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Lower/mid tier match making post 1.95 patch


These are the changes I've noticed for the lower/middle tiers regarding balance and the match maker while playing with a German 4.3 lineup + Pak Puma.

 

  • The majority of the US tanks giving any of the German tanks opposition has been moved up to to 5.0 and 5.7, both being blackhole battle ratings that guarantee constant uptiering.
  • There aren't enough players on UK and US playing lower tiers and the UK 4.7 tends to be sucked into 5.7 uptiers constantly as well.
  • There isn't an existing US or UK lineup on the 4.X range, the US only having premiums and a single unremarkable heavy tank and the British 4.0 being underwhelming. 
  • There are only fairly popular Russian tanks at 3.7, 4.0 and 4.3 to populate that battle rating spread. 
  • There are a lot of German 3.3 to 4.3 tanks and players.
  • Thanks to the above the downtier rate of the German 4.0 and 4.3 lineups is very high. 
  • This makes uptiers happen but mostly to 4.7 which is not really populated by anyone and 5.0 and 5.3 uptiers are increasingly rare and still fairly easy to win due to the massive gap the US now has between 4.0 and 5.0 tank wise and UK 4.7 still fairly easy to deal with German 4.0 and 4.3 tanks. 

 

965042311_GermanyvsRussiaMatchMaker.thum

 

From what I seeing, the Germany w/wo Italy vs USSR is becoming fairly common. From those matches I've noticed how most of the tanks happen to be the Soviet 3.7 and 4.3 lineups with some of the 4.0 with the 4.0 T-34 and now the KV-1S. Regardless of the team composition, Russian teams either get heavily curbstomped by Germany or the match is massive bloodbath with Germany more often than not coming out on top due to having no shortage of firepower or tanks or tank destroyers and captured vehicles that can easily deal with the Russian heavy tanks and T-34s.

 

Germany 3.3 to 4.3 was already a sweet spot, now it is a honey pot. Winning is getting as easy as ever and with the biggest threats haven gone up, downtiers and partial downtiers are guaranteed most of the time. 

336856592_GermanyvsRussiaMatchMakerResul

Meanwhile, when I played US 5.0 this is what is happening.

 

  • Most of the matches are 5.7 and 6.0 against Germany/Russia/France/Italy
  • I haven't seen a single downtier to 4.0-5.0, the lowest I've seen was 4.3-5.3 vs Russia and Germany.
  • Even at a full uptier, hardly any US/UK 5.7 or even 6.0 tanks due to them being dragged to 6.3 and 6.7 more frequently.
  • Most of the matches are either the US/UK being curbstomped or dragged down to a stalemate that either side could win by ticket drain.
  • More often than not the German/Russian teams along France and Italy  have 5.0, 5.3 and 5.7 tanks while the US and UK have been reduced to just 5.0 and a few overtiered 5.7 tanks. 
  • US 5.7 is practically unplayable, you either use the hellcat to flank or play passive with the 5.7 mediums because of the constant uptiering to 6.7 where the firepower of the 76mm is almost worthless for direct firefights even against 6.3 vehicles, let alone against 6.7 vehicles. 

 

Playing 6.3 and getting 6.7 matches usually mean that most of my team is going to be 5.7 and 6.0 due to the amount of tanks added to those battle ratings and just a few 6.3 and 6.7 tanks. The main difference is how most of those matches now are being Allies vs Axis. Before 1.95 most of the matches would have been US/UK vs GE/RU with Allies vs Axis in the between, due to the massive amount of players flocking to Germany 6.3 and 6.7 thanks to the changes the match maker is setting up a lot of Allies vs Axis matches.  

 

I lost basically half of my matches and more than a handful of wins were thanks to the German team getting too confident and rushing the spawn and getting killed there or by trying to hold the cap points long enough to win. The Battle mode is pretty much a guaranteed win for Germany at 6.3 and 6.7 with certain maps that have no flanking routes or force everyone into choke points are also instant wins for Germany, Berlin, Finland, Sinai Large, Kursk and Middle East are easy wins for German teams, again putting a lot of the opposition out of range and pulling up plenty of tanks that can be point and clicked but have issues facing off German armor is also helping, a lot. 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Slayer3XD said:

 

336856592_GermanyvsRussiaMatchMakerResul

 

 

The issue is, that youre an exceptionally superior player. You have K/D ratios up to 10:1 for some of your key vehicles. A player who constantly kills that much enemy tanks, sometimes even 10+, has an exceptionally high impact on the pace of any match. Alot games are just 10 vs 10 or 12 vs 12 sized matches, go figure what happens if one capable player nukes that large numbers of the enemy team just by himself.... Its to expect that you generate high winrates. So screenshots like this are just the result of your very own elite playstyle.

 

But just one out of ten thousand players might be as good as you are. For the average player crowd the game is probably well balanced. Computer games will be always balanced for the majority of players, not for the very small minority of elite gamers.I fear, your own exploits have no statistical significance. Its just you.

 

Its not the first time you're trying to generalize ingame issues from your very own exceptional perspective. This is misleading....

 

 

Edited by Thodin
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45 minutes ago, Thodin said:

The issue is, that youre an exceptionally superior player. You have K/D ratios up to 10:1 for some of your key vehicles. A player who constantly kills that much enemy tanks, sometimes even 10+, has an exceptionally high impact on the pace of any match. Alot games are just 10 vs 10 or 12 vs 12 sized matches, go figure what happens if one capable player nukes that large numbers of the enemy team just by himself.... Its to expect that you generate high winrates. So screenshots like this are just the result of your very own elite playstyle.

 

Not really, even those 10+ kill matches are a minority of my matches, most of them are 2 to 4 kills tops per match depending of how it develops.

 

And my playstyle doesn't affect that much, personally I focus on killing everything I can and let my team take vantage of lower enemy resistance, but if my team can't or won't take vantage or if I didn't manage to deal enough damage, I still lose.

 

My German 4.3 got consistent wins with a few losses this week meanwhile my American 5.0 got 50/50 win/loss even when I tried my hardest to carry the match. Single player performance is overstated. It is the teams that win the match, some players can tip the balance one way or another but not all the time. It is true that good players will have higher win rations than the average, what isn't true is the consistency of the win/loss rations from BR brackets. I know that if I jumped to US 10.0 right now I'd be hard pressed to get good results while I know that if I stay within Germany 4.0 I'd get a lot more wins than losses. 

 

48 minutes ago, Thodin said:

But just one out of ten thousand players might be as good as you are. For the average player crowd the game is probably well balanced. Computer games will be always balanced for the majority of players, not for the very small minority of elite gamers.I fear, your own exploits have no statistical significance. Its just you.

 

49 minutes ago, Thodin said:

Its not the first time you're trying to generalize ingame issues from your very own exceptional perspective. This is misleading....

 

Hardly any different from certain other players here and there who makes posts and threads highlighting their own experience and what they think that is clubbing or being clubbed. 

 

 

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Has the matchmaker's current US-UK v.s. Soviet-German-French-Chinese-Italian teams always been a thing? Sorry, I've only just started playing ground- I play air more often, and I'm currently looking to grind through the british tree to get a Centurion right now.

 

Other than that, I want to get a Panzer IV H and spade it off. Are these all achievable goals or should I scrap them and stay in the aircraft kids corner?

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3 hours ago, Aussie_Mantis said:

Has the matchmaker's current US-UK v.s. Soviet-German-French-Chinese-Italian teams always been a thing? Sorry, I've only just started playing ground- I play air more often, and I'm currently looking to grind through the british tree to get a Centurion right now.

After the introduction of the XYZ-70 and Gaijin forbidding Germany from teaming with US and UK, yes. After the French tree got added, the GE/RU and everyone else vs US/UK has been a common set up for US/UK players.

 

The Centurions are decent support tanks, though once you hit 5.7 expect nothing but uptiers. 

3 hours ago, Aussie_Mantis said:

Other than that, I want to get a Panzer IV H and spade it off. Are these all achievable goals or should I scrap them and stay in the aircraft kids corner?

 

The Panzer IVH is great, just don't use the add-on armor since it makes it too slow. A solid 4.3 lineup would be a Panzer IVH, a Hetzer a TD or Tank of your choice from 4.0 or the Dicker Max from 4.3 and two planes for lawn mowing or a fighter to make sure your team doesn't get lawn mowed.

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Winning with Germany at 4.0-4.3 was already easy to do even before the patch, so I don't understand what you are complaining about. Just like I don't understand why you see US suffering everywhere when it's not true. I've recently been playing Cobra King and T20, the first has 70% WR despite being thrown into 6.0 battles 8/10 of the times while T20 sits at 88%! 

Edited by aBrumz_suFFers
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On 08/02/2020 at 23:07, Slayer3XD said:

My German 4.3 got consistent wins with a few losses this week meanwhile my American 5.0 got 50/50 win/loss even when I tried my hardest to carry the match.

 

So when Germans lose is cuz bad teams but now the US have problems is because BR changes???

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1 hour ago, Flak_Dancer said:

So when Germans lose is cuz bad teams but now the US have problems is because BR changes???

Losing because of bad teams is one thing, losing because all your best tanks have been moved to uptier hellhole, the only ammo that could do anything in a full uptier is nerfed to oblivion and the tanks that could give you breathing room are also moved up, it isn't much of a surprise that winning matches isn't exactly going to be fair task. 

 

Truly a point and click adventure for German and Russian teams feeding on overtiered tanks. 

8 hours ago, aBrumz_suFFers said:

Winning with Germany at 4.0-4.3 was already easy to do even before the patch, so I don't understand what you are complaining about. Just like I don't understand why you see US suffering everywhere when it's not true. I've recently been playing Cobra King and T20, the first has 70% WR despite being thrown into 6.0 battles 8/10 of the times while T20 sits at 88%! 

I checked, you haven't played the T20 much with not even 40 matches, your win and kill rates got a fairly decent drop with the Cobra and your M4A1 lost far more matches than it won on your last session. 

 

Winning with Germany at 4.0/4.3 was easy, now with all the tanks that might have given them a headache moved up, it is stupid easy now.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Slayer3XD said:

because all your best tanks have been moved to uptier

And what did you expect after years of easy mode???

 

5 minutes ago, Slayer3XD said:

 

Truly a point and click adventure for German and Russian teams feeding on overtiered tanks.

 

You mean, like US tanks did all this time?

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Flak_Dancer said:

And what did you expect after years of easy mode???

 

The Allies were not an “easy mode,” their teams simply played the objectives more and thus they had higher WRs. (Germany still retained better exchange rates often times too.)

 

The Panzer IVs sat on win rates in the 60s for four years—where are the uptiers for that “easy mode,” huh?

 

If high WRs for the Allies are what triggered uptiers, where were the Panzer IVs’ uptiers?

 

I’m a German player myself but I must admit that the Allies were shafted badly. They were basically just punished for playing well.

 

Now the Americans have a wasteland at 4.X with a whopping 3 vehicles and a blackhole of uptiers throughout 5.X—and that’s after the US tree has been degraded by its capabilities being mimicked in other trees too.

 

Edited by warrior412
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10 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

 

their teams simply played the objectives more and thus they had higher WRs.

 

False and you perfectly know that. If your theorie was correct Germans should have bad win ratios in all modes, but in Sim and Arcade have similar or even better win ratios and objectives are the same in all modes, so this argument is just pure BS.

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10 minutes ago, Flak_Dancer said:

False and you perfectly know that. If your theorie was correct Germans should have bad win ratios in all modes, but in Sim and Arcade have similar or even better win ratios and objectives are the same in all modes, so this argument is just pure BS.

 

Incorrect, as AB/SB results are immaterial to RB.

 

AB is a mode with nations mixed—nothing can be told from that mode regarding nations because everything id mixed.

 

SB is a mode where visibility (as compared to RB) is greatly reduced. Camping works much better in SB than in RB.

 

What I said stands.

 

————

 

You didn’t say anything about the Panzer IVs’ reprieve either.

 

Why is it okay for the Panzer IVs to have high WRs for years with no uptiers but not the Allies (who got them by playing the objectives)? What’s with the double standards?

Edited by warrior412
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6 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

 

AB is a mode with nations mixed—nothing can be told from that mode regarding nations because everything id mixed.

 

But you say the Germans ahve worst win ratios because dont play the objectives but all modes have the same objectives, soooo...

7 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

 

 

SB is a mode where visibility (as compared to RB) is greatly reduced. Camping works much better in SB than in RB.

 

But if they camp , they lose because the objectives are the same. And how you camp better with less visibility???

8 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

 

You didn’t say anything about the Panzer IVs’ reprieve either.

 

Why is it okay for the Panzer IVs to have high WRs for years with no uptiers but not the Allies (who got them by playing the objectives)? What’s with the double standards?

You talking about double standars?? :lol2:

rRon7vj.png

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21 minutes ago, Flak_Dancer said:

But you say the Germans ahve worst win ratios because dont play the objectives but all modes have the same objectives, soooo...

 

I was referring to RB and any attempts to say AB and SB are applicable to RB is just reaching.

 

AB has mixed teams—nations don’t really exist there, it’s just red team versus blue team.

 

21 minutes ago, Flak_Dancer said:

But if they camp , they lose because the objectives are the same. And how you camp better with less visibility???

 

Not everyone has to cap—only one person per objective is needed. Once you have the objective, camping becomes your best move and Germans are well suited for camping

 

Camping is better with less visibility because a stationary target is less easily seen than a moving target.

 

21 minutes ago, Flak_Dancer said:

You talking about double standars?? :lol2:

rRon7vj.png

 

The fact that this personal attack with a fake meme is all you can muster when asked to explain the Panzer IVs’ treatment pretty well says it.

 

To correct the record: I treat all matters fairly—I don’t pick favorite nations and I don’t invent different standards to judge by. 

 

That meme just goes to show how people like myself are attacked for pointed out the Germans’ clubbing. If you debunk the German victimhood hoax, you get attacked—that’s how things go around here. You better say “Germany suffers” or you’ll get hounded.

 

—————

 

Amusingly enough, even in your own meme, the Panzer IV is still the highest performing vehicle there. It boasted results like that for years but was never uptiered. The FV4202, claimed to be a clubber, had comparable results for a few weeks and yet it was uptiered with its ammunition nerfed too.

 

If the Panzer IVs were Allied tanks, people like you would have demanded their uptiering years ago.

Edited by warrior412
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5 hours ago, warrior412 said:

 

 

AB has mixed teams—nations don’t really exist there, it’s just red team versus blue team.

But individuals Germany tanks here have similar or even better results than Allies.

 

5 hours ago, warrior412 said:

 

Not everyone has to cap—only one person per objective is needed. Once you have the objective, camping becomes your best move and Germans are well suited for camping

 

Camping is better with less visibility because a stationary target is less easily seen than a moving target.

False, maybe if you play a SINGLE battle in Sim maybe discover how wrong are you are. Objectives are exactly the same but you silly theorie dont affect Germany players here.

Maybe is because War_Child85 said this is only in your head???

If Germans camp in SIM they lose is pretty simple.

 

5 hours ago, warrior412 said:

this personal attack

The only personal here is your insane hate for Germany players for a totally unknow reason.

 

5 hours ago, warrior412 said:

 

If the Panzer IVs were Allied tanks, people like you would have demanded their uptiering years ago.

I demanded several times uptier tanks like Panzer 4F2, KV-1B or im totally against downtier the M48. Yes im not so false than you, in one topic you are against donwtier a totally overtired german tanks "because BR handouts can affect player perform" and in another topic you suggest ridiculous br drops for US tanks.

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48 minutes ago, Flak_Dancer said:

But individuals Germany tanks here have similar or even better results than Allies.

 

There are no nations in AB really—so that could mean Germany carries itself or that other nations carry everyone. There’s no way to know.

 

48 minutes ago, Flak_Dancer said:

False, maybe if you play a SINGLE battle in Sim maybe discover how wrong are you are. Objectives are exactly the same but you silly theorie dont affect Germany players here.

 

Objectives are the same there as in RB—only one person needs to cap. The difference is visibility is reduced and camping is more effective in SB due to this.

 

48 minutes ago, Flak_Dancer said:

Maybe is because War_Child85 said this is only in your head??

 

Humorous, but no. In some of his posts WC apparently didn’t even understand that statistics like hundreds of battles do not happen overnight with BR changes having happened the night before, so I doubt he understands this either.

 

With only a few hundred battles ever, he’s quite inexperienced.

 

48 minutes ago, Flak_Dancer said:

If Germans camp in SIM they lose is pretty simple.

 

Not really. Even in RB large portions of the German team can camp and do well if they play it smart and don’t completely ignore the objectives. Battle mode is where this strategy does the absolute best.

 

48 minutes ago, Flak_Dancer said:

The only personal here is your insane hate for Germany players for a totally unknow reason.

 

I do not hate German players, that’s just another one of the phony lies made up about me. The most ridiculous part is I am a German player. :facepalm:

 

The reality is that I have not been hateful towards German players, I’ve believed in them as being capable of succeeding on their own—of not needing pity and BR handouts to succeed. Because I’ve rejected the allegations of German inferiority, I have been more supportive of German players than many other people.

 

What I have been is critical of BR changes and policy that have been made to make things easier for people than they ought to be, pointing out how such an idea is prone to failures and invites players doing poorly to continue to do poorly. Looking at the P-51Ds, the Tiger H1 and the Panther A’s situations, my critiques have been vindicated.

 

Far from hating German players, I have also done a tremendous deal to help them by pointing out successful strategies like anti-flanking. If German teams were more open to outside ideas like this and used them, they’d do far better than they do. (Sadly, I do doubt they’ll even try these things.)

 

Overall, willingness to critique is not hatred so please cease claiming them to be the same. They are not.

 

48 minutes ago, Flak_Dancer said:

I demanded several times uptier tanks like Panzer 4F2, KV-1B or im totally against downtier the M48. Yes im not so false than you, in one topic you are against donwtier a totally overtired german tanks "because BR handouts can affect player perform"

 

Are you talking about the Tiger II (H) to BR 6.3 thread? If so, the Tiger II (H) basically has the same MM it’d have under that anyway with all the US 5.7s that get dragged up to 6.7 now. (If the Tiger II (H) was a 6.3 now, it’d just be ridiculous.)

 

In the last BR adjustment thread, I advocated for more downtiers/ranking (rank II to III) changes than I did uptiers for German vehicles, so I’m not sure why you think this.

 

48 minutes ago, Flak_Dancer said:

in another topic you suggest ridiculous br drops for US tanks.

 

Citation?

Edited by warrior412
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19 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

 

There are no nations in AB really—so that could mean Germany carries itself or that other nations carry everyone. There’s no way to know.

So no explanation why your magical and silly arguments dont affect individuals player perform here, pretty easy because dont exist.

20 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

 

Objectives are the same there as in RB—only one person needs to cap. The difference is visibility is reduced and camping is more effective in SB due to this.

 

Again, this completely false. SB have the same capping system as RB but here Germany players perform well, why??

 

 

 

21 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

 

Humorous, but no. In some of his posts WC apparently didn’t even understand that statistics like hundreds of battles do not happen overnight with BR changes having happened the night before, so I doubt he understands this either.

Personal stats update after every battle, if you play 10 battles with 100% win ratio in one day your 40% easily past to 50%, is simple.

 

23 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

 

With only a few hundred battles ever, he’s quite inexperienced.

Coming from a guy talk about SB when you never play this mode, this is just comical.

 

24 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

 

I do not hate German players, that’s just another one of the phony lies made up about me. The most ridiculous part is I am a German player. :facepalm:

And??? You never supported a single improve for Germany in all those years and always blain the germany players, every when is well demostrate the problem is not players fault.

 

27 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

 

 help them by pointing out successful strategies like anti-flanking.

Let me guess with silly and totally nosense things like use spaa or pz 4 for counter flank US lights or use the Tiger 1 for fight Hellcats

Or you have horrible l2p problems or you are deliberate trolling , because those tips are insane.

 

30 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

 

Citation?

T-30 6.3 and Jumbo 76 5.3 for example...

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Flak_Dancer said:

So no explanation why your magical and silly arguments dont affect individuals player perform here, pretty easy because dont exist.

 

My arguments are rational and deal with the facts. You are apparently unable to argue with them, as you bring up AB (where there are no nations) and SB (where the meta is different) instead of RB, which is what was being talked about.

 

What I have said is correct but you cannot argue with it, so you're bringing up all of these other things and denying the rest.

 

5 minutes ago, Flak_Dancer said:

Again, this completely false. SB have the same capping system as RB but here Germany players perform well, why??

 

Because camping is a greater asset in SB than it is in RB. Moving makes you more vulnerable than staying put and so the German's main (supposed) weakness of lower average speeds isn't so much of a weakness in SB.

 

6 minutes ago, Flak_Dancer said:

Personal stats update after every battle, if you play 10 battles with 100% win ratio in one day your 40% easily past to 50%, is simple.

 

Statistics do not overwrite themselves. If you get a brand new vehicle and play 10 battles one day and win all 10, you will have a WR of 100%. When you get up the next day, play 10 more battles and lose all 10, you will have a WR of 50%. Statistics are cumulative. Looking at them a day after a change is worthless, especially if you do not account for the existing statistics that predated the change.

 

8 minutes ago, Flak_Dancer said:

Coming from a guy talk about SB when you never play this mode, this is just comical.

 

According to you:

 

9 minutes ago, Flak_Dancer said:

SB have the same capping system as RB

 

So, by your logic, why would I need to play much in SB?

 

You're trying to have it both ways...

 

10 minutes ago, Flak_Dancer said:

You never supported a single improve for Germany in all those years

 

False, I've been very supportive of Germany throughout the last few years. For instances, from the last BR change thread:

On 29/01/2020 at 21:22, warrior412 said:

 

Spoiler

 

GER

AFs:

 

  • Bf 109F-1 (2.3 -up-> 3.0): Superb aircraft; clubber at 2.3.
  • Bf 109F-2: (3.3 -down-> 3.0): Decent airframe, mediocre armament.
  • Bf 110G-2 (hold at 3.7, change to Tier III): This would make a nice Tier III aircraft and would mark the maturation of the Bf 110 family
  • Fw 190C (5.0 -down-> 4.3): Sluggish, single purposed aircraft. Out of place at 5.0.
  • Do 335s (5.0/5.3/5.7 -down-> one notch each): these cows have poor handling
  • Ar 234B (6.7 -down-> 6.3): The Ar 234B only has its speed to rely on and its speed is limited

GFs:

  • Sd.Kfz.234/4: (3.0 -up-> 4.3, change to Tier III): Similar enough to the M18 to deserve a much closer BR.
  • Panzer IV F2: (3.3 -up-> 3.7): Replace the StuG III F as they switch BRs
  • StuG III F (3.7 -down-> 3.3): Replace the Panzer IV F2 as they switch BRs
  • Wirbelwind: (3.7 -up-> 4.0 or 4.3): Easily the best SPAA under 6.0, with competition only from the R3 T20.
  • StuG III G (hold at 4.0, change to Tier III): This would make a nice Tier III vehicle and would mark the maturation of the StuG IIIs
  • Panzer IV J/premium command J variant (4.0 -down-> 3.7): Poor turret rotation renders it inferior to the G variant
  • Ostwind: (4.7 -down-> 4.3): After the belts were changed, the Ostwind's teeth were dulled
  • Panther A (5.7 -up-> 6.0): Far better than the Panther D.

 

More than half the changes I suggested were downtiers/making Rank II vehicles into Rank III for Germany.

 

17 minutes ago, Flak_Dancer said:

always blain the germany players, every when is well demostrate the problem is not players fault.

 

Not really. I mean if people don't play SPAAs then they/their team is at fault if enemy CAS outplays them. If people don't cover their flanks, it's their fault that the enemy flanks them.

 

I'm not blaming anyone, I'm just telling it like it is.

 

18 minutes ago, Flak_Dancer said:

Let me guess with silly and totally nosense things like use spaa or pz 4 for counter flank US lights or use the Tiger 1 for fight Hellcats

 

 

There's nothing silly or nonsensical about using German SPAAs (which make great wannabe TDs), Panzer IVs or the Tiger Is to wipe out lightweight, frail flankers like the M18--all of those things are capable of working as anti-flankers.

 

21 minutes ago, Flak_Dancer said:

Or you have horrible l2p problems or you are deliberate trolling , because those tips are insane.

 

No, those tips are very good and helped get me to do very well. My results in the Tiger II (P) (3.5:1 exchange rate and 75% win rate) have these strategies to thank in large part for the successes.

 

To be honest, saying these ideas--proven successes that they are--are "insane" just suggests you don't want Germany to win. It seems like you'd rather Germany lose than even consider using alternate strategies like the proven ones I've mentioned.

 

24 minutes ago, Flak_Dancer said:

T-30 6.3 and Jumbo 76 5.3 for example...

 

Lmao...these are the changes you're upset by?

 

The T30 is a joke of a 6.7 tank. BR 6.7 with a 33 second reload (with an expert crew) for a shell that has <200mm pen. People far and wide call the T30 a meme tank yet you say it's wrong to suggest it be downtiered to be a peer of the much more effective Tiger II (P)? Give me a break...

 

As for the 76mm Jumbo, again, this is a joke of an outrage. The M4A3E2's armor is already countered by 5.3 (Sturer Emil, Nashorn, SU-152, etc.) and the gun stems back from 3.7. There isn't anything special about the pairing, so what makes the M4A3E2 (76) so special? Nothing. People already agreed 6.0 was ridiculous for it when it was uptiered there--at the very least it could go to 5.7.

 

Despite the hype, the BR changes I've backed for the Americans are reasonable and in line with what most moderates agree with. So much for that, eh?

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38 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

 

My arguments are rational and deal with the facts.

Yes , you are very rational

 

"

the Panzer IV G is very much like German's M18.

 

 Denying the similarity between these two is just denying the obvious."

 

Warrior412 "objectives player"

 

:lol2:

 

Ignored since today.

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26 minutes ago, Flak_Dancer said:

Yes , you are very rational

 

"the Panzer IV G is very much like German's M18.

 

 Denying the similarity between these two is just denying the obvious."

 

Warrior412 "objectives player"

 

:lol2:

 

Ignored since today.

 

People ignore what they cannot argue with. Ignoring someone is just conceding that you cannot argue with what they've said, so you're giving up instead. The fact that you don't understand relativism between vehicles speaks a great deal and gives insight on why many people have problems with even comparable/duplicate vehicles.

 

The German M48 situation is likely explained by this sort of inability grasp vehicles' relative strengths.

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11 hours ago, Slayer3XD said:

losing because all your best tanks have been moved to uptier hellhole

Aherrm

That was deserved though.

 

I haven't seen a single player with winrate below 60% in the T20 or Jumbo for example

 

They had 75%-90% on Thunderskill

 

 

What do you think it is like to fight a T34 in your Tiger E?

Or hordes of T20 and M18 in your Pz IV

On 08/02/2020 at 21:52, Slayer3XD said:

 

965042311_GermanyvsRussiaMatchMaker.thum

 

Ok seriously if they cannot make a single kill in a match there is something wrong.

Seriously.

 

Russia is has extremely good lineups in the 3.7-4.3 BR range.

Various T-34s, the T-37-57 which is better than the Pz IV, KV-1's, good CAS with for example also the new TIS MA...

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53 minutes ago, NoodleCup31 said:

Aherrm

That was deserved though.

No it wasn't, the M4A3 and T20 aren't 5.7 tanks together with the Panther A and Tiger E.

 

Sure fighting Jagdpanthers, Ferdinands, all King Tigers with a tank that doesn't even have HVAP is fair and even if it had, HVAP has been so heavily nerfed, the only 76mm M4 with HVAP is on the same BR as a Panther A that has as much flat penetration with APHE and much better penetration against slopes. 

53 minutes ago, NoodleCup31 said:

I haven't seen a single player with winrate below 60% in the T20 or Jumbo for example

 

They had 75%-90% on Thunderskill

 

"Muh Thunderskill!", sure lets balance the game with win rates alone. I want my P-47s and P-51s at 3.7 again because Air RB is awful for the Allies. 

 

If win rates and Battle Ratins were related, no Panzer IV would be lower than 4.0 and yet they remained untouched for years.

 

53 minutes ago, NoodleCup31 said:

What do you think it is like to fight a T34 in your Tiger E?

Or hordes of T20 and M18 in your Pz IV

About as easy to fight a Tiger II(H) on a 76mm Jumbo. 

 

Fighting hordes on a Panzer IV? Only if the player is a good enough idiot to uptier a Pz IV to 5.3 with his Tiger H1.

Bollocks, Panzer IVs were very well outside of T20 and M18 range, only the Pz IVH could meet the T20 or the M18 was on a full uptier which alone would limite the amount of T20s and M18s to 4, hardly a "horde".

 

You don't know jack about what you are talking about. 

 

And if Win Rates were such important, then the T-34-85 DT, IS-1, IS-2, KV-85 and all KV-1s would have gotten a hefty BR drop, because they are performing much worse than their German counterparts. Which I find it funny because according to some people here, the Soviets always team with UK and US. If they really did, they'd be ridding the US/UK win rates instead of being down in the gutter. Which either means that the team with the Soviets lose more often regardless of being US or German or that the Soviets are being teamed with Germany far more often than they are with the US, which also means that Germany doesn't fight alone and it has the support of "Russian Bias" with their overperforming shells and good mobility to deal with US and UK tanks.

 

And the moment I suggested those tanks, specially the T-34s to get a 0.3 BR decrease, I got a bunch of naysayers claiming they are fine where they are.

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Slayer3XD said:

If win rates and Battle Ratins were related, no Panzer IV would be lower than 4.0 and yet they remained untouched for years.

 

Indeed; if there is a tie, it works intermittently at best.

 

I still remember the big deal that was made out of the Centurion Mk 3 and FV4202 back in 2018. They had WRs that were comparable to the Panzer IVs' (~65% or so) for a few weeks and the world was ending. Both the Cent Mk. 3 and FV were sent up to 6.7 and a nerf to the ammunition did not slow that BR hike at all. Meanwhile, the Panzer IVs had sustained WRs in the 60s for about four years and yet they haven't really seen any changes.

 

As I said in another post earlier, I think the Panzer IVs would have been uptiered long ago if they were Allied tanks.

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15 hours ago, Slayer3XD said:

I checked, you haven't played the T20 much with not even 40 matches, your win and kill rates got a fairly decent drop with the Cobra and your M4A1 lost far more matches than it won on your last session. 

 

Winning with Germany at 4.0/4.3 was easy, now with all the tanks that might have given them a headache moved up, it is stupid easy now.

I told you that out of the 60 battles played with CK at least 55 were at 5.7-6.0 (the recent BR changes probably made people rush 5.7s again) and the M41A1 has always been a backup tank since the times I played the M18. 

 

3 hours ago, Slayer3XD said:

No it wasn't, the M4A3 and T20 aren't 5.7 tanks together with the Panther A and Tiger E.

 

I would agree with the M4 but T20 can certainly compete at 5.7. It has a good gun with exceptional mobility and agility. 

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