Arne7

Sherman II & IV & V: The Swedish Evaluation Shermans

A referendrum to welcome a new member, Sweden, to the International Communist Sherman Tank Union  

79 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you like to see (Swedish) Sherman II / M4A2 added?

    • Yes
      37
    • No
      42
  2. 2. Would you like to see (Swedish) Sherman IV / M4(105) added?

    • Yes
      32
    • No
      47
  3. 3. Would you like to see (Swedish) Sherman V / Sherman Firefly added?

    • Yes
      35
    • No
      44


105-01.thumb.jpg.e6d1ee00658f14403fe6b5efirefly-01.thumb.jpg.fa581677a8ee0cb6ad9

(Left: Sherman IV (10,5 cm Sherman), Right: Sherman V (Firefly), Source: Westerlund/Försvarsstabens pressavdelning)

 

By 1945, the war was over, Victory in Europe then Victory in Pacific (Asia) months later. Sweden had its own experience with armoured vehicles, but none grizzled or battle-hardened as the Americans, British, German, and Russians. In 1946 and 1947, the Swedish army purchased four Shermans from British surplus, and those Shermans were hand-picked and never were the same. They bought following:
* Sherman II (M4A2)

* Sherman III (M4A4, completely stripped off of any armaments)

* Sherman IV (M4 with 10,5 cm howitzer)

* Sherman V (M4A4 Firefly, this one had a Chrysler engine)

 

For a unknown period starting early as the purchases, the Swedish used the Shermans in numerous field trails and performance trails under field-like conditions. Numerous reports were written about the trails and the performance. Not much else is known about the Shermans in Swedish possession, they may been become demoted to shooting range targets.

 

The three Shermans, II, IV, and V are underrated and rather forgotten bricks towards to the Swedish armoured vehicles as we I know it. Giving the Swedes impression of how the others designed their tanks and what design considerations that they needed to take into mind when picking a tank fit for the rather diverse field conditions of the north.

 

Since the others have Sherman tanks, and Sweden did have legally (read, not captures) possessed and operated Sherman tanks, to limited extend as they were for study and evaluation purposes only. Adding them would add a familiar face to the Swedish tree and perhaps give more opportunities to a more diverse playstyle when playing as Sweden, fill some gaps in the ratings and tree itself.

 

Pictures & Livery

Spoiler

Photos of Sherman IV (10,5 cm Sherman) from a Swedish winter exercise sometime after 1947(?)

idk-man.jpg.d70b6809b629cb2a85ffc11f8c3dfirefly-02.jpg.44729dd8fd6ca89fe53f8bc64iv-02.jpg.9734d3dbc10cb368c289b20257a8fciv-01.thumb.jpg.bf8aadffe73acca49aaaeb65

(Source: Westerlund/Försvarsstabens pressavdelning)

 

Keep in mind that the characteristics below are copy-and-pastes of original characteristics, but are modified if sources say otherwise.

Characteristics (Sherman II)

Spoiler

General

- Crew: 4 (Driver, Gunner, Loader, Commander)

 

Powerplant: General Motors 6046 (375 hp)

   

Performance:

- Max speed: 32 km/h

 

Armament:

- Primary: 1x 75 mm M3 cannon

- Secondary: 1x 7,62 mm Browning M1919

 

Characteristics (Sherman IV)

Spoiler

General

- Crew: 4 (Driver, Gunner, Loader, Commander)

 

Powerplant: Ford GAA V-8 petrol engine (450 or 500 hp)

   

Performance:

- Max speed: 41 km/h

 

Armament:

- Primary: 1x 105 mm M4 howitzer

- Secondary: 1x 7,62 mm Browning M1919

 

 Characteristics (Sherman V)

Spoiler

General

- Crew: 4 (Driver, Gunner, Loader, Commander)

 

Powerplant: Chrysler A57 (370 hp)

   

Performance:

- Max speed: 32 km/h

 

Armament:

- Primary: 1x 76.2 mm QF-17 Pounder

- Secondary: 1x 7,62 mm Browning M1919

 

Sources:

Primary:

(Swedish, report) Ainsp/C no 23:8 15/3 1948 - Sten Koch, Archival reference: SE/KrA/0363/005:H/F I/3 (Online PDF mirror provided at: http://tanks.mod16.org/pdf/Sherman Askersund 1948.pdf)

 

Secondary:

(English, blog) http://tanks.mod16.org/2016/09/30/swedish-impressions-of-the-sherman/

(English, blog) http://tanks.mod16.org/2016/10/01/swedish-impressions-of-the-sherman-part-2/

(English, book) The Encyclopedia of Weapons of World War II, Chris Bishop, MetroBooks, New York 1998, ISBN: 1-58663-762-2 (For characteristics)

(English) https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ (For characteristics)

Edited by Arne7
Fix some problems pointed out by moderation
  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Open for discussion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it could fill those pathetic holes in the low tiers.. it's ok for me.

 

And as we have the T-34 mod 43 in the Chinese 3 (as its never known service in PLA), I'll not be very surprised to see one or two in the Swedish tree.

Edited by Sternjager
  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not so keen on adding vehicles that weren't used in service to fill gaps that could very well be filled by unique vehicles. As it stands all of these vehicles have Swedish or otherwise unique vehicles that can fill the same BR spot in the tree.

  • Like 2
medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No more Sherman’s please. The Italians getting them was a nail in the coffin for me. It just ruins RB and SB lineups. Making their match making effectively mixed battles. 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 5
medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 31/05/2020 at 00:27, Solarmod said:

Honestly I would feel like this would've been better received if Italy didn't get a ton of Shermans for some ungodly reason.

It was already too many Shermans before Italy got them.

Besides i'm grinding trough Sweden and don't want another Sherman Barrier to go trough

  • Like 1
medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Cpt_Jack_Irons said:

It was already too many Shermans before Italy got them.

Besides i'm grinding trough Sweden and don't want another Sherman Barrier to go trough

I get where you're coming from, but I would've preferred just one Sherman as an event vehicle, or a limited premium, cause "Everyone needs a Sherman."

 

I still hope they remove the Italian Shermans >>

  • Like 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Solarmod said:

I get where you're coming from, but I would've preferred just one Sherman as an event vehicle, or a limited premium, cause "Everyone needs a Sherman."

 

I still hope they remove the Italian Shermans >>

"Everyone needs a Sherman" meme isn't even that funny, also Gaijin will not remove those Italian Shermans

Edited by Cpt_Jack_Irons
medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Shermans never serviced with the Swedish army. If u add the Shermans then u might as well add the Swedish Tiger II, Panther, Stug III and Comet as they will be 10x more useful.
Swedish ground forces tech tree for War Thunder proposal by PikPikker

Tank museum Axvalla/Strangnas. English version

StugIIIG.jpg

Comet. Ref 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, blockhaj said:

The Shermans never serviced with the Swedish army. If u add the Shermans then u might as well add the Swedish Tiger II, Panther, Stug III and Comet as they will be 10x more useful.

 

I would not mind to see these vehicles in game also! :D

 

  • Sad 2
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, blockhaj said:

The Shermans never serviced with the Swedish army. If u add the Shermans then u might as well add the Swedish Tiger II, Panther, Stug III and Comet as they will be 10x more useful.

 

Maybe a Finnish Comet as a premium? Finnish army bought 40 of them in 60's together with Charioteers. Would make more sense than one-off test vehicles.

  • Upvote 4
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.