*dinnerbell-x3150

Do you guys think t-34-57 are over powered?

today i just get killed by a t3457 in a unbelievable angle, I was in a high ground, only showing my up armor, in a great angle like i show in the picture below 

my own 75MM gun can't even do anything in this angle , but the t3457 57mm gun can just destiny my up armor ,like its nothing

normally smaller caliber have less effects on angle armor, and t3457 already have a great pan for Vertical armor in this tier,

with this ridiculously over power pan against angle armor,

t3457 can just kill anything he sees even in 5.0

 

thudner1.jpg

thunder2.jpg

Edited by *dinnerbell-x3150
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The T-34-57 can penetrate more armour than a standard T-34, but the projectile is smaller and carries a smaller explosive charge, therefore when penetrating causes less damage to the target, but it might still be enough to kill you with one shot. On the downside for that vehicle, it only has 45mm of sloping hull armor (horizontally that is 90mm of armor) and the turret of the standard T-34-57 only has 45 mm of armor, so it is quite vulnerable.

When using the Jagdpanzer IV, I always try to stay as far away as possible from enemy tanks. It can kill from a huge distance and then it is virtually invulnerable against just about everything in front of it at its BR and below (excluding a few exceptions)

 

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APHEBC modifier.

This round (which is almost only used by Russia in game) has a hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiighly overperforming slope modifier.

 

For example:

A long 88 Pzgr 39 meets 300mm armor resistance on a Tiger II UFP:

A BR 412 B from the IS-2 meets only 230mm.

 

Every APHEBC is highly overperforming, that's why they can penetrate you even with very well sloped armor.

A T-34-85 can pen a Jumbo UFP at close range, a Tiger can't

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The T-34-57 & the 1943 variant have a great gun but a 3.7 hull and turret. They are not OP in the slightest at BR 4.0 and 4.3 respectively (AB). I have a significantly higher K/D ratio with the T-34-STZ and T-34E because, while the 57mm gun will penetrate more often, it doesn't have the same OHK capability as the 76.2mm gun.

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Well I bought it sometime last year to help with grinding through the USSR tree (haven't played it since), and yeah, it's probably one of the best tanks I've ever played. I'm not sure that I'd change it though, at least as long as other, more OP vehicles are still allowed to exist and most seem fine with them... If one sligtly-OP premium gets nerfed/rebalanced, so should all the others, and frankly I don't see that happening.

 

I think it also greatly adds to the T-34-57's winrate that it's being good at a low BR, so if a skilled player drives it up against newbies... well yeah, that's going to be ugly... It's not really the tank's fauilt though, more like the situation it can sometimes get into. For example M18 and Jumbo do get that too, MM can put them into matches where they just completely dominate, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're broken (stat-wise).

 

Some changes to MM (like reduce BR spread to 0.7 from 1.0), some further BR changes to certain vehicles, removal of RB nation locks and stuff like that would probably help with the balance quite a lot more than nerfing the T-34-57 or any other tank.

Edited by Turenkarn
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The 57mm gun is a little op it should not be able to pen what the pz4f2 can not pen. But under some circumstances it can. OPs screenshot show that clear enough

 

As far as the vehicle in full is concerned, it's not highly OP but mmm maybe a little. Don't think moving it would be good or bad. 4.7 would defo be to high. Plenty of other t-34s are just as if not more OP (basically all below 5.0)

 

 

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7 hours ago, SneakySausage said:

The 57mm gun is a little op it should not be able to pen what the pz4f2 can not pen.

 

The 57mm cannon was found to be a superior anti-tank weapon to the 76.2mm, but the 76.2mm was a better general purpose cannon (bigger HE rounds for taking out AT guns and infantry); historically, it has better penetration characteristics than the long 75mm on the later Panzer IVs. In the real world, a penetrating round was pretty much game over for the tank concerned and the amount of filler only affected the survival rate of the crew. The Soviets ditched the 57mm for production (6 T-34-57s made? Can't remember) because of the lack of a decent HE round - the majority of their targets being infantry and fixed positions. In game, it should and does outperform the German 75mm APHE round in terms of penetration.

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Way OP IMO

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On 24/03/2020 at 10:09, Catskinner said:

 

The 57mm cannon was found to be a superior anti-tank weapon to the 76.2mm, but the 76.2mm was a better general purpose cannon (bigger HE rounds for taking out AT guns and infantry); historically, it has better penetration characteristics than the long 75mm on the later Panzer IVs. In the real world, a penetrating round was pretty much game over for the tank concerned and the amount of filler only affected the survival rate of the crew. The Soviets ditched the 57mm for production (6 T-34-57s made? Can't remember) because of the lack of a decent HE round - the majority of their targets being infantry and fixed positions. In game, it should and does outperform the German 75mm APHE round in terms of penetration.

i was thinking of the american 57mm tbh.

Still i do question its penetration. 

 

Its still a very potent tank and probably a little OP, but meh most t-34s are

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3 hours ago, SneakySausage said:

Still i do question its penetration.

 

For everything else there's Google & Wikipedia :)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/57_mm_anti-tank_gun_M1943_(ZiS-2)

 

It's interesting that the early iteration of the 57mm AT gun was ditched because it just blew straight through the early panzers. I think that's reasonable penetration :)

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I think the BR drop from 4.7 to 4.3 became neccessary due to the likes of the Tigers and IS tanks dropping in BR. So I'd leave it were it is. Good compitition for the heavies around this BR.

 

They should do the same for the Firefly.

 

Cheers

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6 hours ago, Catskinner said:

 

For everything else there's Google & Wikipedia :)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/57_mm_anti-tank_gun_M1943_(ZiS-2)

 

It's interesting that the early iteration of the 57mm AT gun was ditched because it just blew straight through the early panzers. I think that's reasonable penetration :)

 

Mm maybe I was not thinking about the us 57mm.

The wiki contradicts the in game pen.

In game wiki says at 90° 2000 meters 98mm pen whilst the link says 44mm. Same goes for all ranges about 30-40mm to much. Hence why iv been considering it OP (likely).

 

6 hours ago, *Maj_Fox said:

I think the BR drop from 4.7 to 4.3 became neccessary due to the likes of the Tigers and IS tanks dropping in BR. So I'd leave it were it is. Good compitition for the heavies around this BR.

 

They should do the same for the Firefly.

 

Cheers

I dont want fireflys at 4.3. Terriable idea.

Maybe the avenger at a pinch but not the fireflys

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I think they’re pretty balanced. The Cromwell with the 6-Pdr is 3.7 and the T-34-57 is 4.3. The 57 has a better gun and much more reliable armour.

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Since they changed the formula of how shells and armor slopes work, in many cases armor has been essentially nerfed against a number of shells which are very strong against angling and sloped armor.



It is not the tank that is very strong, it is more of a case that armor has become often pointless and a matter of lucky bounces. 

Edited by ioansam
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It's an extremely good tank, perhaps the best of its peers at that BR, but I don't think that it's OP.  If anything APHEBC rounds are over-performing against slopes and should be looked at in general.   I save my tanks that rely upon armor until later in the match once most of the T-34-57s have died off.

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As I mentioned in another thread recently, it feels like the 57mm APHE round has been stealth-buffed and gets a lot more OHKs than previously; so many more that it is pretty OP compared to the German long 75s, which have more energy and more filler in the case of a penetrating hit.

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6 hours ago, Thodin said:

ASU-57 and T-34-57 are insanely lethal, considering its tiny calibre. High pen, strangle behavior @angles and almost always OHK. Even KV-1 and Tigers get wtf-BBQed. 

 

I don't have an issue with the high pen - the 57mm is a superior AT gun to the 76.2mm in the real world where people bailed after being penned - but the post-pen effects in game are a little over-dramatic.

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Mohahahaha

 

I was playing a lot with my mates at 4.0-5.0 Germany and i think it was a year ago or something.. T34-57s everywhere. I thought i was safe in my KV at 4.7 but no, i thought that i was safe in my flak truck (usually it takes some rounds to kill it because of space) but no, onetapped. Oh yeah, T34-57 should have the earliest armour (45 mm i think) and there i was.. bouncing on it with 88s or 75 mm cannons that were designed to kill them.. Sure they can angle and stuff like that but when i shoot a T34 with my flak truck from the front 50 meters away and it bounces.. Well lets just say that i have been Gajined alot against it.

 

After some time i decided, if you cant beat them join them and wow.. if i want easy kills and one taps i bring the T34-57. In my experience it bounces shots it shouldn't bounce and one tap stuff it shouldn't one tap. OP? I am not even going to spell it out. I easily get 3-10 kills each game in it and i fear being down tiered when i am playing different tanks at 5.0-5.3 because of it.

 

One thing that baffles me is this;

On 22/03/2020 at 15:03, *a-prost15 said:

but the projectile is smaller and carries a smaller explosive charge, therefore when penetrating causes less damage to the target

That is what i thought as well but i am currently one tapping more targets in my T34-57 then my T34-85 or Panther.. I would assume that a gun like this would behave more similar to the PZ 3s with their long 50 mm guns = Able to pen almost everything except extreme slopes but not that much damage within.. Whereas the 57 mm seems to have a death star-beam that just makes things go boom.

 

Once again, OP? I am not going to say anything about that but i am SOOOOO surprised that this tank isn't getting more attention then it currently gets. From my experience it dominates everything between 3.3-5.3.

 

Good tank, fun tank, hate to go up against it, love playing it.. Yeah

Edited by gemanuel1
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Some numbers from my other post:

 

I've been playing a lot of German 4.7 recently and have played the T-34-57 a lot in the past. It seems to me that the BR-271 gets many, many more OHKs than the PzGr39 when it really shouldn't as it has less energy and less explosive filler.

 

BR-271 (57mm ZiS-4): 21.56g TNT equivalent, 3.14kg overall mass, 990 m/s muzzle velocity, so ~1530KJ

PzGr39 (75mm PaK39/L48): 28.95 TNT equivalent, 6.8kg overall mass, 750 m/s muzzle velocity, so ~1912KJ with 34% more explosive filler

 

The numbers just don't stack up.

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I noticed the deadliness of the 57mm round during the HEAT event. I was playing 4.0 to 5.7 lineups and the soviet 57mm guns (in form of ASU, T34) were everywhere and none of my tanks seemed to be able to tank that round. One hit and you were gone. Even the dreaded KV-1B got permanently one-taped and angled tigers as well.  Especially the tiny ASU in tank RB does rediculous damage. Something was changed with its post pen damage and its slope modifiers. That shell behaves iffy.

Edited by Thodin
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