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Helicopters ruining gameplay SB


2 hours ago, Hussar91 said:

 

If you read the post I mention multiple helicopters, I know you've come in here with the attitude that the world revolves around just you but I've got sad news for you fella. It doesn't. One of the helicopters simply climbed up, up and away and then put auto hover on and started firing missiles of along with you. I can't remember their name but the replay would show who it is. 

 

 

Fair enough, I actually didn't know you could do this so no, I didn't know how that part of the game works. It doesn't really matter for me, I don't have any good AA, I've got the M42 Duster, the Falcon and my only good AA is the ZSU-23-4. I can't remember exactly what you explained to me because, as everyone else on here can see for themselves, you have a habit of talking too much. 

 

 

Ok so I don't have decent AA but I have got jets....but as you rightly point out, they can't get to the battlefield in time, allowing you total freedom to destroy an entire team in and around their spawn. And actually your claim that we didn't have AA for 80% of our games is pure nonsense. We had AA, they were easily outmatched immediately and you then set about the rest of us who can't even lase you properly at those distances despite the fact that tanks lasers are perfectly capable out to 10km and on some platforms, even further but even if we could you can just dodge them because you can watch something moving at many times quicker than the speed of sound. I'm a tank crewman. Engaging targets multiple kilometres away we can see the trace at the rear but that trace burns out and then the next thing you see is the impact. As a helicopter you would not be able to watch those rounds in and actually a near miss would damage your helicopter too due to the immense pressure wave that is created.

 

 

Presumably because you did exactly the same as what you did when you playing as the USSR. If you've got a decent AA or a jet and have used that then great. Perhaps you got lucky with your teams, Lennox I don't know and nor do I pretend to have all the answers. What I do know from my own experience is how broken the implementation of attack helicopters is in this game and that's particularly bad in Ground SB hence I came here and made my point (which the majority clearly agree with) and then talked to you to actually thank you for demonstrating just how bad it can be because now we've got the video evidence. 

 

Disgusting. It was disgusting. Spawnkilled in some games twice by helis and all the while your ground forces mainly drove to the spawn too. When I played with you on the Soviets later that night I observed you and I observed what the team was doing. Initially on Eastern Europe and then on that Desert map that I can't remember the name of with the castles and dunes one side. You and the helicopters made that event so poisonous, people routinely left before spawning at all because they recognized the same players and you even laughed about it in team chat like an ACE-hole. 

 

Frankly I'm done with debating with you fella, I've said my piece at the start and put it to the forum, now the rest of the forum can say what they think. I have no interest in wasting my time going back and forth with you like a boring game of tennis as you try to justify the way things are to me with a level of smugness/ sarcasm that you simply wouldn't get away with in a face to face conversation. 

 dont forget, spawn kill  only occurred when the battle line of tanks is broken, or leak  one player  to the spwan point.  so , remember, nato side have the better top 10.3 tanks. the teamwork on u side is bad, a typical nato player just want to win with the better tanks which could easily kill 64B or  72A, or T55AM, but they never think about what if the USSR have same maneuverability as they have, only blame to the spawn kill. The win rate in USSR only bring by the top player who also play nato well and never chose the stupid tanks like 55AM T64 . how easy  to blame the lost to the opposite tooooo strong and how hard to introspect yourself.

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On 24/04/2020 at 05:57, DerGrafVonZahl said:

flight model is decent in the same way the aircraft FMs are. 

Well almost.

My biggest issue with how helis fly is ability to pull ridiculous manouvers without breaking the rotor blades. You can pull joystick all the way in a turn at 300km/h with fully loaded heli and rotor will be fine. You can do barell rolls, loops pull ridiculous Gs for helicopters. 

 

On top of this, the easymode missile aiming and guiding. 

 

Ka50 has RWR while it does not have one in reality, only laser ilumination warning which frankly does not exist in game.

 

Some early helicopters which should have MCLOS missiles only, can guide them like SACLOS despite the fact they don't have any laser designator.

 

But the biggest issue is not helicopters and their simplified easymode implementations, but the tank maps. In current form the tank maps are simulating target practice on proving grounds for helicopters.

Helicopter mouse and autohover operators know exactly that all targets and any AAA threats will be spawned in 1kmx1km square. They don't have to search for targets, they don't have to avoid hidden IR guided missile launchers and manpads - which IRL are biggest threat for helis. 

It is literally engage autohover, climb a bit, mouse look, zoom,2 clicks and the tank is dead.

This is not sim flying, this is turkey shoot in training.

 

Tanks should have laser ilumination detectors and most of modern ones should pop smoke automatically when laser is detected.

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1 hour ago, Sputnik_77 said:

Well almost.

My biggest issue with how helis fly is ability to pull ridiculous manouvers without breaking the rotor blades. You can pull joystick all the way in a turn at 300km/h with fully loaded heli and rotor will be fine. You can do barell rolls, loops pull ridiculous Gs for helicopters. 

 

Weird I am sure I ripped my rotors in the past. But maybe that was a "fix" gaijin introduced. 

 

1 hour ago, Sputnik_77 said:

On top of this, the easymode missile aiming and guiding. 

 

Well i agrred on the use of mouse aim... So that isn't really in dispute. 

 

1 hour ago, Sputnik_77 said:

Ka50 has RWR while it does not have one in reality, only laser ilumination warning which frankly does not exist in game.

 

I agree, but as with jets where all radar screens etc are the same I can live with some generalizations. As long as the vehicle behaves like a helicopter (it does not have to be 100% like a ka 50).

 

As no tank is even remotely operated like a tank helicopters are far ahead and the second best implementation of a vehicle type after turret less planes. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Sputnik_77 said:

 

Some early helicopters which should have MCLOS missiles only, can guide them like SACLOS despite the fact they don't have any laser designator.

 

Fine, but again... That is the modeling of the weapons stem not the helicopter itself. 

 

1 hour ago, Sputnik_77 said:

But the biggest issue is not helicopters and their simplified easymode implementations, but the tank maps. In current form the tank maps are simulating target practice on proving grounds for helicopters.

 

I don't think that this is the biggest issue as realism trumps authenticity in my opinion. And this is an authentity issue not a realism issue. But Our milage may vary. 

 

To me the main problem in SB GF is the implementation of the tanks themselves. There is nothing about them that fits in a sim. 

 

1 hour ago, Sputnik_77 said:

Helicopter mouse and autohover operators know exactly that all targets and any AAA threats will be spawned in 1kmx1km square. They don't have to search for targets, they don't have to avoid hidden IR guided missile launchers and manpads - which IRL are biggest threat for helis. 

It is literally engage autohover, climb a bit, mouse look, zoom,2 clicks and the tank is dead.

This is not sim flying, this is turkey shoot in training.

 

True, but this is mission design not a fault with the helicopters themselves. 

 

1 hour ago, Sputnik_77 said:

Tanks should have laser ilumination detectors and most of modern ones should pop smoke automatically when laser is detected.

 

If they had it irl then yes. But there is a long list of features tanks shouldn't have and they still do. 

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10 hours ago, IKG51_Lennox said:

 

That they're balanced ? Of course nothing is balanced against exceptional players, how come if the Ka-52 is so OP the average Winratio of the Ka-52 is not skyrocketing ? Why is it at 58% ? I can even look up the AH64D stats and I'm pretty sure they are almost the same ... You guys really crack me up. 

 

Come'on fella, they aren't exploiting a broken game mechanic. You're spawn camping in sim mode.

 

10 hours ago, GA19th_callmeDL said:

dont forget how hard to get ka52 and master it,OK? In sim battle, player who paly well in NATO, can only play good  on 80U. ussr side is hard to win,tooooooooooo many trash on USSR side, each round i have to kill at least 4  to win ,or we will lost.

 

I'm sure it's rough, and it's probably balanced. The problem isn't the weapons platform performing in its intended role. The problem is abusing broken game mechanics. 

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So guys, if I may ask . .what control setup are you guys using in SIM mode? mouse  . .aim? . .joystick +mouse?

 

Are you locked in cockpit view?

 

Are the controls simplified or realistic?

Edited by Twisted
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1 minute ago, Twisted said:

So guys, if I may ask . .what control setup are you guys using in SIM mode? mouse  . .aim? . .joystick +mouse?

 

Are you locked in cockpit view?

 

Are the controls simplified or realistic?

When I tried to play helicopters in SIM it did lock you in 1st person view, be it pilot seat, gunner seat, or gun camera. The controls are basically the same as sim planes, you can use mouse joy in either mode and the restrictions are the same. You need auto level or dampening to control them though. I tried using mouse joy but it was too derpy and glitchy to be enjoyable.

 

Any time I went into gunner view, it reset all my control inputs to neutral despite me turning that off in every setting relating to it I could find. This caused the helicopter to level off any time I tried to use the gunner view to find or shoot something, which made it impossible to launch atgms because of the narrow launch window on the hinds. I think with a joystick this wouldn't be a problem, but for me right now helicopter SB is completely unplayable, you are fighting a constant battle against the game trying to wrestle control of your helicopter from you and level it off. With a helicopter like a KA 50 with 10km range this probably wouldn't be as much of a problem as you have a much wider firing area at that range.

 

As for the small map sizes, it is a double edged sword. You know where all the enemy tanks are, but if you get within rocket range of any single one of them, every single tank on the enemy team can shred you with rooftop mgs. So small maps don't really help helicopters, they just force them to stay away from the battlefield and use their atgms only, as rocket attacks are suicidal. The small maps make it much less fun for both the tanks and the helos, tanks are fish in a barrel and helicopters are forced to stay miles away and spam atgms instead of sneaking in for rocket attacks or shorter range atgms. If you don't have super powerful long range atgms, you are boned.

 

People say they hate helicopters, but they really hate a select few of them: The ones that launch Atakas, Vikhrs, or Hellfires. Most other helicopters are so hard to actually use in sim that they aren't a problem. Guiding a Falanga or TOW or even a shturm onto the target from out of SPAA or main cannon range is not easy, and in many cases the atgms just randomly drift completely off target right before impact (glitch?) And being restricted to semi realistic controls and cockpit view while tanks below you can easily spot and mouse aim you to death makes rocket attacks very unreliable. You are more likely to just get turned into a depleted uranium kebab than actually kill anything with a rocket. Maybe the S13DFs are different but I have no helicopter that can launch them and from playing the Mi-24D and V a little bit, helicopters are not worth the SL cost of spawning.

 

Oh and one other big problem helos have that tanks don't is that they cannot fight and manouver at the same time. Imagine if tanks had to switch to driver view mode to drive, and could only fire from gunner view. Thats how it is on a helo, so you can't do pop up attacks or anything like that because you will just drift into a tree that you can't see from gunner view. And if you exit gunner view, unless you have one of those auto aim helicopters, your atgm just goes flying off in a random direction.

 

So unless helicopters get multi crew for gunner and pilot, flying anything but the most modern ones in the game is going to suck.

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3 hours ago, DeucesWiId said:

 

Come'on fella, they aren't exploiting a broken game mechanic. You're spawn camping in sim mode.

 

 

Yes, guess why I'm spawncamping ? Ding ding, -100 points to the candidate that didn't figure out that 80% of the games are basically without any AA at all, furthermore if AA is deployed in the 20% they are just really, really bad.

 

You know what's funny ? I could tell you all the names of all the Sim Ka52 Pilots that play the Helo on a regular basis and you would still say it's OP, even though the KDA as well as Winratio is complete garbage.

When I said it takes exceptional AA players to beat the Ka-52 with the right tactics I was speaking how to defeat the best players and that includes me, my squad and 2-3 other guys ... I'm not even joking when I say I'm probably the best Sim Helo Pilot out there, I mean Stats don't lie and the second best Ka-52 Pilot isn't even close to my Stats (570 Battles, 94% WR, 7.7+ KDA).

 

Of course you can beat your average Joe with lesser tactics and I know these guys drop likes flies (because I literally see it) out of the Sky even to Otomatics, but when you ask how to beat someone, you obviously (well according to you not that obviously) the best to the lowest, it's only getting easier that way ... Of course I could say use the Otomatic and I'm basically right, that will work against 80% of the Sim Pilots but the other 20% need better tactics, of those 20% you can beat 15% with the usual Radar tricks and the other 5% you need to be exceptional and one of the best AA players, but you simply refuse to understand that.

 

I mean you literally have stats from different people in this thread, but of course you don't even bother checking them out, we have a guy here with a 47% WR and another one with (last time I checked) 50-55% on the Ka-52, average WR at 58% ... Want me to continue when the Abrams was introduced the WR skyrocketed to 70+% ? Or the Leclerc to about 65%+ ? M1A1 as well ? Leopard 2A5 ? Why didn't people complain back then (except the Russian Community), why are they complaining about things that have been more broken for several months but now when the tides have turned all of a sudden Russia are the baddies ?

 

High Tier Sim ALWAYS has been in favor of NATO and it still is, the average Winratio didn't change and the majority of the games is still won by NATO, but when people get tied up against the best Sim players (once again, feel free to check all of our Stats and the people I play with) they start complaining and crying.

 

3 hours ago, DeucesWiId said:

I'm sure it's rough, and it's probably balanced. The problem isn't the weapons platform performing in its intended role. The problem is abusing broken game mechanics. 

 

Funny, I ve tried so hard to explain it's not broken and you can easily wreck Ka-52 at the start of the game but it seems it's like talking against a wall ...

 

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On 24/04/2020 at 06:11, DerGrafVonZahl said:

 

XD... That is actually sort of true. 

 

Tanks being entirely arcade in sim is one of my major concerns with the game. 

 

However helicopters do have a few issues. The overly potent hover mode and mouse aim in gunner view. 

Other than that I think they are fine. 

 

 

From a missiondesign perspective the close helipad needs to be removed. 

 

But that's about it. You only get swarmed by helicopters if your planes don't mop them up. 

 

bro wtf are you smoking helis can smoke jets in this game

 

  

On 25/04/2020 at 18:03, Sputnik_77 said:

Well almost.

My biggest issue with how helis fly is ability to pull ridiculous manouvers without breaking the rotor blades. You can pull joystick all the way in a turn at 300km/h with fully loaded heli and rotor will be fine. You can do barell rolls, loops pull ridiculous Gs for helicopters. 

 

On top of this, the easymode missile aiming and guiding. 

 

Ka50 has RWR while it does not have one in reality, only laser ilumination warning which frankly does not exist in game.

 

Some early helicopters which should have MCLOS missiles only, can guide them like SACLOS despite the fact they don't have any laser designator.

 

But the biggest issue is not helicopters and their simplified easymode implementations, but the tank maps. In current form the tank maps are simulating target practice on proving grounds for helicopters.

Helicopter mouse and autohover operators know exactly that all targets and any AAA threats will be spawned in 1kmx1km square. They don't have to search for targets, they don't have to avoid hidden IR guided missile launchers and manpads - which IRL are biggest threat for helis. 

It is literally engage autohover, climb a bit, mouse look, zoom,2 clicks and the tank is dead.

This is not sim flying, this is turkey shoot in training.

 

Tanks should have laser ilumination detectors and most of modern ones should pop smoke automatically when laser is detected.

 

Even in RB when jets have mouse aim, helis still own them because of this.

 

They just flip upside down 2000g and than fire a missile at same time. I've seen helis flip and than fire mizzle straight vertical lmao. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by DaffanZ
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The issue is helipads being too close and helicopters having zero spool up time. I literally cannot leave my airfield in a jet before some shitheel in a helicopter is killing tanks on our side.

 

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On 25/04/2020 at 10:03, Sputnik_77 said:

Ka50 has RWR while it does not have one in reality, only laser ilumination warning which frankly does not exist in game.

 

 

There were at least a few options from which the KA50 could choose that RWR would have made possible
 

8c3585-1588815582.jpg

And is known it was planned to be capable carry R-73 missiles (not known would it be final or just one of the prototypes) as KA-50 was used as well to design KA-52 that can carry those, and has all those other features.

or : http://www.aviastar.org/helicopters_eng/ka-50.php

Self-defence: L150 Pastel RWR in tailcone, at rear of each wingtip EW pod and under nose; total of 512 chaff/ flare cartridges (in four UV-26 dispensers) in each wingtip pod. L-140 Otklik laser detection system; L-136 Mak IR warning.

 

 

 

For comparison, you can use the BF109K4 here, which didn't have a 20mm cannon, but this was planned and so it was enough to make it into the game:)

 

Edited by Hobel
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35 minutes ago, Hobel said:

 

There were at least a few options from which the KA50 could choose that RWR would have made possible
8c3585-1588815582.jpg

And is known it was planned to be capable carry R-73 missiles (not known would it be final or just one of the prototypes) as KA-50 was used as well to design KA-52 that can carry those, and has all those other features.

or : http://www.aviastar.org/helicopters_eng/ka-50.php

Self-defence: L150 Pastel RWR in tailcone, at rear of each wingtip EW pod and under nose; total of 512 chaff/ flare cartridges (in four UV-26 dispensers) in each wingtip pod. L-140 Otklik laser detection system; L-136 Mak IR warning.

 

 

 

For comparison, you can use the BF109K4 here, which didn't have a 20mm cannon, but this was planned and so it was enough to make it into the game:)

 

what are you quoting me from

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Lennox is just trying to defend his only way of getting kills. Imagine having KA-52 as your squadron tag, its so xxxx disgusting. Every time i see him in game i flame him in chat, tell all my teammates to leave so he doesnt get kills and J out and back to garage immediately.

The KA-52 can literally fly straight up on some maps and shoot tanks the second they spawn from further away than they can realistically fire their guns. Its so xxxx insane that he tries even defending this behaviour at all.

 @IKG51_Lennox Please uninstall your game.

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7 hours ago, Rasmusthenoob said:

Lennox is just trying to defend his only way of getting kills.

In fairness, he says he gets lots of kills (even Ka-50/52s) in ADATS too.  I don’t usually check other peoples’ stats, but I’m sure he’s not making it up, because someone would have pointed out it wasn’t true by now if he really was making that up.

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4 hours ago, Kernow1346 said:

In fairness, he says he gets lots of kills (even Ka-50/52s) in ADATS too.  I don’t usually check other peoples’ stats, but I’m sure he’s not making it up, because someone would have pointed out it wasn’t true by now if he really was making that up.

 

image.thumb.png.6378d09229f1a2d25cd84ff5

 

Those are literally my Sim Stats for the ADATS ... I'm sorry if people are too bad using the best AA out there ... It's not like I literally played NATO a couple of games yesterday and blasted every single Helo out of the sky ... People are just stooooopid

11 hours ago, Rasmusthenoob said:

Lennox is just trying to defend his only way of getting kills. Imagine having KA-52 as your squadron tag, its so xxxx disgusting. Every time i see him in game i flame him in chat, tell all my teammates to leave so he doesnt get kills and J out and back to garage immediately.

The KA-52 can literally fly straight up on some maps and shoot tanks the second they spawn from further away than they can realistically fire their guns. Its so xxxx insane that he tries even defending this behaviour at all.

 @IKG51_Lennox Please uninstall your game.

 

Awww such a cute Paragraph, the fact that it tilts you so hard is literally the reason why I made the Ka-52 Squadron ... To tilt people for eternity and apparently it works great :D

Nah, my only way of getting kills is actually not true ... I've played a couple of times in the T-80U (well I used to, because of the amazing changes of the Sim System with SP I don't have to anymore) and you can feel free to check out my Stats there as well :-*

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On 16/05/2020 at 18:14, Kernow1346 said:

In fairness, he says he gets lots of kills (even Ka-50/52s) in ADATS too.  I don’t usually check other peoples’ stats, but I’m sure he’s not making it up, because someone would have pointed out it wasn’t true by now if he really was making that up.

Because it's not a standout.

 

691 for 433 and we have no idea the timeline. Once upon a time ADATS had no hullbreak and the missiles were a lot better  and yet, even against people who never play SB air before (Rushing with helos/people in jets first time) he doesn't have 2.0kd. Yet in Helicopters it's over 10000000. 

Edited by DaffanZ
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40 minutes ago, DaffanZ said:

Because it's not a standout.

 

691 for 433 and we have no idea the timeline. Once upon a time ADATS had no hullbreak and the missiles were a lot better  and yet, even against people who never play SB air before (Rushing with helos/people in jets first time) he doesn't have 2.0kd. Yet in Helicopters it's over 10000000. 


I knew some big brain timer would say you can't compare it ... Well, I have some Statistics playing some Vehicle that was added in 1.97 alongside the Ka-52.

 

Now to my knowledge the Longbow Apache was added in 1.97, but I'm not sure /s :^)

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.97ca727617eb2e96e77481fb

 

As you can see this is my Lineup currently, with 1.97 I've played NATO only as the Combination of ADATS + AH-64D or ADATS + F-4E ...

 

Now if you compare my AH-64D Sim Stats

 

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.0e20ffe3876d4bfa3ffcf000

 

You can CLEARLY see that I'm winning the Majority of the battles with a whooping 82% WR ...

 

How is that possible ?

 

A.) Did I win in 80 out of 97 Battles and not encounter a single Ka-50/52 ? 

B.) By sheer luck and all of my enemies disconnected when the battle started

C.) I know how to play the ADATS ? 

 

I said it once and I'll say it again ... The Majority of NATO players are simply garbage, period, the only reason they won High Tier Sim until Patch 1.97 was because of superior vehicles, that's about it.

 

All of you that complain, hurr durr, NATO so bad lately are just simply xxxx garbage, period, good players still win their battles playing NATO while the barely mediocre player finally sees how "good" they are.

 

Once again you failed so hard, I would say gg wp again but I don't wanna beat you again :o)

Edited by IKG51_Lennox
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