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Is war thunder pay to win?


37 minutes ago, Corinthians88612 said:

 

This is not true, because you can pay to upgrade your crew, so they can target better, rage fiding better, reloding faster even driving better. While as I refuse to spend any money on this game I have a inexperienced, pay to wins have a full upgraded crew. Apart from take the have better vehicules as well. Most interested and better vehicules are premium, this is not only my opinion but also some youtubers. 

 

So yeah this game is pay to win. Honestly is the most pay to win game that I ever know, even beating FIFA Ultimate team. The game is only half free to pay, or even less, as you are not allowed to do almost nothing if you don't pay. No even choose the map you would like to play or not play. In my opnion this is the main reason for people decide to leave War Thunder, there is little reward to play this game.

 

The 100% true.

 

You can get crews by spending your time in game, currentely there's maybe like one or two premium vehicles that are outperforming at their br and are better than regular tech tree planes and tanks. Grind is long without a premium account but still doable and doesn't take that much time compared to premium players. Good player can average slightly behind average premium player with rp and sl gain.

Aced crews are overrated, boost isn't that big compared to expert you will hardly see any difference.

So mostly they give you advantage in time you need to spend to get something but not in ammount of effort you need to put to kill enemy. Also you can get premium currency from tournaments, events and wagers.

 

It's far from being p2w, just a little bit less painfull start if you decide to pay.

 

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There are only a few things I consider blatant pay to win 

• Crew slots

• Bushes 

• Anything that is difficult to take out but takes     you out with ease 

 

What I mean with this ^ is that the vehicles at it's battle rating struggles to deal with it effectively while it can deal with them with ease from any range look I don't mind a premium vehicle being good or slightly on par with tech tree variants while being a bit better

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9 minutes ago, SasquatchFox360 said:

• Bushes 

 

Which you can get for war bonds. You can also get GE from wagers to pay for crew slots. Not easy, desirable or possibly reasonable, but they're not P2W.

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Is war thunder pay to win? Sure it is:

 

When I started out playing war thunder over 4 years ago, I spend way over 100€ in order to get competitive. Without that investment, I would have been a much worse player than I was after.

 

What did I buy? Well, nothing in the game warthunder itself. I got a multi button mouse for over a hundred dollars. I also replaced my wireless gamepad with a wired one. I upgraded my RAM and replaced my old graphics card. After that, the game was MUCH easier to win.

 

So it is pay to win. But nothing I ever bought in the game thereafter had any effect like that hardware upgrade did.

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it is pay to win in a certain point ... warthunder is like most games, a game with a learn curve were u increase your skills like areal awarness or reaction time and so on. u can lower the bar drastically for the time being with paying for crew skills or tank moduls (gun turret and barrel moves faster etc. pp). Money makes it more easy for u to gain kills therefore XP. is it nessecary to spend money no ... cause sooner or later the learning curves even out and it comes down to sololy the player infront of the PC.

and when u increase your awarness in how this games works and how u can earn Free Stuff ... you can make your free game experience even more pleasent.

 

and its even more enjoyable when u see all those *cencored* who payed their way up for a pre-release sweden tree and are totally worthless in their BR10.0 ... its just awesome thanks guys for keeping this game free to play where i dont have to pay a dime

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No, no, not at all, this game is perfectly fair.... unless you refer to the premium missile spamming jets, a helicopter that ruins the fun for EVERY other nation be that ground or other helicopters and the fact that if you don't play premium you will haemorrhage lions in repair costs at high tier battles.

 

no, not pay to win..... 

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13 minutes ago, Jamaroo said:

No, no, not at all, this game is perfectly fair.... [...] no, not pay to win..... 


The discussion is about if Warthunder is a pay-to-win game (which it isn't), not about balance or fairness (in a competetive vehicular combat game).

As such, certain aspects of Warthunder might be seen as pay-to-win for the lazy minds but mostly that's just an issue of don't-know-how-to-defeat-or-handle.

 

A squad of two or three people with free vehicles can take out a standard premium vehicle in most situations if they share their information and do a coordinated attack.

 

Information wins wars.

Edited by michiyl
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No, the game for tankers is definitely not. In my opinion to do well at ground battles is that you keep an eye on the mini map. I am bad at straight tank vs tank duels, but kill a lot of enemy tanks from a distance when flanking them suing the mini map. A lot of players only look ahead at the cap zones or enemy spawn areas.

When having a vehicle with a lot lower BR than maximum in battle (like I find myself with my M24 quite often) don't rush forward, but try to flank the enemy. Doing that still gives me on average about 3 ground kills and one aircraft kill per lost M24.

As you can understand my favourite vehicle by far is the M24, standard from the American, Japanese and Chinese tech tree.

Sure there are some premium vehicles that are very good, but up to Br 4.7 I can't really think of any that are superior to anything in that BR that is superior to others.

For instance at BR 4.3 the KV-1E (KV-IB for the Germans) is a potent vehicle (if it says at a distance from enemy tanks) that can take a lot of punishment, but I think the KV-1 (ZiS-5) from the tech tree is superior.

Other good premium vehicles (but still killable) that can or could be bought are the German Nb.Fz. (at 1.3), Pz.III N (at 3.0) and KV IC 756(r) (at 4.7), the Russian T-35 (at 1.3) and T-126 (at 2.7), the Japanese Chi-Nu II (at 3.7, a KV-1 killer), But several of these I got through war bonds or events.

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47 minutes ago, Catskinner said:

 

Which you can get for war bonds. You can also get GE from wagers to pay for crew slots. Not easy, desirable or possibly reasonable, but they're not P2W.

One freaking Bush I can go outside my house and get more bushes than that for free and they don't even work properly I cant believe I sat for a week to get one lousy bush that some Japanese tanks cant be placed cause it hits the driver for some reason even though its closed vehicle 

 

You can tell which team has more crew slots by the way the defeat your team with them dying multiple times so if that isn't pay to win then I don't know

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1 hour ago, Catskinner said:

 

'Pay to Win' usually refers to content that is exclusively locked behind a paywall, forcing people to pay to have a chance of winning, so your example is not P2W... you can certainly pay to progress faster, both with research and crews, but there is nothing that a F2P player cannot acquire in time. Also, buying all the crew skill in the world will not make you a better player (although it will make the RNG slightly less awful).

 

In my experience of GF AB up to BR 7.7 (as far as I have any interest in going) there are very few examples of P2W and even those are dependent on the BR of the match (T14, KV-220, T-126, Sd.Kfz 234/4, etc).

 

 

No Pay to Win refers to someone using real money to have  advantage in a match, so yeah my example is P2W. Well it will not make you better, but it will make your life easier in the game and have a full upgrade crew will give you advantage. Now if a person will know how to use in his favor is a different history.

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Game IS NOT pay to win...period.

 

IT IS pay to PROGRESS. If you spend REAL MONEY you will progress FASTER.

A good free player will (almost) always beat a guy that spent HUNDRED of dollars but doesn't know how to play.

(The almost comes more from "luck" than paid content)

 

There are a few exceptions...but there are a lot "exceptions" on free content also...

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1 hour ago, Corinthians88612 said:

 

 

No Pay to Win refers to someone using real money to have  advantage in a match, so yeah my example is P2W. Well it will not make you better, but it will make your life easier in the game and have a full upgrade crew will give you advantage. Now if a person will know how to use in his favor is a different history.

 

Well placed shot will kill or disable enemy no matter if his crew is level 1 or 150 with ace. And you can get good crew fairly easilly too, just takes more time than buying points.

If enemy could buy something you cannot achieve and gives real advantage it is P2W 

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2 hours ago, Corinthians88612 said:

No Pay to Win refers to someone using real money to have  advantage in a match, so yeah my example is P2W. Well it will not make you better, but it will make your life easier in the game and have a full upgrade crew will give you advantage. Now if a person will know how to use in his favor is a different history.

 

It doesn't in common usage though that may be how you see it; it refers to something that you cannot get without paying. Gold ammo in The Other Tank Game(TM) is pay to win - it is a thing that is just better that you cannot acquire without paying money. Only premium vehicles in WT sit behind a paywall and even then, many can be bought for GE that you can acquire through wagers (I'm not suggesting that it's easy).

 

Crew skills in WT are not P2W because anyone can get them, it's just a question of how long it takes. I've been spanking people with my low-skilled Swedes quite happily; my knowledge of the game is far more important than crew skill.

 

As numerous people have said, WT is pay to progress, not win (although I think most agree that there are some 'problem' premiums at certain BRs).

Edited by Catskinner
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I don't think that WT is more P2W than any other game one the market, these days. 

 

20 years ago, you were buying every game and every update. Today the you get the game for free has taken over. But of course developers need to fund themselfes. Nothing is for free in the end. The Premium Vehicle, the GE and the premium subscription is just a way to get cash from the users. M365 works the same, Amazon Music the same way. All subscription basis. No one buys CD and DVD anymore.

 

You certainly can win against the premium vehicles. They are easy to outperform and nothing makes them win the matches by themselfs. There are units in this game which are OP and other less.

 

I have not won more matches, because after having Admiral Hipper, I bought Eugen. My XM-1 does not make me win more battles. Neither does my AH-64.

 

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Dear OP,

 

No.  This game is not pay to win.  It's typical of free to play games.  As you advance, things get more expensive and eventually you hit a wall where the increasing prices are unsustainable if you play for free.  Unless you're just an absolute master of the game.

 

But there are very few pay to win tanks/planes.  And even those aren't really pay to win, they're more pay to get an advantage.

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20 hours ago, JanuszHytrus said:

 

You can get crews by spending your time in game, currentely there's maybe like one or two premium vehicles that are outperforming at their br and are better than regular tech tree planes and tanks. Grind is long without a premium account but still doable and doesn't take that much time compared to premium players. Good player can average slightly behind average premium player with rp and sl gain.

Aced crews are overrated, boost isn't that big compared to expert you will hardly see any difference.

So mostly they give you advantage in time you need to spend to get something but not in ammount of effort you need to put to kill enemy. Also you can get premium currency from tournaments, events and wagers.

 

It's far from being p2w, just a little bit less painfull start if you decide to pay.

 

Yeah I have almost 1000hrs and I am far from have a ace in a single vehicule, Image how many hours I would have to play to have in all vehicules in all nations. "urrentely there's maybe like one or two premium vehicles that are outperforming" There is rips of premium vehicules that outperforms regular ones. I am not say that they are way better than regular, they may be only 5% better, but they are. Than you add to this the aced crew, bush and whatever that the game want to sell, the P2W player has a decent advantage over regular players.

 

"Aced crews are overrated, boost isn't that big compared to expert you will hardly see any difference." This is beside the point, I am not saying that the player will be th best in the word, but he will have a easier game than a regular one.

 

"Also you can get premium currency from tournaments, events and wagers". Yeah sure Gajin gives it all the  time, easy.

 

"It's far from being p2w, just a little bit less painfull start if you decide to pay." So you are saying that a regular player with a m6A1 will not have big issues to face a P2W player with a aced crew in a  KV 1 C 756 covered buy bushes? And this is just one example.

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17 hours ago, Catskinner said:

 

It doesn't in common usage though that may be how you see it; it refers to something that you cannot get without paying. Gold ammo in The Other Tank Game(TM) is pay to win - it is a thing that is just better that you cannot acquire without paying money. Only premium vehicles in WT sit behind a paywall and even then, many can be bought for GE that you can acquire through wagers (I'm not suggesting that it's easy).

 

Crew skills in WT are not P2W because anyone can get them, it's just a question of how long it takes. I've been spanking people with my low-skilled Swedes quite happily; my knowledge of the game is far more important than crew skill.

 

As numerous people have said, WT is pay to progress, not win (although I think most agree that there are some 'problem' premiums at certain BRs).

It is P2W not pay to have the Impossible. P2W means that you are using your money to help yourself to win, not necessary you will pay and have a garaned winning. You are taking the owrds meaning to the extreme. If it was only to buy what you cannot get for free, Team fortress woul be pay to win as you can only get cosmtics paying for it, but the game is not as everyone has the same weapons, so you only depends of your skills. 

 

 A game that is not pay to win, is the game that all players have the same chances and oportunities to play the game an win, depending only in their on Skills. As soon as, a player have the chance to pay to have advantages over others the game is pay to win, not necessary the P2W will have a winning, but he will have a better chance to archieve it. If not few or nome games wuld be pay to win, and nobody would be speaking about P2W.

 

I agree that the game have to make money as it is for free, but could be in a less agressive way. Due to be too much P2W for who is starting and the game gives you little to no rewards many people is leaving or given up the game to early. There is people that don't want to put any money on the game, and if they don't see that is a fair game they will not put much effort and time to play.

 

What is annoying to me is keep playing match over match in a low populated server, and the company not understand that doesn;t mater how many new tanks and planes they add to the game, if they don't do anything to make the game more easier and interesting for new players they will not have many new poeple in the game. More people in the game also means more money to the game. there is many traeds like this of people complaining about P2W and how hard is to be rewarded in the game.

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1 hour ago, Corinthians88612 said:

You are taking the owrds meaning to the extreme


Not me, I am just pointing out to you the commonly accepted use of the term P2W, i.e. content locked behind a paywall that is demonstrably better than content that is free. Just because you think it doesn’t mean that isn’t going to change the common usage or make you right :)

 

Real life example: my septuagenarian mum, who is reasonable with tech, decided to start using “lol” in texts and on Facebook to mean “lots of love”. I had to warn her about sending anyone condolences :) Just because she thought it should mean one thing doesn’t mean that anyone else does!

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I wouldn't say WT is P2W.
There are some borderline OP premiums but there are OP vehicles in regular tech tree, and there are lot of meh premiums (same situation in regular techtree)
Generally BEST vehicles /top of the line are in tech tree (except few disgraceful helis)


Premiums vehicles can give you slight advantage but who has whole lineup of premiums? I usually field 1-2 and 4+ regulars. And eve that slight premium advantage wont save

you from pilot snipe or well placed APHE. I would say game is too random and too skill based to say premiums will reliably get you more "wins"

But this game IS "pay to remove annoyances" and "pay to play high tier" - which is fine imo.
Some people pay for basic fpe/ repair kit gear, I don't - but man those first dozen rounds are pain. It's not even that bad in firs 3-4 tiers, later it gets nasty. 
And that 40 euros per year is what you pay to keep your economy (barely) positive, because without that you treat most of techtrees as "demo mode", in which you can play only to mid tier,

depends how good you are I guess. 

 

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I would say that is more Pay to progress faster.

If you are a non spending money player in this game you can have fun,I mean is a free game and needs something to survive,thats the reality.

If you dont care about taking 1 or 2 years to get to a top tier on one nation playing 1 or 2 hours at day for having fun you dont need to spend money,If you want everything now and faster yes instead.

Simple as that.

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2 hours ago, Catskinner said:


Not me, I am just pointing out to you the commonly accepted use of the term P2W, i.e. content locked behind a paywall that is demonstrably better than content that is free. Just because you think it doesn’t mean that isn’t going to change the common usage or make you right :)

 

Real life example: my septuagenarian mum, who is reasonable with tech, decided to start using “lol” in texts and on Facebook to mean “lots of love”. I had to warn her about sending anyone condolences :) Just because she thought it should mean one thing doesn’t mean that anyone else does!

 

 

But is the common usage

 

Real life exxample: Fifa is know as a pay to win game as you can spend a lot of money to have Cristinao Ronaldo and Messi in your team, anyone can get it for free, but if you use real money, PAY for how many packs it is necessary to get they, you are paying to win, as having the best two player in the game give you a huge advnadage in relation to others player. Your skill still matter, but you are two steps ahead of regular players.

 

So far I know this is pay to win, not only my opinion but general opinion of who play fifa, and for me ( my opinion) you don't understand the common usage and meaning of P2W, but anyway....

Here another example or whatever. https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pay-to-win

 

I know that there is no rule for a real definition about it. It is just a example of common usage of the expression.

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45 minutes ago, Corinthians88612 said:

So your septuagenarian mum example applies to yourself, just because you think it doesn’t mean that isn’t going to change the common usage or make you right.

 

You have just exactly proved my point :) Common usage of P2W refers to a paywall, end of chat. Common usage of LOL is 'laugh out loud' so I imagine some funeral goers were a little surprised by my mum's message; they assumed the common usage rather than 'lots of love'. Awkward :)

 

If you want it to mean something else just for you, cool, fill your boots. If it helps you believe that the dirty wallet warriors couldn't beat you if it wasn't for their dastardly disposable income, also cool. It's like you have decided to call 'red' a different name, say 'blue'. You will call it blue and you can be happy. Everyone else will be thinking "WTF it's red dude".

 

This is basically a pointless rant thread because you obviously weren't really asking a question, you were just looking for people to agree with you. Pretty much everyone has said WT is not P2W and given plenty of examples. You have chosen to maintain your own little reality. Enjoy! :)

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