymaking, planning, programming, and budgetary activities within the Defense Department considered active and reserve forces concurrently and determined the most efficient mix of those forces in terms of costs versus contributions to national security. The policy also insured that Reservists and Guardsmen, not draftees, would be the first and primary source of manpower to augment the active duty forces in any future crisis.[21]"

Edited by Theoask79
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Basically, the Americans never equipped AIM-9Js (or at least I have yet to see anything indicating otheriwse) and the countries in game that did actively use AIM-9Js (or Ps in the case of the JASDF) are China (the CN F-104G has them) and Japan (the F-104J irritatingly still doesn't have them).

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  • 1 month later...

As stated above, the USAF only operated the F-104A, B, C and D versions until 1975.  The AIM-9J was rushed into service during the Vietnam War in 1972, with priority given to the units in South-East Asia (the AIM-9J actually scored three kills during the conflict, fielded by F-4Ds of the 523rd and 555th TFS and expended against 2 MiG-19s and 1 MiG-21).

 

By that time, however, the few remaining F-104s of the PRANG were already considered as obsolete equipment, thus they would not have been earmarked for any armament upgrades.  These F-104Cs never carried anything else than the AIM-9B.

 

However, AIM-9Js did appear on USAF-marked F-104s - these being the F-104Gs of the US-based training units of the Luftwaffe.  Luftwaffe aircraft based in the US were prohibited from wearing German markings, hence the confusion.

 

From what I found, the following Sidewinder variants were used by the following operators:

 

AIM-9B only:

- Belgian Air Force (F-104G/TF-104G, 1963-1983)

- Royal Canadian Air Force/Canadian Armed Forces (CF-104, CF-104D, 1962-1987)

- Royal Danish Air Force (F-104G, TF-104G, CF-104, CF-104D, 1964-1986)

- Royal Jordanian Air Force (F-104A, F-104B, 1967-1983)

- Pakistan Air Force (F-104A, F-104B, 1961-1972)

- Ejército del Aire/Spain (F-104G, TF-104G, 1965-1972)

- United States Air Force (F-104A, F-104B, F-104C, F-104D, 1958-1975)

 

AIM-9B, upgraded to AIM-9J/N/P:

- Greek Air Force (F-104G, TF-104G, 1964-1993)

- Japan Self-Defense Air Force (F-104J, F-104DJ, 1962-1986)

- Royal Netherlands Air Force (F-104G, TF-104G, 1963-1984)

- Royal Norwegian Air Force (F-104G, TF-104G, CF-104, CF-104D, 1963-1982)

 

AIM-9B, upgraded to AIM-9J/N/P, upgraded to AIM-9L

- German Air Force (TF-104F, F-104G, TF-104G, 1960-1991)

- Republic of China Air Force (F-104A, F-104B, F-104D, F-104G, F-104J, F-104DJ, TF-104G, 1960-1997) - F-104A, B & D only carried the AIM-9B

- Turkish Air Force (F-104G, TF-104G, CF-104, CF-104D, F-104S, 1963-1995)

 

AIM-9B, upgraded to AIM-9L

- Italian Air Force (F-104G, TF-104G, TF-104GM, F-104S, F-104S/ASA, F-104S/ASA/M, 1963-2004) - F-104G, TF-104G/GM & F-104S only carried AIM-9B; F-104S/ASA and ASA/M were AIM-9L capable.

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  • 3 months later...
On 19/07/2020 at 13:11, Kanyiko said:

AIM-9B, upgraded to AIM-9J/N/P:

- Greek Air Force (F-104G, TF-104G, 1964-1993)

- Japan Self-Defense Air Force (F-104J, F-104DJ, 1962-1986)

- Royal Netherlands Air Force (F-104G, TF-104G, 1963-1984)

- Royal Norwegian Air Force (F-104G, TF-104G, CF-104, CF-104D, 1963-1982)

 

AIM-9B, upgraded to AIM-9J/N/P, upgraded to AIM-9L

- German Air Force (TF-104F, F-104G, TF-104G, 1960-1991)

- Republic of China Air Force (F-104A, F-104B, F-104D, F-104G, F-104J, F-104DJ, TF-104G, 1960-1997) - F-104A, B & D only carried the AIM-9B

- Turkish Air Force (F-104G, TF-104G, CF-104, CF-104D, F-104S, 1963-1995)

 

AIM-9B, upgraded to AIM-9L

- Italian Air Force (F-104G, TF-104G, TF-104GM, F-104S, F-104S/ASA, F-104S/ASA/M, 1963-2004) - F-104G, TF-104G/GM & F-104S only carried AIM-9B; F-104S/ASA and ASA/M were AIM-9L capable.

 

Have you thought about collating some sources together and getting proper bug reports made on the JASDF and Luftwaffe F-104s? I think there might be one on the F-104J but there definitely should be a report made about the F-104G, it would really help the German F-104G not be total cack

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  • 2 months later...
On 19/07/2020 at 22:11, Kanyiko said:

As stated above, the USAF only operated the F-104A, B, C and D versions until 1975.  The AIM-9J was rushed into service during the Vietnam War in 1972, with priority given to the units in South-East Asia (the AIM-9J actually scored three kills during the conflict, fielded by F-4Ds of the 523rd and 555th TFS and expended against 2 MiG-19s and 1 MiG-21).

 

By that time, however, the few remaining F-104s of the PRANG were already considered as obsolete equipment, thus they would not have been earmarked for any armament upgrades.  These F-104Cs never carried anything else than the AIM-9B.

 

However, AIM-9Js did appear on USAF-marked F-104s - these being the F-104Gs of the US-based training units of the Luftwaffe.  Luftwaffe aircraft based in the US were prohibited from wearing German markings, hence the confusion.

 

From what I found, the following Sidewinder variants were used by the following operators:

 

AIM-9B only:

- Belgian Air Force (F-104G/TF-104G, 1963-1983)

- Royal Canadian Air Force/Canadian Armed Forces (CF-104, CF-104D, 1962-1987)

- Royal Danish Air Force (F-104G, TF-104G, CF-104, CF-104D, 1964-1986)

- Royal Jordanian Air Force (F-104A, F-104B, 1967-1983)

- Pakistan Air Force (F-104A, F-104B, 1961-1972)

- Ejército del Aire/Spain (F-104G, TF-104G, 1965-1972)

- United States Air Force (F-104A, F-104B, F-104C, F-104D, 1958-1975)

 

AIM-9B, upgraded to AIM-9J/N/P:

- Greek Air Force (F-104G, TF-104G, 1964-1993)

- Japan Self-Defense Air Force (F-104J, F-104DJ, 1962-1986)

- Royal Netherlands Air Force (F-104G, TF-104G, 1963-1984)

- Royal Norwegian Air Force (F-104G, TF-104G, CF-104, CF-104D, 1963-1982)

 

AIM-9B, upgraded to AIM-9J/N/P, upgraded to AIM-9L

- German Air Force (TF-104F, F-104G, TF-104G, 1960-1991)

- Republic of China Air Force (F-104A, F-104B, F-104D, F-104G, F-104J, F-104DJ, TF-104G, 1960-1997) - F-104A, B & D only carried the AIM-9B

- Turkish Air Force (F-104G, TF-104G, CF-104, CF-104D, F-104S, 1963-1995)

 

AIM-9B, upgraded to AIM-9L

- Italian Air Force (F-104G, TF-104G, TF-104GM, F-104S, F-104S/ASA, F-104S/ASA/M, 1963-2004) - F-104G, TF-104G/GM & F-104S only carried AIM-9B; F-104S/ASA and ASA/M were AIM-9L capable.

Where can I find any sources that Turkish F-104S were equipped with Aim-9J?

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