WayOfTheWolk

Project 1047 Battlecruiser Discussion

I am opening a discussion thread on the history and characteristics of the Dutch Project 1047 battlecruiser project. The Project 1047 was a proposed battlecruiser designed jointly by The Netherlands and Germany between mid-1939 and early 1940. 

 

Project 1047 Battlecruiser

Artist's Rendition of the completed ship

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Introduction:

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For half a century the Royal Dutch Navy had been attempting to create its own fully developed blue navy capable of defending its colonial possessions in the Dutch East Indies. The previous venture had failed with the onset of the First World War and the then proposed Project 753 battleship had been shelved in favor of light cruisers post-war. An indecisive parliament and pacifistic public meant that the Netherlands could not adequately guarantee the hold of its colonies against the will of the almighty Japanese forces. It would first bear witness to the power of the IJN during the Russo-Japanese conflict in which Dutch observers reported the tactical and technological superiority of Admiral Togo's fleet. With re-armament commencing in Europe Dutch military officials were keen on taking the lead in naval affairs designing an all new class suited to the requirements of overseas actions. Inspired by the German Gneisenau and French Dunkerque they embarked to create their own comparable capital ship. This is the story of the Project 1047 battlecruiser and its worthy status in War Thunder.

 

Preliminary Studies:

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In 1938 a team of Dutch naval officers formed a committee tasked with investigating the possibilities of strengthening Dutch naval might in the pacific. Defense minister van Dijk gave specific instructions on February 18, 1939 with the creation of a heavy naval unit consisting of up to three battlecruisers domestically built. The Eendracht light cruiser class was not included in this program and funding was accounted independently while staff requirements were made on the 17th for the battlecruisers.  These requirements were re-written again on the 21st by the naval chief and passed to the naval construction department on the 22nd. The construction department of the navy finished its first preliminary design by July 11th, 1939 based on the naval staff requirements under the designation “Project 323.”

The only problem with the Project 323 was that the Netherlands neither had the technical knowledge nor the industrial capacity to produce such a warship. They were not up to date on modern armor layouts and it is reported some of the engineers looked at the “Jane’s Fighting ship” book series for reference. To mitigate these deficiencies, it was hoped that France would release drawings of its Dunkerque class to the Dutch for guidance, but this offer was denied. The Dutch then turned to the Germans with the first meeting occurring in Berlin April 25, 1939. It was discussed that as part of the bi-national agreement the Dutch would purchase only German equipment and pay full compensation to Germany if the ships were rejected. The Germans went as far to guarantee that war building restrictions would not apply to the Dutch and the ships would be completed on-schedule assuming there was no allied interference.

By the 21st of August the Germans released a design study to the Royal Netherlands Navy detailing various battlecruiser layouts based on their own vessels. By later that same month the navy had formulated its plans for the 1047’s propulsion system which consisted of eight boiler rooms, four sets of geared turbines and additional machinery. The standards were further refined in October and a consortium by the RNN, Krupp Germaniawerft and Deschimag produced preliminary designs. It was intended to build the power plant in the Netherlands however the Germans had ended up designing a much more compact design. On the other hand the Dutch were concerned that the compact design would cause too frequent machinery failures and the cramped conditions would limit crew efficiency. By April 1940 the two parties had standardized on a final propulsion design.

Regarding armament it was first discussed between Krupp and RNN in a meeting on July 31, 1939 at Essen. It was proposed that the Dutch would follow the footsteps of the Scharnhorst with her triple sets of 28 cm guns. However the main guns for the 1047 would be custom designed separate of the German SK C/34 design. Tests showed a muzzle velocity of 900 m/s with a maximum range of 42,500 meters with an approximate fire rate of 2.5 rounds per minute. The 28 cm guns were to be placed in three triple mounts with 12 additional 12 cm secondaries made by Bofors. AA armament was to consist of 16 Bofors 40mm auto-cannons in dual turrets and at least 8 20mm Oerlkon cannons in single mounts. The fire-control systems were to be provided by the indigenous Hazemeyer company discussed in a meeting November 21, 1939.

 

Project 323:

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The Naval Construction Department started working on detailed blueprints by July 1939 with German consulting however it was split into two separate designs; the Project 1047 by Nevesbu and the Project 323 by I.V.S. Major difference included the fact that the 1047 used a Yarrow propulsion plant while the 323 used the Deschimag/Germaniawerft design. The 323 had a modified structure based on the native De Ruyter class and slightly differed in AA armaments. Instead of 20 mm Oerlikons the 1047 was planned to house 16 13.2 mm machine guns in double mounts were substituted instead. I.v.S submitted its general specifications for the Project 323 in November 1939 and began to work on hull design from which its last design was submitted in March 1940. 

 

The Complete 1047 Design:

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Test trials using two scale model hulls of the 1047 were conducted in February of 1940 at Wageningen. It was found that the 1047 model with the bulbous bow (Model No. 367A) was preferable to the normal one (Model No. 367). While it is not known if a formal decision was made regarding this choice it is reflected in further blueprints of the design with the latter hull. Issues with the weight of the propulsion machinery were still being sorted out as to provide an adequate balance between protection of the magazine and optimal mobility. German admiralty suggested reducing the 27000-ton requirement to just 16000 tons as an armored cruiser. This however would’ve meant reducing the overall protection of the ship and this was quickly ruled out by the Dutch. Between November 1939 and February 1920 technicians from Nevesbu worked out new calculations and adjusted the design accordingly releasing the first standard design on February 10th.

The debate with the first standard design still raised some serious concerns. There was still little protection for the ammunition stowage and both international teams suggested moving the main armored belt to the exterior which until then was located internally. Given available information there is no evidence however to support the fact that they ever changed this feature though. A trip to Italy in March revealed much of their concerns were very valid. Italian engineers had suggested several fixes including removing the longitudinal bulkheads between the engines and heightening the double bottom although it later proved impossible to do so. 

 

The Project Ends: Invasion & Despair

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A draft for a re-design was started on April 8th, 1940 based on the new Italian advice with a completed drawing for the midship section. This also included an internal armor belt supporting the idea that the Dutch never changed their minds on the subject. When the Germans invaded the Netherlands in May all work on the project was halted and all construction materials delegated for the ships were re-diverted to German war efforts. What was supposed to be the proposed Project 1047 battlecruiser ended up as another unrealized fantasy. That's not to say it was all done it vain, the Dutch had clearly made the full effort to complete the project and the Germans were in a serious position to continue working on the ship throughout the war. After World War 2 the project was not resumed and the Royal Netherlands Navy opted to complete its Eendracht class of light cruisers which served well into the 1960s. 

 

Project 1047 Blueprints & Concepts:

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Project 1047 General Concept

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General Arrangement Plan #1

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General Arrangement Plan #2 

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General Armament Plan 

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General Armor Layout 

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General Armour Hull Layout

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Project 1047 Specifications (February 1940):

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Specifications:

Displacement: 28315.5 tonnes

Length: 237.10 m

Beam: 30.44 m

Draught: 7.80 m

Installed Power: 8 x Werkspoor boilers (180000 shp)

Propulsion: 4 x shafts, 4 x Parsons Geared Turbines

Speed: 34 knots (estimated)

Crew: 1600 men (estimated)

 

Armor:

Belt: 225 mm at 75 degrees

Upper Belt: 40 mm at 75 degrees

Side Belt Forward: 30mm to 15 mm

Side Belt Aft: 30 mm upper, 60 mm lower

Longitudinal Anti-torpedo bulkheads: 40 mm

Main Deck: 75 + 25 mm

Lower Deck: 30 mm with 30 mm inclination

Boiler Uptakes: 225 mm gratings main deck, 65 mm gratings lower deck

Lower deck aft: 125-150 mm 

Traverse Bulkheads: 30 + 15mm forward, 200 mm to 40 mm rear 

28 cm Barbette: 250-200 mm tapering to 40 mm

12 cm Barbette: 75 mm tapering to 60 mm

Turrets: 350-200 mm 

Conning tower: 150 mm

 

Armament:

9 x Krupp 28 cm/50 guns (3 x 3)

12 x Bofors 12cm/53 guns (6 x 2) 

16 x Bofors 40 mm auto-cannons (8 x 2)

8 x Oerlikon 20 mm auto-cannons (8 x 1)

 

Project 323 Blueprints & Concepts:

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Project 323 Visualized Concept

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Project 323 Bow Section

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Project 323 Midships Section

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Project 323 Rear Section

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Project 323 Specifications (March 1940):

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Specifications:

Displacement: 32390 tonnes

Length: 238.40 m

Beam: 29.00 m

Draught: 8.40 m

Installed Power: 8 x Deschimag boilers (180000 shp)

Propulsion: 4 x shafts, 4 x Germaniawerft Steam Turbines

Speed: 34 knots (estimated)

Crew: 1600 men (estimated)

 

Armor:

Belt: 250 mm tapering to 60mm forward/aft

Main deck: 150 mm

Longitudinal bulkheads: 40 mm

Splinter deck: 40 mm

Citadel main traverse bulkheads: 225 mm forward/aft

Citadel secondary traverse bulkheads: 40 mm below armored deck

28 cm Barbette: 250 mm above armored deck, 80 mm between armored and splinter decks 

12 cm Barbette: 200 mm

Turrets: 350-200 mm 

Conning tower: 150 mm

 

Armament:

9 x Krupp 28 cm/50 guns (3 x 3)

12 x Bofors 12cm/53 mm guns (6 x 2) 

16 x Bofors 40 mm auto-cannons (8 x 2)

16 x Hotchkiss 13.2 mm machine guns (8 x 2)

 

Sources:

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  • http://www.netherlandsnavy.nl/Special_battlecruiser.htm
  • Teitler, Prof. Dr. G (1984). De strijd om de slagkruisers, 1938–1940
  • Breyer, Siegfried (1973). Battleships and Battle Cruisers, 1905–1970
  • Noot, Lt. Jurrien S. (1980). "Battlecruiser: Design studies for the Royal Netherlands Navy 1939–40". Warship International.

 

Edited by Private_Wolk
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Absolutely wonderfull post!

I hope that the Moderation Team will allow blueprint vessels like this one to be submitted on the suggestions area, so that you could upload this post there to :good:

 

Just sad that work on these two beauties never begun :(

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5 hours ago, super_cacti said:

Absolutely wonderfull post!

I hope that the Moderation Team will allow blueprint vessels like this one to be submitted on the suggestions area, so that you could upload this post there to :good:

 

Just sad that work on these two beauties never begun :(

Evidence suggest that the first ship was to have been laid down in June of 1940. It's unfortunate this never happened. 

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Fully hoping that we will stick to ships that are at least laid down. Don't get me wrong, reading up on all the designs and what-ifs is fascinating for me. But I'd very much rather not see them in game. There already is a game if I want to play la-la-land ships, and there is a reason why I'm playing this one instead of that one.

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Gaijin said that they are willing to include ships which had plans for them finished so the Pr. 1047 would qualify IMO. And it seems as quite good border-line it isn´t fantasy because before you finish the designs you already have armament and other basic stats figured out so Gaijin wont need to guesstimate the ingame stats. 

And I can get behind these what-if ships because they might have been reality if it wasn´t for some unfortunate events not like some ships from WoWs

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On 14/03/2020 at 10:36, super_cacti said:

Absolutely wonderfull post!

I hope that the Moderation Team will allow blueprint vessels like this one to be submitted on the suggestions area, so that you could upload this post there to :good:

 

Just sad that work on these two beauties never begun :(

They've already said that never complete ships can be added (soviet coast guard would have 0 capital ships if they didn't).
If a ship was at a finalised stage and ready to be built, it should be fair game.
Only real issue is that certain ships, while finalised, have pure fantasy capabilities (especially the soviet battlecruisers/battleships) so that the designers wouldn't be purged.

 

 

Still, it would be interesting to see the 1047

 

 

Spoiler

I'm all for these NB designs, however, ALL nations need to get them for the sake of fairness and parity

 

Edited by Shrike142
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