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Lower/mid tier match making post 1.95 patch


2 hours ago, Deranger79 said:

Don't worry, Flak abandons games he can't win. Poor soul, even when OP Allies 6.7 :facepalm:

I dont, maybe forget hiw play objectives or how can use a spaa for counter light tanks :dntknw:

:lol2:

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On 10/02/2020 at 12:50, warrior412 said:

As for the 76mm Jumbo, again, this is a joke of an outrage. The M4A3E2's armor is already countered by 5.3 (Sturer Emil, Nashorn, SU-152, etc.) and the gun stems back from 3.7. There isn't anything special about the pairing, so what makes the M4A3E2 (76) so special? Nothing. People already agreed 6.0 was ridiculous for it when it was uptiered there--at the very least it could go to 5.7.

 

It's ridiculous for you and some other US fanboy which are disconnected from reality. The 76 Jumbo has no place below 5.7 and it's an incredibly powerful vehicle, try again.

 

On 10/02/2020 at 05:03, warrior412 said:

If the Panzer IVs were Allied tanks, people like you would have demanded their uptiering years ago.

Allies have plenty of similar examples and no action was taken in years. Although increasing a PzIV's BR above 4.3 would be troublesome increasing the BR of things like M4A1 (76), T20, M18 and  so on really isn't that much of an issue, this just proves how borderline OP they were before the uptier. 

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2 hours ago, aBrumz_suFFers said:

It's ridiculous for you and some other US fanboy which are disconnected from reality. The 76 Jumbo has no place below 5.7 and it's an incredibly powerful vehicle, try again.

 

Um, no, pointing out the Jumbo 76 is overtiered and outclassed in the 6.7/7.0 matches it’s put into is just acknowledging reality. By those BRs, the armor is meaningless and the gun is a peashooter. 5.7 or even 5.3’d be fine.

 

I lol’d at the “US fanboy” bit too. I play Germany more than any other nation, but since I want the Americans to be treated justly that makes me a “US fanboy.” Suuuuurrrre:016:

 

2 hours ago, aBrumz_suFFers said:

Allies have plenty of similar examples and no action was taken in years.

 

Yeah...no. When you find some that have sustained WRs of 60+% for four years, get back to me.

 

2 hours ago, aBrumz_suFFers said:

Although increasing a PzIV's BR above 4.3 would be troublesome increasing the BR of things like M4A1 (76), T20, M18 and  so on really isn't that much of an issue, this just proves how borderline OP they were before the uptier. 

 

There you go again...

 

When an Allied tank is uptiered, it’s no big deal.

 

If a German vehicle is proposed to be uptiered, it’s troublesome.

 

The good ole double standard. I’ll bet the American black hole of 4.X isn’t “troublesome” to you, right?

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2 hours ago, aBrumz_suFFers said:

It's ridiculous for you and some other US fanboy which are disconnected from reality. The 76 Jumbo has no place below 5.7 and it's an incredibly powerful vehicle, try again.

Disconnected? nah. They just want continue abusing at any cost. Really this tank is overpowered in 6.0 battles in 5.3 was ridiculous op.

Demand 5.3 for the beast is because you have a bestial l2p problems or you are trolling.

6.7 battle...

20190328155306_1.jpg

6.3 and 6.0

yt0j0Y7.jpg

OFCMsRk.jpg

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Flak_Dancer said:

Disconnected? nah. They just want continue abusing at any cost. Really this tank is overpowered in 6.0 battles in 5.3 was ridiculous op.

Demand 5.3 for the beast is because you have a bestial l2p problems or you are trolling.

6.7 battle...

 

You say that...but you have no answers for how the BR is justified when the tank’s actual performance is considered.

 

An A13 could probably rough up the teams you ran into too—it doesn’t mean it should be uptiered to oblivion.

Edited by warrior412
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anything but a win is unacceptabe for US tanks.

I admire your breath to work against the windmill called warrior412. But believe me, it feels relieving to let go from these discussion. There is a point where it becomes idiotic and hopeless to continue all that.

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14 minutes ago, Rainbowprincess said:

anything but a win is unacceptabe for US tanks.

 

Ah yes, pointing out the mediocrity of a tank’s capabilities and this is the same—absolutely:facepalm:

 

The reality, of course, is we’ve still yet to hear why the Jumbo 76 is so special and deserving of 6.0.

 

It’s sad to see you guys resorting to so much bad faith just to destroy talk over how the US is getting shafted—but I suppose you’re just pursuing your interests. 

 

14 minutes ago, Rainbowprincess said:

I admire your breath to work against the windmill called warrior412. But believe me, it feels relieving to let go from these discussion. There is a point where it becomes idiotic and hopeless to continue all that.

 

Being fair and objective doesn’t make me a windmill, it just makes me am honest guy people can trust.

 

Sadly it seems I’m one of the few people around here who can be trusted to be so impartial these days—you guys seem to be doing all you can to rig things.

Edited by warrior412
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1 hour ago, Flak_Dancer said:

Disconnected? nah. They just want continue abusing at any cost. Really this tank is overpowered in 6.0 battles in 5.3 was ridiculous op.

Overpowered? Seriously? Your last 22 matches ended with 12 losses and barely a 2.1 exchange ratio and you are calling it overpowered because you cherry picked a bunch of screen shots

 

There are tanks down to 5.3 that can point and click Jumbos, 5.7 Germany is full of them and at 6.0 and above the Jumbo is a glorified medium tank.

 

The Jumbo might as well go back to 5.7 to make up for the HVAP nerf and the US losing all the firepower and armor at 5.3 and 5.7 and with the Panther A at 5.7 and the Tiger E having an APCR shell that is better than the Jumbo, there is no excuse for not knowing how to fight it or to allow it to "club". 

 

What is next? Jumbo to 6.3 because it is clearly better than the Tiger II(P) because Thunder Skill said it has good win rates still? 

1 hour ago, Flak_Dancer said:

6.7 battle...

 

1.87, that is a pretty old screen shot. 

 

1 hour ago, Flak_Dancer said:

6.3 and 6.0

 

The only thing this screen shots tell is how awful the enemy team was and if you really had these consistently, you'd have a much higher kill ratio with the Jumbo. From the looks of it you could have swapped with a M4A1 or M4A3 and still achieved the same results. 

 

3 hours ago, aBrumz_suFFers said:

Although increasing a PzIV's BR above 4.3 would be troublesome increasing the BR of things like M4A1 (76), T20, M18 and  so on really isn't that much of an issue, this just proves how borderline OP they were before the uptier. 

Stop strawmanning, no one said the Panzer IVs would be pushed above 4.3. The G and the H could very well stay at 4.3 and the F2 and J could as well stay at 4.0 or the J goes to 3.7 and the F2 to 4.0.


They weren't overpowered, specially the M4A1. The M4A3, M4A1 and T20 were good at their Battle Ratings but not OP and now they are pushed where their mobility is average, the armor is worthless and the firepower completely mediocre for 5.7 and US 5.0 is a position where they are never going to see a battle that is bellow 5.7 most of the time, while anything remotely armored or well armed got pushed up. 

 

3 hours ago, aBrumz_suFFers said:

Allies have plenty of similar examples and no action was taken in years.

 

Such as? The last three patches we saw all the tanks from UK and US being moved up and Germany tanks either being moved down or remaining where they were even when they were dominating their BR regions. Now we have an aberration of a patch that destroyed the US 4.7, 5.3 and created an overtiered 5.7 and 6.0 lineup that is feeding tanks that can be one shot killed with point and click guns from the Russians and Germans. It also gave us things like the German M48 being lower than the American one.

 

T32E1 at 7.7 anyone? No one even plays that tank anymore. There is no reason to play the M4A3 anymore.

 

Germany has never received a heavy handed BR increase as the US tank tree did, only BR drops. 

 

And the US only started winning after the De'Marre patch, before it, even the first 75mm Jumbo barely managed to keep a W/L Rate over 50%, when Gaijin royally screwed the ammo penetrations on this game. And if the US winning because Germany gets stacked with Nations that don't have lineups and one spawn wonders, then it isn't a problem of the US tanks, it is a problem that Gaijin created by adding unfinished tank trees on this game and if the Match Maker keeps throwing those matches, then it is a Match Maker issue not a Battle Rating issue. 

 

 

Edited by Slayer3XD
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56 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

Being fair and objective doesn’t make me a windmill, it just makes me am honest guy people can trust.

two things you definitely aren't. Starts with flak_dancers hilarious signature of you saying the panzer iv G is like a M18 and ends with the fact that you say US winrates are adequat and only a thing because germans don't play the objective.

You Sir, is not objective or fair

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3 minutes ago, Slayer3XD said:

Overpowered? Seriously? Your last 22 matches ended with 12 losses and barely a 2.1 exchange ratio and you are calling it overpowered because you cherry picked a bunch of screen shot

With more than 600 battles played and you take the last battles...talking about cherry picking.

 

4 minutes ago, Slayer3XD said:

 

There are tanks down to 5.3 that can point and click Jumbos, 5.7 Germany is full of them and at 6.0 and above the Jumbo is a glorified medium tank.

 

The Jumbo might as well go back to 5.7 to make up for the HVAP nerf and the US losing all the firepower and armor at 5.3 and 5.7 and with the Panther A at 5.7 and the Tiger E having an APCR shell that is better than the Jumbo, there is no excuse for not knowing how to fight it or to allow it to "club". 

 

First complain about HVAP is nerfed but later use APCR from Tiger 1 as valid point... muh double standard is hard.

 

6 minutes ago, Slayer3XD said:

What is next? Jumbo to 6.3 because it is clearly better than the Tiger II(P) because Thunder Skill said it has good win rates still? 

 

I forget now the allies have stupid high win ratios, those are not a valid point anymore. Good old times when they cry about Tiger or Lepard high win ratios :lol2:

8 minutes ago, Slayer3XD said:

1.87, that is a pretty old screen shot.

 

Is well kwow Germany and Italy obtain tons of new 6.7 since 1.87... really find a better excuse.

 

9 minutes ago, Slayer3XD said:

 

The only thing this screen shots tell is how awful the enemy team was

 

Yes of course, every knows when allies have good results is "cuz bad enemies teams" they never have extremly good or undertired tanks.

 

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46 minutes ago, Flak_Dancer said:

With more than 600 battles played and you take the last battles...talking about cherry picking.

 

 

Sure, because all those 600 battles were totally after the 1.95 patch where there were major changes in the Battle Ratings of nearly all American tanks. If it was really clubbing that hard, you wouldn't have lost the majority of those matches. 

 

46 minutes ago, Flak_Dancer said:

First complain about HVAP is nerfed but later use APCR from Tiger 1 as valid point... muh double standard is hard.

Maybe you should hone your interpretation skills a bit. The US HVAP went from 243mm PB to 190mm, it can't penetrate any of the Heavy TDs at 6.3 and all Heavy Tanks at 6.7 are immune to it. The Tiger E needs a full uptier to face those tanks, the 76mm Jumbo doesn't. And surely the Jumbo 76mm is so good it can fight M48s now. And you guys complain about post war power creep. 

 

The Tiger APCR after the US HVAP got nerfed is outright better and if you can't deal with the Jumbo using the APHE of the Tiger you can fall back to APCR. 

 

I guess we can put the Tiger E back at 6.0 then, after all, 220mm PB APCR at 5.7 vs 190 BP HVAP at 6.0. 

 

1 hour ago, Flak_Dancer said:

Is well kwow Germany and Italy obtain tons of new 6.7 since 1.87... really find a better excuse.

 

Yeah because there weren't any changes between 1.87 and 1.95, none at all. Or are you going to keep showing the same screen shot over and over after the game has gone through several changes? Because this isn't the first time you post that screen shot. 

 

50 minutes ago, Flak_Dancer said:

Yes of course, every knows when allies have good results is "cuz bad enemies teams" they never have extremly good or undertired tanks.

 

Like Germans with the Panther A? Or the German M48? Or the M41A1 with HEAT-FS at just 6.3? Or all the late Panzer IV line? 

 

Please tell me how the M4A3 was undertiered at 5.3.

 

German mains got everything they wanted on this patch, all tanks that could give any hint of trouble moved up and plenty of tanks that are paper armored to German guns thrown into the battle rating range of their tanks and even got some stupidly undertiered tanks like the M48 and M41A1 to make company. 

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I agree that Pz4 F2 should be uptiered. M4A3 should not have been moved to 5,7. M18 and T20 yes.

But I find this discussion funny:

Pz4 F2 WR 51,4 K/D 2,03 - Slayer&Warrior: This tank is OP!!! UPTIER!!!

Jumbo (76) WR 69,58 K/D 2,58 - Slayer&Warrior: This tank is screwed!!! DOWNTIER!!!

 

M18 had WR 68,51 yesterday (on graph) and KD 1,6, T20 WR 75,91 and KD 3. And that is AFTER BR raise.

 

Same people that were preaching that doom is coming when TAM and A1A1 moved to 8,7, doom that never materialized.

 

 

16 minutes ago, Slayer3XD said:

Or the German M48?

This one should not happened, or other M48s should have been moved down as well.

Edited by LahvanCz
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5 minutes ago, Slayer3XD said:

 

Sure, because all those 600 battles were totally after the 1.95 patch where there were major changes in the Battle Ratings of nearly all American tanks.

Yes because before 1.95 Jumbo 76 dont face the same exact enemis than now...

9 minutes ago, Slayer3XD said:

 

If it was really clubbing that hard, you wouldn't have lost the majority of those matches.

62% win ratio, i win more tha lose, only fanatic us fanboys see the end of the world after br bump.

10 minutes ago, Slayer3XD said:

 

Maybe you should hone your interpretation skills a bit.

Sorry i dont study english since i leave the army years ago, im a bit rusty.

11 minutes ago, Slayer3XD said:

 

The US HVAP went from 243mm PB to 190mm, it can't penetrate any of the Heavy TDs at 6.3 and all Heavy Tanks at 6.7 are immune to it. The Tiger E needs a full uptier to face those tanks, the 76mm Jumbo doesn't.

 

The Tiger APCR after the US HVAP got nerfed is outright better and if you can't deal with the Jumbo using the APHE of the Tiger you can fall back to APCR. 

 

I guess we can put the Tiger E back at 6.0 then, after all, 220mm PB APCR at 5.7 vs 190 BP HVAP at 6.0. 

 

ALL APCR are nerfed, Tiger APCR pen more, yes but the post pen damage is practically the same.

Jumbo have stabilizer and Tiger dont maybe here you have your 0.3 more.

14 minutes ago, Slayer3XD said:

 

And surely the Jumbo 76mm is so good it can fight M48s now. And you guys complain about post war power creep. 

 

Welcome to germany MM style, maybe you cant talk whit some Tiger 1 players and ask for some tips about facing T29,T34,T95 and so on.

LMAO US fanboys crying about ww2 vs postwar is unbalanced, looks like karma exist :lol2:

 

 

15 minutes ago, Slayer3XD said:

 

Yeah because there weren't any changes between 1.87 and 1.95, none at all. Or are you going to keep showing the same screen shot over and over after the game has gone through several changes? Because this isn't the first time you post that screen shot. 

 

I posted another images with similar results, is just a example of this tank can do, much better tan support my arguments with iamginary syndromes and drunk theories.

 

19 minutes ago, Slayer3XD said:

 

Like Germans with the Panther A? Or the German M48? Or the M41A1 with HEAT-FS at just 6.3? Or all the late Panzer IV line? 

 

I loved us fanboys, M48 pass from trash to ultimate op machine just because germans have one 0-3 under the us one, i tell you a secret US have 2 pattons equipped with HEATFS face German tanks since years. But i dont here you complain aho injust and unfair is face WW2 era tanks in your Pattons.

Again welcome to german MM.

24 minutes ago, Slayer3XD said:

 

Please tell me how the M4A3 was undertiered at 5.3.

 

I dont support the idea of uptier M4A3 or donwtier M48 only for Germany, but im not say no after years of free abusing of allies.

25 minutes ago, Slayer3XD said:

 

German mains got everything they wanted on this patch, all tanks that could give any hint of trouble moved up

Meanwhile the allies obtain in the past stock stabilizers, APDS, a lot of postwar and agile tanks German had "meta" tank like waffentrager, sturer emil or Puma.

29 minutes ago, Slayer3XD said:

 

some stupidly undertiered tanks like the M48 and M41A1 to make company. 

Before that changes, the walker bulldog for US was a mediocre bad tank useless even in 6.0 and now the same tank with a poor HEATFS is op, same for M48.

Really if we can changes tanks in another trees for example the Nashorn in US tree pu the M36 in German only one week we can see topics like "Nashon is overtired and M36 is OP" :lol2:

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25 minutes ago, LahvanCz said:

Pz4 F2 WR 51,4 K/D 2,03 - Slayer&Warrior: This tank is OP!!! UPTIER!!!

That tank was sitting above 60% win rate comfortably for years and dropped last month for no good reason. Even the H at 4.3 boasted a 60% win rate and an kill exchange rate similar to the M4A1 before Operation Frost happened.

 

Which is extra funny in the case of the F2 because it is outside of all 76mm M4, Hellcat and Jumbo range, so the drop can't be blamed on those tanks and there hasn't been a BR shift while Operation Frost happened. The only thing that changed was the playerbase. 

25 minutes ago, LahvanCz said:

Jumbo (76) WR 69,58 K/D 2,58 - Slayer&Warrior: This tank is screwed!!! DOWNTIER!!!

 

Funny thing right? For years this tank was barely over 50% win ratio, but in less than a year it got a BR increase, ammo nerf and faces more tanks that can ignore its armor than before and it still racks up kills and wins.

 

The issue is not the tank.

25 minutes ago, LahvanCz said:

M18 had WR 68,51 yesterday (on graph) and KD 1,6, T20 WR 75,91 and KD 3. And that is AFTER BR raise.

 

As far as I am concerned, TS still showing the data before the patch and it didn't get much to give how the changes are going to affect the win and kill rates. I am however losing far more often and struggling to keep a positive win ratio with both US 5.0 and 6.3.

 

I'd be impressed if the win rates either go up or maintain themselves, I want to see how far the "Germany Suffers!" excuses will blame the tanks their are fighting. 

25 minutes ago, LahvanCz said:

Same people that were preaching that doom is coming when TAM and A1A1 moved to 8,7, doom that never materialized.

 

Because those tanks received APFSDS at 8.3 when no one else had them, or did you forget the damage the A1A1 did when it got the DM23 at 8.3 when everyone else was stuck with slower tanks and garbage tier APDS.

 

25 minutes ago, LahvanCz said:

This one should not happened, or other M48s should have been moved down as well.

 

Yet it happened, here we have a M48 that gets some advantages against its American counterpart receiving a lower BR because the players using it were just that bad on it. 

 

17 minutes ago, Flak_Dancer said:

I dont support the idea of uptier M4A3 or donwtier M48 only for Germany, but im not say no after years of free abusing of allies.

In other words, you are fine with the uptiering and downtiering because "Germany suffers", which is still supporting this stupid BR change.

 

29 minutes ago, Flak_Dancer said:

I loved us fanboys, M48 pass from trash to ultimate op machine just because germans have one 0-3 under the us one, i tell you a secret US have 2 pattons equipped with HEATFS face German tanks since years. But i dont here you complain aho injust and unfair is face WW2 era tanks in your Pattons.

Again welcome to german MM.

 

Zero consistency from you. As if Germany didn't also have its own HEAT-FS slingers.

 

Funny you say that, because the M48 was being called OP by the German mains, it was considered one of the best Medium Tanks the US had by German mains and now that they got one, at 7.3 and now 7.0 then the post complaining how awful the tank is, how awful the stock grind is and how average all its features are started showing up in the forums.

 

As far as I have seen, the people calling the M48 trash are the Germans, not the Americans. US players were complaining about it being bad at 7.7 after Gaijin introduced other 7.7 tanks that were outright better at the same BR. But sure, justify more about the German M48 being deserving of being placed lower than its counterparts. I guess Gaijin isn't handholding the German playerbase enough. 

 

And guess what? All those Pattons are still very vulnerable to German guns and Germany still has both US Pattons. 

 

German MM isn't really different from US MM. 

5 minutes ago, Flak_Dancer said:

Yes because before 1.95 Jumbo 76 dont face the same exact enemis than now...

 

German M48, M41, newer French and Italian HEAT-FS slingers, all the Chinese tanks. 

 

6 minutes ago, Flak_Dancer said:

62% win ratio, i win more tha lose, only fanatic us fanboys see the end of the world after br bump.

 

Lets see if your legacy stats keep that way, from the last session, it doesn't look so.

 

7 minutes ago, Flak_Dancer said:

ALL APCR are nerfed, Tiger APCR pen more, yes but the post pen damage is practically the same.

Jumbo have stabilizer and Tiger dont maybe here you have your 0.3 more.

 

And Tiger can reverse twice as fast, has a hull that doesn't get overmatched by nearly everything at that BR, APHE shell with better slope penetration and HE filler and neutral steering.

 

Anything that can easily punch through a Tiger E, can also destroy a Jumbo on 5.7.

 

9 minutes ago, Flak_Dancer said:

Welcome to germany MM style, maybe you cant talk whit some Tiger 1 players and ask for some tips about facing T29,T34,T95 and so on.

LMAO US fanboys crying about ww2 vs postwar is unbalanced, looks like karma exist

 

You mean the same MM that keeps teaming Germany, Russia and everyone else since the French tank tree got added. 

 

Funny thing though, the T29, T34 and T95 are WWII designs, and it isn't like Germany didn't have post war vehicles sitting at 6.7 either. 

 

19 minutes ago, Flak_Dancer said:

Meanwhile the allies obtain in the past stock stabilizers, APDS, a lot of postwar and agile tanks German had "meta" tank like waffentrager, sturer emil or Puma.

 

Pretty rich seeing complaints about APDS and stabilizers when all thanks using those two have been moved up, specially the British being nearly all 7.7.

APDS: Bad when the Leopards have to use it, godlike when the British use it.

Germany also fits the APHE meta of the lower tiers better than everyone else.

 

21 minutes ago, Flak_Dancer said:

Before that changes, the walker bulldog for US was a mediocre bad tank useless even in 6.0 and now the same tank with a poor HEATFS is op, same for M48.

Really if we can changes tanks in another trees for example the Nashorn in US tree pu the M36 in German only one week we can see topics like "Nashon is overtired and M36 is OP"

Again, nice straw-men. I'd be nice if the US could get a Panther A premium at 5.0 though. 

 

Because the first light tank with that same HEAT-FS with the US is at 6.7 with Hullbreak.

Because compared to the other HEAT-FS tanks at 6.3 the WB is ridiculously better.

Because even at 6.0 Germans were still complaining about the APDS of the WB.

And finally because Axis keeps getting US tanks with better ammo, at more generous BRs while neither US or UK are getting Axis vehicles.

 

Edited by Slayer3XD
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1 hour ago, Slayer3XD said:

In other words, you are fine with the uptiering and downtiering because "Germany suffers", which is still supporting this stupid BR change.

After years of "the only problem is bad teams" "just flank" and another bs, hell no. Time to adapt.

1 hour ago, Slayer3XD said:

As far as I have seen, the people calling the M48 trash are the Germans, not the Americans.

False and is very typical see how US subforum is full of post calling trash and unplayable very good vehicles, M48 is one of them.

 

1 hour ago, Slayer3XD said:

Zero consistency from you. As if Germany didn't also have its own HEAT-FS slingers.

Germany obtain his first no-premiun postwar tank armed with HEAFS below 7.0 in 2019??? near 4 years after than the allies nations.

 

1 hour ago, Slayer3XD said:

I guess Gaijin isn't handholding the German playerbase enough.

Dont tall about handholdings. Laser 50s, idiotic low repair cost for most effective and spamed CAS, regular tree and premiun version for most importan vehicles, only nation with super heavy tank in 6.3, stock stabilizer, etc etc...

1 hour ago, Slayer3XD said:

And guess what? All those Pattons are still very vulnerable to German guns and Germany still has both US Pattons.

Isnt German M48 venerable too??? really you have problems is pen 70mm turret ring or the lfp?? and German M47 is premiun and very very rare vehicle.

 

1 hour ago, Slayer3XD said:

German MM isn't really different from US MM.

US never suffer the rocket spam, or the age of time travelers. Will be intersting see the super pro us players fighting in their Jumbos and Shermans vs Caernarvons, Vickers, Lorraine and IS-6.

1 hour ago, Slayer3XD said:

German M48, M41, newer French and Italian HEAT-FS slingers, all the Chinese tanks.

 

German Bundeswerh are new and very eraly addond so is too soon for obtain a proper result. Italian HEAFS are more meme than real threat, Frenchs ?? you mean AMXs, really those tanks scare you. And chinese pleaseee.

1 hour ago, Slayer3XD said:

Lets see if your legacy stats keep that way, from the last session, it doesn't look so.

Time to time.

2 hours ago, Slayer3XD said:

And Tiger can reverse twice as fast, has a hull that doesn't get overmatched by nearly everything at that BR, APHE shell with better slope penetration and HE filler and neutral steering.

 

Anything that can easily punch through a Tiger E, can also destroy a Jumbo on 5.7.

 

NO.

2 hours ago, Slayer3XD said:

 

You mean the same MM that keeps teaming Germany, Russia and everyone else since the French tank tree got added. 

 

Funny thing though, the T29, T34 and T95 are WWII designs, and it isn't like Germany didn't have post war vehicles sitting at 6.7 either.

7.0, 6.7 and 7.0... Maus 7.7...

2 hours ago, Slayer3XD said:

Pretty rich seeing complaints about APDS and stabilizers when all thanks using those two have been moved up, specially the British being nearly all 7.7.

APDS: Bad when the Leopards have to use it, godlike when the British use it.

Germany also fits the APHE meta of the lower tiers better than everyone else.

Yes bacause the APDS dispenser dont enjoy of idiotic low BR for years...

I just waintg for stabilizer tanks for Germany for "stabs are op"

And of course US dont enjoy of stronger APHE meta...

2 hours ago, Slayer3XD said:

Again, nice straw-men. I'd be nice if the US could get a Panther A premium at 5.0 though.

Probably would a bad tank for US standard.

 

2 hours ago, Slayer3XD said:

Because the first light tank with that same HEAT-FS with the US is at 6.7 with Hullbreak.

Because compared to the other HEAT-FS tanks at 6.3 the WB is ridiculously better.

Because even at 6.0 Germans were still complaining about the APDS of the WB.

And finally because Axis keeps getting US tanks with better ammo, at more generous BRs while neither US or UK are getting Axis vehicles.

Maybe this is because US/UK combo destroy every related to balance in RB during years????

Really i can understand your complains if every German and Italian tanks between 4.7 to 7.7 have a average of 65% meanwhile US is the in the opposite side, but no, they are the strongets combo nation rught now, all the others nations are under 50% in the same range.

Cmon is time the others can too ejoy with this game.

 

 
2 hours ago, Slayer3XD said:
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7 hours ago, Rainbowprincess said:

two things you definitely aren't

 

I have been fair and objective--that's why I have said what I have. I don't favor anyone nation (I play them all, so it'd be pointless to do so) and I just look at the facts. You don't see me talking about how it's okay for American tanks to be uptiered but lamenting that it'd be "troublesome" to uptier some others' tanks.

 

7 hours ago, Rainbowprincess said:

Starts with flak_dancers hilarious signature of you saying the panzer iv G is like a M18

 

That signature is hilarious because it's utter nonsense. What I said was entirely valid--he just took it out of context and made it up to mean something that it doesn't.

 

It's just another phony claim, made up in a desperate attempt to attack me when it's been found that my points aren't ones they can argue with.

 

7 hours ago, Rainbowprincess said:

and ends with the fact that you say US winrates are adequat and only a thing because germans don't play the objective.

 

This is something people can see in game for themselves--it's not my claim, it's just something that happens.

 

I still remember that Phlydaily Jumbo video--parroted as proof of how OP the Jumbo (supposedly) was--went on to show exactly this problem.

 

7 hours ago, Rainbowprincess said:

You Sir, is not objective or fair

 

Incorrect. To paraphrase another forumer, the unforgivable sin I'm guilty of it that I have implied German vehicles can be good (and very commonly are good). I didn't buy into the "German, therefore inferior" line, so now I've got all the people who run that party line on my case.

 

I'm more concerned with being truthful than appealing to those people hating on Germany, so I'll continue to speak the truth.

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7 hours ago, Flak_Dancer said:

With more than 600 battles played and you take the last battles...talking about cherry picking.

 

Looking at the relevant data =/= cherrypicking.

 

That reminds me of the comically terrible assertion that a person with hundreds of T29 battles before the patch must have seen more success than they say just because their average hasn't fallen away in a few days' time.

 

7 hours ago, Flak_Dancer said:

First complain about HVAP is nerfed but later use APCR from Tiger 1 as valid point... muh double standard is hard.

 

Each of the Jumbos has a worse gun than the Tiger Is'. The 75mm doesn't even have APHE initially, as the Tiger does.

 

7 hours ago, Flak_Dancer said:

I forget now the allies have stupid high win ratios, those are not a valid point anymore. Good old times when they cry about Tiger or Lepard high win ratios :lol2:

 

The Allies only have those WRs because they play the objectives more; if Germans pursued them with more zeal, WRs would likely be comparable or within 10% or one another.

 

7 hours ago, Flak_Dancer said:

Is well kwow Germany and Italy obtain tons of new 6.7 since 1.87... really find a better excuse.

 

Conditions change with the patch. Vehicles are far from the only thing that change these conditions.

 

7 hours ago, Flak_Dancer said:

Yes of course, every knows when allies have good results is "cuz bad enemies teams" they never have extremly good or undertired tanks.

 

Nobody said that all Allied tanks are bad--but bad teams opposing the Allies are a known trend and they've been shown many times over.

 

 

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5 hours ago, LahvanCz said:

I agree that Pz4 F2 should be uptiered. M4A3 should not have been moved to 5,7. M18 and T20 yes.

But I find this discussion funny:

Pz4 F2 WR 51,4 K/D 2,03 - Slayer&Warrior: This tank is OP!!! UPTIER!!!

Jumbo (76) WR 69,58 K/D 2,58 - Slayer&Warrior: This tank is screwed!!! DOWNTIER!!!

 

Eh, no, that's not what has been said or why.

 

The reason why people have spoken out about Panzer IV F2 (and other variants) is that it's objectively better armed than its peers and it has sustained WRs in the 60s for 4 years--only dropping off recently. Looking at the vehicle itself, this is the dominant tank for the BR and it's been clubbing.

 

The 76mm Jumbo is rather different; despite the hype it attacts, the vehicle is a 5.0 Jumbo hull and turret with a 3.7 vintage 76mm cannon installed. There has never been a good explanation as to why 5.0 hull + 3.7 cannon = 6.0 tank. If you have one, I'll wait.

 

The things that have been said about these vehicles are said in the name of balance--you can't just look at the player based statistics and ignore the vehicles themselves.

 

6 hours ago, LahvanCz said:

M18 had WR 68,51 yesterday (on graph) and KD 1,6, T20 WR 75,91 and KD 3. And that is AFTER BR raise.

 

To begin with, this is likely still due to lagging effects and the greater propensity of Allied teams to cap. Even so, this does touch upon a bigger issue: the Allies might end up having their vehicles punished just for playing the objectives.

 

That possibly is certainly a major, real concern for the Allies, as they could find their vehicles being strangled to unplayability by undeserved uptiers to oblivion. The US tree's capabilities have been severely degraded over the past few years. 4.X is now made up of only one (to three) vehicle(s), the Jumbos are at BRs where their guns and/or armor are mediocre and other trees have plentiful supplies of American tanks that negate the Americans' own capabilities (and these foreign tanks are often superior too).

 

Considering most of the changes in the last round were already undeserved, I sympathize with them--and I say that as a German player.

 
5 hours ago, Flak_Dancer said:

62% win ratio, i win more tha lose, only fanatic us fanboys see the end of the world after br bump.

 

Eh, no. To begin with, the apocalyptic Panther II comments of "ruined" are still memorable to this day. Second, US players are not claiming the end of the world...they're just (correctly) pointing out the reduced competitiveness of their vehicles when they suffer uptiers.

 

The fact that there's a double standard at play here is obvious to anyone who's being fair, as it's readily visible in how the different nations are treated. It was treated as being tremendously important that the Tiger II (105) and other German 7.0s drop from 7.0 to 6.7--apparently that 0.3 BR was a big deal for them. Paradoxically, the uptiering of the Americans by the same measure is treated as no big deal. Either both of these are serious matters or neither is--and only with a double standard in place can there be split treatment.

 

5 hours ago, Flak_Dancer said:

I dont support the idea of uptier M4A3 or donwtier M48 only for Germany, but im not say no after years of free abusing of allies.

 

This is you literally saying you don't care about the Allies or balance for them. :facepalm: If the Allies ever got that sort of treatment, you'd doubtlessly be screaming about it.

 

3 hours ago, Flak_Dancer said:

After years of "the only problem is bad teams" "just flank" and another bs, hell no. Time to adapt.

 

The comical part of that is that "just flank bro" was originally a German line invented before the arrival of the T series tanks.

 

At that time--as with now--Tiger IIs faced off with M18s and other lightweight vehicles. To guard against these threats, what Germans had to do to prevent Allied victories was not allow themselves to be flanked. At the time, German teams tended to be quite successful and boasted results that showed it--60% WRs were not unheard of. (I'm not sure where all of that went honestly, as I've shown that playing the anti-flanker role still brings that success these days.)

 

3 hours ago, Flak_Dancer said:

False and is very typical see how US subforum is full of post calling trash and unplayable very good vehicles, M48 is one of them.

 

Lmao, not even.

 

I saw people trashing the German M41 for having a stock grind on the first day it was out. I honestly wasn't sure that Germans really wanted that light tank they kept asking for after all the derision they gave the poor M41. Gaijin could be forgiven if they removed it based on the belief that the negative reaction was indicative of a lack of interest in the M41 by Germans.

 

3 hours ago, Flak_Dancer said:

US never suffer the rocket spam

 

The US doesn't have very good SPAAs, so any CAS facing it is pretty threatening...and to correct the record, Allied CAS only accounted for 8% of tank kills during the supposed rocket spam. Just as it is now, CAS accounted for 1/10th the amount of tank kills that other tanks were responsible for.

 

3 hours ago, Flak_Dancer said:

the age of time travelers

 

Meanwhile, the R3 T20 is around...

 

3 hours ago, Flak_Dancer said:

German Bundeswerh are new and very eraly addond so is too soon for obtain a proper result. Italian HEAFS are more meme than real threat, Frenchs ?? you mean AMXs, really those tanks scare you. And chinese pleaseee.

 

So if Italy has HEAT-FS slingers at 6.3 with HEAT-FS stock and M18-esque speed, they're a "meme" more than a threat.

 

When the US has the M56, vulnerable to MG, equipped with a bouncy gun and possessing HEAT-FS as a Tier IV upgrade, it's a brutal killer.

 

Double standards again...

 

3 hours ago, Flak_Dancer said:

Probably would a bad tank for US standard.

 

All things considered, why don't you support a Panther A for the US at 5.0 if you think that?

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On 11/02/2020 at 23:07, Slayer3XD said:

As far as I am concerned, TS still showing the data before the patch

Graphs can show you data day by day. No need to be concerned, just look.

 

On 11/02/2020 at 23:07, Slayer3XD said:

Which is extra funny in the case of the F2 because it is outside of all 76mm M4, Hellcat and Jumbo range

75mm Sherman can blab F2 quite easily, it is just 50mm box with gun...

 

On 11/02/2020 at 23:07, Slayer3XD said:

Because those tanks received APFSDS at 8.3 when no one else had them, or did you forget the damage the A1A1 did when it got the DM23 at 8.3 when everyone else was stuck with slower tanks and garbage tier APDS.

Wrong, doomsayers came when Gaijin announced moving those tanks from 9,0 to 8,7.

 

On 12/02/2020 at 05:15, warrior412 said:

To begin with, this is likely still due to lagging effects and the greater propensity of Allied teams to cap.

Are we really going to discuss this again? We both know well why German tank players (even experienced ones like you) rather stay away from caps unless they have to, yet you still bring this up over and over.

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19 hours ago, Slayer3XD said:

The M4A3, M4A1 and T20 were good at their Battle Ratings but not OP

 Again, the T20 was borderline OP, M4 was fine at 5.3. 

 

19 hours ago, Slayer3XD said:

Such as? The last three patches we saw all the tanks from UK and US being moved up

This pretty much answers your question. The fact they were moved up is a clear sign they were too strong. T20, Brit 6.3's, Obj906 and T54's at 7.3, T29, US 4.7 BR, FR OP Lorr, KV220, US top BR, Allied clubbing before 1.71 with rockets and the same T32E1 you named are just some examples.

 

20 hours ago, Slayer3XD said:

Stop strawmanning, no one said the Panzer IVs would be pushed above 4.3.

You should ask @warrior412 what he thinks about that.

 

21 hours ago, warrior412 said:

Um, no, pointing out the Jumbo 76 is overtiered and outclassed in the 6.7/7.0 matches it’s put into is just acknowledging reality. By those BRs, the armor is meaningless and the gun is a peashooter. 5.7 or even 5.3’d be fine.

 

Almost every tank is outclassed when uptiered +1, what a surprise! 

 

21 hours ago, warrior412 said:

There you go again...

When an Allied tank is uptiered, it’s no big deal.

If a German vehicle is proposed to be uptiered, it’s troublesome.

The good ole double standard. I’ll bet the American black hole of 4.X isn’t “troublesome” to you, right?

That's because some tanks weren't supposed to be at those low BR's in the first place, simple as that. 

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I wanted to express my disappointment with the change of tier of the American T20 tank .... 5.7 for this tank is an exaggeration ... there is no cannon to pierce anything that catches against ... you are evaporated from the game with a shot from any enemy , and you can't penetrate anything .... If you don't want to be angry and throw money away don't buy that tank ... maybe in the past it was very good ... but now .... a disappointment ....

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9 hours ago, aBrumz_suFFers said:

You should ask @warrior412 what he thinks about that.

 

I have echoed what Slayer’s said...

 

On 11/02/2020 at 12:09, Slayer3XD said:

The G and the H could very well stay at 4.3 and the F2 and J could as well stay at 4.0 or the J goes to 3.7 and the F2 to 4.0.

 

This is roughly what I figure would be for the best.

 

9 hours ago, aBrumz_suFFers said:

This pretty much answers your question. The fact they were moved up is a clear sign they were too strong.

 

Lmao, no, that’s not how uptiers/economic changes work—often times they’re undeserved.

 

I still remember how the A6Ms got screwed by BR assignment years ago for exactly the same reason.

 

You’d probably say the Panther II was another example...

 

9 hours ago, aBrumz_suFFers said:

Allied clubbing before 1.71 with rockets

 

Ah yes, I remember patch 1.71...the patch a mere 27 months ago.

 

As an added bonus, I’ll add that the supposed clubbing of 1.67/1.69 was nothing more than hype—statistics proved that.

 

9 hours ago, aBrumz_suFFers said:

Almost every tank is outclassed when uptiered +1, what a surprise! 

 

All the more reason it makes no sense for a 5.0 tank hull with a 3.7 gun to be stuck facing 7.0s.

 

9 hours ago, aBrumz_suFFers said:

That's because some tanks weren't supposed to be at those low BR's in the first place, simple as that. 

 

Eh, no, not really.

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19 hours ago, warrior412 said:

I still remember how the A6Ms got screwed by BR assignment years ago for exactly the same reason.

for which reasons? because morons thought it is a good idea to turnfight them in a P-51 or P-47?

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On 13/02/2020 at 03:13, warrior412 said:

You’d probably say the Panther II was another example...

 

Panther II is an average vehicle. Other than a very good gun the rest is simply mediocre. Don't get me wrong, it's a good vehicle but I would rather fight in the Tiger II if I had to choose or an M46 (even if it's 7.0).

 

On 13/02/2020 at 03:13, warrior412 said:

Ah yes, I remember patch 1.71...the patch a mere 27 months ago.

 

Since then Allies had been dominating where it was basically unplayable (yes that was the time) for Germany. 

 

On 13/02/2020 at 03:13, warrior412 said:

All the more reason it makes no sense for a 5.0 tank hull with a 3.7 gun to be stuck facing 7.0s.

 

Only it does... Not to mention 7.0's are very few and US has the best lineup there, but nice flawed logic here.

 

On 13/02/2020 at 03:13, warrior412 said:

Eh, no, not really.

Personally a T20 never belonged at 5.3, same thing for the M18 or even the M4A1 (76) at 4.7. Then there is the problem of BR's and uptieres which are unbalanced, but that's another story.

 

On 13/02/2020 at 02:11, CuiabaExpress said:

5.7 for this tank is an exaggeration ... there is no cannon to pierce anything that catches against ... you are evaporated from the game with a shot from any enemy , and you can't penetrate anything

There are like 4 vehicles in total which you cannot pen frontally, but even those have a few weakspots. But, the T20 is a rather fast and mobile vehicle and you should use that to your advantage rather than attack enemies frontally.

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12 hours ago, aBrumz_suFFers said:

Since then Allies had been dominating where it was basically unplayable (...) for Germany. 

 

I have a few vehicles whose results contest that...

 

12 hours ago, aBrumz_suFFers said:

Only it does... Not to mention 7.0's are very few and US has the best lineup there, but nice flawed logic here.

 

Ah yes...it’s great to face 7.0s with a tank cobbled together with parts from 3.X and 5.X—not to worry, the “7.0s are very few!” 

 

And I’m the one whose logic is flawed, lmao

 

The saddest part about this is that I’m pretty sure even you admitted the Jumbo 76 was fine at 5.7—but now you’re backtracking.

 

12 hours ago, aBrumz_suFFers said:

Personally a T20 never belonged at 5.3, same thing for the M18 or even the M4A1 (76) at 4.7. Then there is the problem of BR's and uptieres which are unbalanced, but that's another story.

 

The M18 has a gun from 3.7 on a vehicle that can be murdered by just about everything and mobility that’s mirrored by the R3’s (which also pops up at 3.7.) What makes 5.7 so critical?

 

I also chuckle at talk about the uptiering of the M4A1 (76). I suppose you think it was great to turn US 4.X into one of the barest wastelands in all WT?

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