Mudhorn

Soviet 8.3 Ammo Choices

Hey all;

 

I'm playing Soviet 8.3, and looking for feedback on what ammo you guys are using?

 

My experience so far, by tank:

 

T-62: Been using the stock APFSDS and haven't had a problem penetrating anything with it so far. Any reason to use the upgraded APFSDS round? I just unlocked the HEAT-FS and will probably carry a few for hull-breaking things.

 

T-10M: All I have used is the stock APCBC(HE) shell, and it is awesome for deleting things with a OHK. Have had a few non-pens but nothing crazy. Does anybody use the APDS or HEATFS on this tank? How well do they work?

 

T-55A: I haven't played this yet, but any recommendations?

 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, MattS93 said:

T-55A: I haven't played this yet, but any recommendations?

 

the APFSDS on T-55A is not as good as the spaded T-62

i would suggest carry APCBC, APFSDS and HEATFS

There are tanks that you cant one shot with APFSDS but you can do it with APCBC

There are tanks that you cant one shot with APFSDS but you can do it with HEATFS

its more versatile imo

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3 hours ago, MattS93 said:

Hey all;

 

I'm playing Soviet 8.3, and looking for feedback on what ammo you guys are using?

 

My experience so far, by tank:

 

T-62: Been using the stock APFSDS and haven't had a problem penetrating anything with it so far. Any reason to use the upgraded APFSDS round? I just unlocked the HEAT-FS and will probably carry a few for hull-breaking things.

 

T-10M: All I have used is the stock APCBC(HE) shell, and it is awesome for deleting things with a OHK. Have had a few non-pens but nothing crazy. Does anybody use the APDS or HEATFS on this tank? How well do they work?

 

T-55A: I haven't played this yet, but any recommendations?

 

 

 

T-62: 3BM-3 is less bouncy than 3BM-4 meaning that it can be better at high angle of attack despite lower penetration but stock round is perfectly workable, you may want to keep few HE/HEAT shells for very hard (HEAT only) or soft targets.

 

T-10M: APDS is good for bigger maps, you get good penetration, speed, ballistics and perfectly reasonable damage output. Use depending on preference but using at long range is not bad idea. HEAT and HE is same as T-62, few of them can go long way or be completely useless.

 

T-55A: Stock APDS is perfectly serviceable round and should be your go to until you get 3BM-25 at which point you need to decide which one you like better, stock 3BM-8 or 3BM-25, they are almost identical in practice with small differences in ballistic performance that may affect your accuracy above 800m just enough to matter. HEAT and HE is same as before keep few to kill soft targets and once you get HEAT you can use it to engage better armoured ones. APHE is a trap that some may recommend to you but post pen effect is not worth low pen, low velocity, bad ballistics since now you get stabilizer and not painful turret rotation, still bad by any measure but not painful meaning you can somewhat react at medium and long range where APDS and APFSDS rounds truly shine.

 

Finally I can't recommend historical sights enough especially for high speed kinetic rounds (more readable than default ones) and the fact that most soviet sights come with stadiametric rangefinders/scales set to NATO tanks.

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On 05/02/2020 at 00:57, MattS93 said:

Hey all;

 

I'm playing Soviet 8.3, and looking for feedback on what ammo you guys are using?

 

My experience so far, by tank:

 

T-62: Been using the stock APFSDS and haven't had a problem penetrating anything with it so far. Any reason to use the upgraded APFSDS round? I just unlocked the HEAT-FS and will probably carry a few for hull-breaking things.

 

T-10M: All I have used is the stock APCBC(HE) shell, and it is awesome for deleting things with a OHK. Have had a few non-pens but nothing crazy. Does anybody use the APDS or HEATFS on this tank? How well do they work?

 

T-55A: I haven't played this yet, but any recommendations?

 

 

 

Using my T-62, I really only use the stock round, but I've found that heavy targets like Maus seem to smash my HEATFS rounds so I end up using stock anyway. I've currently got only the ammo in the fuel tank, as the rest present a 1-shot KO that I've been trying to avoid. Without this, I am always 2 shots to kill unless APHE derivative or on that 30 degree angle just behind the UFP that gets all my crew in 1 shot. So I'll go around 15-18 APFSDS and 5 HEATFS. Should probably change HEAT back to the better APFSDS, as I have better results in that.

 

currently grinding T-10M, and considering avoiding T-55 completely as I have been scarred from british APDS and don't want that stock syndrome. APHE and APDS should both be stock IMO. Curious to see how it performs in the hands of a better player before discarding it completely, so I'm just as interested as OP.

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3 hours ago, GoddePro said:

Using my T-62, I really only use the stock round, but I've found that heavy targets like Maus seem to smash my HEATFS rounds so I end up using stock anyway. I've currently got only the ammo in the fuel tank, as the rest present a 1-shot KO that I've been trying to avoid. Without this, I am always 2 shots to kill unless APHE derivative or on that 30 degree angle just behind the UFP that gets all my crew in 1 shot. So I'll go around 15-18 APFSDS and 5 HEATFS. Should probably change HEAT back to the better APFSDS, as I have better results in that.

 

currently grinding T-10M, and considering avoiding T-55 completely as I have been scarred from british APDS and don't want that stock syndrome. APHE and APDS should both be stock IMO. Curious to see how it performs in the hands of a better player before discarding it completely, so I'm just as interested as OP.

 

Just finished researching the T-55A, so I'll start digging into that stock grind soon! The APDS will probably be unpleasant but overall I expect it to play like a slightly faster T-62...we'll see.

 

BTW I am done playing the T-10M in anything but a full downtier going forward...just feeding kills to the bad guys in 9.0+ matches. Ran it as my first spawn in 6 losses in a row, almost lost my mind...then had a good 8.3 match finally and logged off LOL.

 

 

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10 hours ago, GoddePro said:

currently grinding T-10M, and considering avoiding T-55 completely as I have been scarred from british APDS and don't want that stock syndrome. APHE and APDS should both be stock IMO. Curious to see how it performs in the hands of a better player before discarding it completely, so I'm just as interested as OP.

 

6 hours ago, MattS93 said:

BTW I am done playing the T-10M in anything but a full downtier going forward...just feeding kills to the bad guys in 9.0+ matches. Ran it as my first spawn in 6 losses in a row, almost lost my mind...then had a good 8.3 match finally and logged off LOL.

 

I'm finding T-10M completely useless tbh, even at downtier. It gets penned by EVERYTHING. And once it gets penned it's of course one-shotted cause of those bloody ammoracks and all the crew sitting in each other's laps. I am yet to get a kill this year with it and I've played at least 10 battles, got killed before I could do anything every time. In 8 out of 10 cases I was easily drilled through by APFSDS, the other two were HEATFS from 7.7 tanks (STB and Leo 1).

 

What mostly kills this tank for me is that it constantly gets faced with stuff that not only have darts that laugh at your armor, but also got thermals. Leopard at 7.7 stomps on it. Yeah, APCBC is godtier IF it reaches the target and pens, but how does it help you when you don't even get to use it because you get one-shotted by someone who saw you with thermals and then hits you with noskill apfsds helped by them having LRF (in the last years T-10M quietly lost the rangefinder module btw.,...). Your APCBC is harder to use at longer ranges cause of drop (and bounces easier than darts), plus you've got that stupid 15 sec reload time, slow turret, poor gun handling, no gun depression, abysmal mobility for this tier...

 

This tank should really be 7.7 with it's direct US counterpart, M103, and the German tank that it was introduced with as counterpart in same patch, Leopard 1, instead of two whole BR steps above.

 

And since it's 8.3 it faces everything from Type-74G, MTCA, L44 and of course the unwashed, smelly XM-1 horde.

 

 

Even with the apds stock syndrome I find T-55A move viable; if you ignore it's got the worst APFSDS of Tier 6 (that basically acts just like APDS) and should maybe be 8.0.

Edited by jackTIGR
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1 hour ago, jackTIGR said:

 

 

I'm finding T-10M completely useless tbh, even at downtier. It gets penned by EVERYTHING. And once it gets penned it's of course one-shotted cause of those bloody ammoracks and all the crew sitting in each other's laps. I am yet to get a kill this year with it and I've played at least 10 battles, got killed before I could do anything every time. In 8 out of 10 cases I was easily drilled through by APFSDS, the other two were HEATFS from 7.7 tanks (STB and Leo 1).

 

What mostly kills this tank for me is that it constantly gets faced with stuff that not only have darts that laugh at your armor, but also got thermals. Leopard at 7.7 stomps on it. Yeah, APCBC is godtier IF it reaches the target and pens, but how does it help you when you don't even get to use it because you get one-shotted by someone who saw you with thermals and then hits you with noskill apfsds helped by them having LRF (in the last years T-10M quietly lost the rangefinder module btw.,...). Your APCBC is harder to use at longer ranges cause of drop (and bounces easier than darts), plus you've got that stupid 15 sec reload time, slow turret, poor gun handling, no gun depression, abysmal mobility for this tier...

 

This tank should really be 7.7 with it's direct US counterpart, M103, and the German tank that it was introduced with as counterpart in same patch, Leopard 1, instead of two whole BR steps above.

 

And since it's 8.3 it faces everything from Type-74G, MTCA, L44 and of course the unwashed, smelly XM-1 horde.

 

 

Even with the apds stock syndrome I find T-55A move viable; if you ignore it's got the worst APFSDS of Tier 6 (that basically acts just like APDS) and should maybe be 8.0.

 

Sad but reassuring to hear that I'm not alone in the T-10M.

 

I've got 31 kills for 31 deaths in it, but only because of some matches where I was able to set up a good campsite and ambush multiple people...which could have been done as or more effectively in other tanks. Most matches I get one kill at best and then die, LOL.

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I don't really know what the best ammo for T-62 is, tbh.  The 'upgraded' one has worse pen against 60 degree angles but better against 30 degree.  When I switched to it to test it, I found I was doing way more damage with it than the stock ammo. Presumably it does more damage against flatter armour.  May well have all been in my head but I've left the unlocked one as my default ammo since.  

 

T-55a is all about the APCBC on a flank.  Side shots are almost all OSK.  The rest of the choices are neither here nor there, IMO.  The APFSDS is pretty poor for damage output (which makes the Object 685's BR all the more galling) and HEATFS comes with the usual issues that it brings.

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6 minutes ago, Matt_82 said:

I don't really know what the best ammo for T-62 is, tbh.  The 'upgraded' one has worse pen against 60 degree angles but better against 30 degree.  When I switched to it to test it, I found I was doing way more damage with it than the stock ammo. Presumably it does more damage against flatter armour.  May well have all been in my head but I've left the unlocked one as my default ammo since.  

 

T-55a is all about the APCBC on a flank.  Side shots are almost all OSK.  The rest of the choices are neither here nor there, IMO.  The APFSDS is pretty poor for damage output (which makes the Object 685's BR all the more galling) and HEATFS comes with the usual issues that it brings.

 

Makes sense. I've been running the upgraded dart with good results and it's not too pricey so...

 

Regarding the T-55A, with the relatively brisk reload (compared to the T-10M) juggling ammo types seems a bit more viable. I'm glad to have the dart regardless, for pixel hunting at longer ranges or hitting moving targets.

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18 hours ago, Matt_82 said:

I don't really know what the best ammo for T-62 is, tbh.  The 'upgraded' one has worse pen against 60 degree angles but better against 30 degree.  When I switched to it to test it, I found I was doing way more damage with it than the stock ammo. Presumably it does more damage against flatter armour.  May well have all been in my head but I've left the unlocked one as my default ammo since.  

 

T-55a is all about the APCBC on a flank.  Side shots are almost all OSK.  The rest of the choices are neither here nor there, IMO.  The APFSDS is pretty poor for damage output (which makes the Object 685's BR all the more galling) and HEATFS comes with the usual issues that it brings.

 

To be honest, 3BM25 is just an APDS with fins, that's it, so it's no surprise that it's the apfsds in game that is the weakest against angles. Even when you look at pen numbers it's same as APDS.

 

And to think 685 was 9.7 at first!!!! With 28k repair bill to go along with it...

 

Even at 9.0 is vastly stupidly overtiered, 3BM25 is something for 8.0 tbqh and 685 for 8.3, especially when you consider that germany has M48 with best 105mm APFSDS at same BR 8.3 and also a casemate with L44s and an MBT with L44 and 10.0 ammo at 9.0 (was 8.7 for years)...

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10 hours ago, jackTIGR said:

 

To be honest, 3BM25 is just an APDS with fins, that's it, so it's no surprise that it's the apfsds in game that is the weakest against angles. Even when you look at pen numbers it's same as APDS.

 

And to think 685 was 9.7 at first!!!! With 28k repair bill to go along with it...

 

Even at 9.0 is vastly stupidly overtiered, 3BM25 is something for 8.0 tbqh and 685 for 8.3, especially when you consider that germany has M48 with best 105mm APFSDS at same BR 8.3 and also a casemate with L44s and an MBT with L44 and 10.0 ammo at 9.0 (was 8.7 for years)...

I would go as far as 8.7, but no further. If they only made APHE stock, it would be a fine tank. But the fact that its only unique and redeeming feature comes at around 350SL per round disappointed me to say the least. 

Not that I have to worry about acquiring the Object 685 for a while, still grinding T-10M after all...

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16 hours ago, GoddePro said:

I would go as far as 8.7, but no further. If they only made APHE stock, it would be a fine tank. But the fact that its only unique and redeeming feature comes at around 350SL per round disappointed me to say the least. 

Not that I have to worry about acquiring the Object 685 for a while, still grinding T-10M after all...

 

Why put it at a BR where there is no lineup at all? At 8.3 685 would be part of a lineup and even with ammo it would be kinda balanced (though I still say our 100mm ammo is 8.0 material).

 

Personally I chafe at the idea of overtiering a vehicle just to appease crying fanboys of other nations that already have vehicles at lower tiers that are better. Especially when the excuse is a round which exact counterpart GER gets STOCK already at BR 5.3 and then at 5.7, 6.3 and 6.7 in the strongest vehicles of BR. Everyone is so damn concentrated on 412D, but they like to ignore or forget that German long 88 stock around is it's exact counterpart with same penetration and same post-pen performance, much lower tiered even.

Edited by jackTIGR
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9 hours ago, jackTIGR said:

 

Why put it at a BR where there is no lineup at all? At 8.3 685 would be part of a lineup and even with ammo it would be kinda balanced (though I still say our 100mm ammo is 8.0 material).

 

Personally I chafe at the idea of overtiering a vehicle just to appease crying fanboys of other nations that already have vehicles at lower tiers that are better. Especially when the excuse is a round which exact counterpart GER gets STOCK already at BR 5.3 and then at 5.7, 6.3 and 6.7 in the strongest vehicles of BR. Everyone is so damn concentrated on 412D, but they like to ignore or forget that German long 88 stock around is it's exact counterpart with same penetration and same post-pen performance, much lower tiered even.

you have to look at a tank in the context of its counterparts

at this br, side armour is practically non-existent. This thing is fast, at 9.0 still at a competitive speed (albeit not 9.7+), and is one of the only APHE carriers at that br. It should get APHE stock, as it is the literal point of the vehicle. My only problem with lowering the br is that there is no point putting it at 8.3, as there are already plenty of better tank at 8.3 that do the job just as well. Putting it at 8.3 would make it irrelevant. The idea of this is as a support tank for your higher br lineups. the thing's not on thunderskill yet, so I can't give you any stats at all on the thing

but I still believe it should go at 8.7-9.0. All it needs are some quick fixes 

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10 hours ago, GoddePro said:

you have to look at a tank in the context of its counterparts

at this br, side armour is practically non-existent. This thing is fast, at 9.0 still at a competitive speed (albeit not 9.7+), and is one of the only APHE carriers at that br. It should get APHE stock, as it is the literal point of the vehicle. My only problem with lowering the br is that there is no point putting it at 8.3, as there are already plenty of better tank at 8.3 that do the job just as well.

 

Personally I think this is the best idea: creating a strong lineup instead of stragglers scattered everywhere around that can't really support each other. Strong lineup is the reason why US is clubbing at top tier and Germany at lower tiers.

 

10 hours ago, GoddePro said:

Putting it at 8.3 would make it irrelevant. The idea of this is as a support tank for your higher br lineups. the thing's not on thunderskill yet, so I can't give you any stats at all on the thing

 

I honestly don't understand this reasoning. There's nothing stopping you from putting it in your higher lineup even if it's 8.3. To me it's senseless putting a vehicle to a BR where it will be sticking out like dog's bollox cause it will be the only one there with no backup lineup and, if you take lower-tiered vehicles with it, it will drag those vehicles up into battles where they can't hope to compete.

 

Ingame, 685 is a gun upgrade of 906, but also reload downgrade (50% longer reload time) and mobility downgrade (no neutral steering and -20kmh reverse vs -70kmh of 906).

 

I just recently had a situation where I survived solely for 906's reload time, if I was in 685 I would've been dead. Even if we completely ignore the fact that the first MBT that appears using this full loadout sits at 8.3 (but the round appears at BR 6.3 and the better German version at 5.3); we cannot escape the fact that it's not a simple clean upgrade of 906 enough to bump it much higher, because it also comes with enough drawbacks that in some way makes it worse than 906 that can justify only a step higher. It also has enough armor to stop being "no armor, best armor" and the ammorack placement is godawful and criminally stupid making it a deathtrap compared to 906. Basically the only advantage it has over 906 is the APFSDS, which at this point is one of the worst APFSDS rounds in game, especially at this BR. There are enough vehicles at this BR and even below where 906's and 685's APHE will struggle frontally or completely fail to do anything (M103, Maus/E100 over 300m, M60A1, M60...). Hell, there is less positive difference between 906 and 685 and they are 1 BR apart; than there is between Tiger H1 and Tiger E and they were at same BR for a long time (though honestly E shouldn't have been that low, but lets thank typical German player quality for that).

 

It's using a round that's a remnant of an era long past that, yes, it's fantastic at side shots, but also forces you into doing something other nations at this tier don't have to anymore, shoot at weakspots. While I do carry APHE in mine I always have APFSDS loaded first because I expect I will meet a tank head-on at game start and for that purpose I rather use a round that I have bigger hope I will be able to pen. And, if I can be so crass, it's only the fault of NATO engineers and military minds for betting everything on shiny new tech and being so quick to discard old stuff that worked that NATO vehicles at this tier are not using APHE anymore, not ours nor 685's so I don't see a point in artificially inflating it's BR to assuage any catholic guilt I'm supposed to be feeling over a single shell in a vehicle that is otherwise worse than it's predecessor.

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